New iPhones To Stick With Lightning Over USB-C, Include Slow-Charging 5W USB-A Charger In Box (9to5mac.com) 248
For those hoping the next iPhone would ditch the Lightning port in favor of the more versatile USB-C port, you'll surely be disappointed by the latest rumor. "Japanese site Macotakara says that not only will the 2019 iPhone use Lightning, Apple will also continue to bundle the same 5W charger and USB-A to Lightning cable in the box," reports 9to5Mac. "This is seen as a cost saving measure. It seems that customers wanting faster iPhone charge times will still have to buy accessories, like the 12W iPad charger." From the report: The site explains that Lightning port is not going anywhere and Apple is resistant to changing the included accessories to maintain production costs. Apple can benefit from huge economies of scale by selling the same accessories for many generation. As such, Apple apparently will keep bundling Lightning EarPods, Lightning to USB-A cable, and the 5W USB power adaptor, with the 2019 iPhone lineup. This is disappointing as Apple began shipping an 18W USB-C charger with its iPad Pro line last fall, and many expected that accessory to become an iPhone standard too. Even if the iPhone keeps the Lightning port, Lightning can support fast-charging over the USB Type-C protocol. It's not clear if the cost savings of this decision would be passed on to consumers with lower cost 2019 iPhone pricing.
Rolling Eyes (Score:2, Interesting)
Most customers want to keep the same connector, because they already have chargers and cables, and sometimes even accessories, for it.
USB-C is better in the long run, but that doesn't make it better now.
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USB-C is better in the long run, but that doesn't make it better now.
It's not going to "get better" later. They already have Lightning chargers, cables, and accessories now, and they will still have them three years from now too, as long as new iPhone models continue to use Lightning ports. They have to buy new everything at some point, unless Apple starts releasing iPhones with both Lightning and USB-C ports, and then does an actual transition of introducing new accessories slowly that are USB-C. Fat chance on that.
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It's much more likely that Apple will go completely wireless, so as to not have their perfect edges marred by ports.
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You’re probably right. Yes, it means you cannot do a “hard reset” and plug it into a computer to fix it, etc. But almost all people never do that anyway. The rest of my family only ever plugs their phones in for charging or headphones. Any emergencies, take it into Apple for servicing, I guess.
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That's really not how it works. We’ve seen it before, when iPhones went from the “Dock connector” to Lightning. When Macs went to Firewire, and then to Thunderbolt. They will not have two ports.
And I never said USB-C will “get better.” My point is that it will be a better business decision later. When? Well, since the premise I offered is that people have Lightning already, and not USB-C and since it is well-understood that more people are getting more USB-C devices every ye
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One example was the adoption of gym equipment. When lightening first hit the scene the ability to play or even charge your phone from the equipment, while using the elliptical vanished. There is always something cool about knowing that I was generating my own re-charge power through my work out.
I have a love hate relationship with the lightning connector. I love the fact that it’s reversible. I also love the fact that the connector is smooth and not prone to dents and dings. Micro USB tends
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I have a Galaxy S8 with USB type C. I'm underwhelmed. The connector is loose, and it can disconnect from USB if you pick it up from the desk to check something on the phone. I've accidentally not charged my phone overnight because I didn't have the connector in properly. And it's a total mess because you don't know by looking at the connector what it supports. Does it support Thunderbolt-style PCI-e and DisplayPort packets? Does it support analog audio? Does it support USB 2 mode, or only USB 3 mode?
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The connector is loose, and it can disconnect from USB if you pick it up from the desk to check something on the phone.
Why on earth aren't you using the wireless charging if that's your use-case?
That's where wireless charging really shines! I've got the little puck on my desk at work. Drop the phone onto it, glance to make sure that it lit up to indicate it's charging, and done. When I want to check something on the phone, pick it up, check, drop it back onto the charger. It is sooo much more convenient than a cable.
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I use a Spigen wallet case (Galaxy S8 Case Slim Armor CS), meaning I have credit cards in my case so I don't need to carry a wallet. Wireless charging isn't a good option for me unless I want to run the risk of a magnet wiping my cards.
