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Apple

Elon Musk Sniped at Apple Twice on Earnings Call (cnbc.com) 51

Posted by msmash from the banter-continues dept.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk sniped at Silicon Valley neighbor Apple twice during a conference call to discuss Tesla earnings on Monday. From a report: Although the companies don't compete directly today, Apple is reportedly building an electric self-driving vehicle under a project code-named Titan, and has attracted a number of engineers and executives away from Tesla. When asked about Tesla's supply chain, Musk said that there's a misperception that Tesla uses a lot of cobalt, a key material in the production of lithium-ion cells used in both smartphones and electric cars. "Apple uses I think almost 100% cobalt in their batteries and cell phones and laptops, but Tesla uses no cobalt in the iron-phosphate packs, and almost none in the nickel-based chemistries," Musk said. "On a weighted-average basis we might use 2% cobalt compared to say, Apple's 100% cobalt. Anyway, so it's just really not a factor."

[...] Later in the call, Musk made a crack about Apple's so-called "walled garden," which is named because Apple strictly controls what software can be installed on the iPhone through its App Store. Apple's walled garden is facing scrutiny from lawmakers and other companies, including in an antitrust trial that took place earlier this year after it was sued by Epic Games over App Store fees and policies. "I think we do want to emphasize that our goal is to support the advent of sustainable energy," Musk said in response to a question about letting competitors use its charger network. "It is not to create a walled garden and use that to bludgeon our competitors which is used by some companies." Musk then faked a cough and said, "Apple."
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Elon Musk Sniped at Apple Twice on Earnings Call More

Elon Musk Sniped at Apple Twice on Earnings Call

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    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's hard to imagine a worse HMI than the Tesla yoke and touchscreen combo, but if anyone can build one it's Apple.

  • I'm going to go out on a limb here... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by niftydude ( 1745144 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:56PM (#61627347)
    and say, No Elon, there is no way Apple uses 100% cobalt in its batteries.

    Quite strange that the CEO of a company that manufactures batteries doesn't understand battery chemistry well enough to know why this wouldn't be the case.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I think Musk meant almost 100% of lithium batteries used by Apple contain cobalt, not Apple's batteries are made of 100% cobalt (which would be silly.)

    • And there's absolutely no way that a person with a reputation for being a smart ass was being a smart ass, now is there?

    • He knows what he's doing. Saying stupid things and picking stupid fights keeps your name on the front page.

      Nuking Mars, anyone?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by troff ( 529250 )

      There are two possibilities. 1) he knows perfectly well, he's just relying on others to buy into his crap to have them help attack his new enemies; 2) just because you're a CEO it doesn't mean you know how your technology works.
      I mean, this IS Elon Musk we're talking about, who's barely a fraction of the technological genius the idiot sheep of the world have built him up to be.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by quenda ( 644621 )

      and say, No Elon, there is no way Apple uses 100% cobalt in its batteries.

      I think he is saying they use 100% Lithium cobalt oxide [wikipedia.org] in the battery cathodes, rather than cobalt-free alternatives. Is that true?

      Quite strange that the CEO of a company that manufactures batteries doesn't understand battery chemistry well enough to know why this wouldn't be the case.

      That would be strange, and should be as obviously false as the naive interpretation that a battery would be a lump of cobalt metal. Don't be ridiculous.
      Musk is an engineer who understands the technology better than almost any CEO these days. After his physics degree, he was headed for a PhD in materials science, before switching to Silicon Valley. So the interest is there!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quenda ( 644621 )

        Of course it is stupid to compare phones to cars.
        Many phones use lithium-polymer batteries, with a 100% LiCoO2 positive electrode.
        No cars use that. They have a combination of Cobalt and Manganese, I believe.

        Note that Tesla is unique among cars in using cylindrical cells instead of pouch type, in order to save cost.
        The advances announced by Tesla are incremental, and aimed at over-coming the past disadvantage of cylindrical cells (higher resistance) while reducing manufacturing costs. That's what we want, a

        • The "problem" as Musk sees it is that there's a widespread belief that Tesla uses the same batteries as cellphones, and thus enormous amounts of Cobalt mined by children utilizing extremely environmentally unfriendly methods in the Kongo. This is used as an argument to claim EVs are evil.

