'Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously' (vellumatlanta.com) 341
Vellum's James has written about his ordeal with Apple Music which many people can relate to. Apple Music, the Cupertino-based giant's online music streaming service, deleted 122GB of music files that James had stored on his computer. He writes: What Amber (supposed Apple Support representative) explained was exactly what I'd feared: through the Apple Music subscription, which I had, Apple now deletes files from its users' computers. When I signed up for Apple Music, iTunes evaluated my massive collection of Mp3s and WAV files, scanned Apple's database for what it considered matches, then removed the original files from my internal hard drive. REMOVED them. Deleted. If Apple Music saw a file it didn't recognize -- which came up often, since I'm a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself -- it would then download it to Apple's database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me when I wanted to listen, just like it would with my other music files it had deleted. This isn't the first time Apple Music has deleted a user's locally stored music files. Long-time Apple watcher Jim Dalrymple canceled his subscription last year and called Apple Music a "nightmare" after the service allegedly deleted over 4,700 of his previously bought songs. At the time, he wrote: At some point, enough is enough. That time has come for me -- Apple Music is just too much of a hassle to be bothered with. Nobody I've spoken at Apple or outside the company has any idea how to fix it, so the chances of a positive outcome seem slim to none.Incidentally, Apple Music is rumoured for a reboot at the company's developer conference in June. It's not clear if fixing the aforementioned glitch is among Apple's imminent agenda.
It can't be said too many times (Score:4, Informative)
Backups, Dude. Backups.
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Non-story? Maybe. Depends on whatever license he clicked thru, any changes made to that license agreement (one way only - from Apple - you can't change your end willy-nilly), and if clickwrap licenses/contracts are legal.
Otherwise it would seem on the surface that there maybe a copyright violation, when Apple copied his stuff (original compositions and recordings) from his machine to their machine ...
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I'm pretty confident that is covered by the EULA, its a feature that it serves up a copy of your music from the cloud, only to you, if that music doesn't exist in the apple music library.
Deleting the original files is really bad form though and doing so without confirmation is a violation of Apple's own UI guidelines.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Informative)
Except that it doesn't. From the article:
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Your "edge case mistake" is my bug!
If you RTFA, you will see that this person experienced this "edge case" in more than one file.
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Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Insightful)
user should learn to configure his stuff before setting a torch to his local content
No, Apple should learn to not set a torch to content on user's machine
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Still a piss poor design, violates the principle of least surprise and apples UI standards.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be one of the few cases of actual theft since the result is that Apple gains a copy and he lost one.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:4, Insightful)
Cryptolockers do almost the same thing, they store a key on their servers and take away direct control over your files. But it seems apple is getting away with this. Because its headquarters isn't in a country with cyrillic or chinese writing systems, but in SV.
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isn't in a country with cyrillic or chinese writing systems, but in SV.
uhm, silicon valley is now dominated by chinese and indians. you walk down the hallways of bay area tech companies and you can go a whole day without hearing any english. not kidding; wish I was.
I'm also seeing lots of bay area job offerings that INSIST you speak chinese in order to get the job. no, its not just travel related jobs; desk jobs for software people are now 'asking' that you speak chinese.
hint hint, nudge nudge. but the
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Ironically enough, that may actually make them technically more compliant with the terms of the H1B program. "We require Native speakers of Mandarin, and can't find any locally... Oh, and we need them to do some programming for us as well".
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isn't in a country with cyrillic or chinese writing systems, but in SV.
uhm, silicon valley is now dominated by chinese and indians.
Therefore, the writing systems are Chinese and Devanagari.
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What kind of software removes files from a local disk without even asking for user confirmation?
How do you make safe backups of things "stored" in the "cloud"?
This is definitely NOT a non-story...
Re: It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Insightful)
"What kind of software removes files from a local disk without even asking for user confirmation?"
Malware.
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I concur. I actually *wanted* iTunes to delete all of the music from my local drive that had been uploaded to the cloud to free up space and had to jump through a few hoops to get it to happen. So the thought of this happening *automatically* is a bit suspect.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:4, Funny)
What kind of software removes files from a local disk without even asking for user confirmation?
rm -f ?
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No, it doesn't. The ToS just say that you can't sue Apple if this happens. It does not say that Apple will delete local files.
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If you RTFA he recovered from backups. It's a non-story.
How can this be a non-story? It's a horrendous bug, and that's the best-case interpretation.
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If you RTFA he recovered from backups. It's a non-story.
How can this be a non-story? It's a horrendous bug, and that's the best-case interpretation.