Also, I find cable charging to be more convenient because I use my phone fair amount (over 6000 minutes per month on average). I need to be able to pick up my phone without it stopping the charge. My cable never falls out. I've had it happen, but only with very cheap cabl
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I'm not really surprised that when you're using your phone in an entirely different way than the GP that you wouldn't find wireless charging useful.
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Yeah, USB-C combines all the benefits of not knowing what your cable does with the freedom to plug it into whatever you want and have it silently fail to do what you expect.
Great connector, abysmally poor planning.
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Re: Rolling Eyes (Score:2)
The sooner they switch to USB-C, the less painful it's going to be. It's only a matter of when.
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Nope. As time goes on, more people will have more USB-C cables and chargers, from other devices. The pain will *decrease* the longer they push it out.
Re:Rolling Eyes (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering I have a total of ... zero Lightning cables and accessories, but a ton of standard USB-C?
Who cares? You’re not a customer.
Re:Rolling Eyes (Score:4, Insightful)
Who cares? You're not a customer.
No, he's a potential new customer, which actually makes him more valuable. He's someone who, in large numbers, would change the market-share of the product. Getting people off competitors' products and onto yours is a higher priority for businesses, or do you think it's just an odd accident people switching from one broadband provider to another get discounts and loyal customers get nothing? Or that people get bonus rebates at their local Ford dealer when they trade in a similarly-classed Chevy vehicle?
Once you have a customer under your umbrella it's easier to keep them there, because many people don't want to go through the hassle change entails, so you can spend more energy trying to create churn that benefits you.
Not all customers are worth the trouble (Score:2)
No, he's a potential new customer, which actually makes him more valuable.
Not necessarily. Not all customers are equal and sometimes the cost of winning a new customer exceeds the value that customer brings.
Getting people off competitors' products and onto yours is a higher priority for businesses
Definitely not in Apple's case. Apple has never tried to chase market share at any cost. They have always been happy having a smaller but more profitable and stable portion of the market. In the case of the iPhone they get the vast majority of the profits in the industry so it's unclear what point there would be to them in chasing low margin customers unless their market s
Re: Rolling Eyes (Score:2, Interesting)
No, I donâ(TM)t think that he is. I doubt he would buy anything with an Apple logo on it, no matter what it was.
No no no no no (Score:4, Interesting)
Business schools teach a "potential new consumer" is worth about 10% of an existing consumer. Because he is likely to have many reasons not to switch. (You think a new cord is a bigger deal than his entire app library?) You want to keep your customers happy first.
The Ford example is very wrong because it's not a potential new customer. It's a new customer.
And frankly, I don't see anyone switching to an iPhone who is going to care about the cables. If you're willing to pay a premium for the hardware/OS/store, then you're willing to pay a premium for a new cable. Meanwhile, if you think getting rid of the headphone jack made people not want to upgrade, get rid of their new lightning headphones, and all their other accessories. Getting rid of the lightning port hurts their best customers the most.
Also, the lightning cable is better than USB-C. It's more solid (can support the weight of the phone), and it's more wear resistant and it's designed so the wear goes more on the cable, not the phone.
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he's a potential new customer
False.
He's someone who, in large numbers, would change the market-share of the product
Changing to USB-C would not pull in large numbers of new customers, obviously.
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No, he's a potential new customer, which actually makes him more valuable.
There's a balance here. Switching to USB-C could mean gaining new customers but also losing existing customers.
What does anyone gain with USB-C over Lightning anyway? USB-C can handle more power but the battery in a cell phone is unlikely to take advantage of it. Lightning and USB-C can both give USB 3.0 speeds. USB-C can go faster because of more data lanes and such but, again, in a phone this is unlikely much of an advantage. Could USB-C mean the ability to use more accessories? Maybe, but that also
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Nah. There are many Apple-certified inexpensive Lightning cables these days.
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He's not their customer yet, so they do care.
Once you have swallowed the whole Apple infrastructure hook, line and sinker you can't bail anymore anyway without cutting your losses.
