David Pogue Reviews the Apple TV 270
necro81 writes "David Pogue of the NY Times has devoted his weekly column to the newly released Apple TV. He also has a video blurb to go with it. He compares it to the XBox360 and Netgear's EVA8000, which also deliver content traditionally trapped in a PC onto a TV set. Apple TV Pros: setup is as easy as can be, it's small and silent form factor will be good for home theaters, and the interface and remote control are intuitive. Cons: HDTV only, playback is limited to formats playable within iTunes, and no internet functionality other than movie trailers."
Shouldn't this be the "iTV"? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Shouldn't this be the "iTV"? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Shouldn't this be the "iTV"? (Score:4, Insightful)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone#Trademark_dis
I guess that in their cost benefit analysis and corporate negotiations with Cisco they found a way to make it pay off, but the iTV fight was not worth the price...
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Pissing off Cisco costs them nothing. Pissing off Elgato costs them goodwill from some Mac users and may cost them a supplier if they cause Elgato to re-focus on non-Mac platforms.
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Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
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Exists (Score:2)
hacked (Score:5, Informative)
Re:hacked (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:hacked (Score:5, Insightful)
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FUD. You are just using Slashdotters' desire for multiple and open formats to perpetuate the FUD that Apple devices only play Apple contents.
Yeah, Apple should support more formats (both audio and video). No argument there. However restricting it to MP-4 and H.264 does not mean it only supports iTMS content only (FWIW, there is no iTMS anymore. It's iTunes Stor
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It already does. I have hundreds of XviD-encoded videos, all of which I am confident will play on AppleTV. They already play in iTunes and on the iPod. How is this possible? Easy. I just chose not to encode them with non-standard features, and not stick them in non-standard formats like AVI or MKV.
I don't think anyone should have to compensate for the fact that open source projects don't devote much energy to ma
Re:hacked (Score:5, Informative)
How in the world is this marked "insightful"? There is so much misinformation in those two sentences its ridiculous.
1. The AppleTV plays MP3, AAC, AIFF, WAV, Apple Lossless, Mpeg4 and H.264 all non DRMd formats.
2. You don't need Quicktime Pro for any AppleTV functionality. You can use Handbrake (free open source software available for Windows, Macs, and Linux) to rip DVDs to either MPEG or H.264
3. You don't even need QTPro to re-encode into an AppleTV format. There are plenty of free tools that can convert from Divx to Mpeg. If you're using a Mac, you download the codecs for QT, and you import the Divx movie into iTunes (Movie2Itunes) and then choose the "Convert to iPod format.
Interesting. (Score:2)
Re:Interesting. (Score:4, Informative)
Apparently they also enabled ssh. My speculation: They reconfigured launchd and the firewall to allow ssh connections to sshd, and presumably they configured the local user account (whatever it is) to allow public-key authentication so they don't have to futz around with any passwords. All of that can be done by simply editing text configuration files.
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Upgrading an embedded MacOS install so that it has a respectable set of video decoders?
or
Re-Transcoding thousands of hours of video content?
How long do you think it will be by the time this thing chews through my 2.5TB of videos?
HDTV (component 480i counts) only? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean OH MY GOD APPLE I LOVE THIS YOU HAVE REINVENTED MY TV! It now has YOUR STORE ATTACHED TO IT!
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I also should have noted that the 360 costs just as much. And the hard drive on the appletv isn't much bigger, 40 gig isn't much when you're talking HDTV movies at 7-9 gigs-ish each (based on my 360 marketplace experience).
Also, Apple doesn't say (they never do... PART OF THEIR HIP MYSTIQUE!!). I see one single lonely USB port on the back. Can that be to attach storage, or just for iPod syncing? I know I stuck a fat-formatted 80 gig usb drive fi
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Whilst the drive is out you can also install a SSH server so you can get access to the filesystem. The username/password on the AppleTV is frontrow/frontrow. I guess you could install Apache or Postgresql or whatever here as well, assuming the BSD layer is intact. People are working on getting the USB port fully active, and remote desktop active.
And via the SSH server you can install div
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"
Are you supposed to have all your purchased video on your Mac (sold seperately), and leave it running non-stop?"
Works with PC's as well. They ahve been very clear about that.
