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Apple Games

Epic To Host a Tournament With Anti-Apple Prizes (theverge.com) 157

Posted by msmash from the take-that,-tim-apple dept.
Fortnite-maker Epic Games and Apple are currently embroiled in a public battle over Apple's App Store policies, and in the latest move in the dispute, Epic has announced a Fortnite tournament taking place August 23rd where players can compete to win anti-Apple prizes. From a report: Last week, Epic added a new direct payment system to Fortnite in violation of Apple's policies. Apple removed Fortnite from the App Store the same day, and shortly after, Epic launched a campaign against Apple by suing the company, releasing a "Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite" video mocking Apple's famous "1984" ad, and promoting the hashtag #FreeFortnite. Players who compete in the tournament have the opportunity to win an in-game skin of the evil-looking apple featured in Epic's "Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite" video (cheekily dubbed the "Tart Tycoon"), a "Free Fortnite" hat, and even non-iOS gaming hardware, including an Alienware laptop, a Galaxy Tab S7, a OnePlus 8 phone, a PlayStation 4 Pro, an Xbox One X, or a Nintendo Switch.
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Epic To Host a Tournament With Anti-Apple Prizes More

Epic To Host a Tournament With Anti-Apple Prizes

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  • So... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vague disclaimer ( 861154 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:04AM (#60426359)
    ...Epic is basically run by 12 year old boys?

    • Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:07AM (#60426373)
      No but that's a large part of their audience, so promotions should be geared towards them.
      • As a former 12 year old buy, those prizes are nothing to me.

        • I am sure if you are 12 now. Those would be appealing, or their equivalents when you were 12.

          When I was 12 I was very Anti-Apple and Pro-IBM. However if given the opportunity to get a Free Mac, I would so take it.
          My bias was based on the fact that I had an IBM Compatible PC, that was mine, so I wanted to feel like I had the better computer than the other kids with Apples II, Amigas, Macintoshes, Nintendos and Segas.

          • I had my PC, my SNES, my PS1 and ZSNES. I was fine.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by aitikin ( 909209 )
            As a non-12 year old, I'd take any of the hardware listed. Would I buy any of it? At this point no, but if I won it I'd be happy with it.

            • Good for you. You didn’t succumb to the psychological ruse.

              Another example:

              I was on the bus before the covid thing, and some H.S. girls were giving this boy a hard time.

              “I bet you want a wife who will cook dinner for you”, said one, “and keep the house clean!”, said another.

              “No I don’t!”, the boy protested.

              By merely stating things that most people would want, in a shitty, condescending way, many people have a self-defensive mechanism which will claim

          • My bias was based on the fact that I had an IBM Compatible PC, that was mine, so I wanted to feel like I had the better computer than the other kids with Apples II, Amigas, Macintoshes, Nintendos and Segas.

            You can rest easy. Many years after, PC is still the superior computer platform compared to the other Handicapware, Wallware and Gameonlyware.

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by tsa ( 15680 )

              I refute your argument thus: Apple is the Best. It Just Works. It is Shiny. It is Beautiful.

              • And an Apple fan will probably tell you the problem you see the Mac doing every time is just "expecting too much" and then goes back to explaining how it works all the time.

            • There were studies showing Apples were cheaper once you factored in training that was not required for them.

              Also, nobody except Apple got intelligent cut and paste correct.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 )

          As a former 12 year old buy

          You should have reported your trafficking.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fazig ( 2909523 )
          Meh, just sell it then for a profit.

          I think the part that's most off putting here for many older folks, including myself, is that you have to play Fortnite with and against those kids to win those prizes. That's not for everyone.

    • Nu-uh! You!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      Or they are trying to look like they are. I always find it funny when giant corporations with dedicated PR departments try to look 'edgy' based on what they think 'those kids we see people talk about like'.

    • ...Epic is basically run by 12 year old boys?

      ...or Slashdotters.

    • Actually, it’s pretty witty and takes a light-hearted, non-serious poke at the situation. Taking the piss out of huge megalocorps is a fantasy shared by many, but only possible for other magalocorps.

      Out of curiosity, what do mature people such as yourself do for fun? What kind of things do mature people find witty? Any brief examples?

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but I always try to keep an open mind,

      Note that I asked what you do for fun, and not “not do”. There’s a differen

      • Actually, it’s pretty witty

        We must have different definitions of "wit."