          This misbelief might have some origin in Tesla using off the shelf 18650 cells, and the story of using "laptop batteries" gets repeated slot. Tesla has been working hard on bringing down the cobalt contents in their Lithium

  • Musk is a fucking tool and one of the biggest reasons I'd never even consider buying a Tesla. The Tesla board should have given him the heave ho ages ago, like when he brought the attention of the SEC down on the company, or his covid stunts. He gets credit for making EVs a thing to most people, but that's basically in spite of his seeming best efforts to act like a complete buffoon and make the idea seem stupid by association.

    It's like the guy who founded FedEx and sends a copy of a college paper about the

    • Luckily, Elon failed at putting a transmission in his cars...

      • EV's don't need a transmission. The whole reason for a transmission in ICE cars is to keep the ICE within its power band sweet spot and to keep the engine from stalling out at stops and start. Electric motors need no such thing.

  • So when does the Telsa open app ecosysrtem (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Glasswire ( 302197 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @06:15PM (#61627463) Homepage

    happen?

    • you can't load any app you want into into a Tesla?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        once you can load Mariocart, I think my daughter's will buy one . . .

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Who cares about open apps, what about Tesla parts being made available? If you want to get a Tesla fixed, you must go to Tesla as no one else can get the parts.

      So right now, Tesla isn't any better than Apple. Both don't make repair parts available and lock the parts to the device or vehicle.

      And since Apple will be forced to open up by the FTC, Tesla might end up being more closed than Apple!

  • Who cares, at the end of the day? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @06:35PM (#61627525) Journal

    Tech billionaires gonna bash each other. It's what they do.

    Like that noise Bezos made about Branson's first "space flight" not really counting because he didn't go high up enough in the upper atmosphere to cross the zone that "most" astronomers considered outer space. Well, now - it seems Bezos didn't earn the astronaut wings he was so sure he'd get for going higher up than Branson did, because they claim you can only earn those for actually sitting at the cockpit controls and piloting the craft.

    Both Apple and Tesla have a lot in common. Tesla sells its vehicles using a business model an awful lot like Apple's, really. Both run their own stores and don't rely on a "dealer network", for example. A Tesla is very much a cellular network connected Linux computer on wheels, and receives regular software updates just like iOS or Mac OS does. Both brands are fairly "aspirational" and "trendy" too. With Apple expressing interest in getting into the self-driving vehicle business and even poaching talent from Tesla, it's little surprise Tesla isn't exactly thrilled about any of that and thinks it's worthwhile to take some jabs at them.

    I will say though, it seems ironic Musk is choosing Apple's "walled garden" model as something to criticize, when Tesla's closed, locked-down OS in their vehicles is no better. Want to use Android Auto or Apple CarPlay with it? Sorry... Musk and co. decided they knew what was best for Tesla owners and lock you into their idea of what the infotainment experience should be.

    • What Musk did on the earnings call is similar to what Cook does at the Apple events. He wasn’t really speaking to the average person on the street; he was speaking to the fawning fanboys.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jeremyp ( 130771 )

      You can buy Apple products (the physical items that is) at places other than Apple's own stores. In that sense, they are more open than Tesla.

  • I feel stupid for outgrowing my 5 year old self.

  • Then why doesn't he have a problem with cobalt nukes? If cobalt is good enough for a doomsday weapon, why not batteries?

  • Having Aspergers is an excuse to make mistakes, yes. But not an excuse to ignore working on becoming a better person.
  • It's much better than the open-access public park, chock full of violent homeless junkies living in tents, just waiting for the opportunity to commit a crime against you. Which is pretty much what the Google Play store looks like to me. https://threatpost.com/google-... [threatpost.com]

  • "It is not to create a walled garden and use that to bludgeon our competitors which is used by some companies."

    Then, um, why?

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