iTunes User Sues Apple Over Lock-In 975
GregChant writes "It seems like Apple can also be at the receiving end of a lawsuit, too: Californian Thomas Slattery filed suit against Apple because 'Apple has turned an open and interactive standard into an artifice that prevents consumers from using the portable hard drive digital music player of their choice'. With over 200 million songs sold, and Apple controlling over 80% of the hard drive digital audio player market, is this just a case of someone just trying to cash in on Apple's success? Or is this genuinely an issue of buyer lock-in and monopolistic practices?"
Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
The reality is that Apple has placed copy protection on the songs sold through the iTMS as the mandate of the record industry just as Napster and Microsoft has with their music formats. If you will remember, iTunes came out before the iTMS and any songs sold through the iTMS. Therefore, if you obtain your music somewhere else other than the iTMS, if you chose to use iTunes (nothing that says you have to use iTunes either) you can use any portable hard drive music source that runs OS X or Windows. There is nothing saying that you cannot do this on any device you can find that will runs those alternatives. Apple is not forcing anybody to purchase songs from the iTMS. Quite the contrary, they have made iTunes flexible enough that it can play
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Informative)
Encoding twice causes the MP3 you create to be _much_ lower quality. AAC and MP3 both work by removing information from the sound stream that you can't hear; if that information has already been removed by an AAC encoder, the MP3 encoder's job becomes much harder, and so to fit the song into the desired bitrate it has to take more information away from the song. You will hear a lot more compression artifacts on songs that have been compressed twice.
This is why Apple needs to offer losslessly compressed songs. I personally would be willing to pay up to a quarter more (to cover the extra bandwidth that it would take to transfer them), because AAC is useless to me.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
Ahh yes, common wisdom. IOW prejudice without any proof. I'm sure you can point me to any study actualy supporting that claim.
AAC and MP3 both work by removing information from the sound stream that you can't hear; if that information has already been removed by an AAC encoder, the MP3 encoder's job becomes much harder, and so to fit the song into the desired bitrate it has to take more information away from the song. You will hear a lo
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
try Audio Lunchbox [audiolunchbox.com]
not only are they high-quality mp3s and oggs, but they actually have good music that doesn't come from the RIAA.
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
The guy suing Apple needs to stfu; there's no *right* to open music standards. Apple can make their system as proprietary as they want. Don't like it? Don't use it. Nothing forces you to purchase from iTMS.
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know if you're trolling or what, but burning the music to CD doesn't degrade the quality. You lose quality if you burn to CD then re-rip to some lossy format.
When you buy the song from iTMS, the quality has already been "degraded" from a CD. Burning to an audio disc yields the same music as playing it any other way.
Convert iTunes file to mp3 (Score:5, Informative)
Just download hymn.exe, faad.exe, lame.exe in the same folder as this VB script. Name it something.vbs. Drag your iTunes
'coded by man on street
Set oFs = CreateObject ("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
Set oShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
Set id3Options = CreateObject("Scripting.Dictionary")
binDir = oFs.GetFile(WScript.ScriptFullName).ParentFolder & "\"
workingDir = binDir & "working\"
decodedDir = binDir & "decoded\"
id3Options.Add "title", "--tt"
id3Options.Add "artist", "--ta"
id3Options.Add "album", "--tl"
id3Options.Add "date", "--ty"
id3Options.Add "track", "--tn"
id3Options.Add "genre", "--tg"
makeDirectory(workingDir)
makeDirectory(decoded Dir)
For Each arg in WScript.Arguments
walkArguments(arg)
Next
removeDirectory(workingDir)
Sub convertFile(fileName)
Set protectedFile = oFs.GetFile(fileName)
albumName = protectedFile.ParentFolder.Name
