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Bug Music Software Apple

Apple Says It Doesn't Know Why iTunes Users Are Losing Their Music Files (theverge.com) 214

Earlier this month, an Apple Music user James Pinkstone claimed that the online music streaming service deleted 122GB of music from his library for no apparent reason. Several Slashdot readers noted they had also faced a similar issue or knew someone who had. The iPhone maker has now acknowledged a bug in iTunes that is apparently causing the glitch, however, it adds that it doesn't really know why "some" users are facing this issue. The Verge reports: The company confirmed that "in an extremely small number of cases, users have reported that music files saved on their computer were removed without their permission." However, Apple was unable to reproduce the bug, indicating it doesn't really know what's going on here. The company adds: We're taking these reports seriously as we know how important music is to our customers and our teams are focused on identifying the cause. We have not been able to reproduce this issue, however, we're releasing an update to iTunes early next week which includes additional safeguards. If a user experiences this issue they should contact AppleCare.
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Apple Says It Doesn't Know Why iTunes Users Are Losing Their Music Files

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  • by sunderland56 ( 621843 ) on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:51PM (#52112001)

    They're really claiming that they don't know why this is happening?

    Note to iTunes software engineers: grep through your code and find all calls to delete(). Investigate the code in those areas. If you can't add some basic debug code - or if you're unsure of what "grep" is - maybe you should consider a move to management.

    • This assumes that there is a single person with access to all the source code. It wouldn't surprise me if the various parts of iTunes were written by independent teams with no access to each others code, intended to prevent an employee from stealing the source code and selling it to a competitor.

      • Erm, do you develop software?
        Soirce code is hold in a source code management system/versioning system.
        Onviously for single apps all developers have access to all code. Everything else is not realy imaginable.

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          You've never linked against a library where you had only headers and a binary?

          • I did ... in the stone age of software development, or rather in the copper age when we used windows.
            Before windows and after windows I usually have all sources. I work mainly with Java anyway in our times ...

          • Sure. But not for software written by the company I work for.

            I can believe that different departments at Apple don't get access to new software that hasn't been announced yet. Apple likes their secrets. But long established software like iTunes, no chance. Of course developers on the iTunes team have access to all the source for the app.

        • Erm, do you develop software?
          Soirce code is hold in a source code management system/versioning system.
          Onviously for single apps all developers have access to all code. Everything else is not realy imaginable.

          Given the complex frankenstein-style monstrosity that is iTunes, I would not be surprised to find out that there are a couple different teams and that the iTunes store guys simply do not spend time looking at the video playback code.

          There'd definitely be an engineer who could bring it all together, and search the entire codebase, tho.

      • This assumes that there is a single person with access to all the source code. It wouldn't surprise me if the various parts of iTunes were written by independent teams with no access to each others code, intended to prevent an employee from stealing the source code and selling it to a competitor.

        God, I thought nobody could be so clueless about software development, and about copyright law.

        If you were an Apple employee and tried to sell the iTunes source code lets say to Microsoft, they would call their lawyer, who would call Apple's lawyers and the police, and you would go into the history books as one of the most stupid criminals ever.

        • If you were an Apple employee and tried to sell the iTunes source code lets say to Microsoft, they would call their lawyer, who would call Apple's lawyers and the police, and you would go into the history books as one of the most stupid criminals ever.

          And if you were a Chinese hacker who got into that single account which has access to the entirety of the iTunes source code... nothing bad would happen to you. You might even get a bonus, or promoted.

          Not everybody plays by the rules.

          • And if you were a Chinese hacker who got into that single account which has access to the entirety of the iTunes source code... nothing bad would happen to you. You might even get a bonus, or promoted.

            I had a chinese developer once try to sell me the code for a competitors software he had worked on. I phoned the competitor. Next day the coder was raided by the police in bejing.

            I try not to think about the poor bastards life after that. Justice can be brutal over there.

