Apple Will Invest $3.6 Billion In Kia Motors To Build An Apple Car, Claims Report (mashable.com) 145
Apple is investing 4 trillion won ($3.6 billion) in Kia Motors in a collaboration to build an electric car. From a report: This is according to a report by Korean outlet DongA Ilbo, which claims a deal may get inked on February 17. According to the report, the plan is to launch the Apple Car in 2024, with an initial target of producing 100,000 cars per year. This can later be expanded to 400,000 units, the report claims. Apple's funds will be used to build exclusive facilities for the production and development of Apple Car.
The report follows a January report that Apple is talking to Hyundai about Apple Car production, which Hyundai has readily confirmed. The company noted, however, that the discussion was "at its early stage" and that "nothing has been decided." However, Hyundai later revised the statement, only confirming that it's been talking to partners about building an autonomous electric vehicle.
The report follows a January report that Apple is talking to Hyundai about Apple Car production, which Hyundai has readily confirmed. The company noted, however, that the discussion was "at its early stage" and that "nothing has been decided." However, Hyundai later revised the statement, only confirming that it's been talking to partners about building an autonomous electric vehicle.
Fantastic (Score:5, Insightful)
We are all keenly aware of how protective Apple is when it comes to repairing their phones.
I can hardly wait until we see the silliness that will come of trying to get an " Apple " car serviced :|
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I didn’t have any problems with a third party replacing a screen on my iPhone.
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I mean, it isn't like Kia is known for high quality or high end automobiles, and Apple does usually tend to try to hit more of the luxury and high quality market in their other products.
Re: Fantastic (Score:2)
KIA is known for high quality automobiles, though they certainly didn't start that way. They have the best warranty in the business.
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Makes sense really.
The high quality end of the vehicle spectrum are the likes of Honda and Toyota, and I'm sure Apple's attempts got rebuffed. Toyota was probably more interested in hybrids than full EVs (though they've come around as of late), and Honda probably
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Sadly the precedent has already been set with Tesla. Particularly with cars that have been bought as write-offs and repaired they cripple them remotely and make life very difficult for third party shops.
Apple may also be tempted to use a proprietary charger, since Tesla did. In Europe they were forced to adopt CCS but in the US it's a non-standard Tesla socket.
The last thing we need is another proprietary charging network. They take up valuable space and grid capacity.
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How is this different than Tesla or any (electric) car manufacturer? An electric car is 1, 2 or 4 electric motors, some batteries and a circuit board. There are fewer and fewer mechanical linkages, steering, brakes is now entirely done on a common bus.
This increases the durability but makes the entire thing less repairable, nobody repairs an electric motor winding, you chuck the whole thing and replace it. The 'common parts' are still just Lithium batteries, the motors are still replaceable, but it will become infeasible to do this at home.
Over time, even the infeasible becomes feasible. We have plenty of DIY mechanics tearing apart Teslas today.
The difference with Apple? They're arrogant enough to make any DIY maintenance a felony.
Electrician's gloves (Score:2)
Yeah, there is that genius Tesla whisperer Rich Benoit of Rich Rebuilds, but we are talking about a high-voltage DC electrical system. You really need special personal protective equipment to work on powertrain components.
Scotty Kilmer mentioned something about "electrician's gloves", that you need to blow air into and inspect for pinhole punctures or small cuts every time you use them.
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Yeah, there is that genius Tesla whisperer Rich Benoit of Rich Rebuilds, but we are talking about a high-voltage DC electrical system. You really need special personal protective equipment to work on powertrain components.
Scotty Kilmer mentioned something about "electrician's gloves", that you need to blow air into and inspect for pinhole punctures or small cuts every time you use them.
Perhaps all the more reason electric (and eventually autonomous) cars will ultimately represent the departure of vehicle ownership.
When you consider all of the safety and telemetry systems involved in ensuring a car operates properly, and those systems aren't exactly tuned with a screwdriver on a carb, perhaps it will be wise to turn cars into something you rent or lease in life.
(As a hobbyist wrench turner who rather enjoys maintaining my own vehicles, I can hardly believe I'm saying this. Sucks, but jus
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Nobody repairs an electric motor winding because they almost never break, and by the time they do your old one is ancient.
