Apple MacBook Refresh Could Bring E-Ink Enabled Keyboard (hothardware.com) 159
MojoKid writes from a report via HotHardware: Apparently Apple has been working on some unique upgrades to its MacBook line, and not just underneath the hood. One of the bigger feature upgrades could actually be in the keyboard. As previously rumored, the new MacBook Pro is likely to sport a secondary touchscreen display at the top of the keyboard. It will sit in place of where the Function keys used to reside and display different graphics and icons, depending on the program that's up and running. However, according to an anonymous reddit user named "Foxconninsider," Apple's also planning to launch a new version of its Magic Keyboard -- one that takes advantage of E-Ink technology. Similar technology was developed by a start-up company named Sonder, the same company Apple is in the process of acquiring. What the tipster describes is each key having its own E Ink display. That means individual keys and/or entire rows can change based on whatever app is loaded. In any event, we should know more soon -- Apple's expected to announce new MacBook products later this month.
That would help logistics too (Score:5, Interesting)
The only part of a laptop that has to be changed for each country is the keyboard, hampering logistics. If you can have a software-configurable keyboard, that would help reduce costs for unsold laptops, stock breaks, etc. Even in no application ever uses the facility, just that advantage should be enough, once you get to the right price-durability-functionality combo.
Also the resale value would be increased, as you can now sell it in any country.
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Informative)
They used to do this back in the day with normal printed key caps, but it was unpopular because in many languages they ended up with blank keys. For example some Amiga models had two blank keys and a note in the box explaining that they were for Europe wide standardization and should be ignored.
Japanese keyboards have three extra keys on the bottom row, making the space bar really small.
Another issue is that some keys are different shapes in different countries. In the UK the return key is tall and kind of apostrophe shaped, where as in the US it is a bar.
I'm sure Apple could do it anyway, by being courageous or something and revolutionizing the keyboard by forcing everyone to use a new Apple custom layout. They will probably remove superfluous keys like Caps Lock, CTRL, ESC and J.
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Funny)
They will probably remove superfluous keys like Caps Lock, CTRL, ESC and J.
Remove the 'J' key! That's a yolly good idea!
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Interesting)
People rarely need to type J. If you need it, you can just say "hay Siri, type J for me" and she will respond "okay Dave, I'm typing J for you." You can even follow it up with "son of a... hay Siri, type a lowercase j for me!"
Alternatively you can get a J key dongle for only $29.95. Of course you will also need a USB-C hub/charging dongle if you want to plug in at the same time. You have to admire their courage.
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To be fair only a dickhead would have a username that includes the letter J.
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I'd say that people need to type Z a lot less than they do J.
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And we can spell 'fish' as 'ghoti' and get rid of F, too?
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"Finding pictures of blue jays"
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Insightful)
No-one uses the "J" key anyway. If someone wanted to use the "J" key they could just attach a special "J" key button via the lightening port.
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That makes perfect sense, it's the brave thing to do.
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Funny)
No-one uses the "J" key anyway.
Right. The Romans did ivst fine vvithovt J, U and W.
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Not really. They got their asses kicked by the Hvns and the Goths. Maybe because they ran out of avelins.
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Not entirely.
The first electric keyboards had different shapes and placements for the new "Return" key. Earlier, there was no such key, as the carriage bar lever would do the job. Some had a small key, and some a larger key. IBM Selectric typewriters started out with a big square key, prominently marked so manual typewriters could find it. It then became the reverse L shape to give room for one more key on the qwerty row.
Others had other ideas - Olivetti had some with a tiny red key in the bottom right
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The IBM Selectric's has a lineage which goes back at IBM to the Electromatic typewriter in 1929 which IBM bought in 1933 and kickstarted their typewriter division.
That one had circular keys, the "Carriage Return" key being slightly larger and to the right of 'P' and slightly down. It then stayed at the same position on IBM's typewriter up to the 1961 Selectric.