albumDir = decodedDir & albumName & "\"
makeDirectory(albumDir)
protectedFile.Copy(workingDir)
trackName = oFs.GetBaseName(protectedFile)
return1 = oShell.Run(quote(binDir & "hymn") & " " & quote(workingDir & trackName & ".m4p"), 1, TRUE)
return2 = oShell.Run(quote(binDir & "faad") & " " & quote(workingDir & trackName & ".m4a"), 1, TRUE)
Set LaunchedApp = oShell.Exec(quote(binDir & "faad") & " -i " & quote(workingDir & trackName & ".m4a"))
tagInfo = LaunchedApp.StdErr.ReadAll
For Each tag in id3Options.Keys
tagSwitches = tagSwitches & " " & id3Options.Item(tag) & " " & quote(getTag(tag, tagInfo))
Next
rem return3 = oShell.Run(quote(binDir & "lame") & tagSwitches & " " & quote(workingDir & trackName & ".wav") & " " & quote(albumDir & trackName & ".mp3"), 1, TRUE)
return3 = oShell.Run(quote(binDir & "lame") & " --ignore-tag-errors " & tagSwitches & " " & quote(workingDir & trackName & ".wav") & " " & quote(albumDir & trackName & ".mp3"), 1, TRUE)
End Sub
Sub walkArguments(arg)
If oFs.FolderExists(arg) Then
Set thisDir = oFs.GetFolder(arg)
Set subDirs = thisDir.SubFolders
Set theseFiles = thisDir.Files
If subDirs.Count > 0 Then
For Each dirName in subDirs
walkArguments(dirName)
Next
End If
For Each fileName in theseFiles
walkArguments(fileName)
Next
ElseIf oFs.FileExists(arg) Then
If oFs.GetExtensionName(arg) = "m4p" Then
convertFile(arg)
End If
End If
End Sub
Sub makeDirectory(dirName)
If Not oFs.FolderExists(dirName) Then
oFs.CreateFolder(dirName)
End If
End Sub
Sub removeDirectory(dirName)
If oFs.FolderExists(dirName) Then
oFs.GetFolder(dirName).Delete
End If
End Sub
Function quote(myString)
quote = Chr(34) & myString & Chr(34)
End Function
Function getTag(frameName, tagString)
Set oRegEx = New RegExp
oRegEx.Pattern = frameName & ".+\n"
frameNameAndValue = oRegEx.Execute(tagString).Item(0).Value
frameValue = Mid(frameNameAndValue, InStr(frameNameAndValue, ":") + 2)
getTag = Left(frameValue, Len(frameValue) - 2) 'Strip CR/LF
End Function
Re:Convert iTunes file to mp3 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
Lossless formats do not suffer this problem. You can go from FLAC to SHN an infinite number of times without losing anything at all. CD audio also falls into this category ("for absolutely all practical purposes," just to please you pedants).
Good job getting modded insightful for a load of horseshit, though.
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Interesting)
Just like you lost quality when the sound studio mixed the album and encoded it to put it on a CD. The only way you're going to get a perfect reproduction with all the clarity is to go listen to a live concert. Even then you have to deal with noise on the speaker wire, distortions caused by a bad mic, or the occasional bleed from a radio station.
I agree that the solution isn't ideal, but he cannot make the claim that he was "forced to buy an iPod." Sounds to me like he just didn't do his homework before he downloaded iTunes. I wonder if he bought a DVD player to watch VHS movies?
The lawsuit isn't over sound quality, and it's no secret that the buy-burn-rip method will allow this guy to do what he claims he can't. Hopefully he'll get nowhere with this.
Re:Bogus (Score:2, Interesting)
Indeed. However, even if the RIAA didn't require DRM, Apple would still be pushing DRM [eff.org]. From the EFF:
Apple's idea of DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
What nobody seems to realize is that Apple wants to take on the role of 'the [music/show/media] business' by providing next generation tools and services to link artists with consumers. They BELIEVE in DRM, but they believe they can mediate the degree and kind of DRM better than the music/film giants.
If you look at how the puzzle is taking shape, an artist will be able to create art using Apple tools (Garage Band to Logic), market them using Apple services (iTMS), and sell them to Apple customers (which is just about EVERYONE when it comes to music and iPods). This is all planned to be COMPLETELY independent from the music industry. What works for music now will work for video later. Apple is a product development company via VERTICAL INTEGRATION. They find basic components that aren't being fully exploited (like DSPs), and they cobble together whatever else is available to force that component to serve user experience in (hopefully) some life-altering way. That is what "Insanely Great" means to Apple in practical terms.