Depends on your perspective - from the music industry perspective, this isn't a bug, it's a valuable feature.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I agree it's horrendous, but a bug? No, this is an intentional feature! Maybe it proves Apple's proprietary crap is malware, but it sure doesn't stop this from being a feature. That users tolerate being treated that way is shocking to me.
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http://www.imore.com/no-apple-... [imore.com]
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He was lucky to have backups. Not everyone has Time Machine set up and working. Not everyone sets up backups, so this could have been catastrophic, had it been someone less computer savvy.
Re:It can't be said too many times (Score:5, Interesting)
Its a very valid story, for a new generation.
Happened to my kids, and their music. "Hey let's sign up for this new Apple thing for a free 3 months - what's to lose?".
Then, all there previous music disappears... Blame siblings for doing something wrong. Yell and berate dad (me), well just because.
Backups? What backups? Everything's in the Cloud dad. They've never purchased a song on any physical media. Probably recognize the term "MP3", but it's equating "mp3" as a file, that can be copied and actually manipulated? That's grandpa talk.
It's a good lesson.
Of course he'll solve his problem another way - getting his "backups" from another source... Teenagers have no dearth of places to grab, *ahem* "free" music. They've no problem paying for it, if it's convenient, and reasonably priced. Now that that's all broken...
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I thought the story was that the service deleted files without confirmation, mismatched, and recoded the media and he had to take the time and hassle to restore them from a back up and when speaking to support they confirmed that they don't even use the service for that very reason.
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It's a non-story.
Wow, that's how you expect users to be treated? Non-story? I'm so glad I don't own any Apple computers! Look at how bad they can treat users and many are simply trained to expect it.
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Interesting)
You would know if you had read the articles that Apple's terms of use explicitly state that they are going to delete your local files. It was quoted in the article. This was an intended feature along with the inability to recover you music after cancelling the service. This is no bug. It is blatant theft of digital property.
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I've been using Macs since they made vomit noises when they ejected your floppy disk.
And yes, Apple is some sort of exception. They go out of their way to be stupid. They refuse to "play well with others" or "see the big picture". They assume that they are off in their own little universe and that they don't have to deal with anyone else or risk stepping on their toes.
They do their best to lower the bar in terms of end user expectations and pathetic Mac users actually put up with it.
THAT is the real differe
Double-standard (Score:4, Insightful)
If Microsoft had done this, people would be losing their minds. Since it's Apple, it's a non-story, wtf?
Re:Double-standard (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Double-standard (Score:5, Informative)
No it isn't. It is lightening your hard drive. Because it doesn't hold as much data anymore. It is now lighter.
If you had ever used punch cards, you would know that data has a negative mass.
Re:Double-standard (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously. This is no different from some Russian malware encrypting your disk for a ransom.
Re:Double-standard (Score:5, Interesting)
It's an interesting insight into Apple's view of the world. All music must be either ripped (and thus backed up) or bought from iTunes. Therefore, deleting it isn't an issue, you can now stream it and iTunes will re-download it if you have an iPod. There are no other use cases, all other workflows are incorrect. iTunes manages all your audio files, you shouldn't even be looking at them. You click play in iTunes, it plays (subject to internet connection, fees may apply), it works perfectly and in the most intuitive and revolutionary manner possible.
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Exactly why I continue to boycott Apple's products. Their view of the world has not meshed with mine since Woz left the company.
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The ][? What are you a glutton for punishment? At least make it the //e
Re:Double-standard (Score:5, Funny)
It's an interesting insight into Apple's view of the world. All music must be either ripped (and thus backed up) or bought from iTunes. Therefore, deleting it isn't an issue, you can now stream it and iTunes will re-download it if you have an iPod. There are no other use cases, all other workflows are incorrect. iTunes manages all your audio files, you shouldn't even be looking at them. You click play in iTunes, it plays (subject to internet connection, fees may apply), it works perfectly and in the most intuitive and revolutionary manner possible.
Fuck. I can't tell if your trolling, being sarcastic, explaining or being a fanboy. Excellent Post!
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If Microsoft had done this, people would be losing their minds.
Well, at the very least, those of them who stored their minds onto their Windows partitions would.
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RedHat never did this to me.
Maybe the problem isn't with Apple, it is with proprietary software in general? If it didn't even respect your freedom, why would it respect you at all?
Don't call it a "glitch" (Score:5, Insightful)
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But thanks for the guess, for a second I hoped that this could be the source of the problem..
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:no sympathy here. (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple does not "operates sweatshops with suicide netting", Foxconn is contracted by Apple and a lot of other companies to build their stuff.
You can bash Apple all you like, but keep it to facts please.
