Class Action Suit Filed Against Apple Over the Keyboards in MacBook Pro and MacBook Laptops (theoutline.com) 219
On Friday, Apple was hit with a class action lawsuit over the butterfly-switch keyboards, found on the current generation MacBook Pro and MacBook lineups, that have plagued its customers since they were released in 2015. The suit, filed in the Northern District Court of California, alleges that Apple "promoted and sold laptops it knew were defective in that they contain a keyboard that is substantially certain to fail prematurely," The Outline reports, and that selling these computers not only directly to its customers but also to third party retailers constitutes a violation of good faith. From the report: The Outline was the first outlet to substantially cover the magnitude of the issue, writing that Apple Geniuses responsible for diagnosing and repairing these Apple computers would benevolently attribute dead keys and double-spacing spacebars to a "piece of dust" stuck under the keyboard. Under Apple's warranty, Geniuses might offer to replace the entire top case of the computer, a process that takes about a week. Out of warranty, it costs about $700 to replace this part on a MacBook Pro. Apple has declined repeatedly to comment on the issue, but directs sufferers to a support page that instructs users how to tilt the computer at an angle, blow canned air under the malfunctioning keys, light candles arranged in the shape of a pentagram, and recite an incantation to Gaia in hopes of fixing their machines. Earlier this month, users kickstarted a petition on Change.org that calls on Apple to recall MacBook Pro units released since late 2016 over the defective keyboard. The petition has garnered about 20,000 signatures. Widely respected iOS developer and Apple commentator Marco Arment tweeted on the news, "We can't know for sure that Apple knew the 2016 keyboards were defective and sold them anyway. But it's hard to see how they couldn't have known. They were released 18 months earlier in the 12" MacBook, and those had the same problems with high failure rates from the start."
Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech support (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech support (Score:5, Insightful)
It's because Apple doesn't know how to test stuff. They do this over and over again, more so than any other 1st tier company.
This kind of flaw would have been discovered during routine testing of the keyboard at Lenovo out Dell. They would have aged it, blasted it with dust, tested it in 100% humidity and -10C, dropped all kinds of stuff on it...
I can only think that Apple is so desperate to keep stuff secret that they have to forgo this. They must have product engineers telling them they need to do it.
And now they have who knows how many defective keyboards, rivetted to the upper part of the case and battery so replacement is insanely expensive and labour intensive.
Re:Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech support (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's not just Apple. All companies are not caring about QA. :(
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It's because Apple doesn't know how to test stuff. They do this over and over again, more so than any other 1st tier company.
This kind of flaw would have been discovered during routine testing of the keyboard at Lenovo out Dell. They would have aged it, blasted it with dust, tested it in 100% humidity and -10C, dropped all kinds of stuff on it...
I can only think that Apple is so desperate to keep stuff secret that they have to forgo this. They must have product engineers telling them they need to do it.
And now they have who knows how many defective keyboards, rivetted to the upper part of the case and battery so replacement is insanely expensive and labour intensive.
No. Apple "Doesn't know how to test stuff." No expertise in simulated real-world testing. Of course not.
Retard. Apple has its own destructive-testing facility:
https://www.theverge.com/2014/... [theverge.com]
The original report I saw also mentioned that they were stress-testing Macbook Pros, etc. in that facility.
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That article shows them testing the iPhone 6 for bending, yet they still had bendgate... They don't know what they are doing.
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That article shows them testing the iPhone 6 for bending, yet they still had bendgate... They don't know what they are doing.
1. You have NO idea how much force was being used in that photo. ANYTHING will bend (or simply break!), given enough force.
2. "Bendgate" was OBVIOUSLY a farce. You'll notice how quickly it dissipated. If it had actually been a design or materials defect, there would have been Class Action Suits, people would STILL be bitching, etc.
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Yes, and I have my own recording studio. That doesn't mean either of us know what the fuck we're doing in those facilities. As an owner of one of the affected laptops (and a slew of other Apple gear dating back to a Mac Classic), I can say I probably know better what I'm doing in the studio than Apple does in their testing facility, today at least. They used to produce quality hardware, but that's become less true each year since Jobs passed.
