Apple Still Hasn't Fixed Its MacBook Keyboard Problem (wsj.com) 125
Joanna Stern, writing for the Wall Street Journal [the link may be paywalled]: Why is the breaking of my MacBook Air keyboard so insanely maddening? Let's take a trip down Memory Lane.
April 2015: Apple releases the all-new MacBook with a "butterfly" keyboard. In order to achieve extreme thinness, the keys are much flatter than older generations but the butterfly mechanism underneath, for which the keyboard is named, aims to replicate the bounce of a more traditional keyboard.
October 2016: The MacBook Pro arrives with a second-generation butterfly keyboard. A few months later, some begin to report that letters or characters don't appear, that keys get stuck or that letters unexpectedly repeat.
June 2018: Apple launches a keyboard repair program for what the company says is a "small percentage" of MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards impacted.
July 2018: Apple releases a new high-end MacBook Pro with the third-generation of the keyboard that's said to fix the issues.
October 2018: Apple's new MacBook Air also has the third-generation keyboard. I recommend it, and even get one for myself.
Which brings us to the grand year 2019 and my MacBook Air's faulty E and R keys. Others have had problems with Apple's latest laptops, too. A proposed nationwide class-action suit alleges that Apple has been aware of the defective nature of these keyboards since 2015 yet sold affected laptops without disclosing the problem. "We are aware that a small number of users are having issues with their third-generation butterfly keyboard and for that we are sorry," an Apple spokesman said in a statement. "The vast majority of Mac notebook customers are having a positive experience with the new keyboard." If you have a problem, contact Apple customer service, he added. John Gruber, a long time Apple columnist: I consider these keyboards the worst products in Apple history. MacBooks should have the best keyboards in the industry; instead they're the worst. They're doing lasting harm to the reputation of the MacBook brand.
April 2015: Apple releases the all-new MacBook with a "butterfly" keyboard. In order to achieve extreme thinness, the keys are much flatter than older generations but the butterfly mechanism underneath, for which the keyboard is named, aims to replicate the bounce of a more traditional keyboard.
October 2016: The MacBook Pro arrives with a second-generation butterfly keyboard. A few months later, some begin to report that letters or characters don't appear, that keys get stuck or that letters unexpectedly repeat.
June 2018: Apple launches a keyboard repair program for what the company says is a "small percentage" of MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards impacted.
July 2018: Apple releases a new high-end MacBook Pro with the third-generation of the keyboard that's said to fix the issues.
October 2018: Apple's new MacBook Air also has the third-generation keyboard. I recommend it, and even get one for myself.
Which brings us to the grand year 2019 and my MacBook Air's faulty E and R keys. Others have had problems with Apple's latest laptops, too. A proposed nationwide class-action suit alleges that Apple has been aware of the defective nature of these keyboards since 2015 yet sold affected laptops without disclosing the problem. "We are aware that a small number of users are having issues with their third-generation butterfly keyboard and for that we are sorry," an Apple spokesman said in a statement. "The vast majority of Mac notebook customers are having a positive experience with the new keyboard." If you have a problem, contact Apple customer service, he added. John Gruber, a long time Apple columnist: I consider these keyboards the worst products in Apple history. MacBooks should have the best keyboards in the industry; instead they're the worst. They're doing lasting harm to the reputation of the MacBook brand.
This happens (Score:5, Interesting)
when appearance is prioritized over function. When it came out, all the reviewers went into paroxysms of ecstacy about how thin it was. Now we see what happens when it''s not as thick as it needs to be.
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I still like the mechanical key switches. I can understand these thin keys for the laptops, but they also do it for the external keyboards, where we can use a nice heavy mechanical keyboard for, with useful feature like n-key roller and anti-ghosting.
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A keyboard has to be cleanable in some way. Dust goes down not up.
I'm on my 4th butterfly keyboard, apart from a few keys collapsing on my first keyboard necessitating a replacement, I've had no problems so far. Occasionally a key sticks because of dust but so far that problem has always been solvable by going over the keyboard with a vacuum cleaner or a compressed air bottle from the local electronics shop. It also helps not to eat your bagels or other crumb generating foods like a pig and spill the crumbs all over the keyboard into the key spaces. Having said that, eve
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I have a 2012 MBP, and the only issue I've had with the keyboard is that after more than 6 years of continuous use, some of the keys are starting to wear out. And by that I mean certain keys have physically worn down on the surface, exposing an underlying layer of plastic. It's only a cosmetic issue. The keyboard is otherwise entirely functional.