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They might not "operate" them but they know full well what goes on there and purposely hunt down cheap companies in countries where workers are shamelessly abused to shave some pennies off their bottom line.
While not directly operating them, it shows that they don't give a shit which IMHO makes them complicit. And I'm willing to bet that Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer which means they could have influence to change the situation if they wanted to.
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Sure, sure, but the fact is that the suicide rate in those factories is low; they're simply big enough to be the city of cities, their population is large enough that there will be some suicides. The rate is low, and most of the workers are happy to be there.
A lot of the features like free on-site housing that people in the West complain about are perks. The workers are mostly migrants, they're not from across town. They're not there to live the good life in the city. They don't have their families there wi
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As a "luxury vendor" they could operate their own factories that they have full control over in some 1st world country an they would still make obscene margins.
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Whew. For a second there I was worried Slashdot was becoming something else, more inclusive, even compassionate. But you doubled down on tech elitism and victim blaming, so all is right in the world again.
Newsflash: Most people in the world don't have the tech skills to operate a Windows computer or a Mac properly, they're sure as hell not going to get on board with a linux distro that won't run the software they do their work with. And Apple and others go out of their way to sing the praises of their "
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From an "IT perspective", if you bought a fancy brand name product then the only people that CAN help you with it is the vendor. Otherwise you run the risk of voiding the warranty on your very expensive toy.
Also, you don't need to build a "custom" system yourself. You never have. Not since the old days of Computer Shopper.
On the other hand, if you aren't building from scratch it's good to know what you're buying.
Some basic computer literacy and basic sense of organization (which has nothing to do with tech)
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> Some basic computer literacy and basic sense of organization (which has nothing to do with tech) are both very useful
For technically inclined people I think that's a given. Unfortunately for others, there are a lot of users of computers, tablets and smartphones out there who have little or no literacy because the things are sold as consumer commodity devices. Computers now are cars of 30 years ago in terms of user competence. Grandma can open Chrome but can't interpret a warning on a potentially hos
Engineering (Score:5, Insightful)
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Lots of features are broken out of the box. OS-X has lots of situations where a minor hardware hiccough will do bad things, up to and including bricking your machine requiring a complete OS re-install (if you've encrypted your home folder and shutdown doesn't go perfectly smoothly.)
The assumption here is that they control the hardware, so it will be perfect every time - old news flash: it isn't.
Software should not think for users. (Score:5, Insightful)
iTunes/Mobile Sync has the opposite problem (Score:4, Informative)
I really like how Apple simplifies user interfaces so a monkey could use it. But this has to be backed up with the ability for users to easily drill down and change options if they want. This "one size fits all" attitude which has become the mantra of many Apple fans after Jobs introduced the iPhone (any size screen you want, as long as it's 3.5") is pure poison.
quest for simplicity (Score:2)
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REALLY BAD Design (Score:5, Insightful)
Any well designed system with a delete function should have an undo function.
Any well designed software should have an EASY way to designate which parts of a network it will have access to and which it will have no access to.
Any well designed software should make it very clear what it is doing and get permission, not assume it is granted.
Failing to do all three of these things in the hallmark of incredibly bad software - not being able to undo deletions, requiring full access, and unclear permissions are the kind of thing you expect from a Virus, not Apple
BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Copyright infringement lawsuit? (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, Apple is downloading his music from his machine and uploading it to Cupertino without permission.
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He gave permission. Didn't you read the EULA?
Even better, the MAFIAA can review his music now, because he signed up for that as well.
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Newsflash: The letters EULA is not some kind of magic that makes any kind of shit fly. If you write some retarded EULA, and proceed to do shit on someones computer the "magic" EULA purportedly gives your right to, be prepared to have large swaths of it struck as "unenforceable" and similar, and get out that paddle, because you're way out in the shit creek.
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EULA's aren't binding in a lot of places. In some countries, they're not even considered a form of contract or agreement because the EULA attempts to waive rights which can not be waived, which makes the entire thing void.
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EULA's aren't binding in a lot of places. In some countries, they're not even considered a form of contract or agreement because the EULA attempts to waive rights which can not be waived, which makes the entire thing void.
No, it makes the narrow part of it they're suing you for unenforceable.
Courts do not throw out a whole contract because a part of it is not enforceable. Courts make the narrowest change possible that leaves the agreement in place. If you try to sue them for copyright infringement, and then try to claim it is a violation because you're challenging the permission you gave them, that is going to just piss off the judge. You'll never get any money out of that situation.
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I'm dead serious. Even if Apple plastered that "right" on a EULA i really doubt it'd be enforceable.