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I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying (it's not even for an iphone but a raspberry-pi style device). I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone. Fast charge doesn't matter if you're able to actually let go of the phone and put it down, charging overnight should last all day.
I have now countered and balanced your data point, thus nullifying it.
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I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying (it's not even for an iphone but a raspberry-pi style device). I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone. Fast charge doesn't matter if you're able to actually let go of the phone and put it down, charging overnight should last all day.
I have now countered and balanced your data point, thus nullifying it.
My new phone came with a USB-C fast charger. I didn't shop particularly for it, but I guess that's what new phones are supposed to come with now (I paid about $350 for it, so it's a midrange device).
I absolutely LOVE the fast charging. I can charge the phone in under an hour. I'm now pissed off by my older devices that charge so slowly. This will become especially important as the phone ages and the battery capacity goes down - because at that point charging overnight is not enough to make it last all day.
Fast charging on iPhones (Score:2)
I consider all people willing to pay $1000 for a new phone without fast charging to be dumb, frankly.
To be fair you can get fast(er) charging with the iPhone if you buy their (expensive) USB-C to Lightning cable and one of their (expensive) higher voltage USB-C power adapters. I have this setup at home and it works substantially faster. I haven't timed it but it gets me most if not all of a charge in less than an hour.
Honestly though my complaint about the iPhone charging is that they continue to use Lightning connectors when USB-C has eliminated any technical reason for Apple to continue to use them. U
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List of personally-owned devices that have an USB Type C port, and how many such ports they have:
- Desktop PC (1)
- Lenovo X1 Tablet (1)
- Monitor (Samsung C34H890) (1)
- Port Replicator for laptop (2)
- nVME SSD external enclosure (1)
- Phone (Samsung Note 9) (1)
- Samsung DEX (1)
Add 5 or 6 chargers to that, that's a lot of USB type C cables needed for that.
And you missed the point of the whole article: iPhones do NOT use USB type C, contrary to what you are implying. Or maybe you got confused, I don't know.
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It is worth noting that Apple has many devices with USB-C.
My MacBook Pro has *only* USB-C. Newer Apple TVs (last two or three gens) have only USB-C (in addition to HDMI and power). The new iPad Pro has only USB-C.
Apple isn’t anti-USB-C. But their existing customers are mostly longtime customers who have lots of cables and chargers, and do not want to be forced to buy new stuff.
USB-C against the world (Score:2)
I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying
Oh well clearly then your single data point proves that nobody uses USB-C despite it being on nearly every new computer and smartphone sold these days, including all the computers sold by Apple.
I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone.
Because even if you aren't trying you end up with a bunch over time. I've used iPhones for several product generations and so has my wife. I'm sure we have at least a dozen Lightning cables between us. I have 40+ USB-A/B cables, dozens of micro and mini USB cables, and probably 5 USB-C cables with more undoubtedly
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Ye olde USB 1 isn't going away anytime soon, because it is cheap to implement. That makes it ideal for low-cost, low-bandwidth devices, especially input devices. And USB 2 has to stick around for another decade or so because of legacy flash drives and cameras. Consequently we will have all forms of USB for the foreseeable future.
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My single data point was made to counter the single data point of someone with the other position :-)
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I have a USB-C-to-Lightning cable. No adapter required.
In fact, I have more of those cables, than I have USB-C-to-USB-C cables. I have a bunch of USB-A-to-USB-C, but one USB-C-to-USB-C (not including my MacBook Pro power cables).
Re:Rolling Eyes (Score:4, Informative)
They removed the audio port to make it waterproof.
Re:Rolling Eyes (Score:4, Insightful)
Samsung has an audio port, it's kinda waterproof (down to about 5 feet). Apple removed the audio port as a marketing gimmick to sell their wireless earbuds. They hardly lost any customers over it, so they consider it a hit. Apple defines the value of propaganda.
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And that audio port is more expensive and more prone to failure. Shrug.
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No, they removed it because it took up space that they wanted for other things. The fact that they have wireless headphones to sell gave them options, but I don't think it was because of that specifically.
