Apple Promises Software Update to Address iPhone 15 Overheating Complaints (cnbc.com) 62
An anonymous reader shared this report from CNBC:
Apple said on Saturday that it will issue a software update that would address customer complaints about the latest iPhone 15 models, released just over a week ago, running hot.
Apple said that the new iPhone models were running hot because of a combination of bugs in iOS 17, bugs in apps, and a temporary set-up period... After Apple released the new iPhone 15 models earlier this month, user complaints on Apple's forums, Reddit, and social media suggest that all four models can get hotter than expected during use. CNBC's review of the new iPhone Pros also noted the iPhone 15 Pro Max got hot. "I just got the iPhone 15 Pro today and it's so hot i can't even hold it for very long!" wrote one commenter on Apple's forums.
Apple's new high-end models, the $999 iPhone 15 Pro and $1,199 iPhone 15 Pro Max have a redesigned titanium enclosure with an aluminum frame to make them easier to repair. The problem with the new models overheating was not related to the titanium chassis design, Apple said. Instead, Apple points to bugs with specific apps and a bug in iOS that can be fixed with software updates.
Apple said that the new iPhone models were running hot because of a combination of bugs in iOS 17, bugs in apps, and a temporary set-up period... After Apple released the new iPhone 15 models earlier this month, user complaints on Apple's forums, Reddit, and social media suggest that all four models can get hotter than expected during use. CNBC's review of the new iPhone Pros also noted the iPhone 15 Pro Max got hot. "I just got the iPhone 15 Pro today and it's so hot i can't even hold it for very long!" wrote one commenter on Apple's forums.
Apple's new high-end models, the $999 iPhone 15 Pro and $1,199 iPhone 15 Pro Max have a redesigned titanium enclosure with an aluminum frame to make them easier to repair. The problem with the new models overheating was not related to the titanium chassis design, Apple said. Instead, Apple points to bugs with specific apps and a bug in iOS that can be fixed with software updates.
Trading one problem for another. (Score:5, Funny)
Apple's new high-end models, the $999 iPhone 15 Pro and $1,199 iPhone 15 Pro Max ... overheating ...
First it's money burning a hole in your pocket, then ... :-)
Re: Trading one problem for another. (Score:2)
Fixing an overheating issue with a software update won't fix that your battery is now cooked, lol!
Re: Trading one problem for another. (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, it might. :)
To me "Fixing an overheating issue with a software update" means downclocking.
Which, to be fair, is going to save you battery life.
So, I guess, yeah it's a "fix".
Re: (Score:2)
Not necessarily. There could be any number of software causes. A process could be using far more resources than it should, whether it's CPU, GPU, or SSD.
Re: (Score:3)
The CPU gets 10% slower for every 1C above 40 degrees it gets.
Seriously though, it will probably be time based for the most part. Long running processes will get throttled once their CPU time exceeds a certain execution cap. Apple will justify it by saying that the new CPU is more efficient, so gets the same work done in less time anyway.
Of course all this is coming after the initial reviews and benchmarks. I doubt many will go back and re-run their tests, or do another week or two daily driving the phone t
Re: (Score:2)
It depends on the the specific root cause.. bugs in the system could be CPU run leaks which would cause race conditions (which put stress on the CPU... and in turn causes it to simply run on processes forever which causes it to overheat). And especially since this is tied to the new phone with (the most important part) a NEW OS.. this is mostly a software problem that needs a software fix.
We've seen some of this in the PC realm with some games that are sub-optimized or just had some bugs
Re: (Score:2)
After I had Apple replace the battery in my 10xs, it sometimes overheats to the point of malfunctioning - but only when plugged into my car.
MMMMMh. Overeating apples... (Score:2)
Overeating apples are actually a feature. Look here:
https://youtu.be/kLlaJdIvuhU?s... [youtu.be]
Perfect Timing (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Now that we are heading to winter months, your iPhone can keep you warm at night.
It's approaching summer in the Southern Hemisphere, you insensitive clod!
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Now that we are heading to winter months, your iPhone can keep you warm at night.
Those are rather expensive pocket warmers you got there, bub!