Hobbyists do rewind motors to adjust their performance though. I guess if you've got time on your hands you could do that for your EV.
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"...those manufacturers have responded by designing their cars to last only for the duration of a four year lease instead continuing their old philosophy of building an excellent car that will last many years."
Complete bullshit. Do you think anyone for a moment believes this? Have you owned/leased a modern car?
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That is certainly NOT the trend for the majority of common car owners however.
I dunno how well that is going to go over with the majority of people.
Hell, you've got people now starting to balk at subscriptions for streaming and software as that it is just getting to be "too much".
I think the backlash against rental vs ownership is going to increase here at some point.
I know I don't like it....and I hear rumblings t
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The steering (Score:2)
will be a costly option !
Re: The steering (Score:2)
And don't make a right turn. Or "You're steering it wrong!".
Sounds like a joke... (Score:3)
Sounds like a joke. No offence to Kia, my dad's last car was a Kia and he thoroughly enjoyed it for its price, but it still the thought of an Apple/Kia iCar gave me a good chuckle.
So, is it something that Apple designed but they still need a traditional car manufacturer to build it, so it will be a "traditionally" built car? That sounds a bit disappointing, maybe just an unremarkable EV but with looking really shiny and having apps then? Will it go slower as the battery ages until you have to buy a new one? Do their rounded corners etc patents carry over to cars?
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Re: Sounds like a joke... (Score:2)
Kia built fine cars? In what universe?
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Why did you change "builds" to "built"?
Kia and Hyundai are the same company, as is Genesis. They make highly regarded products whether you realize it or not. They also have a relatively advanced EV effort. Of all the car companies they seem like a fairly obvious choice, except to the ignorant.
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If you look at ratings for Kia's in recent years, they are VERY different than a decade ago. Some Kia cars are considered absolutely top notch. That wasn't the case in the early 2000s.
Heck even some American-made cars are pretty darn good nowadays. Apple could have partnered with Ford if the US manufacturers actually made a car that was smaller than an F15000 pickup truck.
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Yes, because they refuse to learn from the auto industry and it shows in their worst-of-breed products.
I would think that a high priority for Apple is that their brand not be diminished by quality problems that Tesla people accept as a given, but that no other buyer would.
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My guess Apple really doesn't want to make a car, and KIA doesn't want to develop Tech for their cars. So they will join together to Make a Kia Car with Apple Tech.
Out of all the Car Companies, I think Kia is one with a lower brand image (not known for really being bad, just not well known globally in comparison with the others) that Kia may have a huge advantage of slapping on an Apple Logo and calling themself an Apple Car.
Compared to say Mercedes or BMW who wouldn't want to be branded as Apple when thei
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Kia already has some of the best in-car tech. It's not perfect but it gets regular updates, it works well and offers a lot of nice functionality. Their system is overall quite solid.
My guess is that Apple want to make an expensive, aspirational product. I don't think self driving will be a major part of it, by the time this comes to market there will be competent systems available from several manufacturers.
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Kia make some excellent cars, very well put together and lots of technology. Some are even quite luxurious.
Have a look at the e-Niro some time. It's one of the best EVs on the market. 300 mile range, decently fast charging, reasonably affordable, well made and good to drive. Very quiet, puts many "luxury" cars to shame.
Kia also gives a lifetime warranty on the battery in some markets, and a generous one in others. They have some of the best battery tech in the world in terms of reliability.
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No, the joke is that they plan to call the vehicle the iKia. And you have to assemble it yourself when you get it home.
Re: Sounds like a joke... (Score:2)
Yeah, but in this case, it will be designed by Kia too. With merely the looks and some silly self-contradicting specs given to them.
It will be just as much a cheap shitty car as any Kia. But now at four times the price!
Re: Sounds like a joke... (Score:3)
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"So I expect this car to be better value and specs compared to a Tesla..."
Nothing like an ignorant take stacked on top of an ignorant take.
Apple has never "undercut" other manufacturers with value, nor is Tesla the standard for value, or the standard for cars in anyway.
