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Apple

Elon Musk Backs Epic in Fight Against Apple Over App Store Fees (twitter.com) 80

Epic, which sued Apple last year and has expressed concerns about the exorbitant fees the iPhone-maker charges on App Store (30% on each transaction on year 1 for apps that are not games and 15% on year 2 and beyond), has found a new backer in the court of public opinion: Elon Musk. In a tweet Friday, Musk likened Apple's App Store charges to "a de facto global tax on the Internet." He added, "Epic is right."

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney added today: The Apple Tax is far more pernicious than many realize. "It only applies to digital goods accessible on iOS," they say -- but in the future all physical goods will have a digital presence, and Apple will tax and gatekeep world commerce. Apple must be stopped.
Friday's remarks follows Musk sniping at Apple during an earnings call earlier this week. From that story: Apple's walled garden is facing scrutiny from lawmakers and other companies, including in an antitrust trial that took place earlier this year after it was sued by Epic Games over App Store fees and policies. "I think we do want to emphasize that our goal is to support the advent of sustainable energy," Musk said in response to a question about letting competitors use its charger network. "It is not to create a walled garden and use that to bludgeon our competitors which is used by some companies." Musk then faked a cough and said, "Apple."
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Elon Musk Backs Epic in Fight Against Apple Over App Store Fees

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  • Why does he continue to stick his nose into things that don't concern him? Did you noticed how crypto prices jumped all over when he posted on Twitter about it?
    • The whole point of Twitter is to stick your nose where it doesn't belong and to give opinions that no one asked for.

      -Working as designed.
    • Those fees apply to in-app purchases as well. Tesla sells a $10,000 FSD upgrade though their app, as well as other upgrades. To open the Tesla Supercharging network to other users, they will be using the app to pay.

      The obvious solution is to give android users a 30% discount.

    • Because Musk is a narcist and attention whore.

      Look at how he lied about creating PayPal when it was Confinity a year earlier.
      Debunking : Elon Musk Part 1 [youtu.be]

      === PayPal Timeline ===
      Dec. 1998 Confinity was started by Peter Thiel, Max Levchin, and Luke Nosek. Peter Theil becomes CEO.
      Jan. 1999 Musk starts X.com
      July 1999 Confinity announces PayPal
      Sept. 1999 Confinity ships PayPal. Offers $10 deposit for new users. X.Com copies the idea of gifting $20 to new users.
      Mar. 2000 Confinity and X.com merge. New company'

    • by jythie ( 914043 )
      Because he is a lifestyle brand who maintains relevance by working out what his followers are passionate about and speaking on that. His base dislikes Apple already, so speaking out against them specifically gets him social credit and praise.
  • Fuck Elon (Score:5, Insightful)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Friday July 30, 2021 @12:16PM (#61638699)

    Why do we have to hear news about Elon's bullshit? Elon does not have a dog in this fight, he opinion is not important here. Elon is clearly in it for himself, in Elon's mind its either him or Apple that will get your dollars and Elon wants those dollars as much as Apple. There is no gift here, its not about you saving money its about who profits from you. Of course Elon wants the profits for himself. Fuck that guy.

    • by jythie ( 914043 )
      Because Musk gets attention and clicks? Just the other day I saw a piece with a big headline about how "Elon Musk is taking humanity to Europa!" and the comments were filled with people praising Musk's vision for being willing to explore other worlds and expand our knowledge.. even though the reality behind the news was that NASA had awarded SpaceX the launch contract. Yellow media is geared toward maximizing what gets people to look at things, and attaching it to high profile and dramatic person's gets
    • Elon is clearly in it for himself, in Elon's mind its either him or Apple that will get your dollars and Elon wants those dollars as much as Apple.

      Congratulations; you've just discovered the benefits of competition!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Tesla cars are locked down hard. If you try to fix one they remotely disable rapid charging capability. They have their own "app store" for the car, and it's a walled garden that's even more restrictive than Apple's.

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by Solandri ( 704621 )
      Famous actor gives an opinion outside his field of expertise (nuclear power, vaccines, "I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV" commercial).
      People: I believe the celerity because I like him/her!

      Famous tech guru gives an opinion outside his field of expertise.
      People: This guy needs to shut up. His opinion doesn't matter!

      I see the blatant double-standard in high school where the opinions of popular kids mattered, while those of nerds didn't, is alive and well in the real world.
      • Nice strawman.