It is designed to stream content, not long term storage of content. I will make a prediction here: future version will have a larger HD...I know, it's a freaking revelation.
It also plays anything you can import into iTunes.
This is a minor issue for m
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It didn't take long for someone to start bashing Apple or mock its users. Jeez..
Besides Apple TV seems to be easily modifiable (Probably more so than your xbox media center).
Anyway, Apple delivers a product that works AS ADVERTISED. Nobody is forcing you to buy one. If you need DVR, Tivo has a product for you.
Or just maybe, you can have a media server in another room and just use the Apple TV to view the content remotely (and without the noise of cooling fans). I think it works out of the box this way
Re:HDTV (component 480i counts) only? (Score:5, Informative)
I had an SDTV that I bought in 2000 had 480i component, and that TV was not capable of progressive or HD video.
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"Cons: HDTV only"
He's saying that the Apple TV will support *normal def* with component, it already supports 720P out-of-the-box.
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It only supports 720p24. Broadcast HD is 720p60... you're looking at 1/3rd the framerate of current HD programming in the US.
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For you, that's probably true at this point in time, but the very fact that you have a hacked xbox media center and are reading Slashdot puts you out on the fringe of the target market. Apple is very good at delivering products that non-techies can use, and it turns out that there are a lot of non-techies out there.
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Not HDTV only (Score:2)
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Heh.
+5 Slavish Adoration In Face of Technical and Usability Deficiencies
hmm (Score:5, Informative)
Re:hmm (Score:4, Funny)
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Geeks have been hooking up their PCs to their home entertainment systems since the late 90s, so excuse my while I yawn at your XBox hack. But what we haven't seen yet is a successful product that does this for the average consumer in an elegant manner, which is why Apple TV is interesting. That is, to see how well it works and if it succeeds or not.
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XBMC is great (I retired my own XBMC once I got a 1080p TV), but get your fanboy head out of your ass and accept the fact that it has limitations once you move up into real HD.
Eh (Score:2, Interesting)
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Depending on how cheaply you can get your Internet access and how much TV you watch, buying a season pass on iTunes could wind up being cheaper than paying for cable.
Unfortunately for me, the only reliable broadband in my area is from Comcast, who charges you an extra $15/month for broadband if you don't get it bundled with their $15/month basic cable.
Re:Eh (Score:5, Funny)
I guess I spend too much time at work .... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm actually surprised that Netgear chose the name, since it's blatantly similar to this [hp.com].
What's the point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Easier because it does less
Both of these points were very salient to the iPod's success. Apple expects them to be key drivers for the AppleTV as well.
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i just don't see the point. there's other products out there (like tivo) that do a lot more. i just don't see the point in buying one.
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What is the point of an iPod when the Creative Nomad was cheaper, in 2001?
iPod was smaller (same as AppleTV vs TiVo.)
iPod was easier to use (There is no need to schedule, program, or search the AppleTV. Just click and watch.)
The point YOU keep making is there are more features on the TiVo.
The point I am making is that those extra features aren't important. The person who wants an AppleTV doesn't want to "know the time and date", don't
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Did you consider then that most of the market did not?
Are you surprised, now, at how popular the iPod is?
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Apple then released the iPod and now there are about 1 iPod for every 10 people.
As of March last year the ENTIRE market of DVRs was only about 9% penetration. Put another way, more people own iPods than DVRs, much less TiVos. There is still room for Apple to carve a niche, even if it is only 10% of the population.
You say TiVo is very easy to use. I've used it; yes it is easy, but compared to iTunes, not easy ENOUGH.
http://www.businessweek.c [businessweek.com]
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The point I am making is that those extra features aren't important.
They are important when you're dealing with video rather than music.
The really important thing that either Apple failed to realize or just discounted for whatever reason is that while there has always been something of a defacto standard in music formats (mp3), there has never been a similar standard in video formats. They are now trying to impose h.264 as a standard, while
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the tivo is cheaper if you don't pay for the subscription, which is not needed to record shows. you just need to know the time and date of what you want to do and you don't get the guide feature. tivo's interface is extremely easy to use.
So you can either have a crappy interface that makes you manually look up and program in the times, or you can pay an expensive subscription. No thanks. My PVR lets me choose any subscription program guide I want, including Web based, one that are free with a few banner ads. Also, with the Tivo you need a Cable TV subscription to get the shows in the first place, while with the AppleTV you buy the individual shows you want (more granularity but higher prices per show although at there are no ads.)
i just don't see the point. there's other products out there (like tivo) that do a lot more. i just don't see the point in buying one.