DRM is a tool to incite artists to want to put their work out through iTMS instead of the traditional routes.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no grudging involved. It's a business relationship. And in a business relationship it is not beneficial to say, We would screw over the other party in a second if we could. Apple should not say that they would love to remove all DRM since that would place them in an antagonistic position with the record labels they have to rely on for content. I suspect they would indeed eliminate the DRM if they could sinc
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
with
or
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Funny)
But you need to remember that Apple are the good guys; Microsoft is the devil. That's how Slashdot is run.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't have a problem with Apple being able to dominate any market, as long as it is not in an anti-competive way. Not licensing their protected AAC format is anti-competitive. At least MS will license their DRMed windows audio to anyone who wants it.
That is an opinion not fact. Yes, I d
Bogus is right, but not for Apple (Score:3, Interesting)
Your suggestion that Apple's current practices are anti-competitive doesn't hold water with me.
Apparently, the infamous French Competition Council agrees with this opinion. [extremetech.com] They claim that the iPod plays several formats of music, of which FairPlay/AAC is
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Interesting)
So? There's nothing illegal about being anti-competitive when you're not a monopoly, and Apple isn't one.
Besides, anyone can interoperate with the iPod all they want, just use MP3, AIFF, or WAV (or AAC). Should Apple be forced to open a format for no particular legal reason other than their success? I don't see any other company in an open market being forced to let the competition use their technology. Apple is not in a monopolistic position,
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple is not a monopoly in any market or market segment. MP3 players? No, they make a couple popular ones, but they are barely the overall majority and have no control whatsoever. Online music? No, they don't control the market at all. They have the most popular service, but does Apple's ser
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
So you're telling me that Any software manufacturer should be forced to allow any company to play its content? Why can't we sue Sony for only allowing Playstations to play Playstation games?
You don't seem to be able to differentiate between a company exercising control over its own
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
So the first question must be, is Apple a monopoly in the particular market? Before that, as somebody else pointed out, we must answer if on-line music is a distinct market from the music market at large. Only when both answers are "yes" does the question of anti-competitive behavior eve
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
No monoploy, no leverage, no crime. (Score:3, Insightful)
apple entered two different markets and rose to dominance in both. They did not levergae a monoloply in one market to gain in another.
moreover it's dubious they have a monopoly. It all depends upon how you define the market. Does apple have a monopoly on digital music players. No, if you consider CD players. Does apple h
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, they have a giant market share, but they are not a monopoly.
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
You had it going till you got here. This is, quite simply, false and you know it. You may not like MS, but you don't have to lie to justify how you feel.
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
The BBC coverage of the story [bbc.co.uk] makes the distinction clearer.
The essence of the complaint is that once you have bought music from iTMS, you can't play it back on normal MP3 players, only on an iPod. The allegation is that this is illegally extending Apple's monopoly of selling downloads into a monopoly on portable music players, not the other way round.
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
This is, of course, stupid, as you already know this when you buy music from iTMS in the first place. Just as you would know that software you buy for a Mac won't run on a PC.
If you think of iTunes' m4p files as software, I think this is pretty clear. If you think of them as "music", then it's hard to see how Apple has a monopoly, as they don't have exclusive rights to the majority of what they sell.
If "music" is the product, you can buy it elsewhere (and elsewhere online), but if "music for iTunes & iPods" is what they're selling, and I think it's always been pretty clear that this is the case, then it isn't an open market, and they have no reason to make it into one.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
That's their job.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Informative)
On the other hand, all the players that support FairPlay come from one manufacturer, and this manufacturer actively refuses to license FairPlay and combats all attempts to build interoperable devices.
Re:Bogus (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I will sue Microsoft and whatnot companies in a giant suit for them NOT to be supported in the leading edge's Portable music player (iPods). I want to buy songs from wal-mart but it comes only in WMA and can't be played on iPods nor even thrown on a CD. heck, I haven't tried playing music on the WMP for Mac but I have doubts this will work.