You would be VERY wrong there.
The only reason I don't actually have a recording studio myself is money. I have some stuff; but certainly not enough to call a "studio" (nevermind having no dedicated space for same!). However, I have logged many hours behind mixing desks, both for live-mixing and multitrack recording, and a fair amount of time with various DAWs. I have been a pro audio enthusiast and expert since about age 16, and play about 4 classes of instruments.
And I have a slew of Apple gear dating back
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When you have to be a pedant to make your argument, you truly don't have much of an argument to make.
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Yes, they're so good at materials and mechanical product testing that they specifically tested the iPhone 6 for bend strength and still had bending issues! Okay, okay, I'll grant you that they probably test their products quite well; that they truly suck at is acting on test failures so they don't happen in the wild.
When you have to be a pedant to make your argument, you truly don't have much of an argument to make.
Yeah, they're SO unresponsive to field-failures that they completely redesigned the keyboard for the 2017 MacBook Pro, and THOSE don't seem to be failing like the 2016 versions.
Everyone make mistakes; it's how they RESPOND to those mistakes that makes the difference between a crappy company like Dell, or a superior company like Apple.
I've been Googling for about a 1/2 hour to see if you can replace a 2016 MBP's keyboard assembly with the improved 2017 version. Powerbook Medic seems to allude that pretty muc
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Unfortunately, the Intarwebs have a way of amplifying negativity...
Yes they do, which is why I assumed this was less of a problem than it actually is and bought one of the affected machines. Live and learn, I guess.
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Unfortunately, the Intarwebs have a way of amplifying negativity...
Yes they do, which is why I assumed this was less of a problem than it actually is and bought one of the affected machines. Live and learn, I guess.
Did you buy a 2016 or 2017 version?
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Late 2016, though the early 2017 models are affected as well. The v2 keyboard is only on the late 2017 models.
Yeah, you probably need to start pestering Apple to swap out your case top Assy. With a "mid-2017" model.
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Oh, and out of warranty it's a $750 repair. What did I say elsewhere in the discussion about replacing a Mercedes with a Fiat because you can do so for less than the cost of
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It's because Apple doesn't know how to test stuff. They do this over and over again, more so than any other 1st tier company.
This kind of flaw would have been discovered during routine testing of the keyboard at Lenovo out Dell. They would have aged it, blasted it with dust, tested it in 100% humidity and -10C, dropped all kinds of stuff on it...
I can only think that Apple is so desperate to keep stuff secret that they have to forgo this. They must have product engineers telling them they need to do it.
Oh yes, they most certainly do. The engineer is told to shut up and do their job.
Apple is a company run by designers, not engineers. The engineers "job" is to make what the designers envisage work even when its completely pants on head retarded. Because good engineers typically have a problem with producing sub standard crap when they can fix it and more so, being able to shut up and follow orders to do so, Apple does not keep many good engineers.
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As if second level at other companies like Dell are that much better than first level. Currently dealing with an entire order of Precision 5520 laptops that won't boot that we received over two months ago, and Dell's support is just useless. I've already personally spent over eighty hours on the phone or on chat with them, and the laptops don't work. Between our IT director yelling at our account exec and our CFO demanding a refund, they've probably spent that much more time between them.
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In most companies, if the first tier of tech support is unable to resolve your issue it gets escalated to a 2nd tier of support personnel. At Apple it gets escalated to black hole, requiring customers to file class actions to get resolution.
Riiiiiiight.
Prove it.
So that's why, when a man reported that iTunes "ate" his song-Library, they ultimately sent not only a special version of iTunes with some additional logging features, but then actually flew TWO engineers from the iTunes DEVELOPMENT TEAM across the country to his HOUSE to see if there was something particular about his computer, network, music files, etc. that was causing the issue.
The debugging session proved unsuccessful as Apple couldn't reproduce the reported issue; but apparently l
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The problem is, you go to Apple support and they will just give you the same keyboard that will have the same issue. So you're only extending the problem until just after you don't have a warranty any more, even if you bought the maximum amount of Applecare.