The haptic feedback system they're using takes up space. The screen design takes up space. The reason why they don't have an audio jack on the new iPad Pros is because it would intrude on the space taken up by the screen because there are almost no bezels—they've decided that aesthetic of small bezel
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Thanks man, I needed a good chuckle today.
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That’s what I do. I use that cable all the time.
The 5W charger is a joke (Score:2)
Re:The 5W charger is a joke (Score:4, Informative)
Re: The 5W charger is a joke (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would anyone want OS updates for 5 years and no Google watching your every move?
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The kind of OS updates that deliberately slow down your phone "to protect customers"? Yeah, I wonder...
Re: The 5W charger is a joke (Score:3)
The update that can be turned on and off you mean? Is that worse than no updates at all leaving users vulnerable?
Re: The 5W charger is a joke (Score:3)
No you can turn off the "feature" that slows the OS down when the battery is old and struggling (or replace the battery). As for the rest of your post, Slashdot is no place for rational analysis and common sense ;-). I actually have an Android phone as well, a Galaxy S4, and it runs nicely with LineageOS 14 but to me it should be up to Samsung or Google to provide this rather than abandoning their customers after 18 months maximum.
Re: The 5W charger is a joke (Score:2)
Takes like an hour if youâve never done it before but are relatively competent. Technicians that do it all day long can manage 20 minutes. And many Android phones arenât significantly easier fyi.
Re: The 5W charger is a joke (Score:2)
Better than ignoring your customers and leaving them vulnerable to malware.
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The kind of OS updates that slowed down the CPU on phones where power draw exceeded what could be provided by the worn out battery?
That's what they say, isn't it? Believing it is a choice.
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Why would anyone want OS updates for 5 years and no Google watching your every move?
The people who want OS updates and no apple owning them?
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As dumb as Siri is with dictation, I have no fears of it reporting back my information. Aside from incorrect pronouns (they instead of she, it instead of them,etc), its likely to report me playing squash or flying a box kite. There is some comfort in that ;-)
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I like how Apple forces Google as the iOS search engine for eight billion dollars a year, and still has people who buy into their schtick that they are there to protect your privacy.
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Why would anyone want OS updates for 5 years
I struggle with this too! What do those OS updates get you? An animated poo? OS updates stopped being relevant about 4 years ago when it became increasingly obvious that the smartphone industry (not just Apple, but Google as well) ran out of ideas.
I used to care about phone updates. These days I only care about security updates, and Android has pretty much solved that problem by decoupling it from the OS itself. When the most amazing new feature to roll out through the OS is a function that allows you to de
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Because they saved $83.00 on their phone. Saving $83.00 and calling everyone else who paid more "stupid" is what life is about.
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The profit margin on each iPhone is so huge that I don't buy the 'cost-saving measure' angle. Many factories are already tooled for USB-C ports/chips and that can be ramped up to supply Apple. They could even use the exact same 5W charger, if the included cable is USB-A on one end and USB-C on the other.
The real rationale is that moving to USB-C won't encourage enough people to get an iPhone that it's worth losing the lock-in of Lightning and creating confusion with another port switch. I remember the switc
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This is proof that many people buying Apple products will buy their products regardless of how bad of a deal it is. The type of connector makes little difference in most people's lives, but the refusal of Apple to give a quick charger on such an expensive phone is simply inexcusable. There is no reason other than greed and charging the customer extra for the privilege of fast charging.
For a fast charge... (Score:4, Funny)
Huh? (Score:2)
This is seen as a cost saving measure. It seems that customers wanting faster iPhone charge times will still have to buy accessories, like the 12W iPad charger.
Will have to buy one? I have had one for years and use it to charge everything from iPhones to Garmin devices, Android devices and headphones.
Passed On (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not clear if the cost savings of this decision would be passed on to consumers with lower cost 2019 iPhone pricing.
Oh I guarantee they'll take the entire 5 cents off the total price, making it ONLY $1199.95! Order now!
Proprietary (Score:2)
Apple can benefit from huge economies of scale by selling the same accessories for many generation.