Before the Electromatic, the Blickensderfer Electric from 1901 had its "Line" key in the same position but I can't find any info on whether that one
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:4, Funny)
They will probably remove superfluous keys like Caps Lock, CTRL, ESC and J.
17 November 2016
CUPERTINO (AP) Today Apple unveiled it's eagerly awaited refreshed Macbook line. The new model is said to be keyboardless and screenless in a move described by some as "bold" and "ahead of its time". Instead of a keyboard and screen, the new Macbook has a touch sensitive sunk relief hand pad and a monocrome Apple logo that lights up and pulsates when the user places their hand in the indentation. This move was explained by Apple CEO Tim Cook who was quoted as "We know our fans don't want complex machinery, they want a simple, streamlined user experience and that is what the new Macbook provides, we have taken the courageous step of not just removing the keyboard, but the screen as well".
This expected move was greeted with surprise and delight by Apple fans worldwide who knew about this from internet rumours for months but still were shocked by the news. One fan, Wayne Kerr commented "This is so revolutionary, no other laptop has removed the keyboard, let alone the screen. This is the start of the post screen era." shortly before trying to sell our journalist his left testicle in order to buy one. As expected, the new Macbook has drawn criticism from supporters of traditional laptops.
Leaks from Apple insiders say the pulsating light emitted from the device is emitted at the right frequency and wavelength to inspire feelings of contentment and reinforce that they made the right decisions buying an Apple product. Leaks also stated that Apple imagineers believe that this is the only reason anyone buys their products.
The new Macbook will go on sale in early December for US$9,938. Apple are expected to offer a wireless keyboard and monitor as optional extras.
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It nice in theory, but I wonder how many software developers will put for the effort to add keyboard change functionality when the market is limited to those who have this keyboard. This is the chicken, we'll need the egg.
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The nice thing about Apple is that they often neatly solve the chicken and egg problem simply by virtue of being the only producer of mac os capable systems. USB was not an Apple invention, but they solved the chicken and egg problem nicely simply by refusing to produce any more macs with legacy keyboard and mouse hookups. Suddenly if you wanted to make a mac compatible device, you had to use USB, and everyone who bought a new mac was looking for USB devices, so there was now a market too.
The same thing wou
Limited availability not a problem (Score:2)
It nice in theory, but I wonder how many software developers will put for the effort to add keyboard change functionality when the market is limited to those who have this keyboard. This is the chicken, we'll need the egg.
There is no backwards compatibility problem, no limited availability problem. The image displayed on the key may change but the character generated by the key can remain the same. Consider a video game that uses ASDW for movement. The displayed images could be changed to directional arrow while the keys still generate 'a', 's', 'd' and 'w' characters. So the only software change necessary would be to check for the new keyboard and if present update the key images for these keys.
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Also the resale value would be increased, as you can now sell it in any country.
Exactly.
When I'm selling a 4 year old computer I always make sure to advertise it on Craigslist in as many countries as possible...
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There are people living close to borders you know. I'm one of them. It's neat, you should try it once.
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There are people living close to borders you know. I'm one of them. It's neat, you should try it once.
Which is clearly an "edge" case by definition!
Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Insightful)
The only part of a laptop that has to be changed for each country is the keyboard, hampering logistics.
That's not the only difference, no.
WiFi regulations differ too, in what channels and signal strengths are available. Some won't allow a chip that can do channel 14 on the 2.4 GHz band, even if turned off by software or drivers.
Other certification requirements can lead to different models too. My US Sony laptop has UL and FCC stamps, but lacks CE and TÃoeV approvals. The European counterpart was more expensive, even in countries outside both the US and EU.
Then there are other regulations. One country may allow plastic with milled carbon fibers to be called carbon fiber, while another may not. Or may outright prohibit some chemicals used in a paint. Or may require different backlight tubes.
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Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Informative)
Except you can't, because some countries use the weird 104-key layout and the rest of the world uses the wonderful 105-key keyboard.
Well, at least they could reduce the number of physically different keyboards to about 3 - ISO, ANSI and JIS - rather than have a different model for every country with suitable key caps.