Apple's Walled Garden - the Walls growing (Score:3)
...removed the original files from my internal hard drive. REMOVED them. Deleted....
I am sure that buried somewhere deep in Apple's ToS and/or EULA you have given Apple permission to provide this deletion service for you.
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But this is just another symptom of how Apple is taking more and more control of your digital life.
I recently gave away my new AppleTV gen4 because it was a giant step backwards for me. The UI was slow, buggy and generally difficult to use. I've reverted to using my old AppleTV gen2. That is, I'll be using it until I free myself and my media from the Apple media infrastructure completely. Which is odd for me to say, because a few years ago I had started to make a wholesale move to transition completely to Apple products. What happened to that transition? Apple convinced me that it was not a good idea.
Like the OP, Apple has demonstrated to me that it is not an appropriate vendor to help me with my media enjoyment, indeed, Apple has made my attempts to enjoy my media content more of a hassle than a pleasure.
Can't sue - but can press legal charges (Score:5, Insightful)
Their business model involves outright stealing.
No contract allows someone to steal from you, no matter what their lawyer thinks.
Don't sue them, insist on legal charges of theft being placed against them, specifically naming the programmers, lawyers, and CEO of Apple as the responsible party.
Agree to settle if they cancel the terms of their contract.
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You don't settle criminal complaints. If you convince a prosecutor that a crime committed and they file charges, the case becomes The State vs. The Defendant, because The State (aka the people at large) have an interest in law and order.
If you want to call it back at that point, the best you can do is recant your old testimony or try to convince the prosecutor to dismiss the case.
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It is a crime to make a false police report.
The cops will be a bit pissed when they find out you gave permission to take the stuff, and fibbed about the theft.
If you freely give away your software freedom, no crime was committed. Only a foolish act.
Decision Making (Score:2)
When you lay down with a dog.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Holy crap (Score:4, Insightful)
"...iTunes evaluated my massive collection of Mp3s and WAV files, scanned Apple's database for what it considered matches, then removed the original files from my internal hard drive. REMOVED them. Deleted. If Apple Music saw a file it didn't recognize -- which came up often, since I'm a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself -- it would then download it to Apple's database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me"
Wow, what a fabulous process. I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong with this. Oh, wait...
Seriously, the idea that Apple (or any company) could remotely reach into your PC and remove arbitrary files is mind-bending. Yes, I'm sure their EULA "allows" it, but still, WTF??
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The only way this could possibly get better is if Apple started selling his music -- his original compositions originally self-recorded onto local storage and then involuntarily moved to the cloud -- to other Apple Music customers without his consent. That would be the cherry on top of the milkshake.
I wonder if this might actually be happening? Would Apple be that arrogant?
iTunes and not really owning your stuff (Score:2)
I have accumulated a modest Apple music "collection" -- giftcards.
I have an old firewire iPod and an old laptop. Old G4 laptop started to give up the ghost, I want/went to authorize a G4 iMac I got (to use as a music server it's cute).
iMac iTunes can't phone home to authorize the music library I legally purchased. Not stupid, it's no longer safe to browse the internet with this old thing but it
can't even update it's iTunes to allow this basic function.
I am well aware of other means to get my Apple music int
Not normal behavior (Score:5, Interesting)
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Typical Apple user; the company confirmed it, but you still don't believe, because if true it would suck. And Apple can't suck, even if they admitted to the behavior! groooooaaaaaaan
If you don't retain your AUTONOMY! (Score:2)
Things like this will happen to you.
Transferring your tasks, duties and obligations to other entities and enjoy the bliss of being free from these enjoying a certain kind of freedom that really is none.
Not new. (Score:2)
AppleTV used to do this to my TV shows as well. The fact that apple doesn't allow you to redownload a purchase from their store is the reason I stopped using them entirely.
If someone torches your car, it isn't stolen (Score:2)
Same goes for music. They didn't steal it, they torched it.
But seriously (http://www.apple.com/itunes/music/):
iTunes Match
With iTunes Match, we store your music collection in iCloud — even songs you’ve imported from CDs. So you can access it from any of your devices and listen to your library wherever you are. Subscribe to iTunes Match on your Mac, PC, or iOS device for just $24.99 per year.
How did you not know that 'storing your music in the cloud' means that it ain't gonna be stored on your P
This is why I still buy CDs (Score:2)
Laugh all you want, but I still typically buy CDs for this reason (not too mention CD quality is still better than compressed mp3s).