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Apple has always been undercutting other manufacturers for the value of what you get. Sure their laptop is $2500, but an equivalent CPU, RAM, SSD, BT/WiFi, support and weight class is still $3500 with Dell or HP.
[citation needed]
16" MBP with a 6-core i7, 512GB of SSD, and a Radeon 5300M is $500 more than the Dell Precision 5550s I bought in December with comparable specs (same CPU, storage, RAM, screen 1" smaller, Quadro T2000 graphics). Also came with 4 years of NBD on site service as opposed to 90 days of "tech support" with a 1-year best effort warranty.
4 trillion won (Score:3)
Apple is investing 4 trillion won
soon to become 4 trillion lost.
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Apple has enough cash to invest in lots of areas, hoping enough of them take off to cover the duds. It's a calculated gamble. They already expect many will fail.
In my opinion, direct brain interfaces have decent promise. It's gradually becoming safer and better. It's a bit scary to think about, but what isn't these days? Progress often has risks. If the US doesn't do the R&D, other countries will. To be economically competitive, we'll probably have to bypass fingers and eyes eventually. They are a UI bo
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And investing in established Korean manufacturing is hardly a gamble.
Re: 4 trillion won (Score:2)
And how many days of profit that it will be cut from?
plenty of trunk space (Score:3)
but I've filled it with adapter cables.
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I'll bet my first born that they will invent a completely incompatible recharge standard with their own connector, cable and voltage, and will refuse to collaborate when governments pass laws requiring interoperability.
I will laugh my ass off if they sell the car without a charger.
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Or a new kind of seatbelt that is more intuitive, but takes longer to put on and is less safe.
They better invest in serious winterizing. (Score:2)
All of my relatives Kia cars rusted out fairly quickly.
They seem to develop lots of rusting in the seams even on their SUV's
They better invest in a better process to protect the metal from corrosion.
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So they will be at feature parity with Tesla in that regard then.
South Korea (Score:3)
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You're saying Apple is clueless about how Asia works even though they've been making all their products there for 30+ years?
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Re: South Korea (Score:2)
So.toootally unlike Murica... which literally has got to not-war without interruption since WWII, over business interests ...
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Is that different from other Asian industries? Should they choose China instead? Japan?
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Unlike USA
Hell, I'll give the South Koreans credit for being somewhat honest about this. Does anybody actually think that the US government doesn't have "arrangements" with big US manufacturers? When it's Boeing vs Airbus, it's often about who has better spies.
Siri.. (Score:2)
"I'm sorry, but that destination is not an Apple store. We will redirect you to an Apple store. Thank you for using Apple Car!"
Is the charging jack on the bottom? (Score:2)
I seriously wonder about Apple's design choices sometimes.
Never (Score:2)
Never gonna happen.
A better CarPlay? Sure. Lots of room to grow there.
Maybe some proven nav tech in another 8 years or so.
But a car? A whole car? And Kia car at that?
Jeopardize CarPlay support with all the other manufacturers?
All to endure ridicule over some pearl white aluminum-trimmed shitbox?
Nope. Someone's PR dept. has gone rogue.
can't wait for glued breaks, wheels, and tires (Score:2)
The end is near... (Score:2)
The death of the internal combustion engine is on the horizon. As a self professed gear head it saddens me. Back in the day I really enjoyed turning a wrench and fixing my own cars. But with all the computer boards in new cars it just isn't practical for the backyard mechanic to buy all of the expensive equipment that is required. Better just to stick to muscle cars from the old days.
Electric cars are here to stay. The cost is now coming very close to IC cars when you factor in the rebates and lower mainten
Not simply a rebadged Kia (Score:2)
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Don't forget the Apple oil, Apple tires, Apple wipers, and Apple air for the Apple tires that have to be used!
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Not to mention, it won't have a recharge socket: it'll only charge up using a very large Qi charger.
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I mean, it's not a horrible* idea. I'd like the idea of just being able to park my car in the garage and have it auto-charge. *Until the cat crawls between the car and charger and gets microwaved.
Resonant antennas used for such long distance charging can use frequencies tuned to not be hazardous to cats or kids. There's a picture of MIT researchers sitting between their two resonant antenna coils transmitting enough power to light up an incandescent light bulb. That together with a Qi-type protocol to detect the presence of metal objects and shut down charging and it's really quite safe to use such a system.