        What kind of things do mature people find witty?

        Douglas Adams, Kurt Vonnegut, Mark Twain. . .

  • Have fun in court (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:08AM (#60426379)
    Apple's is on it's way to withdraw Epic's developer license. And Epic will most likely sue about that. So in court Apple would want to give reasons why they are cancelling their business relationship with Epic.

    Some stupid stunt like this will really make Epic look good in the eyes of a judge. It's childish, it's stupid, and it may cost them a lot of money.

    • Re:Have fun in court (Score:4, Insightful)

      by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:18AM (#60426403) Journal

      I'd imagine that most people play Fortnite on a Windows PC, so getting banished from the iOS and Mac platforms wouldn't hurt their business much.

      The negative PR might actually hurt Apple more, which might eventually lead to concessions on that 30% cut of all in-app purchases from the App Store.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by gnasher719 ( 869701 )

        The negative PR might actually hurt Apple more, which might eventually lead to concessions on that 30% cut of all in-app purchases from the App Store.

        Negative PR because a Chinese controlled company exploiting immature kids doesn't get what it wants? Dream on.

      • Console. IIRC all 3 of them together pull more than PC.

      • It is tougher to take something away, then to never give it in the first place.

        We got along back in the old days without Internet Access, and TV with 3 stations, we used a computer and or perhaps a game console by ourselves, or we invited people physically over to play with them.
        My parents were the first in their neighborhoods to get TV's and many in their community didn't have electrical power or plumbing.

        They were able to get by then. However after getting these things, we have grown relent on them, and

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jythie ( 914043 )
        I think one of the reasons they are doing this though is that they see the Apple and Google stores as growth vectors. There is not much money in them now so they can take the risk (as opposed to doing the same with consoles) but large potential profits if they get a better deal and then milk it.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        I'd imagine that most people play Fortnite on a Windows PC, so getting banished from the iOS and Mac platforms wouldn't hurt their business much.

        The negative PR might actually hurt Apple more, which might eventually lead to concessions on that 30% cut of all in-app purchases from the App Store.

        No, the biggest loss for Epic is Unreal Engine. Loss of Mac support is a big deal - even though it's a minor platform, it gives a major concession to Unity, a major competitor. Other developers license Unreal Engine f

        • Apple was built on rebels that despised being forced and pushed around. And I am one of them. I donâ(TM)t like Apple pushing around developers. I have tremendous admiration for developers, their hard work and dedication. If Apple wants to spit on developers and their hard work thatâ(TM)s fine. I canâ(TM)t change them. But I can ditch them any second and this is helping a lot.

          Satya Nadela fixed Microsoft, and now I have a lot more Microsoft gear than 5 years ago. Who will fix Apple? It has bec

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Excelcia ( 906188 )

      Epic's actions have never been geared towards winning in court. They are trying to win a PR battle.

      What Apple is doing isn't illegal, but it isn't in consumers best interests. Epic is fighting a PR war to get the point across that the Apple Walled Garden is a fairly creepy "give up your choice and we will save you from everything evil" monoculture. Forget a white savior complex, it's an Apple as Savior complex.

      You know who else tried to make all software development a monoculture? Texas Insrtruments. Ep

      • New technology brings new loopholes in the law. Just like Uber is definitely not a taxi company, but every state and local government tried to claim they are because they realized that all their laws are inadequate to deal with them not being a taxi service.

        In the same way, Apple is not doing something illegal - just something that should be. It's not quite a monopoly, but between them and a couple choices, they nearly entirely shut down any chance of open competition - somebody gets a cut of every app sa

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by anegg ( 1390659 )

      Epic is using humor as part of their argument that Apple's policies are unfair. Public opinion can have a powerful influence on how disputes get resolved, even if the courts get involved, and humor can help them sway public opinion.

      In addition, Apple's de facto position is that their fees are fair and just compensation for the cost of providing the app store services. I don't know how Apple originally established the percentage of sales that was "right", but their original model was probably conservative

    • Key part: "may cost THEM a lot of money"

      Compare that to Apple/Google status quo where their duopoly is very similar to Standard Oil trust 100 year ago. These duopolies, their abuse of power to restrict market competition well documented does SURELY cost US a lot of money.