The A
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That's a pretty transparent fallacy.
Since the Apple box only plays iTunes store content, its actual cost is as high as your desire to watch new media.
Only if you use it as sparingly as an old lady does ice skates will it be "cheaper."
2) Easier because it does less
True, in the same way that the mentally deficient are more efficient cogitators because they think less.
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Re:What's the point? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll admit I'm mystified why they didn't make it a general DVR at the same time. My best guess is that it's coming but that the software wasn't ready yet; Apple's got very high standards for such things. But I haven't heard any complaints from TiVo customers, and my limited experience with them has been pleasant.
On the other hand I've heard much bitching about Unbox. Maybe Apple felt that they could get ahead of that and make people prefer to download rather than record; they'd rather sell you Lost for $2 than record it for free. They're certainly being way forward-looking by aiming at HDTVs, but they're not selling HDTV content yet, so they seem to be premature or out of touch.
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i've had tivo now since christmas and i have to say that i absolutely love it and can't imagine watching tv without it.
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Me also.
But I am in HISTERICAL URGE to get one... $300 is really cheap for a PC with STUNNING FORM/FACTOR, quite modern 1GHz processor, 256MB DDR, quite decent GPU and standard hard drive (can be exchanged for bigger one when you need it). The only pain is only HD (connector) output and optical audio output.
I guess *when* it will be aviable for me (in normal retail stores so somebody can sent it over
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It's an iPod without a battery, but with HDTV out. Instead of a cable, it uses wireless to sync with iTunes.
It does what the iPod does - lets you move media that's stored on your computer to other places. Instead of pluggin in headphones and toting it around with you like the iPod, you plug AppleTV into your TV sit on the couch.
Got it now?
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i still don't see the point of apple tv.
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MPEG4/AVC (Score:2)
I sincerely hope that Apple TV would succeed - if only to additionally indirectly support MP4 format wider adoption.
It's not the best, but among other formats it is only one which is open, free and platform independent.
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Yeah, well there are patents. And ISO terms.
But compare that to term's of M$ Windows Media Services [microsoft.com] and accompanying DRM cruft. And as you might have guessed M$ will not give you patent indemnification too.
Thanks to patents, hardly anything can be called "free"...
Huh? (Score:3)
Sounds worse then a regular TV, am I missing something? Whats the big deal with this thing?
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I know! And the iPod has no wireless and less space than a Nomad! They'll never catch on.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
So the odds that this product will be a big winner are not that high if Apple's overall performance is considered.
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Here is what is going to make it worth it.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Video Podcasting.
There are already a plethera of great video podcasts available, and with AppleTV you can sit and watch them in your livingroom, not on a computer or 2" ipod video screen.
Sure, a bit of effort every day, you can download the same content and burn it to DVD, or get it to play some other way on your TV, but with AppleTV and a smart iTunes playlist, you can have a couple hours of content that's new and interesting and commercial-free every single night.
This isn't a strike at Tivo, this is a stike at Prime Time programming of all kinds.
it's all about the 'pods? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now in theory you can take the signal from your computer, and send it to the TV. Of course, you might have to buy some of your own cables/get hardware. Thus Apple's solution. Provide a simple box that takes care of all of that for you. It's a small box that just magically streams all your content (across your various computers) to a single point, which can be hooked up to a TV.
BUT, as a consumer this doesn't make sense. I like the idea of picking what shows I want to watch, but I actually don't want to own most of them. If the Apple TV allowed me 'rent' a show, I would buy one in a second. Or if I could pay a monthly fee (say: 10 shows subscription), again, I'd totally bite. But paying premium to own something I plan on only watching once has absolutely no appeal to me. It's too expensive. It's still cheaper in the long run to just get cable if you go above 4-5 shows (daily show, colbert report, myth busters, robot chicken
I don't see Apple doing this anytime soon, as it seems to go against their current business model. So instead they seem to get some strange compromise. Something almost useful
Maybe Apple has something up their sleeves. I keep waiting, but it isn't looking too likely...