Not very efficient though.
Re: Stallman looks like a prophet (Score:2)
Never mind that. Can they be tuned to not fry dogs, but still go ahead and fry cats and kids? And also the birds overhead that love to poop on the car? Bonus points if it can be refocused aft to fry tailgaters.
Re: Stallman looks like a prophet (Score:2)
Tuned? He'll no. It's Apple, remember ? You get tuned to whatever the car does.
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Re: Stallman looks like a prophet (Score:2)
Don't forget the Apple iStreet and MacStreet Pro!
Coming in milky glass gold with a brushed gold steel bar cage tunnel all around it. ;)
The "gold" stands for what it will be price-equivalent to. No actual gold inside. The actual road will be super-thin glass over a grid of cheap Chinese glass cutter tips made by slaves of the Foxconn-men.
and error 53 for any non dealer work done on it (Score:2)
and error 53 for any non dealer work done on it
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"...and it might not let you drive to a Trump rally."
You think Apple goons aren't also Trumpists? Do you not know SuperKendall?
They share common traits: severe tribalism, lack of objectivity, willful dishonesty, moral deficiency. The real issue is having to choose between Apple and Tezzzla.
Re: Stallman looks like a prophet (Score:2)
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Buttons with little screens on them that change function contextually.
Will it turn on the blinker or will it open the trunk?
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I am guessing you haven't seen the Tesla Model S new steering design. You are not far off.
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That's just planning ahead for a future "SpaceX mode" firmware update.
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In fairness, it's kind of like that already. Sure most cars don't have their hoods welded shut, and you can do simple things like oil changes. But anything more complicated and you'll have to crack out the computer and the expensive OBD interface. In other words, you won't have it and you'll have to go to a garage - i.e. the hood may as well be welded shut for all intents and purposes.
Oh, the humanity! (Score:5, Funny)
Did I just read a post on Slashdot that using the diagnostic port on a modern automobile makes DYI auto repair Just, So, Hard?
I can understand the bit about how the big John Deere tractors are locked down with DRM and DMCA so that farmers on small margins cannot get ahead by doing their own repairs. I "get" Right to Repair laws.
But someone on Slashdot is discouraged from repairing their own car because it involves the use of a computer to get the diagnostic information?
Sad!
Re: Oh, the humanity! (Score:2)
The problem with your analysis is that the manufacturers have spent big lobbying money to prevent you from having the right to everything you need to actually do the work. Modules are often passworded and you cannot make changes without the codes, which are not your property. They also have secret, undocumented, nonstandard OBD-II data that you need to have the full picture.
Re:Oh, the humanity! (Score:5, Insightful)
The slashdot crowd seems to be at the boomer age group now. New technology is so scary! Not like the old days when all you needed was a vacuum gauge, dwell gauge, timing light, and engine analyzer. Yeah simple as can be. Throw in carb float adjustment and flow meters. Oh wait can’t forget the choke either. Yeah new cars are terrible to work on!
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Slashdot is not what it once was. It was invaded by armchair politicians around the time of Bush v. Obama.
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Scotty Kilmer (Score:3)
When taking a car to a garage can cost hundreds of dollars, saying that a $99 OBD-II consumer-grade scan tool is too expensive is a false economy.
Check out Scotty Kilmer's You Tube "channel."
Is the the Jim Cramer of auto repair, yelling when he speaks and telling you what to buy and not buy. You don't have to get the scan tool he recommends, but at least he offers suggestions.
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Yeah yeah I get it. Those who are into computers can get an ODB interface and do their own shit. But your average home mechanic knows about... mechanical things. Many of them know nothing about computers and computer car things. Hell, I'm a developers and I know jack shit about car electronics - and crucially, I'm not interested enough to get into it just to avoid paying a garage to work on my car. I can overhaul a carburetor, and I most likely could plug in an ODB interface and goof around with it, but I'm
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It is the problem when ever someone needs a new tool. My dad had issues when he tried to fix a Japanese car, where all the bolts were in metric, vs empirical like GM and Ford.
There are very little jobs that I can fix on my car, with my leathermen. If I want to go past changing a car battery and the lights, I will need some specialized equipment. That will cost me money.