      • That would explain a lot, especially the Windows build.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      Indeed, I read the title as, Apple admits it is totally incompetent at software programming. This'll probably get modded down by apple fanboys.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, 2016 @04:15PM (#52112659)

      The fact that this got modded +5 on Slashdot is a clear sign people here have no clue what the fuck they're talking about anymore. Anyone who has ever worked on any complex software is aware that unusual sets of rare circumstances can result in unforeseen behavior and the solution is rarely as easy as "grep for problem."

      I've no doubt iTunes devs know exactly where all the file-deletion calls are, and all of them are legitimately necessary. The question is, what secondary functions call those, and what tertiary functions call those secondary functions, etc. on down the rabbit hole; what assertions and double-checks are used to ensure only the appropriate files are removed; what is the entire set of circumstances that results in a delete when there shouldn't be one? The answer absolutely is not going to be found right at the site of the delete call.

      To hazard a guess: iTunes has various methods by which it caches music downloaded from a user's online library, or from Apple Music. These files might be stored locally permanently (the user can specifically request to locally cache stuff so it's available w/o internet access or if they want to make permanent copies of items in their online library) or temporarily (when the user simply chooses to play a song or playlist from the cloud). There are also local files that may exist in the user's online library, but are the user's actual original source files. So some of these items iTunes can (and should) safely delete under various circumstances, while others should not - if I had to bet, some unusual set of circumstances results in iTunes incorrectly seeing files that should be permanent as temporary, resulting in their deletion. Control-F "delete" doesn't do shit to help find the source of that sort of problem.

    • And that's exactly what Apple will be doing. Since Apple cannot reproduce the issue, and has no real idea if it ever occurs, is a user error, or is a bug, they basically have one option:

      Go through all the code that uses FSDeleteObject(), FSUnlinkObject(), and unlink() (The function calls iTunes actually makes) and either replace them with calls to FSMoveObject() or fortify the code with additional error checking they can't confirm will help.

      The issue is, under no circumstances is iTunes supposed to delete m

    • by tom229 ( 1640685 )
      How in the hell are you modded so high? If they can't reproduce the issue, how can they debug it? Furthermore, you think they're just failing to find that line someone put in by accident? if (rand()%3==0) delete(random_song();) . Fuck! There it is! This is obviously some very obscure syncing bug, or quite possibly something even stranger. I hate Apple with a passion and will look for any excuse to flame them, but even I can't get on board with this.
  • by citizenr ( 871508 ) on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:13PM (#52112335) Homepage

    Just like they didnt know why 'some of users laptops GPU died' for almost 4 years before admitting fault and reluctantly being forced to a recall.

  • Weasel words. When I worked in support, if something failed 100% of the time we officially described the problem as "under some circumstances...".
  • Apple admitted there is a problem, and that "some" users were affected.
    When you take into account Apples tendency to pretend there are never any issues, and silence everyone who tries to talk about them, and when they finally do say anything they downplay it to the extreme, this immediately makes me think it's a HUGE problem they can't suppress simply because they admitted it happens and there were actual users that got nailed.

    (Is that an award length run on sentence, or does it not even qualify?)

    Personally
    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      ITunes installing shovelware? You must have been using some seriously compromised sources. Apple simply admitted they have had some complaints but can't reproduce the issue. This is equally as likely a bug in the underlying hardware or operating system than an iTunes bug or maybe even user incompetence (corrupt library files doesn't mean the data actually disappears).

  • If they really don't know, then they've got to be incompetent. It's not enough to say what they are incompetent at, but at least at quality control.

    Of course, they could be lying about not knowing, or the spokesman could be kept intentionally ignorant.