I think I will sue the Canadian Gov't for their services not to work on Safari, only one IE of particular version without the Sun JRE plug
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Interesting)
If Apple would just license FairPlay, people/companies wouldn't be complaining. As it is now, Apple wants to keep FairPlay locked up to lock customers into the iPod and iTMS. I really don't see how this is any different that what MS does that gets all the Apple fans screaming against MS.
iTMS = optional (Score:5, Insightful)
No argument here. But I don't think all the complaining is "fair". Some is. Some is just sour grapes. Tough luck for now, I seyz.
The iTMS is an optional service offered to users of iTunes and/or iPod. That's it. Users of iTunes and/or iPod have a myriad of non-Apple ways to load music into the app and/or device.
If you want full control over your digitally downloaded media, you'd better go knock on the RIAA and MPAA's doors, not Apple's. It's been well documented that Jobs brought the music industry to this point kicking and screaming. Requiring Apple to police the use of their DRM iTMS files on every 3rd-party device is asking way too much (at least for now, likely). What happens if a licensee of FairPlay slips up and allows the DRM to be more easily defeated that it is now? What happens if they do it deliberately?
You'll have to cite a similar MS situation that we non-MS users have yelled and screamed about. I can think of many non-similar situations:
* Marketing a supposedly "compatible" office suite on another platform when said company is in full control of the closed document standard and having it not be 100% compatible. They certainly work better together now, but the damage was done long ago when they didn't so well. Should we fault them? Maybe not as a money-making company. But Apple offers no deception about how you can get music on your iPod and what the optional iTMS works with (and doesn't).
* Leveraging OS dominance in the browser wars coupled with poor standards adherence. This would have never been a big issue if they would have bothered making IE feature compatible cross-platform or make it render emerging standards *well*. They didn't. Should they have? Well, this year certainly will tell with Firefox on the rise. Compare to iTunes. Apple made them *identical* on both platforms. iPod works *identical* on both platforms. If people switch to Apple machines because of using iTunes and iPod, it's not because of enhanced features or performance on OS X vs. Windows.
* There are plenty of other examples where the dominance of Windows is guaranteed in the near term because of exclusive, closed apps/file types/"standards". Access and Outlook come to mind immediately, but I'm sure others can cite many others from the enterprise sector. You can't compare this to an optional service that is "locked" into using Apple's technology.
And yes, even as an iTunes/iPod user I'd like to use my music purchased from iTMS more freely than I can now--*legally*. I'd like to share my iTMS albums over iTunes with my co-workers, for example, but I can't right now. Their machine would have to use up one of my authorization slots. I'd like the option to convert to other formats without going to CD.
But the fact is, I can't grouse about the way Apple has implemented all this. Technically, it is fantastic and nearly bug-free. The features provided are innovative and have lead me to use my music in ways I never did 5 years ago. I haven't usually found MS technology to work this well or be so inspiring, even when I'm using Windows.
Re:I agree... (Score:5, Informative)
No. It is not illegal until a company leverages their monopoly to prevent others from fairly competing. If your monopoly is fairly maintained because you have the best product and consumers simply prefer to purchase your product, then all is fair and no laws have been broken.
Re:I agree... (Score:2, Insightful)
Locked out Real after Real cracked Apple's Fairplay code violating the license. Sure, any company would have done the same.
Remember in both Europe and America right clicking on "download now!" is considered too great a barrier to entry into the market place. Burning a CD, let alone re-ripping it, is significantly more involved.
Let's see, using iTunes it takes all of three clicks to burn a CD. If you want to do it in one click, then you pay for the conve
Re:I agree... (Score:4, Insightful)
Same old arguments man... As if microsoft didn't have a "license" to protect DOS back when they illegally changed the API's.
Don't get me started. Real didn't break any legally binding "licenses" if any at all. They simply allowed their music to be played on the iPod. Period.
Re:I agree... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I agree... (Score:3, Funny)
Wow! You mean I don't need to buy a CD writer or any blanks? This iTunes thing must be wonderful.
Re:I agree... (Score:3, Informative)
If Real had reverse engineered Apple's software and wrote their own code to run on the iPod (or any facsimile), that would be one thing. The problem was that Real cracked Apple's Fairplay code and violated the license. This is what got them in hot water and how Apple (like any other company) would have protected themselves from somebody else wanting a free ride on their back.