So do you expect them to give you a custom-designed keyboard, JUST for you?
Idiot.
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woosh, I don't think it's the same AC...
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Nope! A few days after I got my first iPhone, I got drunk and I had to call Apple tech support from a public pay phone so they would remind me how to unlock my iPhone.
That was last century. Things have changed.
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Bullshit. No Apple user would know what a pay phone is, let alone stoop to touching one.
Re: Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech suppor (Score:2)
Whiners should be paid in round hockey puck mice
However the new macs are both awesomely nice and one of the word set of ergonomic choices ever since the puck mouse.
The touchbar is aweful for some people because just the slightest graze acts cares the key. No mechanical press tequired. I'm constantly activating the music pls button or hitting the escape key by accident . Since the keys move around there is no muscle memory and you have to look with your eyes to find the key to want. It sucks.
Astonishingly
Re: Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech suppor (Score:4, Funny)
I can't believe you admit to owning an Apple product from last year! That alone proves you're not really supportive of Apple and just using the failed hardware as an excuse to bash the company like the hater you are...
/sarc (do I really need it? In the day and age of ACs, probably yes...)
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Mine is shit too. Noisy as hell compared to the thicker mushier keys on my old laptop, the arrow up/down keys only register if you press them hard enough (press them softly, and it feels like the key came down all the way but it doesn't register as a key press), the return key stopped working one day (but started working again after some strong wiggling, probably one of those infamous specks of dust), I can't wait for the next key to fail.
And don't get me started on the control strip above the keyboard, whi
Re: Class action = Apple's 2nd tier of tech suppor (Score:5, Insightful)
This. A thousand times, this. The mechanical parts of the keyboard are fine by comparison. No real problems, or at least none worse than my previous machines, which all occasionally had crumb problems (easily solved by massaging the key). But the touchbar? The touch bar needs to die in a fire. It is a perfect example of what SJ meant when he said that his most important job was saying no. Someone else should have said it, but apparently, nobody did, and as a result, we have the single most flaky laptop in the history of computing, constantly doing things that the user did not expect, all because somebody thought, "Let's add touch to the Mac, but let's not do it with an actual touchscreen." F**king wankers.
My previous MacBook Pro, as much as the bad top speaker annoyed me, was a great machine until some dirtbag stole it out of my car in a church parking lot. Now, I have this touchbar travesty, and I'm not amused.
The touchbar is orders of magnitude too sensitive, to the point that it is almost completely and utterly useless. I would estimate that fewer than one percent of detected touchbar touches were intentional. The rest were accidental triggers. It's so bad that I've literally disabled all of the touchbar buttons except for screen brightness, escape, keyboard brightness, and volume, and even with a mostly-empty touchbar, I STILL trigger them accidentally enough to be annoying. On my work machine, I even disabled the volume controls, because I kept accidentally unmuting it in the office while typing, and then wondered why I kept hearing Mail playing sounds every time an email arrived.
My favorite touchbar hassle is its behavior in Finale, where I routinely have to hold down modifier keys while hitting numbers. The probability of accidentally touching the touchbar while doing that approaches 100%, and to make matters worse, there's an undocumented "feature" where if you hold down option and touch the touchbar, it opens System Preferences to the related pane (e.g. the Sound preferences pane if you option-touch the volume buttons). In theory, that sounds like a good idea. In practice, there have been days when I've launched System Preferences accidentally more than twenty times in a single editing session.
The touchbar is, to be frank, so bad that I would gladly PAY Apple to replace it with a normal keyboard. That option was never available in the 15" model, or else I would never have gotten a touchbar to begin with, because frankly, it seemed like a gimmick, and I use the escape key a lot... but before I bought it, I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined that it would be anywhere near as bad as it is. I expected the escape key to be a headache. I didn't expect to have to basically disable the whole d**n touchbar just to get any work done.