Also, maybe then we could get a patch to fix the hideous mutated chimera of UK and US layouts that is Apple's current UK keyboard (I mean, how the hell? I'd get it if they'd just taken a US keyboard and changed the "#" label to "£", but they've gone to the trouble of re-shaping the Enter key... and then still just changed the "#" label to "£", missing all the other US/UK differences....)
Re: That would help logistics too (Score:2)
Why change the # to £. Would change if the $ to £ make more cents?
Then again with the way the £ is falling it will soon be worth less than $ and might fall as far as ¥
2016 the year stupid people discovered they could lower the world's intelligence by talking.
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Why change the # to £ (...) Then again with the way the £ is falling (...)
Yeah, pretty soon it will be on the tilde key between z and shift.
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Why change the # to £. Would change if the $ to £ make more cents?>
Don't know if typo or clever pun.....
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You only think it's wrong because you lack courage.
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Actually, it would be an ideal place for the "any" key!
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Re:That would help logistics too (Score:5, Informative)
Except you can't, because some countries use the weird 104-key layout and the rest of the world uses the wonderful 105-key keyboard.
Apple keyboards have 78 keys. They don't make a 100+ key keyboard any more.
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Not true
http://www.apple.com/shop/prod... [apple.com]
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Yes, someone caught me on that already.
Still, the original post got modded "Informative" somehow. Probably because of the corrections.
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um... http://www.apple.com/shop/prod... [apple.com]
Well don't just present me with FACTS! How do you expect me to defend my un-researched position? >:~|
Still, I guess what I was getting at is that every *default* configuration for every Mac sold is the ~80 key keyboard. The laptops are fixed at ~80 keys anyway, the default keyboard shipped with the iMac is ~80 key, and the Mini and Pro don't ship with keyboards unless requested.
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Except for when pro users of Mac products buy keyboards specific to applications, such as this one for Adobe Premiere [editorskeys.com].
Have one of these new ones? Just load a profile that ships with your edit suite, and save $130.
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Those a awfully niche products. You really have to push yourself to learn what amounts to an entirely different layout for each bit of software. What happens if you use After Effects along with Premiere? Or Photoshop?
I hardly ever use function keys. Just give me assignable keyboard shortcuts and a friggin' 17 inch laptop, Apple.
Oh, and ports. Lots and lots of ports.
Getting late. Must be time for my meds. Nurse!
Useful for video games (Score:2)
Parent is right... what user wants to constantly look at the keyboard and then look at the screen, back and forth? Shortcuts like F1, F2 etc make sense rather than icons on the keys. This is just another superfluous technology, like $160 wireless earbuds.
Redefining the images displayed on the keys would be useful for video games. No bringing up the help screen to figure out what key some functionality is on. Just a glance down at the keyboard.
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Having French Letters on your keyboard means safer cybersex
Nice, but (Score:2)
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It is time for a new Apple desktop design. More than just keyboards. But touch screen as well.
Nearly all the other manufacturers have a touch display.
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It is time for a new Apple desktop design. More than just keyboards. But touch screen as well. Nearly all the other manufacturers have a touch display.
While touch screen displays are fine for a tablet, smartphone (pretty much essential) and possibly a laptop they IMHO are useless on a large screen display for a desktop although I will add the caveat it depends on what you are doing.
I have a Logitec MK710 Cordless Desktop which I purchased last December and I have never changed the batteries for either the mouse or the keyboard, My battery status is still basically at 90% even though I use it every day and never turn off either device. The only problem I
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The only reason touchscreens are a big thing now is because Steve Jobs watched Star Trek:TNG and/or Minority Report a few too many times and decided to inflict them on the world, making full use of Apple's ability to dictate to consumers what their preferences will be.
Touchscreens are perfect for phones and tablets. If you don't want them on those kinds of devices, you're batshit crazy.
PCs and laptops, yeah. Fuck off with the touchscreen. Not a method of interaction suited to work.