I think they meant "Apple can boost their profit by selling proprietary Lightning accessories"
I don't blame them (Score:2)
They'll get so much flack for it from people who don't know better.
Between USBc teething issues and the switch to lightning only being what 4 or 5 begrudging years ago, it makes sense to wait.
Let's see them make Apple pencil and headphones USB C and a few more MacBooks being out in the wild.
They'll bide their time on the flagship product
Alle charge (Score:2)
But is slow charge not still better for the battery?
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In general, a slow charge is better for the battery. Fast-charging can be done with minimal harm to the battery if certain conditions are met. For more details see the link below. (Link discusses in terms of Li-ion, not sure if Apple has switched to LiPo but we can assume they behave similarly to Li-ion).
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
There's only one kind of charging... (Score:5, Funny)
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Through the nose.
maintain production costs (Score:5, Funny)
"...Apple is resistant to changing the included accessories to maintain production costs."
understandable, they barely make a profit with selling price they're asking for those phones.
As long as Apple is resistant to changing (Score:2)
I'm resistant to changing to Apple.
It is actually that simple.
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It's more morbid curiosity. A bit like why I hang out around flat earth and other conspiracy sites. I wonder what makes people consider it a good idea.
I admit, I rarely understand humans. Twice so if they're irrational. And these are about the most irrational things I can think of. And it's fascinating to behold. It's kinda surreal, a little bizarre and also a tad sad. But absolutely fascinating.
$1200 for an upgraded 6S plus (Score:3)
Face ID - nice feature, but doesn't actually add convenience.
Wireless charging - useless feature since I can't charge while watching the phone. The charger needs a cable anyway.
Edge to edge screen - means I can't use a protective cover to avoid breaking the glass and still be able to reach all parts of the screen. Also, holding the phone from the sides becomes difficult as it interferes with the text.
Swiping gestures to replace the home - means you have to swipe either side of the phone. If I use the phone right handed, I can manage this, but left handed, I end up dropping it all the time.
I upgraded from the iPhone X 256GB to the iPhone 6S plus and it was the biggest upgrade I ever made on a phone.
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You shouldn't have to download 1
Eco-friendly? (Score:5, Insightful)
The site explains that Lightning port is not going anywhere and Apple is resistant to changing the included accessories to maintain production costs.
Just remember Apple is claiming to be eco-friendly [apple.com] while producing hundreds of millions of unnecessary, proprietary, and redundant connectors instead of using an industry standard USB-C cable that would accomplish exactly the same purpose AND waste less in the process. Not to mention that USB-C can transfer data faster (480Mbps vs 10Gbps), transfer more power (12W vs 100W), be double ended, and work with other devices.
When Lightning was introduced it was an improvement over the truly awful microUSB connectors. USB-C has eliminated any reason for Lightning to continue to exist other than profit seeking and vendor lock in.
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Because "industry standard" wires don't use natural resources.
Standard products = less waste (Score:3)
Because "industry standard" wires don't use natural resources.
Using a standard cable means you need less of them in total. It means that nobody has to create tooling or waste energy or transport a second type of cable. This costs real money, uses real energy and is easily shown to be wasteful.
All connectors are imperfect (Score:2)
USB C also has its problem
All connectors have their problems. USB-C isn't perfect but it's definitely Good Enough. The physical connector is a big upgrade over Micro-USB (keyed connectors suck) in pretty much every meaningful way. It's very fast, can carry all the power a smartphone will ever need, is double ended, it's cheaper, and has more advantages besides.
Lightning has about 10 times more sturdy connection.
Not really true but even if it were that is not sufficient justification for its continued existence or use. USB-C is durable enough to get the job done in most cases and
You say that like it's a bad thing (Score:2)
Of course, if Apple had announced a change to USB-C, then they be getting shit for making their users change cables again. Samsung would probably run some ads mocking the move, despite transitioning to USB-C themselves.
Lightning made sense... at first (Score:2)
And you don't think they deserve some mocking for going with ligthning in the first place, considering there was the deal, that manufacturers would make an effort to unify the ports on phones?