So what can be done to fix it? The most guaranteed-reliable fix would be to put touch sensors in the upper row of keys. If you're hovering over the upper row of keys, any touchbar touch is pretty much guaranteed to be an accident. You *might* be able to solve it by using pressure sensing, but the better solution from a touch perspective would be actually ensuring that the touch happens somewhere in the vicinity of the middle of the touch bar vertically, rather than near the bottom edge. If they made it ignore all touches in the bottom half of the strip, that would probably take care of most of the problems most of the time. That might even be possible to do in software.
What I don't understand is how the folks in Apple's upper management could have believed that this worked well enough to ship it. We use MacBook Pros at work, and out of my
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3. You CAN disable the Touchbar in s/w. Have you tried this?
You mean he can disable the ESC and F-keys he just told you he actually needs in software? That seems super helpful!
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3. You CAN disable the Touchbar in s/w. Have you tried this?
You mean he can disable the ESC and F-keys he just told you he actually needs in software? That seems super helpful!
Actually, I kinda doubt it's that big of a problem.
I Googled for about a half hour, and I only turned-up about two reports of this "Hyper-Sensitivity" he spoke of. I don't doubt he experiences it; but if it was THAT much of an issue, Apple would have released a Firmware/Driver update to adjust sensitivity by now. Something as simple as defining the "hot spot" as a much smaller zone, instead of the entire "button" rectangle, and/or requiring a longer press, and/or a "larger" press, immediately come to mind.
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That's a really a**hole thing to say to someone who has a close family member who is suffering from tremors. Shame on you.
Seems is the operative word. The most common situation in which I see this happening is when I have to hit option and a far-off number key (e.g. 7) with the left hand between mous
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That's a really a**hole thing to say to someone who has a close family member who is suffering from tremors. Shame on you.
You are entirely correct. Please accept my sincere apology for my unknowing gaffe and insensitivity.
Seems is the operative word. The most common situation in which I see this happening is when I have to hit option and a far-off number key (e.g. 7) with the left hand between mouse clicks with the right. In that situation, it isn't the finger on the key that brushes the touch bar, but rather my middle finger, which has no safe place to rest. Yes, these sorts of chording behaviors are un-ergonomic as heck, but they make note entry fast as long as you don't have a touchbar popping open System Preferences all the time and taking you completely out of the app.
Perhaps you should adjust your "chording" a bit. I am really not trying to be snarky.
A bit? I bought a laptop, not a desktop. I shouldn't have to use an external keyboard just because some engineer thought that putting a touch-sensitive strip less than an eighth of an inch from active keys was a good idea.
well, you can continue to bitch about the keyboard you can't change, or find a way to deal with it. But I think you are much more interested in the former "solution"
The right fix would have been to put the touchbar above the function key row, rather than replacing it. If almost nobody uses those keys (which is probably the case, with the exception of escape), then they would serve as an adequate buffer zone. But that doesn't fit the narrative of those being useless legacy baggage, so....
Well,that might be one solution, and my suggestion for Apple to "fix it in software", might be another...
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That's a really a**hole thing to say to someone who has a close family member who is suffering from tremors. Shame on you.
You are entirely correct. Please accept my sincere apology for my unknowing gaffe and insensitivity.
No worries. To be fair, I chuckled a bit. :-)
Seems is the operative word. The most common situation in which I see this happening is when I have to hit option and a far-off number key (e.g. 7) with the left hand between mouse clicks with the right. In that situation, it isn't the finger on the key that brushes the touch bar, but rather my middle finger, which has no safe place to rest. Yes, these sorts of chording behaviors are un-ergonomic as heck, but they make note entry fast as long as you don't have a touchbar popping open System Preferences all the time and taking you completely out of the app.
Perhaps you should adjust your "chording" a bit. I am really not trying to be snarky.
Absolutely, though it turns out to be easier said than done. The easier solution, albeit a partial one, was just to make sure the parts of the touchbar that my middle finger gets near when holding option-6 through option-8 with my left hand are blank. That at least makes it tolerable.