Re:Nice, but (Score:4, Interesting)
Touchscreens are interesting, because in some cases they are generally superior, and in others they are abysmal. One thing I think may actually be temporary is the idea that a touchscreen device can be permitted almost no other inputs, ever. That is strange.
Games are a really interesting one, because touchscreens simultaneously opened up a bunch of interesting new control methods, while completely being bonkers for any game where you meaningfully control an avatar on the screen. We've seen a bunch of workarounds including controls on the screens, and they DO work, but... they are nothing compared to a controller. Interesting for sure.
For raw productivity, there's only a few things that they seem to be good at. For viewing and reading, they seem to be great.
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My 4 year old MBP ...
belongs to another Apple era.
Having to look at keyboard sucks. (Score:4, Funny)
I don't want to have to look at keyboard. I'm writting wile looking at the screen not keyboard.
So that sucks a bit.
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I don't want to have to look at keyboard. I'm writting wile looking at the screen not keyboard.
Quite :)
Re:Having to look at keyboard sucks. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm writting wile looking at the screen not keyboard.
Evidently not.
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This doesn't sound like it's for touch typists. It sounds like this is for those people who have no idea what the F3 key on the keyboard will do for them RIGHT NOW.
p.s. If you need this post translated in any other language you can open up the handy Slashdot translate utility by pressing alt+F4.
Re: Having to look at keyboard sucks. (Score:1)
Stupid translator keeps crashing my browser.
what's the point with e-ink keys (Score:1)
I assumed that people who use their mac for work or are touch typists don't really look at the keyboard?
So what's the point?
Re:what's the point with e-ink keys (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you ever been in a editing suite? They often have keyboards with custom keycaps that have functions printed on them along with the standard letter, usually color-grouped as well for like functions. It allows they keyboard to be easily used as a control plane without the usual CTRL/OPTION modifier to access functions.
I would imagine addressable display keycaps would be useful for heavy Photoshop users or any other function-heavy application where actual typing would be a minority of the activity. Auto switching to a typographic keyboard would happen when you switched apps or to a text field in a function-enabled application.
I have to admit, I've often wondered if it would be possible to have keycaps have little displays in them for remapping the keyboard or showing custom keybindings. Plus it allows you to automate keybindings programmatically depending on tool or more selected.
But I always figured such a keyboard would be both expensive/complicated and be most useful if it had a standard programming interface that applications could address directly vs. some kind of manual setup or macro functionality.
An ErgoDox of questionable quality (Score:2)
No "J" was harmed in producing this post.
Re:what's the point with e-ink keys (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope. Most power users - the ones that don't need to use the drop down menus - use keyboard shortcuts. The professional programs allow you to create your own bindings so you can improve your workflow since a given user tends to use a certain subset of the program's functionality on a regular basis. So having the keyboard 'show' you the new binding really doesn't help. If you can't remember it, you aren't working fast enough to worry about it anyway. The keybindings need to be on the main rows in order to use quickly, so this sort of device / feature, while not entirely useless, typically won't be seen as a plus by a power user.
Unfortunately, that is becoming increasingly true of Apple computers in general, but i digress a tad.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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I live in a trilingual area. When you buy a computer you have to decide which layout you will be most typing in and then stick with that. For many people who need to switch a lot between languages it would be nice to be able to set and see the keyboard layout according to the language used, like one can do on mobile phones and tablets. The same goes for shared computers at home (bilingual family here), in offices or on production floors.
I definitely do agree with you in cases like you have mentioned but for most people, it all boils down to a particular keyboard normally given by default for their purchase and they make do with it.
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I have a bog-standard Swedish keyboard, yet it's no trouble for me to write text in English, Spanish, German, French, or any just about other language that uses Latin characters, with no need to change the layout. Am I holding it wrong?
Re:what's the point with e-ink keys (Score:5, Funny)
They're Mac users. They're probably hunter-peckers.
I've heard that about Mac users ... or was it pecker hunters....?
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That's osist!
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Backlit keys (Score:2)
How could you do this with backlit keys? That was one of the big features Apple introduced to keyboards.