I like using Amazon since I get the physical CD plus instant access to an downloadable mp3 version that it stores under my account. Even if Amazon were to go 'poof' tomorrow, I still have my music collection. Yes, I know I can back up the digital versions, etc., but there's still something to be said for a physical copy that I will always own, that no user agreement change will
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This just shows you know what you're doing, as opposed to those who blindly accept what Apple or the rest spoon feed them.
When I first heard relatives complain about how hard it was to transfer music to/from other "I" devices and all the headaches they went through I knew I had made the correct choice.
I've got around
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A precursor to Farenheit 451 (Score:2)
For about ten years, I’ve been warning people, “hang onto your media. One day, you won’t buy a movie. You’ll buy the right to watch a movie, and that movie will be served to you. If the companies serving the movie don’t want you to see it, or they want to change something, they will have the power to do so. They can alter history, and they can make you keep paying for things that you formerly could have bought. Information will be a utility rather than a possession. Even information that you yourself have created will require unending, recurring payments just to access.”
We all can see where this is heading.
Apple, Amazon, Google, et al will eventually control all media.
They will control all books, magazines, journalism, music, films, etc;
They will control ALL MEDIA period.
It is only a matter of time.
Once the "big three" or "big five" or whoever has this control, just think of how they can(and will) use that control to manipulate peoples views and opionions. They will manipulate history, the publics knowledge of virtually anything they want. They can(and will) "
Friends (Score:2)
Friends don't let friends use iTunes.
Linux on the desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
My computer and my data belong to me. Not to Microsoft. Not to Apple. Not to Google or Oracle or HP or IBM or Samsung. Nobody but me!
Apple Music is WAY broken .... (Score:5, Informative)
Our family is pretty much all on Apple products. We have 3 kids who use iPads or iPhones regularly and my wife and I work in I.T. and both own Mac desktops and laptops. We're also all into music and my wife and I both have large music collections in iTunes on our primary computers.
So when Apple Music was first released with the 3 month free trial, we jumped at the chance. BIG mistake! We set up the "family account" pretty quickly, realizing that would be a better value. Problem was, soon afterwards, my wife's iCloud account essentially locked her out of all of her purchased content of ALL types. On any given Apple device, if she signed in with it, it would work (at most) for a few seconds, and then cancel any updates that were downloading and/or freeze up.
That became a nightmare of putting in multiple support tickets with Apple and not getting any resolution or promised callbacks. Meanwhile, it meant that 10+ years worth of applications, movies and music content she'd paid for was rendered useless. The obvious culprit was Apple Music. The problem only happened after she enabled it on her account and it started trying to sync all of her music content.
At the Genius Bar, a tech spent over an hour trying to help with the issue. He gave her a brand new iPhone 6 AND a brand new iPad, insisting it HAD to be some sort of hardware malfunction or glitch. But nope ... same issue crept up on the new devices shortly after she signed in to them.
At that point, someone in Engineering finally called us back (guess they got irritated the store was giving us thousands of dollars of unnecessary new hardware and not getting anywhere). They promised they were "working on it" and "had an idea where something was wrong". All of a sudden, her ID just started working properly again. No explanation was ever given.
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Should not delete LOCAL copies.
I mean, why would you? They aren't on Apple's storage, they don't cost Apple anything, it's stored on your own laptop or whatever. To delete, then giving ONLY ONE COPY of the user's files - original creations including commercial MP3's - is downright obnoxious behaviour from a piece of software.
It's like Google Drive deleting your My Documents but, don't worry, it's "in the cloud" so you can just download it again *
(*at your own time and expense, and assuming you aren't band
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They also do it with purchased applications. I lived in FL, moved to the UK with my gear, Apple decided to revoke access to everything I purchased through their store; support told me to fuck off - it's in the EULA. Strange that Microsoft, Stream, Sony and Google purchases were fine regardless of where I was.
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Why? Because once they've uploaded your crap and deleted it all, you can't go back. You'd have to replace your whole media library to switch to a different OS. For a lot of users, this means Apple basically owns them.
Re:Also, read thei nstructions (Score:5, Informative)
That is how iCloud music library works. It uploads your files and stores them. If there is a match, you can download a high quality version. If not, it stores your original version. You can download your music at any time, permanently. Nothing has been deleted or 'stolen'.
Did you actually RTFA? He *couldn't* download a copy of rare alternate versions he had; those are gone, replaced with the standard version of tracks, because the band and song names are the same. Nor could he download his own music, the music he wrote and performed and recorded himself, in the full WAV 16 bit/44.1k form he had it in -- only in a lossy format, because Apple converted the WAVs to a lossy format and threw them away.
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It never "serves them right," it is always sad when people give up their software freedom, and are harmed. What is even more sad? Few of them will recognize their mistake, even in hindsight.