A bit? I bought a laptop, not a desktop. I shouldn't have to use an external keyboard just because some engineer thought that putting a touch-sensitive strip less than an eighth of an inch from active keys was a good idea.
well, you can continue to bitch about the keyboard you can't change, or find a way to deal with it. But I think you are much more interested in the former "solution"
That's not a solution. At best it's a workaround, and isn't very practical when I'm not at home. The thing is, a lot of folks at Apple read Slashdot. Complaining about it might
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I've said many times on Slashdot that my keyboard is shit.
Considering you don't buy Apple products: so?
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"Except nobody that actually bought one is complaining."
Hard to complain online when the fucking keyboard doesn't work.
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The entire design is defective. (Score:5, Informative)
Posting as AC because I work as an Apple service tech during the day.
These systems are probably the worst computers Apple has ever produced. The failure rate on them is astoundingly bad- so bad in fact, that the shop I work for is thinking about getting out of the Apple repair business just because we can't adequately support our customers when servicing these machines. We want to, but our hands are completely tied. It's a crap shoot if we can even get new chassis in stock these days (the keyboard is riveted to the lower chassis, which also contains the non-removable battery pack and a few other components). More and more we've been having to send the entire machine into Apple for servicing, at which point they just send you back someone else's refurb (yes, really, this is becoming an extremely common occurrence when servicing any of their portables) and you get to go through the whole process again when that inevitably breaks.
We've been swamped with these machines to the point that it's been clogging up our service centre for other customers with different machines. On any given week, there's as few as 5 machines awaiting parts (or to be shipped to Apple) and as many as 12. It's usually the keyboard that fails- either one or more keys refuse to work properly, or in some cases we've seen the entire board go tits up and totally scramble the input of the keys (ie, C types Z, J becomes backspace, etc). Other failures include bad or cracked touch bars (don't ask me how these get shattered so often, people keep swearing that they opened up their system one day and it was cracked- I'm starting to think the glass is shattering under the thermal stress from being positioned near the hot end of the system) and logic board failures presumably due to overheated components (we can't perform board level service on these machines, but that hasn't stopped me from putting a few systems under a microscope and poking around- there's a few power related ICs that seem to love blowing up and killing the entire system).
All in all, I've never seen anything like it. Our owner is pissed off enough he's thinking about dropping Apple entirely and pushing our customers to convert. We do service PC laptops, but it's rare we see keyboard issues with those that can't be fixed in 15 minutes using a $30 replacement part. With the MBPs, it's a $900 CAD piece, and you can't just buy one from Apple- you have to go through GSX to requisition one and send back the old part after you've removed it (they REALLY don't want spare parts getting out onto the second hand market). But again, that's assuming they're even in stock. The last time I was able to order a lower chassis was three weeks ago, and we've had to ship in about two dozen systems since then (which won't come back for 1-2 weeks).
Anyways, if you want my professional opinion- stay away from these machines. They're defective by design and Apple is clearly buckling under the service load (we're seeing something similar with the iMac Pro as well). I don't know what the fuck they're smoking over there these days, but it's nothing good. A keyboard should not be an integral part of a computer like this. It should be easily removable and serviced without having to scrap half the chassis in the process. Apple fucked up big time here, and it's finally swinging around to bite them in the ass. They won't admit it though, it's more likely you'll see some reference to a vague repair program in a few months promising to fix "affected" machines (hint: they're all affected).
Re: The entire design is defective. (Score:2)
Itâ(TM)s an inevitable result of the cult of thinness. I miss the 2012 MacBooks that were actually designed for professionals.
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I recently bought a 2013 MBP instead of a new one. I refuse to pay 2x more for a laptop that is 2x worse. Better to prop the second hand market than these greedy fucks that work today at Apple.
I have an Asus K501 because I like paying 1/3 as much for a laptop that's 2x as good.
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The Mac is generally much nicer, more robust, has much better keyboard ergonomics
That was sort-of true in 2014; not so much today. I speak from experience, having upgraded from the 2014 MacBook Pro (late 2013, actually; there was no early 2014 model) to a 2016 model.