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APL Keyboard! (Score:2)
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Ah memory lane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
What will it look like 3 years later? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a touch typist who keeps my fingernails to about 1mm most of the time. Right now the my 4-year-old 17" MacBook Pro keyboard has five keys where the black color on top has been eroded away: E A S D and left shift. The control and command keys area also showing some wear on the top coating.
So what happens when the key is an active electronic device? I guess at some point a key top will just stop working. At the worst it might even short something out. And I know they will want it to rewrite the key tops when you use the accent composing feature, so just hope that a key doesn't die right after you hit option-E!
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So what happens when the key is an active electronic device? I guess at some point a key top will just stop working. At the worst it might even short something out. And I know they will want it to rewrite the key tops when you use the accent composing feature, so just hope that a key doesn't die right after you hit option-E!
Oh, drats, you'll just have to discard your macbook sooner. Apple thinks your old computer is "sad." [slashdot.org] They just want you to be happy again sooner!
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Will probably look like new. If these are indeed touchscreen keys, there is no thin layer of paint on the surface to wear off. The upper surface is glass, just like an iPhone screen, and does not suffer significant wear from constant touching.
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It's probably still hard enough.
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So what happens when the key is an active electronic device?
About the same thing as happens when you replace plastic with some e-ink under a protective sheath, or when someone switches glass to diamond, or spraypaint with 2pac clear coat.
You're talking about two fundamentally different designs (sandwich of multiple layers of electronics in between layers of polymer, vs a piece of plastic with some paint on it).
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I'm a touch typist who keeps my fingernails to about 1mm most of the time. Right now the my 4-year-old 17" MacBook Pro keyboard has five keys where the black color on top has been eroded away: E A S D and left shift.
If you really care about typing perhaps you should be using an external mechanical keyboard anyway? If all I am doing is typing, I'll take a five year old computer with a good mechanical KB versus a brand new laptop with a built in KB. It's the part of the computer, along with the pointing device and screen, that has the greatest impact on me while using it.
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Apples and oranges. You can't compare wearing away paint with wearing away plastic.The layer of paint would be thin and raised too, compared to a thicker uniform plastic surface.
Modders please downvote the original post (with no disrespect to the poster) or upvote some of the replies.
Wouldn't it be easier... (Score:2)
Wouldn't it be cheaper/easier/more comfortable for end user to have a replaceable keyboard?
Like some cell phones let you replace the rear panel of your phone to change the colour without using a case- you could have an empty tray with sensors on the bottom where the keyboard goes, and then just a clip in keyboard to go on the top that presses the sensors below. An interchangeable clip-in keyboard selection.
Want a different layout, buy a different keyboard insert for $10 (or $40 since this is apple) a cheap
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Wouldn't it be cheaper/easier/more comfortable for end user to have a replaceable keyboard?
It is replacable. Buy a new Mac.
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Easier, yes, but functionally limited compared to software-controlled keys.
Also, I can think of lots of ways just off the top of my head, as to how people would screw this up.
Personally, I've always wanted to learn to type with a dvorak layout, but it's damn near impossible to find keyboards like that. Being able to programatically change the keys would make this not only possible, but easy and convenient.
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reddit user "exFoxconninsider" (Score:2)
reddit user "exFoxconninsider"
Finally! (Score:2)
Time to refresh my APL skills!
Too soon (Score:2)
Apple perfected the UI a long time ago... (Score:4, Funny)
Million dollar idea too late (Score:1)
It's about time. I had this same idea back in 2000 (minus the e-ink) of making a keyboard that was essentially a gigantic touchscreen and could be completely configured by defining areas as certain keys. It would allow for non-traditional keyboard use (gaming, foreign keyboards, etc), plus you could make the keyboard have backgrounds, high contrast, etc.
My additional idea was to make low-cost capacitive screen covers that would sit on top, essentially replicating more of the feel of a keyboard (soft keys,
While this will look cool and sounds cool (Score:2)
This is just a shiny hi-tech version of those per application cardboard templates people used to have on their keyboards in the 1990s when on-screen menus were shit.