You're holding it wrong. (Score:5, Funny)
You're supposed to hold it with tongs you idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for pointing that out, we love you, Steve Jobs!
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.engadget.com/2010-... [engadget.com]
"Just avoid holding it in that way." - Steve Jobs 2010
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry. Tongs are not supported. But, Apple branded oven mitts are supported. (Make sure you see an authentic Apple logo stitched onto your mitt, or you may have an inauthentic product!) Now selling for just $100.00
Re: (Score:1)
You'll obviously also want to ensure that your Apple iMitts(TM) are protected by encasing them in a hard protective barrier. Don't worry, though, there will be a carve out above the embroidered Apple logo so that you can still signal to all around you that you are a stylish person!
Or maybe ... (Score:3, Insightful)
A skeptical person might say it IS a hardware fault and rather than issue an expensive recall Apple are going to cover it up by throttling the CPU. I seem to recall a similar fix for battery issues.
A skeptic would say that but I won't. Don't want to get sued. I'm sure if it is true it will be verified by experts soon enough.
Re: (Score:3)
Now they'll have the perfect excuse for throttling it --to avert overheating.
Re: (Score:3)
Since you think it’s a hardware fault, what exactly do you think is faulty? A simple benchmark is all it takes to solve this.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently we're back to that if this phone can't run at 100% load without burning up.
"Back to that" implies that it isn't already the status quo. Many laptops/phones will eventually thermally throttle if you run their CPU or GPU at 100%. It's the case for a lot of desktop PCs too when running synthetic benchmarks.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Back in the olden days, some electrical products would specify a duty cycle. Apparently we're back to that if this phone can't run at 100% load without burning up.
Literally no portable piece of advanced electronics can run on 100% load without burning up. All modern processors work to a software defined thermal limit, not to 100% of its processor capability.
Re:Or maybe ... (Score:4, Informative)
Release an overclocked phone that gets 10% better performance than last year. After all the reviews are out and you got all the pre-order/early sales locked in, issue a patch that decreases performance by 10% to prevent it getting uncomfortably hot.
A few diligent reviewers will go back and modify their scores. A handful of owners will return their devices. Most will just take your word for it that it doesn't affect performance.
Re:Or maybe ... (Score:5, Insightful)
A skeptical person might say it IS a hardware fault and rather than issue an expensive recall Apple are going to cover it up by throttling the CPU.
Unlikely. By definition, cell phones can't run full throttle for an unlimited period of time. The case is way too small and they have no fan.
When people are talk about these phones overheating, they're not talking about the hardware failing. They're talking about the case being hot to the touch. That, by definition, means that the hardware is *not* defective, i.e. it is successfully piping the heat to the case where it can dissipate.
There's literally no way this can be a hardware defect, except to the extent that being faster could be considered a hardware "defect".
I seem to recall a similar fix for battery issues.
That fix was throttling the CPU's maximum power consumption so that the battery voltage wouldn't suddenly drop. And yeah, they could theoretically do that to limit the maximum temperature, but they would only do that if either A. they had somehow miscalculated the temperature at which throttling should begin, and as a result, it was causing hardware damage, or B. some busybody European country forced them to do so by law (e.g. the iPod volume limiter nonsense). Otherwise, there's no reason to throttle it just because the outside gets a little hot.
Besides, the problem is almost certainly caused by software bugs, and in particular, a very specific type of bug: background daemon/process crashes that result in redoing work repeatedly. I'll explain.
Approximately every time Apple releases a new OS version these days, a bunch of random background processes start crashing because of bugs that didn't get caught. How often this happens depends on the situation. It could be a daemon that manages the Wi-Fi interface daemon that crashes when an access point provides some specific combination of options fed to the supplicant, or it could be coreaudiod or bluetoothd crashing when certain Bluetooth headphones do some handshake, or... who knows what configuration-specific behavior that causes a high rate of daemon/background process crashes and restarts. But given that it is happening immediately after switching devices, and presumably not happening when people upgrade the iOS version on old devices, my money is on Spotlight importers.
Whenever people migrate to a new phone, Spotlight importers run on all the content that was migrated from the old device. Normally, this takes a few hours, during which the device runs a little hot. But what happens if one of those importers contains a bug — say a bug where some specific EXIF tag combination causes the importer to crap itself — and that bug causes a crash?