        Plenty of people tell celebrities that express opinions outside their field of expertise to STFU as well. Just starting with the fact any time a celebrity expresses a political opinion, a gazillion people will get all butt hurt that they dare to interfere in politics.

  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday July 30, 2021 @12:19PM (#61638725)

    For his companies actually hire a PR department so we and the press can get a timely consistent straight answer, for any press release questions, especially if the answer requires more detail than what you can put in a Tweet.

    Fine he has a side against Wall Gardens, as he seem to be aligned with Epics point of view. However one of Tesla's KEY (I so intended that pun) features is how ones Cell phone quite often the iPhone is the key to their cars. It may not necessarily be useful for Tesla to seem like they are taking an active stance on Apple Legal battle.

    While Apple has a good history of being encapsulated with dealing with competing self interests. Who is to say, some Middle Manager on the Apple App store, decides to force the uninstall of the Tesla App from its phones, locking people out of their cars.
    Sure you can argue that this is the Flaw in Apple Walled Garden, or a Flaw with Tesla over reliance of technology. But sometime it isn't worth it to get you ding in, and just others fight it out.

    • But Twitter is where he shares really interesting SpaceX stuff, like this photo [twitter.com]. Those are workers, wooden scaffolding, and painting ladders inside the Liquid Oxygen tank for the Starship first stage ("Superheavy"), working on the propellant plumbing. Direct full rez link. [twimg.com]
      • Scary how little thought went into designing for manufacture. You'd think they'd take a tiny bit of time and purpose design the scaffolding and affixed ladders.

        • It's a tech demo, it's not finalized.
          • Which means the people working in it are likely that much more valuable.

            No fucking way working like that is a profitable risk to take compared to spending a little more designing proper scaffolding, with non overlapping planks, with toe boards, with secured ladders with proper step off.

  • Terrifying (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThosLives ( 686517 ) on Friday July 30, 2021 @12:26PM (#61638761) Journal

    The real terrifying statement is that one from the Epic guy about "in the future all physical goods will have a digital presence."

    Please, no.

    On the flip side, maybe some of us can take advantage of the demand for "disconnected goods" that will inevitably arise in that kind of world.

  • by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Friday July 30, 2021 @12:28PM (#61638777) Homepage

    Musk has really changed the world when it comes to cars and space travel. He's proven the naysayers wrong in both areas and I would accept that he is an expert in them. But getting into a bun fight with Apple over app store fees doesn't do anything to a) help change the situation (I can see Cook becoming more entrenched in the issue) and b) help his standing overall.

    Maybe there are some gamers out there who are pumping their fists thinking that Musk is fighting the good fight but for the rest of us...

    Musk is just trying to get/keep his name in the news and meh.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Musk has really changed the world when it comes to cars and space travel. He's proven the naysayers wrong in both areas and I would accept that he is an expert in them. But getting into a bun fight with Apple over app store fees doesn't do anything to a) help change the situation (I can see Cook becoming more entrenched in the issue) and b) help his standing overall.

      Maybe there are some gamers out there who are pumping their fists thinking that Musk is fighting the good fight but for the rest of us...

      Musk is just trying to get/keep his name in the news and meh.

      From the story, it just sounds like he mentioned Apple in a tongue-in-cheek way when he was talking about his electric charger network.

      It doesn't seem like he was seeking attention for some off-hand comment, some in the media are just taking the comment and writing whole stories about it.

      If anything, the tech press hanging breathlessly on every word uttered by Elon Musk ultimately has more to do with them and their behavior than it does with him.

  • What if the most important apps iphone users use were suddenly unavailable. I'm thinking facebook, instagram, twitter, tik tok, tinder, bumble (and the rest of the dating apps).

    Would Apple cave?
    Would these companies cave?
    Would Apple sue that those companies are colluding?


    I hope we find out someday. I need a good laugh at the expense of billionaires fighting.
    • What would happen? We would all be much better off.
      Do you think that soul-sucking garbage is essential?

    • If a company wants an app on iOS they have to abide by Apple's terms. Epic agreed to those terms for many years then decided to change their minds. Should companies leave iOS, that is their right. What they do not have a right to do is dictate to Apple terms of the iOS store. In this case Epic does not want to follow Apple's terms on iOS while dictating their own terms on their Epic store and Epic's terms have meant that certain games are not allowed on stores other than Epic.
  • You know, back when PayPal made itself an online commerce middleman.
  • Seriously. Does anyone know why Musk has this huge grudge against Apple? Why he's always trying to challenge Tim Cook to a dick measuring contest? Apple isn't even technically a competitor to Tesla (yet?) but he seems to go out of his way to talk shit about Apple at every opportunity. This seems very personal for Musk and it makes me curious who pissed in his cheerios.