I can see this being fun for five minutes and then annoying as fuck - just like all those menus which change with context only on a keyboard that we've got used to thinking is static.
See the annoyance of "soft keys" on monitor
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Imagine a user learning vi for the first time? Press escape..and the keys are instantly re-labelled.
Imagine any other tool of any type that you're starting to learn to use, or a tool you've used for a long time but
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I've taken up your suggestion of imagining a new vi user with context changing key labels and have come to the conclusion that it would confuse them even more and make them less able to operate without the changing labels.
For specific cases where a workstation is mostly using a single application, as others suggested here (photoshop or something), I can see a point and the optimus keyboard or this new s
Where are they going with this? (Score:2)
Isn't that the logical conclusion for where they're headed with this? A keyboard with no moving parts, and reconfigurable e-ink "keys" which simulate a keypress with a little synthetic click when you press the right location with enough pressure.
This was tried in the late 1970s with
"E ink" is a company (Score:1)
"electronic paper" is a technology.
Which is it actually?
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The company E Ink only has one product category, E Ink Vizplex. So everyone calls the displays by the company name and not the product name.
Specifically the E Ink displays are a type of EPD (electrophoretic display)
Disclaimer: I used to be a device driver developer for the Kindle a long long time ago. So my information on this subject is up to 8 or so years out of date.
When you can't make it faster (Score:2)
When you can't make a laptop that is better in a way that matters to users, like making it faster, then you start to throw gimmick on it.
Re: Sounds Familiar (Score:1)
I use this model and work and the eink thing has been nothing but crap. Who wants capacitive keys on a keyboard? I know i sound a bit neckbeard but the nice thing about a keyboard is that nothing changes and you dont have to look at it to know you have pressed it and where you press to do something doesn't change. I did also find i was accidentally brushing it with the back of my hand which would do some random stuff.
Also check out the bios update logs on the x1 carbon. They are a comedy of errors. Who need
Re:Sounds Familiar (Score:5, Interesting)
I was assigned a Lenovo X1 Carbon with the e-Ink display above the F-keys at a previous job. Needless to say, I was glad to turn that laptop in the day I left.
First, the geniuses at Lenovo decided that the Caps Lock key was not useful, so assumed people would be happy to hold down the Shift key for a few seconds. The caps lock key was replaced by the Home and End keys, and the backtick/tilde key was moved by the right Alt key. This made trying to do basic Linux system administration a PITA. Reaching for the escape key resulted in flipping the E-ink display to a different set of items than the F keys.
There are many things to improve on. Dinking around and moving often used keys is not an improvement. Companies keep trying to do that, be it Compaq where the space bar was cut in half, giving a large backspace key. There might be some compromises, such as locating the arrow keys somewhere different, but changing the fundamental layout of a keyboard doesn't do much other than annoy people, forcing them to have to use a USB or BlueTooth keyboard in order to get work done.
Of course, there was the implementation of the e-Ink bar. It made reaching for a F key annoying, because you were used to hitting a key, not tapping plastic, and with the escape key moved, half the time, it meant you had to tap the bar to get it to the set of function keys.
Decent idea, poor implementation, and it hindered things more than it helped, especially with critical keys moved around willy-nilly.
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FOR WINNING ARGUMENTS OF COURSE.
That's the only reason I can think of.
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As a CTRL key, what else?
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As a CTRL key, what else?
Emacs users configure it as an extra CTRL key.
Vi users configure it as an extra ESC key.
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I think Lenovo was correct. How is the fat caps lock key useful today?
for typing acronyms...
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Touch disease is probably based on the iPhone 6 Plus being able to torque a bit more than is desired, resulting in some contacts having more play than they should, which eventually messes them up. Probably. Most iPhones don't have this issue, including the 6S Plus, which has a bit more reinforcement in the body, or any of the non-plus phones, which don't seem to torque as much. That would be totally unrelated to a tech like this (or even other smartphones).