Well, if one file triggers the crash, after a few tries, Spotlight stops trying to index it. But if a *bunch* of files trigger crashes, you'd end up with a *lot* of crashes of the importer as it tries several times to import each of those files and crashes over and over and over again. This ends up using multiple CPU cores to handle all those relaunches, and wasting a lot of effort doing that work over and over and over again without actually writing out the results.
Making matters worse is the fact that many of these files haven't been imported in years, and therefore, the crashes caused by importing those files also haven't been reported since the last time those users migrated to new hardware. If there are significant differences in the class of users who choose to migrate, that can be a big impact.
This particular hardware release involved USB-C. There's a group of users who have been hanging onto the iPhone 6s because of the headphone jack, and those folks suddenly have a wired headphone option that is broadly compatible with other devices again, so you'll be seeing a lot more people than usual doing very large updates that jump multiple hardware versions. And other folks have been holding out for USB-C for other reasons
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The hardware flaw is that they miscalculated the thermal performance of the case, it's ability to dissipate heat into the atmosphere. That results in the case getting too warm to use comfortably.
They made the same mistake with the iPhone 4 antenna. Tested it in their expensive RF test chamber... On a plastic pedestal that didn't match the way people hold the phone. Here they likely didn't properly test for things like being in the hand or next to the body in a pocket, in a case, i.e. reduced ability to shed
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Is it similarly a hardware flaw that the bottom of my laptop and the air blowing out of its exhaust vent are hot, or is that the cooling system working as designed? I argue it's only a hardware flaw if the SoC starts to thermally throttle under unacceptably light loads.
Re:Or maybe ... (Score:4, Informative)
Products need to be designed for how users will use them. For laptops that means on your lap or on a desk. For phones that means in your hand.
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Products need to be designed for how users will use them. For laptops that means on your lap or on a desk. For phones that means in your hand.
You're holding it wrong. :-D
But seriously, I'm not sure where you got the number 45C (113 deg. F). That's almost certainly wrong.
When an iPhone's external case temperature hits 45C, the phone shuts down completely and tells you to immediately take the phone to a safe place with air conditioning to avoid permanent battery damage. As far as I can tell, thermal shutdowns are *not* what people are complaining about. They're complaining about the case being hot.
Every iPhone ever built can get hot. Here are a
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, and one more thing.
Products need to be designed for how users will use them. ... For phones that means in your hand.
Actually, they *are* designed for how users will use them. What you're describing is not how most users actually use them.
Approximately 80% of iPhone users keep their phones in a protective case at all times. The overwhelming majority of iPhone users don't care even slightly about how hot a phone's back cover gets during heavy workloads, because there's always an eighth of an inch of plastic between them and the actual phone, which slows down the transmission of heat enormously and
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The hardware flaw is that they miscalculated the thermal performance of the case, it's ability to dissipate heat into the atmosphere. That results in the case getting too warm to use comfortably.
I'd argue that if true, that's a software bug, by definition. After all, the CPU speed stepping is all done in software, and the maximum thermal output of any CPU will always exceed the dissipation of any case. So by "miscalculated", you really mean that they throttled the CPU later than they should or less aggressively than they should, or both. And that's a software bug.
Besides, what you're claiming is completely implausible. Unless the specifications are wrong, the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro both use Goril
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
A skeptical person might say it IS a hardware fault and rather than issue an expensive recall Apple are going to cover it up by throttling the CPU.
No. Separating hardware and software is not possible in the days of modern electronics. If it weren't for software based throttling controls virtually every laptop on the market would catch fire, likewise for phones, definitely for any device used outside of a normal operating environment (how long does your phone last sitting in the sun with Google maps running?).
Modern devices are thermally limited and software / firmware depending on your definition determines the performance profile to stay within those
obscuring the problem (Score:3)
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Not really, the iPhone would be the size of a brick if it were expected to run at constant max CPU .. some laptops can't even do that for extended periods .. there has to be a software throttle. It's built that way because most people/apps only need the CPU at max for a short bursts. Of course if the throttle has to kick in super early that's a problem.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm pretty sure nearly all laptops and desktops can't run at max CPU for extended periods without encountering thermal throttling.