This is an almost IDENTICAL practice to what mi
Um, hey.. (Score:5, Funny)
Support freedom of music! (Score:4, Insightful)
Mr Slattery called himself an iTunes customer who "was also forced to purchase an Apple iPod" if he wanted to take his music with him to listen to.
While I cannot comment on the legality of them bundling and tying the device to their store I can certainly say that the less tech savvy are forced to use an iPod if they would like to listen to their iTunes music on the go.
The second you download your first album and you realize that you can't play it on a portable device other than a CD player you wonder if you shouldn't just go out and get that iPod so that you can continue to get your music legally... Most people would think it really sucks to pay $10 for an album and then not be able to listen on the go without burning to a CD and then re-ripping to WAV>MP3.
It's not that I didn't expect this to happen with Apple though. They have always promoted lock-in. For now it is working as a benefit. Will they continue to be the leaders in the market though? Only time will tell if people begin to shy away from being forced into using their formats and their hardware. Sadly, in this day and age I have little faith in the consumer and their knowledge and desire to have freedom of choice.
I know it is bad form to go against Apple on Slashdot (especially with the editors apparently being paid off to put iPod on the front page at least once a day) but why can't we all be against them promoting a format that locks you into their hardware? Aren't we all for open standards that works across multiple platforms? Just because their device is sleek, sexy, and "the in thing" we should all just stop and pay homage? Maybe once MSFT opens the DOC format or switches it over to XML then Apple can open up AAC and we can all be happy?
Me? I'm going to stick to downloading and listening to my *free* and *legal* music from etree [etree.org], FurthurNET [furthurnet.org], etc, and convert it over to MP3 to listen on the go. I just wish that everyone else would too. At least I know I am not supporting *multiple* monopolies when I listen to the freely distributable music that I do.
YMMV.
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:5, Insightful)
but in order for this to be monopolistic wouldnt apple have to have a monopoly on the digital music market?
its not like iTunes is the only place to get music... there are plenty of other online sources with different DRM that might suit this customers needs. hell he could just buy CDs like people used to back in the day from that small organization... what were they called... the record companies?
Even if apple has a monopoly on MP3 players (which they dont) they let you get your music from anywhere you want. This lawsuit is completely frivolous.
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:2)
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:3, Interesting)
Nobody "forced" anybody (Score:2, Insightful)
"Honestly, judge, I was forced to buy and iPod! Oh the misery!"
Give me a break.
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:2)
The only thing you can not easily do with iTunes is to listen to the songs on a non-Apple mp3 player. And, for those who are even slightly tech-savy this is a fairly non-trivial thing to do. It takes 1 CDRW and about 8 minutes a CD. Or you can use whatever software is available to crack the DRM.
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:2)
I believe you meant "trivial"...
And for me, I use a "virtual" CD-R that writes to an
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:2)
Apple can open up AAC and we can all be happy?
Interestingly enough I buy most of my music in AAC format, but not from Apple. The standard is open and much nicer than mp3 in my opinion. Files have the same quality with smaller file sizes; drastically smaller for files that are just speaking (like audio books). All my files work just fine with itunes, and play fine on ipods (although i do not own one myself). If Apple were to cheaply license Fairplay, I would be happier about the state of the industry
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:5, Insightful)
What do you mean with "open up AAC"? The files from iTunes are restricted because Apple chose to (or, on behalf of the music industry, had to) add DRM to AAC. That has nothing to do with AAC itself. If you mean "open" in the sense of open standard without licensing fees, this is beyound Apple's abilities, since they don't own AAC. They just licensed it from Fraunhofer et. al.
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:2)
You mean like you can with iTunes by burning/ripping a CD? Either way you're transcoding.
Get off your high horse about this people. For legal downloadable music, DRM is entrenched and here to stay. I say be glad that the dominant form is this lenient and easily "breakable". This guy truly had NO CHOICE whatsoever in the matter. He really couldn't do ANYTHING but purchase an iPod. People truly make me sick sometimes...