  • i've been there.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by resfilter ( 960880 ) on Saturday May 14, 2016 @03:26PM (#52112569)

    i've never really used apple products, but my wife does the macbook iphone thing. we've had two experiences with it randomly deleting her shit.

    first time (this was about a year ago, not sure what itunes version):

    she got a new iphone, all was well. we wiped the old iphone. one day she dug up her old iphone, and decided to start using it to play music in her car. plugged it into the macbook.

    itunes asked if she'd like to sync with the new device. she said yes. it deleted all of the music on her computer, including physical files.

    plugged her new phone in, it acted as if it had never seen it before, and asked if she'd like to sync. it then deleted all of the music on her new phone as well.

    second time:

    she'd been using iphoto to organize all of her pictures (many thousands of them)

    fired up iphoto one morning, and all of her shit was gone, it was like she'd never used iphoto in the first place.

    no sign of the monolithic 'iphoto store' file, or anything. no original pictures. gone.

    there are two things my wife loves, pictures and music, and it systematically fucked her entire collection without warning. unfortunately many of these items had not been backed up. these are just my observations, i don't know why it would do these things, and i don't care. i no longer trust that peice of shit operating system or any of its devices, and i use incremental backups of her entire laptop using rsync now (not time machine, i don't trust it either)

    • by Rosyna ( 80334 ) on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:42PM (#52113487) Homepage

      itunes asked if she'd like to sync with the new device. she said yes. it deleted all of the music on her computer, including physical files

      This did not occur. iTunes does not permit an iOS device to become the "master device" for songs. It will only copy songs to the iOS device (except for purchased songs, which it copies to the existing iTunes library). It's actually a very common complaint that iTunes won't copy all songs off an iOS device.

    • by tom229 ( 1640685 )
      Did iTunes also break your shift key?
      • Probably not. Welcome to the new phenomena of what I call "lazy caps": all lower case-often with an occasional word written with a capital letter just to prove that their keyboard is indeed working.

        And not, it's not mobile device text entry: if anything, those thing auto-capitalize the beginning of sentences, at least. No, it's the I-can-touch-type-faster-then-I-think-stream-of-conscious-keyboard-diarrhoea-using-my-pinky-fingers-slows-me-down-fuck-I-gotta-do-this-quickly-someone-is-WRONG-on-the-internet [xkcd.com] f

    • And all this is why I'm averse to allowing any application to maintain a "helpful" data-base of my images or to obtain any control of my file system. I go with all manual backups to multiple physical locations under my control. No backup to the cloud. Especially no automated backups with syncing. There are too many stories out there of syncs that go the wrong way and delete everything local to match an erroneously empty directory in the cloud. As far as Apple goes, and I'm very far from a fan, I'd gue
  • When itunes became a thing I was already an avid fan of winamp. I used it to manage all of my music and edit tags as needed. I think I tried itunes once because, well why not, but something about it scared me. Either all the software it was installing on top of it or I was too afraid of it screwing up all my id3tags. Though I never expected it to actually delete your music. Considering the number of unreleased and white labels, I could see it screwing up all my music.
  • by hedley ( 8715 ) <hedley@pacbell.net> on Saturday May 14, 2016 @07:26PM (#52113255) Homepage Journal

    Switched to plex and never looked back. Works streamed to your cell, and then on to a bt stereo in the car also. Joy. Ripping though, I still use itunes, and then move the media to the plex server.

    H.

  • I had about 62GB in my music library. iTunes (which i only use to sync music on my iPod) deleted everything except the 10GB or so that was purchased on Apple store. .

    I had a huge vinyl/cd collection to start with; when I liked an artist I used to buy the entire discography. So I grew my digital library and saw it as my own private Spotify. Put it on random and it's like a commercial-free radio that will never play Kanye West or Celine Dion.

    I have a backup on Glacier and could re-rip stuff if I really wanted

  • Several years back, I made the mistake of checking the option on my iPhone to "sync subscriptions" for podcasts. I later deleted a podcast from my phone, as I was all caught up with it and needed the screen real estate to make looking for other podcasts easier. When I next synced with iTunes, it deleted all past episodes I had stored on my Mac -- years worth of the science fiction podcast Escape Pod. No warning, no recycle bin. Gone. And I wasn't backing up audio files via Time Machine because of their size

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