      ---

      An idea is only stupid if it doesn't work. As libertarians (the default Slashdot political ideology) we should support Epic in spending their own money where our market regulators (a main part of government) have failed us. This means we

  • Only one prize that isn't like Apple. (Score:5, Informative)

    by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:14AM (#60426393)
    That is the laptop
    3 are consoles which have the same practices as Apple and 1 phone by Samsung which is just S Korea Apple.

  • Prizes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:17AM (#60426401)

    Prizes include a walled-garden, locked-down Playstation 4, a locked-down Nintendo Switch, a locked-down X-Box One X, and a Galaxy Tab S that runs the Play Store by Google, whom Epic is also suing. Boy Epic sure does hate walled gardens!

    • It is just the walled garden with the higher HOA fees, and restrictions.

    • It will be more constructive if you can propose alternative prizes that they should offer.

      Everyone has sins. But for the moment we are focusing on Apple sins and the failure of US regulators to hold even the most pervasive abusive monopolists accountable.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by JBMcB ( 73720 )

        But for the moment we are focusing on Apple sins and the failure of US regulators to hold even the most pervasive abusive monopolists accountable.

        It's interesting that you use the word monopolist, when I just listed four other platforms that Epic distributes Fortnite on, not including Windows or OSX. If Apple has a monopoly on something, it's a pretty crappy one.

        Also, why the hell do I need to install Epic's crappy gaming market platform to play Fortnite on Windows? I *have* to install their store to play one game? Then, by default, it pops up ads for crap I don't want? Epic complaining about Apple is pretty ridiculous.

        • Apple has a monopoly on installing software on 1 billion devices deployed around Earth. (Which is fine) They use that monopoly to preventing from competing with them in other markets (this is abuse). If monopoly is too strong a word for you, then substitute oligopoly (and expand 1B to 2B) with other geographically close co-conspirators.

          - You can't make a competing product to App Store, they prevent jailbreak, they prevent uninstalling App Store
          - You can't compete with Safari ($12B/yr from Google) because th

        • It was once considered too much of a monopoly for tv networks to advertise on their own.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DewDude ( 537374 )
      What if part of their stunt is to show how much power these companies have taken. It's a simple fact that if you buy a device and then a company continues to tell you what you can and can't do on that device; it raises a legal question as to if you even own it. If you don't own it...then what exactly are you paying $1200 for? We've just come to expect this with game consoles...but it's happening in everything. If anything Apple and Google are just resorting to mafia-like tactics; "pay up or you'll be out of

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by JBMcB ( 73720 )

        But if things continue to erode and you have a situation where the $1200 device you pay for is ruled to simply be a license...then there's going to be a lot of questions as to additional limits. Soon...you may not be able to resell anything you purchase; period. The same way as it's technically illegal to refill a container that says "do not refill". You can thank Lexmark for that.

        That's true, but we wouldn't be having this discussion at all if Apple had 10% market share. People are choosing to buy Apple products with these restrictions. I have an iPhone and it does exactly what I need it to do. I don't play games on it so I couldn't care less about Fortnite. I have a Windows desktop for games. And an Android tablet to play around with mobile development on. I have a Xerox Phaser printer that takes 3rd party toner. I have a Switch that only runs Nintendo-approved games, and that's fi

      • Have you been living in a cave? iPhones have had the AppStore since the second iPhone. It has always been locked down.

        Did you buy an iPhone expecting to be able to side load apps?! Are you some kind of stupid?

        • Shame on them for thinking they actually own the device once purchasing it.

        • All the assholes complaining about Apple's business model with the App Store are Android users. For some reason there's a subset of nerds who have an irrational hatred for Apple despite never having to use their products. That's what's so annoying about these arguments that Apple is "harming consumers"—Apple's restrictive App Store policies are exactly what their users love and it pisses off certain neckbeards and Microsoft fans (an odd alliance, to be sure).

    • Prizes include a walled-garden, locked-down Playstation 4, a locked-down Nintendo Switch, a locked-down X-Box One X, and a Galaxy Tab S that runs the Play Store by Google, whom Epic is also suing. Boy Epic sure does hate walled gardens!

      No Epic is all about openness. In completely unrelated news IOI took an anonymous donation and as such Hitman 3 will be an exclusive on Epic's woeful excuse of a store. Nothing walled about that.

  • Anti-Apple Prizes? (Score:4, Funny)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:21AM (#60426419)

    Oranges?

  • Yeah, this is great fun... (Score:3)

    by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @09:38AM (#60426485)
    ... unless you make your money off an Unreal engine game on the app store.  Epic is going to permafuck a lot of until now successful devs.