I have no interest in a keyboard with less key travel (I've tried the new ones -- I don't like it), and with well-known problems. When I've had this vintage MBP
It's not that simple (Score:5, Insightful)
when appearance is prioritized over function.
That's not at all the case though.
I really like how the newer keyboard feels. Yes there's absolutely some fun to typing on a big old clacking keyboard with a long draw, but I find that flatter low travel keyboards are quicker to type on.
So the thinness DOES have function. Now it may be the case that you can't have a reliable keyboard that thin, but I think we have yet to prove out that theory since Apple keeps iterating and the keyboard keeps improving... and even though there are a number of people who have seen issues, I know a lot of people with the newer keyboard who have not.
the reviewers went into paroxysms of ecstacy about how thin it was
Really, who? I recall seeing zero reviews praising that aspect of the keyboard - just the overall thinness of the laptop itself.
Re:It's not that simple (Score:4, Informative)
Re: It's not that simple (Score:2)
I like the new keyboard too. Iâ(TM)m on my third retina MacBook Pro (due to work, not the laptops fault) and I really like it. I am not a Vim user so the escape key is not a big deal, although I would remap caps lock to ESC in that case. I do not eat crumbly food over my laptop and I do not bring it to the beach so I have no issues whatsoever with stuck keys. I have had keyboard go bad on me in the past so I can understand the frustration of users that actually have problems but if you insist on using
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You are the first person I've seen praise the feel of that keyboard.
Now you've met two. Mostly I just don't give a toss about 'keyboard feel' and certainly not to the point where I have apoplectic rage fits about it like some people do, but the butterfly keyboard is kind of nice as keyboards go.
Re:It's not that simple (Score:4, Interesting)
- Touch strip is a bad idea. Maybe it helps people who use fancy software but I'm wearing out a bald spot in the case from when I use vi and miss the recessed non-tactile key.
- The key surface is chicklet and not cupped. This leads to lack of feedback when my hands are drifting off the keys. - A keyboard that cannot be cleaned, really? Many people who buy Macbooks have houses slightly more messy than the Apple store. In fact, I find the neatness of the Apple store a bit unnerving.
I've experienced first hand the sound that the keys make. Picture a gooey public theater floor with spilled pop and candy on it over centuries, now press your foot down on that floor and lift it up. That is the sound the keys make. Fortunately, I got a new keyboard on Apple-care but I now have a laptop that I don't really feel like I can take anywhere because if anything else gets in the keys it will be a problem.
Re: It's not that simple (Score:1)
"and the keyboard keeps improving"
No, no it doesn't.
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I recall seeing zero reviews praising that aspect of the keyboard - just the overall thinness of the laptop itself.
Not sure if trolling or just stupid...
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Yours would appear to be an extreme minority opinion. Keyboards have been around for over a century. If a significant number of people really did prefer low-travel keys, they would've been made thinner nearly a century ago when the first electric typewriters were introduced [wikipedia.org]. You represent such a small minority that in all that time, nobody has eve
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Re:This happens (Score:5, Informative)
To boot, the early models were even thinner at the slim end.
2012 MBA: Height: 0.11-0.68 inch (0.3-1.7 cm)
2018 MBA: Height: 0.16–0.61 inch (0.41–1.56 cm)
That they somehow managed to mess up something as testable as a keyboard, is one thing. That they haven't managed to fix it several iterations later, is just sad. I'm sticking with my 2012 model and hoping it never dies.
Re:This happens (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem is if they fix it they will be admitting that it was a cock-up. By quietly adding a fraction of a millimetre every year and some little protective membranes they will eventually make it more or less reliable and still get to claim it was a minor issue.
Fortunately people like iFixIt cut through their bullshit, same as they did with the screen cable flaw.
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To boot, the early models were even thinner at the slim end.
Easy solution. Use a file to get the edge of the laptop to a knife edge. Boom a laptop that is 0.001mm thick on it's "slim end".
Seriously are you in marketing?
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They are testing it. They have millions of people willing to buy their products without ever having seen or felt them (the Apple Watch became the #1 selling smartwatch through pre-sales, before it was even released). If you have a fan base that's that irrationally committed, you don't need to pay for product testing. Just make them test it for you.
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But for most people owning an Apple product its a point of pride, not necessity.
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This is a nice theory, but it doesn't work very well when the problem people are complaining about is a quality issue that doesn't show up until well after purchase.