No because microUSB sucks sour frog ass. Seriously, it's a terrible physical connector. If USB-C had been available when Lightning was introduced then yes introducing Lightining would have been a terrible decision. But at the time of its introduction Lightning as a big improvement over the alternatives even in the face of being expensive and proprietary. Now however USB-C has pretty much eliminated any meaningful advantages Lightning once had, hugely outperforms it, and is standard. Apple sticking with
Apple is just being Apple (Score:2)
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you'd think with all their month Apple could afford people who innovate and actually invent things. Can't remember the last time they did either...
Fragile vs not so fragile (Score:2)
When I first saw information on USB-C ports, I thought, "Hopefully they've made them more sturdy than the crappy micro-USB!"
My hopes were dashed by reality - USB-C incorporates the same weak design as micro-USB, just altered to so that the cable can be plugged in without regard to "up or down".
The problem with both ports is that the device-side contacts are on a thin plastic strip, prone to being broken if the cable is flexed. And since the first-to-break part is embedded in the expensive device, rather tha
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Their prices have gone up dramatically. Apple have lost the plot lately.
They seem to have finally woken up to that: https://www.bbc.com/news/busin... [bbc.com]
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Re:bend over. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, a "cost-saving" measure on a device selling for upwards of $1000 and with a huge profit margin. Sold by one of the richest corporations in the world.
"Profit-saving" measure is the proper word here.
As you said however, gullible Apple fans deserve it. "There's a sucker born every minute" - and at least every 5 minutes it's an Apple fanboy.
Re:bend over. (Score:5, Insightful)
Moving to a standard USB-C connector would be nice though. Not enough reason in itself to upgrade the phone, but it would help. Now just be brave, end the thinness war, add a physical home button again with fingerprint scanner, give us a bezel instead of a notch, or just drop the front-facing camera completely (along with the inane face unlock) and add a small screen to the back of the phone for taking selfies. A lot of the recent stuff they have done such as the notch, dropping the headphone jack, face unlock, all feel like they are rather clumsy workarounds.
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I don't think "profit-saving" is even accurate either. It would be more accurate to say profit-generating measure. And with their new wireless charging pad being released this year, what better reason to "upgrade" to that latest (expensive) accessory and help them generate even more profit
And why did I put "upgrade" in quotes? Because wireless charging isn't much of an upgrade. Sure you don't have to plug in a wire, but it's slow. Even slower than the basic charger that comes in the box with your phone. But
Fire saving and battery lifetime extension? (Score:3)
There may be a rationale for 5W versus 20W chargers that has to do with making the phone batteries degrade slower and reduce the risk of fire.
But I do know that my phone gets pretty warm when it is charging and though heat flux does not scale perfectly linearly with temperature, for small differences it's linear enough to say that if you double the charging rate you will double the temperature rise.
Since I'd not want a phone that was 3 times hotter than room temperature rise than it gets now I think this b
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There may be a rationale for 5W versus 20W chargers that has to do with making the phone batteries degrade slower and reduce the risk of fire.
So then why does Apple sell a 12W charger that charges the iPhone at 12W, rather than just 5W? Is it because the degradation of the batteries and risk of fire are lower with a 12W Apple charger?
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The comeback is, well then how come apple doesn' sell a 50 watt charger?
Evidently there is some limit and I discussed what the sources of the limits are.
I would strongly speculate that the 12 watts charger only really runs at 12 watts under optimal cooling conditions or for part of the cylce. It's may possibly be more of a fast-charger as I noted at the end.
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Trump Traitors? Is that like the Wesley Crushers?
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The word you're looking for is chutzpah [wikipedia.org].
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The USB-PD protocol is physically tied to USB Type-C signals. It can not be implemented over a Type-A connector. You require the CC (Configuration Channel) lines to facilitate USB-PD communication. The Type-A connector instead relies on specific pull-up / pull-down resistors on the data lines. It is nasty compared to the newer, USB Type-C / USB-PD standard.
I suppose Apple could use an active Lightning to Type-C cable to implement USB-PD. It would not be simple and would require that the Lightning co