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Wish I had mod points. this should be up-voted. I have a 2016 mbp, and let me tell you the keyboard does really, really suck.
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Most of Apple's recent products are "defective or crippled by design." iPhones without headphone jacks. MacBooks with only one port, to be used for charging and USB. Soldered-on SSD and RAM, making upgrades and recovery after a motherboard failure difficult. (You can't just pop out the SSD and stick it in a sled.)
If Cook and Ive joined Jobs, Apple's ecosystem would likely improve. Fuck "courage." Build products that are actually functional.
Apple has gone to shit (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Apple has gone to shit (Score:4, Insightful)
No more corporate responsibility (Score:3, Insightful)
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And gone are the days when people would accept them and move on. Nowadays acknowledging a problem is tantamount to admitting there was a problem, thus, a defective product, thus a class action lawsuit. Which you lose because you admitte
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It would've been cheaper for Apple to acknowledge and fix the issue.
I'm pretty sure Apple (and others) have done plenty of risk analysis. From what I've seen, class action lawsuits (which are civil cases and subject to negotiation) usually do end up being the cheaper option.
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Single Point of Failure (Score:2)
'Nuff said.
No secure keyboards either (Score:2)
If your keyboard is broken, you can't go and buy an Apple keyboard if you work in any industry that has mandatory security audits as all their new keyboards are wireless only and won't pass unless you work in a faraday cage.
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Oh bloody hell. I just checked, and you're right. They used to have a perfectly good USB keyboard but they've gotten rid of it. Wireless-only now. :(
Very frustrating. I work in an area with extremely bad RF interference, so bluetooth peripherals are extremely hit or miss depending on where you're sitting. I avoid wireless keyboards now cause it's just not worth the hassle.
Re:Built in keyboard? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got several laptops, I generally don't open the lid though or use the built in keyboard, I hook it up to a tv via HDMI and use a logitech keyboard/mouse with a wireless USB dongle.
Doesn't everyone?
In a word, no. Most people just use a laptop as a laptop, and if they spend that much time at a desk, they have a desktop. I for one got tired of thermal throttling and stopped trying to use a laptop as a desktop. I have a fleet of shitty little netbooks that can be stolen or lost without serious consequence, and a nice desktop box.
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and if they spend that much time at a desk, they have a desktop.
Except the "desktop" Apple makes is a trashcan with all the parts welded to the motherboard. No upgrading, no replacing bad parts. If something goes wrong or breaks, you have a multi-thousand dollar paper weight.
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Except the "desktop" Apple makes is a trashcan with all the parts welded to the motherboard.
It also hasn't been upgraded in nearly 5 years. A MacBook Pro laptop is faster, cheaper, and works with modern 4K monitors.
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and if they spend that much time at a desk, they have a desktop.
Except the "desktop" Apple makes is a trashcan with all the parts welded to the motherboard. No upgrading, no replacing bad parts. If something goes wrong or breaks, you have a multi-thousand dollar paper weight.
It's call "soldering", not welding, retard. And it is ESSENTIAL for all electronic assemblies.
Look into it.
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I don't know what you Mac people do, but in the Windows world, we use something called a docking station. This lets us have the portability of a laptop, such as for meetings, and also the comfort and usability of a desktop, such as dual screens and a real keyboard. My work laptop hardly ever gets opened, except when I take it to meetings.
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I for one got tired of thermal throttling and stopped trying to use a laptop as a desktop. I have a fleet of shitty little netbooks that can be stolen or lost without serious consequence, and a nice desktop box.
I don't know what you Mac people do,
Let me just stop you right there, son. I'm not a Mac person. I mean sure, I own a Mac, but it's the last dome-shaped G4. I was using Macs back when they were new and exciting, so I think I can be forgiven for still owning one. My primary desktop is AMD-based, and it dual-boots Windows 7 and Ubuntu. My secondary desktop is also AMD-based, and boots Mint. All my netbooks run Windows or Linux, and have Atom processors.
but in the Windows world, we use something called a docking station. This lets us have the portability of a laptop, such as for meetings, and also the comfort and usability of a desktop, such as dual screens and a real keyboard.