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You're pressing it wrong (Score:5, Funny)
We all know that Apple never makes mistakes. It must be you.
Re:You're pressing it wrong (Score:5, Funny)
We all know that Apple never makes mistakes. It must be you.
I hear their next keyboard will have only one button ... :-)
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Brilliant!
I'm sure the fanbois will love it.
Re: You're pressing it wrong (Score:1)
Two knobs. Uses zero electricity, always on, and to reset, you just tip upside down and shake.
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I'm waiting for the Macbook Wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I hear their next keyboard will have only one button ... :-)
Yes. After all, it's called a "keyboard", not a "keysboard".
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I prefer Windows' 3-button keyboard:
https://vignette.wikia.nocooki... [nocookie.net]
But hey, Apple is "high quality". (Score:1, Interesting)
I mean I don't mind paying twice as much for three year old technology when it's backed up by the Apple brand. Like hey, it's part of my hipster uniform. That and avacado toast and dorky eyeglasses.
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Hipsters are a marketer’s wet dream! They have proven that they will pay through the nose for “sophisticated”, “artisan”, “craft”. This is not up for debate, just ask the folks at Souja or Stumptown Coffee. Hipsters are probably the easiest people to sell to in American history. This is doubly true if your product photographs well for social media.
Why would they? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I own a 12" MacBook. At first, I liked the feel of the butterfly keyboard, but now it has multiple intermittent and semi-functional keys. Haven't yet found time to bring it in and complain about the sucky keyboard.
Possibly the last Apple product I'll ever buy from them.
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Re:Why would they? (Score:5, Insightful)
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My 2018 MacBook Pro had the keyboard problem and they fixed it for free. In our office three out of four were totally fine.
So you have a 25% failure rate? Amazing.
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They're not making any extra on the repairs. I've heard of people bringing in their laptops multiple times for keyboard problems, especially in the first generation. Because the whole top of the case needs to be replaced, it's, like, a $600 part for Apple every time they do it. There's a very real possibility that the repairs is affecting Apple's bottom line when it comes to this model. On top of that, they'll repair ANY laptop with this keyboard from the first two generations, even if you didn't have Apple
So this is what "news for geeks" has fallen to.. (Score:1, Redundant)
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Re:So this is what "news for geeks" has fallen to. (Score:5, Interesting)
At least it's about something technological. It could be yet another article about which politician farted upwind of an orphanage.
This *is* news for *geeks*. (Score:1)
This is exactly "news" for geeks, as exemplified by the hipster apple fanboi.
Nerds, the pocket protector-sporting kind, not so much.
I'm guessing the current crop of editors are millennials, and entirely unfamiliar with pocket protectors.
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Not true. This article is about Apple still having hardware issues. It's useful information for those that use Apple products.
My Macbook keyboard problem... (Score:2)
...--at least when I was working at home--was easily fixed with a USB-to-PS2 adapter and an IBM Model M keyboard. (Damned Mac keyboards are too small for my hands, anyway. Nothing but red squigglies and command line error messages using those tiny things.)
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When the company issues you a Mac, you use their Mac.
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You spelled Thinkpad wrong.
Slashdot still hasn't fixed its paywall problem (Score:1)
You used to be able to get halfway decent laptops with actually usable keyboards. That appears to've been shoed* away by, well, apple.
We're in a vicious circle of ever worse keyboards because you can't have all three of so stylishly thin you can shave with it, functional nevermind nice to use, and cheap enough for the manufacturer to fit in your overpriced device. You're just typing on it wrong!
* As in shoe event horizon.
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And you can't replace single keys from what I understand (unless that's changed). You can only replace the whole keyboard. However, since the keyboard is riveted to the upper half of the casing, the whole thing needs to be replaced leading to a multi-hundred dollar repair.
The worst laptop keyboard ever made (Score:2)
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Same here. I now refuse to buy Macbooks unless a project specifically requires it for whatever reason.
This new keyboard is not only insultingly poor quality, but it's an ergonomic nightmare too.
USB microphones. (Score:2, Informative)
Apple still hasn't addressed the fact that USB mics crap out when used for any length of time.
They used to be the media creators system, but now low latency audio and video platforms are not labelled "Apple".
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ha ha ha (Score:1)
Just the other day I was wiping the dust off my Commodore 128D keyboard... Still works!
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I sometimes wonder if I'm the outlier, or if people are just really bad at business.