    • How so? Epic's fight with Apple doesn't (directly) affect users of UE4 at all.

      • Apple wants to kick all Unreal games off the platform.

        • Hmm, not quite. They are threatening to take away Epic's access to Apple SDKs, which would make it hard (and possibly illegal) for them to improve UE4 further, but it wouldn't trigger existing apps from getting booted at all, unless there is some undisclosed way in which the engine itself is currently violating Apple's terms.

          For example, our product is based on UE4 and what we get from Epic is a whole ton of source code, that we in turn build to make binaries. If Epic were to get permanently booted off Appl

          • It would just kill all future development on that platform.

            • Hamper it? Probably, at least for awhile. Kill it? Not by a long shot. (I listed 3 feasible examples of how they might move forward - there are probably many others)

  • I'm 'generally' not in favor of extra regulations on industry, but I do think well thought out regulations are necessary and important.
    It seems to me we are at the point were we need some kind of law that requires a platform (electrical, hardware, etc.) which inherently has the ability to control other companies to the disadvantage of consumers. Should be forbidden from doing so.
    A modernized extension of anti-monopoly law, that recognized that certain technology always creates a limited monopoly, in the fa

  • Don't most judges frown pretty harshly on claimants trying to bypass the courts and due process by engaging in such shenanigans. At the very least, it's going to taint the hell out of any potential jury pool. It's not like they can change venue to bumfuck nowhere. This is Apple and Fortnite. Good luck finding people who've no preconceived opinion on either even before the lawsuit. With Epic throwing a tantrum like this? By the time enough impartial jurors can be rounded up, Fortnite could have gone th

  • You kids these days... (Score:5, Informative)

    by presearch ( 214913 ) on Friday August 21, 2020 @10:51AM (#60426779)

    You kids have no idea.

    In 2000, We had a game out for the Mac and Windows. We set up a system to take credit cards, handle downloads and updates, and handle user support.
    We wanted to get into retail stores to grow beyond web downloads. I contacted Casidy & Greene about being our publisher.

    They wanted 85% of sales and if they decided to enter markets with other languages, we should have to produce all translation,
    for both the games and packaging, for free, or they would do it and they would get 100% of those sales and ownership of those titles.

    They wanted all source code turned over regularly, not in escrow, and reserved first right to buy us out at some future, unstated value.
    They also wanted exclusivity and the right to set the sales price, locking us in for 5 years. The contract was pages and pages long.

    We had to supply all development hardware and software, and at the time, dev tools were not free.

    We declined. Apple's 30% was a bargain and still is.

    • That's the 2000s, this is the 2020s.
      There were barely any options back then, since retail and physical copies are a costly market to enter due to the logistics and the hardware investment. Today's market is made costly purely to drive profits of the platform owner's up.
  • Epic could have been a little bit more specific. Right now, sounds like these anti-Apple prizes might as well be anti-Coca Cola prizes, or anti-Exxon prizes. It's very easy to call something anti when everything is anti-everything else.

  • to shit on apple with a cheesy advert parodying the 1984 Mac advert once again proved it will forever live in Valve's shadow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    They really are frigging useless.

  • The core questions concerning all of this are as follow:

    1. Should iOS devices be classified as computers or game consoles? Remember Apple's "What's a computer?" ads which would play in their favour.

    2. If they are classified as game consoles, is a 30% cut of each sale too much for the services delivered by Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony?

    • 1. Should iOS devices be classified as computers or game consoles? Remember Apple's "What's a computer?" ads which would play in their favour.

      I don't see why a computer can't be locked down. All sorts of electronics are "locked down" computers. The only problem occurs when you are in a position like Microsoft was in the 90s, where so much business and government critical software was exclusive to their platform that they had an effective monopoly over 95% of computer users. Macs had some niche uses but in the late 90s, if you weren't working in one of those niches, a Windows PC was a necessary tool for conducting business. Importantly, the softwa

  • Clearly Epic is just using legal processes to drum up advertising from the media for their game. Epic is clearly happy to buy consoles from vendors which supply locked down environments with less freedom than iOS, with even more exorbitant licensing fees too. This is simple evidence for anyone to use in court to show the market Epic is competing in is the âoevideo games marketâ and that Apple has a minority share there. Well played Epic for getting your name out there some more.

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