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...as a consumer this doesn't make sense. I like the idea of picking what shows I want to watch, but I actually don't want to own most of them. If the Apple TV allowed me 'rent' a show, I would buy one in a second. Or if I could pay a monthly fee (say: 10 shows subscription), again, I'd totally bite. But paying premium to own something I plan on only watching once has absolutely no appeal to me. It's too expensive.
Content is the hard thing here. In order to really move to IP based television (which would bring many advantages) the incumbents of content creation need to be persuaded or replaced. I remember reading somewhere that $3 a month from every adult American would be enough money to finance the creation and distribution on DVD of every currently produced TV show in the US. So something like $10 a month for permanent access to all the television show you like would not be an unreasonable rate if production wa
I wonder how many other things Pogue got wrong? (Score:2)
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Honestly, the 360 should really only come up in the context of "What does apple TV offer to existing xbox 360 owners?" The answer seems to range from 'nothing' to 'quite a bit' depending on if you're already an itunes user.
Summary wrong: Apple TV doesn't support just HDTV (Score:3, Insightful)
Summary: Cons: HDTV only
Article: The heartbreaker for millions, however, is that Apple TV requires a widescreen TV -- preferably an HDTV. It doesn't work with the squarish, traditional TVs that many people still have.
Apple TV will still work if you don't have an HDTV. It just requires a widescreen TV.
Re:Summary wrong: Apple TV doesn't support just HD (Score:2)
I think Apple missed the ball on this (Score:3, Interesting)
By leaving out the tuner, they left out two of the four killer apps for a set top box: pausing live TV and season passes for time shifting TV shows. Of the other two killer apps (streaming content from the internet and from one's private network) one is a bit of a pain because you have to go to a dedicated workstation to buy movies off of the internet. As of right now, I'd rather buy a Mac mini with an EyeTV dongle and add DVD playback and a tv tuner for just over double the cost of the AppleTV.
Too bad I can't afford to do that.
Not that I'm arguing that this product won't be successful. It just won't be as successful as it could have been. I'll wager, though, that Apple will add the missing feature by the end of this calendar year.
Aargh (Score:2)
It took me three reads to realize there was a spelling error somewhere in there which made the sentence absolutely incomprehensible. Please
what not even... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Give me a call when it plays my MYTHTV recordin (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Give me a call when it plays my MYTHTV recordin (Score:2)
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Perversely enough, homebrew PVR users are proabably Apple's biggest potential userbase for this thing. This includes MythTV users as well as users of SageTV, WinMCE and other PVRs.
This is a problem with devices of this kind in general. You can't just setup a windows file share somewhere and put files on it. You need to futz with some speciality server software.
This thing doesn't even play the ful
If you have MYTHTV? (Score:2)
How about mounting and playing DVD ISOs? (Score:2)
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But in general, yes, I agree, DVR functionality is sorely needed, or at least a better, clearer way to turn, say, the iMac in my den into a DVR. I've been trying to sort out for a month what EyeTV/ Miglia add-on I need for my cable setup and which is the most compatible with AppleTV/iTunes. The door is WIDE open for 3rd party vendor to come charging thr
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Functionality flaws (Score:2)
The opposite problem (Score:2)
The only problem is that it only plays the movies if they are WMV. Everything else is perfect, it even plays MP3 and AAC's fine.
I would love an AppleTV, but that's a lot of money for just a bit more functionality than w
Bit more? (Score:2)
I don't use wmv, and I have almost never have needed it. Theraare a couple of porn sites that use it, but even the porn industry is moving back away from it.
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Has your family considered an intervention?
Re:The Apple deal (Score:5, Informative)
How about Bonjour, Darwin Streaming Server, XNU Kernel, Launchd Services and the forthcoming iCal Server which might help the OSS community finally have a competitor to Exchange.
"Apple loves to use OSS... What OSS has it released? Why isn't OS X open sourced?"
Oh....sure.... apple should open source their whole operating system...that makes a lot of sense for them and their shareholders. You sir are a moron or a troll.
Re:The Apple deal (Score:5, Interesting)
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Also, Apple recently ditched their own "Apple Public Source License" (or whatever it was called) and started releasing everything under the Apache license.
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I don't know you from Eddie, but I'd be willing to bet that the answer is somewhere north of a metric fuckload [apple.com] more than you've released.
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