Re: obscuring the problem (Score:2)
That depends on how you define maximum. Current desktop CPUs will self overclock a subset of cores while the others are idle for single thread performance. But putting that aside it's normal to be able to run all cores at the rating of the CPU indefinitely... in a desktop.
So, slowing the phone down? (Score:3)
How else could they magically cool down the phone with just software?
Re:So, slowing the phone down? (Score:4, Insightful)
Loops in software for one. If a loop only needs to run, say 15 times per second, that's much better than continuously which is hard on the CPU and aids in overheating. Just a few unmetered loops can really task a CPU.
Re: (Score:1)
for (i = 0; ; i++){ // wait 15s
if ( (i % (INT_MAX/2) ) != 0)
continue;
do_housekeeping();
i = 0;
}
How does that help?
Re: (Score:2)
Not necessarily. Thermal management is entirely software based these days. Playing devils advocate it could very well be nothing more than a bug that is chewing up CPU time, or a bug that is preventing a low CPU state, or a bug that sets an incorrect current limit on a CPU.
You don't own a laptop do you. You should run intel's management software on one at some point, you'll see many options that can impact therms and power consumption without impacting performance (though indirectly impacting performance of
BS (Score:3)
"Apple's new high-end models, the $999 iPhone 15 Pro and $1,199 iPhone 15 Pro Max have a redesigned titanium enclosure with an aluminum frame to make them easier to repair." - make them easier to repair? - who approved this BS to be published?
Re:BS (Score:4, Informative)
Physically the 15 isn’t bad to repair but it lost points for having DRM locked parts, like the camera for example. https://www.ifixit.com/News/82... [ifixit.com]
Just checking in... (Score:1)
N3B process kinda sucks (Score:2)
Apple was on the hook to use N3B for A17 and here we are. In order to hit desired performance targets, they had to push it outside of an acceptable power envelope, and now that they've got launch benchmarks for it in the public they can slow it down a bit and reign in the heat. Only a few parties will think to rebenchmark A17 with the new microcode.
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Posting to reverse accidental moderation - please ignore.
You aren't reversing anything by posting AC.
Teething problems in mature products (Score:3)
Bear in mind that this isn't a first-generation product. iOS and its ecosystem are very mature, and Apple certainly knew this was a problem before launch.
This is just the same nonsense as always. Rush to market, skimp on QC, and gimp the product after purchase to "fix" hardware issues.
Doesn't matter (Score:2)
Software bugs or not, hardware defects or not - it's still bad hardware design. It may look pretty to the idiots, but the whole internal design is absolute garbage.
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Care to elaborate? One of the new "features" of the iPhone 15 Pro is that it's supposedly easier to repair (especially back-glass replacements).
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Easy to repair means nothing other than it's easy to repair, but that has no bearing on how often it needs repair or the quality of the components. The layout of the internals and the quality of the components have been mediocre at best and straight up garbage at the worst. Apple engineers are not smart or good at their jobs. They've had exactly two good engineers since 1976, and both of them choose to leave Apple - Woz and Ive.
That shiny new toy...it is but a toy... (Score:2)
In other news: Hahahahahaaaahahaahahaha!
Probably even better for posing... (Score:2)
If somebody has one of these technological failures, you _know_ they paid a lot of money form a broken device that looks good. For some people that will be worth even more than a good design, because with that you would get value for money. This thing is the equivalent of a heavy gold-chain or big diamond ring. Both would decrease in perceived value if they had any actual real-world use for which owning them would make sense.
This thing is a blatant statement of "I have money but no sense!". Some people love
I always blame the software too (Score:2)
Quoting one forum quote? (Score:2)
"I just got the iPhone 15 Pro today and it's so hot i can't even hold it for very long!" wrote one commenter on Apple's forums.
So what? Quoting one dingus on a forum is just not useful. It's certainly not newsworthy. Pick a forum and I'll go on and post my own "experience", and it'll confirm your narrative of choice. I'm not saying there isn't a problem. Clearly there is. But forums are a cesspool of bad information - don't quote from them. You already have the company statement in hand - that should be en
my new Apple product (Score:2)