We're definitely the outliers. Most people in the 'mass customer' demographic, (and especially non-techies, it seems) have come to accept and even expect bad, abusive behaviour from the companies whose products they buy. To them that's 'just the way it is'. As a consequence, all of us who reward good behaviour and punish bad by voting with our wallets, represent little more than a rounding error in sales and profit stats.
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When a company goes out of their way to say "we fucked up; we're sorry, and here is how we're going to fix it" they gain so many respect points (personally) that they're almost guaranteed I will make it worth their while in the end.
Me too; however...
I sometimes wonder if I'm the outlier, or if people are just really bad at business.
You are not the outlier, but you are a bit rare, but not an outlier.
The issue is that no company wants to actually pay the penalty for fucking up. Money is king. Nothing matters more than money. They will sing you any song in the world, but they will never, ever, in all of time, let a single penny fall from their clutching hands.
When money is your focus, ideas like "taking responsibility" and "apologizing" all equal to admitting liability which means letting pennies fall from those clutchi
Simila Issus (Score:5, Funny)
Which brings us to the grand year 2019 and my MacBook Air's faulty E and R keys.
I hav noticd simila poblms with my kyboad. It's causing numous os.
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Very good! Where are my mod points when I really need them?
Buy a proper keyboard and shutup (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Buy a proper keyboard and shutup (Score:4, Insightful)
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Hey, they strap keyboards to tablets, why not have notebook cases with a fold-out keyboard?
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Fun fact: I literally had to use duct tape to keep the power cord into my PPC Mini. The first Mini models had a proprietary power cable with no clips, tabs, or even friction to keep the cable in place. Only Apple could possibly fuck up a power cable.
I actually had a bunch of problems with that machine, so it was the last and final Apple product I ever bought.
Apple just wants to be finance company anyway (Score:2)
With the new Apple credit card, you can pay to have your MBP fixed, or buy a new one every six months.
Itâ(TM)s kinda sad. (Score:2)
At least before you got the feeling that you bought a premium product. Now other laptop manufacturers are building solid products and Apple keeps raising the price and lowering the quality.
OS X and macs clearly isnâ(TM)t something they care much about anymore, they just want to milk it for what they can until their reputation of selling overpriced crap.
I tried building a hackintosh but then I realised that what I liked about my mac was that I didnâ(TM)t have to deal with drivers updates, configura
Big touchpad (Score:2)
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Apple haven't produced a good keyboard for ... (Score:1)
... over two decades.
I remember the keyboards that came with the first iMacs, with the fancy coloured plastic.
Just a tiny splash of liquid would render keys permanently inoperable most of the time.
Nothing improved from that time onward. In my hardware graveyard, I have 6 Mac keyboards, suffering from missing keys, keys that don't work and just from good old shit to type on reasons.
In contrast, I have a logitech wireless mac keyboard that's been going strong for 8 years, along with a few mechanical keyboards
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... over two decades.
That's hardly true, unless you're a complete monster to your keyboards. Most people feel that the previous generation of MacBook Pro keyboards were excellent (for a laptop keyboard in particular). And I still have my A1016 Wireless Keyboard [wikipedia.org], which IMO sits right up there with the IBM Model M keyboards in terms of design and response. Those were from 2003, but that was just 16 years ago, so certainly less than "over two decades".
Yaz
I COMPLETELY agree .... Worst keyboard ever made. (Score:1)
I ranted in a crash report today about it too, whether or not anyone reads it or gives a rip is another question.
My Macbook Pro is really a Mac Mini. I nearly never use it without an external keyboard plugged in.
Fire Johnny Ives.... (Score:3)
Yes, this is the reason I am still on a 2013 Mac Book Pro. I mean, I would love to upgrade so I could carry around all the Apple expensive dongles and have to live in the future with only USB-C ports.
Bottom line, Apple will not listen to it's customers and wants thin, unrepairable, expensive still that lasts 2-3 years max.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Enjoy it while you can get it, but eventually the sheeple will figure it out.
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Yes, this is the reason I am still on a 2013 Mac Book Pro.
My last Macbook Pro was a 5.1. I think that was from ... 2010?
I am honestly surprised you stayed with Apple for so long. I loved my 17 inch Powerbook. I liked my 15 inch Macbook Pros. Then they went back to their old proprietary ways and started soldering RAM in and other lock-in style things and I ran. I ran so far away.
Fuck Apple and fuck what they turned OS X into.
Oh. And fuck their phones too. The last one I bought was the 3GS. That was the last great phone that they produced. Antenna issues on the 4 le
Schadenfreude (Score:2)