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You think that's bad? I once had a car that didn't have metric OR empirical fasteners, it had theoretical fasteners.
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. . . . . a cheap socket set that has the most common metric and imperial sizes runs $10 at Wal-mart or Harbor Freight. Not the best stuff but it'll get you by just fine.
Anyone who claims that metric sockets/wrench constitute "specialized equipment" isn't handy enough to be working on much of anything, because you darned well should already have that stuff in your toolbox.
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You couldn’t be more wrong. Anything mechanical you can do yourself. Timing belts, alternators, spark plugs and coil packs. Brakes, rotors, suspension parts. Knock sensors, crank sensors, ABS sensors. All easily diagnosed with a $10 Harbor Freight scanner. Sure some cars have more detailed vendor specific codes but that isn’t even a problem anymore. I owned a Chinese clone of a Volvo scanner that read everything the dealer could. Only thing it couldn’t do is program anything. Same thing fo
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EVs don't have any timing belts, alternators, spark plugs, coil packs, emission control systems, crank sensors, etc. to break.
The do have standard brakes but since the motor does most of the braking, they don't wear out and you shouldn't need to replace them.
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Just wait until the kids figure out you can rewind electric motors.
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Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Since electric cars don't require any maintenance and there is really nothing serviceable under the hood, it doesn't matter if the hood is welded shut. It's a maintenance free appliance.
People are so used to all of the thousands of complex parts of an IC engine, transmission, starter, generator, emission control systems, fuel system, exhaust system, cooling system, etc. breaking down that it's hard to imagine a car that is so simple that it "just works".
EVs are a battery and electric motor plus a bunch of c
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You can get a wifi or bluetooth OBD interface for a few bucks from China, or $20 on Amazon. Just like you can get one of those silly pentalobe screw drivers for a few bucks online or at a decent hardware store.
Re: Stallman looks like a prophet (Score:2)
Yes, and if all you want to do is read and reset PCM codes and maybe do some digital gauges that is cool. If you want to do real work your elm327 is worthless.
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Um, no. The computer/ECU monitors a lot of stuff on modern cars, but outside of the ECU itself typically any part that fails you can swap yourself and the computer never comes into play. At most you might need to reset an error code.
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But anything more complicated and you'll have to crack out the computer and the expensive OBD interface.
Expensive OBD interface? Really? You mean that $5 Bluetooth interface that you can access with the free Torque app on a smartphone? I guess $5 and free really break the bank.
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There should not be much under the hood to fix. As it is my mechanic interfaces with car and reads broken sensors and the like. If there is a problem in the hood, it is part of the car that does not exist in an electric smart car.
The biggest problem I have in my car is that one of several computers keep breaking. Most of those are scattered around the car.
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I wasn’t implying that ICE vehicles are immune to catastrophic failures, just that if your Tesla/Bolt/Apple Car(?) doesn’t “start” when you’re leaving for work in the morning, it’s not likely to be something you’ll be fixing that afternoon with a part from the local Advance/Autozone/O’riley’s.
It’s like Apple’s “it just works” thing. It just works, until it doesn’t. Then, it just doesn’t work.
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Electric motors last literally forever. (Check out reliability of industrial electric motors). Batteries degrade slowly over time (My six year old Tesla with 90,000 miles has about 5% loss of range.)
Electronics and solid state control circuits are "forever" reliable.
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Sure, because new engine blocks and transmissions are super cheap.
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Being an electric car, there isn't anything under the hood to repair.
The motors are much smaller and are located next to the wheels.
Most electric car companies, do keep a hood that you can open, because it is handy for storage though.
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Yup, and only 17 years in the making [slashdot.org].
Re: Flag wrappings (Score:2)
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How do you know that the body will be steel?
Why can't it be Aluminium and specifically recycled Aluminium?
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they prevent any sort of music storage/playback through anything other than itunes
Um, have you used an Apple device lately? I stream stuff from Spotify all the time. I can download a song from them, and I can play it while offline. Same with podcasting apps. Yeah, iPods required iTunes - oh wait, no, MediaMonkey works fine. They're not saints, but they're not devils either.