This doesn't address the thermal throttling issue of trying to do desktop computing with mobi
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I use mine about 60/40 desktop/laptop. I have this 39 inch 4K display [amazon.com] at both home and work, which connects to my MacBook Pro with USB-C. This gives me about 5 square feet of screen real estate, enough to fully display an editor, debugger, browser, and test window, all with no overlap, and 20 inches of vertical text. I use this ergonomic keyboard [amazon.com] for long hours of RSI-free typing. But I also use my laptop as a laptop while commuting, in meetings, and in bed.
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USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is awesome like that. Connect a single cable and you're in business. I love it. But like you, I still like the laptop keyboard to work. I didn't get Apple Care and I'm praying this keyboard will keep working. They're quite fragile :(
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Apple has had much worse problems with laptop keyboards in the past, so this is exaggerated.
My first Apple laptop was a 17" PowerBook in 2003. The G key was obviously broken out of the box. I had to fight to get it replaced and threatening a chargeback on a $3,500 laptop didn't even work. It took about 14 weeks to get it fixed because the part was new and the repair depot didn't have it in stock yet. I bought an iBook to make do while the PowerBook was gone, and I had to replace the keyboard twice. Adm
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Re:Frivolous (Score:4, Informative)
They stop working with the slightest spec of dust. Unfortunately the world is full of dust, skin flakes off constantly...
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I'm guessing you clean your house a lot and you don't have a lot of pets.
Don't listen to this idiot.
He seems utterly incapable of taking even the most minimal care of equipment. At one point, he complained of going through some utterly impossible number of power cables, too.
I would really hate to see what his "work area" looks like, with Taco Bell wrappers and half-eaten french fry containers and whatnot, with a little "clean spot" carved-out for his MacBook Pro (which he doesn't care about, since his employer reportedly bought it FOR him)...
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Iâ(TM)ve got a 2017 âoeKaby Lakeâ MacBook Pro, just closing in on a year and have zero issues so far. With my luck, it will probably start acting up a day after the warranty expires!
Well, zero issues if you don't count not knowing how to type a fucking apostrophe.
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Iâ(TM)ve got a 2017 âoeKaby Lakeâ MacBook Pro, just closing in on a year and have zero issues so far. With my luck, it will probably start acting up a day after the warranty expires!
Well, zero issues if you don't count not knowing how to type a fucking apostrophe.
Nice way to deflect the fact that Apple apparently addressed the issue, at least going forward.
And I bet if you bitch about keyboard issues, you will get a new top-case-section, with a nice, new v2 Keyboard in it.
No need for a stupid Class-Action. All that does is make some Attorneys richer.
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Nice way to deflect the fact that Apple apparently addressed the issue, at least going forward.
What good does that do for those of us who bought affected machines? And how can you still deny the issue while admitting that Apple has "addressed" it?
When will Apple address the issue for those of us who are actually affected by it? No, replacing the keyboard with the same piece of this that failed does not count. If the v2 truly are better, give us those if they're compatible; else, make a compatible v2 as a replacement for failed v1's. That would be addressing it, but Apple won't do that until after t
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Nice way to deflect the fact that Apple apparently addressed the issue, at least going forward.
What good does that do for those of us who bought affected machines? And how can you still deny the issue while admitting that Apple has "addressed" it?
When will Apple address the issue for those of us who are actually affected by it? No, replacing the keyboard with the same piece of this that failed does not count. If the v2 truly are better, give us those if they're compatible; else, make a compatible v2 as a replacement for failed v1's. That would be addressing it, but Apple won't do that until after they lose in court.
Are you SURE that a keyboard that is replaced TODAY won't get the "v2" design? I would be willing to wager a bit that the v2 keyboard is a drop-in replacement for the 2016 "v1" model.
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Would you put a late 2017 MacBook Pro with a v2 in it on the line? I might take that action.
Yeah, I bet you would. But my research seems to be showing that I would probably win...