  • Those that bitch and moan about Apple getting 30% for hosting, providing tools, a storefront,
    and frictionless transactions do not seem to have any problem spending hundreds on gaming assets.

    All that money for some low resolution bitmaps, some simple geometry, and animation scripts. Dumb.
    In-app spending with Epic and siding with whoever is promoting this just makes you an all day sucker.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • or the in-car Tesla app store

    • Consoles are a healthier market and not part of an interconnected web of hardware and services slowly expanding to all consumer electronics, unlike iOS/MacOS and Android/ChromeOS. Android already allows sideloading and user certificates (though very user unfriendly for the moment) and have already committed to streamlining support for third party app stores on Android 12 (mostly to make Apple look bad of course, which Apple does). Valve has a ton of competition.

      Apple is busy forming the most all encompassin

  • The fact that Elon supports Epic reveals that Tesla will soon open up Tesla cars to third-party apps. We shall see what % Elon will tax.

    Present day cars are constrained by software from the car manufacturers, just like "smart phones" of 2007. Subsequently third party apps were permitted to be installed on these "phones" which greatly expanded the utility of these devices. When Tesla opens up their "smart cars" to third party apps, as the phone manufacturer have done, diverse and rich library of automotive

  • Elon’s Tesla Supercharging network taught how sandboxing works, network gaming effects and user access rent as systemic. On Epic’s lawsuit what Apple’s AppStore amounts to - see:

    https://shorttakes.substack.co... [substack.com]

    There is legitimate access fee. And there is cashflow that surmounts access into systemic rent. Monopoly does not guarantee rent that captures the user, developer, content, context, infrastructure and the industry.

    Elon reduces Apple AppStore charges down to their ultimate affect th

  • by farble1670 ( 803356 ) on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:27PM (#61639875)

    Musk likened Apple's App Store charges to "a de facto global tax on the Internet."

    Sorry, but he's not smart. There are far more, cheaper, and easier ways to access the internet than through an Apple product. That, and apps != the internet. Musk is a charismatic figurehead. He remind me of Trump. Loud, says dumb things occasionally, and is buoyed by his fanboy base. His expertise stop at regurgitating sci-fi themes and giving sexy names to technology invented decades ago.

    Then there's this:
    https://cleantechnica.com/2020... [cleantechnica.com]

    Last year...Tesla CEO Elon Musk and CFO Zachary Kirkhorn opened up about the possibility of monetizing some of the lower hanging fruit in the software world via an app store, “or whatever.”

  • Elon would probably badmouth Apple if they cured cancer and solve global warming. Apple is looking at entering the self-driving car market and that has Elon running scared.

  • Apple could offer 2000 dollar a year developer subscriptions. That should cover their cost of providing developer tools , sdks and tutorials. Anyone with a developer liense than should be able to sell on Apple Appstore for a 5% fee which should cover the cost of hosting, vetting the apps and marketing. Instead Apple gives 100 dollar developer subscriptions and takes 30% of the total revenue. This means they take a larger portion of the upside but also let many people who cannot afford a 2000 dollar develop
  • So can I take advantage of the Tesla supercharger network to replenish my Chevy Bolt, or is Musk a bloviating hypocrite?

    Never mind. I already know the answer.

  • You want to change the world with electric cars? You're the hero.
    You want to take us to Mars? You're my idol.
    You want to build flamethrower toys? Errr okay.
    You want to make tunnels in Las Vegas? Umm sure, but... I thought you were changing the world...
    You want to promote bitcoin? Go piss off. We don't need that kind of bullshit.
    You want to promote another rich arsehole who throws a temper tantrum that they are entitled to something someone else has built, simply because they attempted to build it themselves

  • I'm really late to this story so this comment will probably not be picked up, but how is what Tesla does any different than Apple? Tesla does not allow any outside developers to produce software. Only Tesla can do that. Tesla charges exorbitant fees to have said software uploaded to your car to enable features.

    I realize there is a difference between developing for a phone and for a car, but in principle both companies are doing the same thing: limiting who can produce software and extracting a hefty fee

Ummm, well, OK. The network's the network, the computer's the computer. Sorry for the confusion. -- Sun Microsystems

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