Re:Frivolous (Score:5, Interesting)
People are whining because their keyboards stop working when they spill coffee on them,.
It is not just coffee. If you eat a cookie, or any crumbly food, over the keyboard, you will get stuck keys. Beach sand is also a problem. You can fix most laptops by turning them over and giving them a good shake. But I have had to remove keys from my MacBook many times to clean out debris.
People may say "Hey, just don't eat cookies while browsing, and don't take your MacBook to the beach", but why should I have to sacrifice my quality of life to accommodate Apple's crappy keyboards?
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why should I have to sacrifice my quality of life to accommodate Apple's crappy keyboards?
For the same reason you accept anything with caveats?
Since when is it incumbent on the world to satisfy all YOUR USE CASES, after having told you, hey, dipshit, dont do that.
Dont like it, dont buy the product.
Also, dont buy the product and brow beat companies into fixing what wasnt broken because you refuse to adhere to the use standard it provided.
AND, dont LIKE IT? DONT buy the product.
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>dont LIKE IT? DONT buy the product.
Yeah. Think about THAT next time, ShanghaiBill.
Think about your onerous "I don't like laptops made with shitty keyboard design" expectation next time you buy a laptop that says Shitty Keyboard on the box.
Oh wait, that made zero sense. Wow, what kind of dumbfuck would think it did?
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You hit the nail on the head there. No company tells you the truth about longevity and there is no way to know until these laptops get old enough to experience issues. Totally unfair to blame the consumer for this.
And doofus, if you actually KNEW anything about product-design, you would understand that, NO amount of "destructive testing" which Apple most assuredly does, prepares the OEM for the "cleverness" of real-world users.
As an alleged software Developer, you should innately UNDERSTAND that.
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Re:Frivolous (Score:4, Funny)
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So I am supposed to only use my laptop in a clean room? We are renovating our hose and removed 1000 square feet of tile floor. I didn't have my laptop where it was dusty but all rooms had some dust. Am I supposed to have a special clean locker for my laptop?
Ah, NOW the truth comes out!
Not too many things more insidious and abrasive than ceramic dust...
Kiss anything with a FAN goodbye, moron!
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Uh no, I'm not going to pay good money to solve problems on an expensive 'pro' machine that shouldn't be there in the first place. If Apple had recommended such a keyboard cover as part of a purchase, as a measure to make their laptops last in normal environments then I could have made an educated decision. But they don't do that, because then it would hurt their laptop sales. Honestly, I didn't even know keyboard covers existed and I think that is ridiculously complicated. I've always had Thinkpads and the keyboards have always been fine.
You weren't putting them in a CONSTRUCTION ZONE, RETARD!
OMG you're SUCH an entitled, incessant WHINER!
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So I'm supposed to remove all latops and electonics from my house because I'm doing renovations? Oh no, nothing ELSE has a problem. My Thinkpads were dine, my audo equipment was fine. It's the Macbook that requires special treatment. Maybe that's why everyone is saying THIS IS A HARDARE DEFECT.
You THINK your Thinkpads are fine; but if they were "on" while that ceramic dust was flying-around, they won't be "fine" for long.
Same thing with your audio gear, if it has fans, and was "on" during the dust-events.
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Think a speck of dust blowing in the wind and landing under a key.
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This. The keyboard comes out with a few screws and a connector or two. Anyone with a bit of mechanical talent can grok how to replace it. No "Genius(tm)" needed.
No need to "replace the top case" or whatever Apple's boneheaded, crappy-ass design requires people to do.
Unfortunately, it is NOT simple on a Unibody MacBook Pro (or any of the various Laptops trying to COPY that design, like my work Samsung RV511) to replace the keyboard. In fact, it is one of the worst packaging decisions Apple has ever made, IMHO.
About 2 weeks after I got it, something really big and heavy accidently got dropped on my 2012 MacBook Pro's keyboard. Instant death for 3 keytops! They keys still work, but it's kind of ugly. Of course, no way would that be covered under ANYONE's warranty (I didn'
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And it keeps working after you drive it down a dusty road.....