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:5, Insightful)
That's nothing... if you go out and buy a copy of Half-Life 2, suddenly you find you have to buy a Windows PC to use it! Sure, maybe you can go through the hassle of Linux and Wine and Cedega and whatever, but it really sucks.
I should sue Microsoft! Oh, wait...
Re:Support freedom of music! (Score:3, Informative)
Do you even have an iPod? Because that's exactly how mine works. True the copying takes place inside of iTunes, but since that's where all my music is anyways why would I want to use the Finder?
Instead, Apple choice to "prefer" AAC encoded files and create the ITMS could be seen as a market limiting choice, as could it's decision to li
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Or better yet (Score:3, Funny)
{
throw new SlashbotAngryFitException();
}
else
{
Slashbots.Fud.Spew();
while(true)
{
Defense defend = new Defense();
defend.ToTheDeath(vendor);
ButtKiss praise = new ButtKiss();
if(RMS.IsScragglyOldHippy)
{
praise.BendOverFor(RMS);
}
if(GPL.IsFashionableForGeeksToDefend && GPL.NeverRead && GPL.IsViral)
{
praise.KissArse(GPL);
}
if(Linux.Creator == Linux && Linus.IsHumble && Linux.IsFashionableForGeeksToUse && MSFT == TEHSUX
Re:a test... (Score:4, Funny)
"And thus, in AD2005, because of one line of unchecked code, Slashdot began flaming all vendors apart from Apple. What seemed irrelevant at first had huge implications for mankind as it paved the way for Apple's domination of all things electronic, with all major non-Apple vendors being virtually extinct by the second decade of the 21st century. As we saw in the introduction, it was Apple who first introduced self-regulating computers in an effort to relieve the user from the chores of setting up and configuring his machine. It is because of Apple's "you don't need to know how it works" policy and its success at making the machines do exactly what the user wanted, without any requirement for the user to have any knowledge whatsoever about the machine's working, that we today do not understand how Our Masters operate.
But before we review this in more detail, we will be concentrating on the Google Grid [robinsloan.com] in the next chapter"
-Excerpt of Chapter 5 of 'From Internet to World-Ruling Self-Conscious Network of Computing Machines: The History of Our Overlords. Volume 1: Towards Automation: The Beginnings.'
Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 2037
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This is ridiculous. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you feel limited by the choices offered by the iTunes Music Store, why not use a different online music store?
This would only be a "lock-in" if, say, the iPod was the only portable media player that ran on a Mac, or if the iTunes Music Store was the only way to buy music online through a Mac... but I don't think it would even be then, because if it's that important to you, you could always go buy a Windows box.
Re:This is ridiculous. (Score:2)
Sure. Just tell me how I can get the music I legally purchased licenses for at iTunes converted over to any other music store, and I'll cease using iTunes.
Or did you want me to throw away the music, and pay the MAFIAA fees again, after I already have purchased my license to listen?
That's w
Re:This is ridiculous. (Score:5, Insightful)
First tell me how to convert the legally purchased Windows game I have over to another operating system.
Re:This is ridiculous. (Score:3, Insightful)
amen.
Or, a person could just quit whining, and be glad that courts of law are not defining what products he is allowed to buy or what products a given company is allowed to produce or how they work. Is that
You don't have to be a monopoly to act like one... (Score:4, Insightful)
This could be avoided entirely by Apple simply licensing their implementation of Fairplay to other portable music player manufacturers. They have thus far refused to do that.
I don't expect them to sell non-DRM'd music, and I don't expect them to sell anything other than AAC. But players like iRiver and the Zen and such would love to support the iTunes Music Store. Building in AAC support they can do on their own. Building in Fairplay and DRM support they must license from Apple. Either that or they have to go the Real Player route and DIY the thing. Which leaves them open to Apple breaking compatibility at any time.
BS (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:BS (Score:2)
Or did you mean the music store?
Rio [rioaudio.com] has a whole lineup of iTunes compatible flash players... except it seems to only be compatible on the Mac side. Strange isn't it?
Of course you're locked in, its Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
SURPISE people: Apple makes its money through hardware. OSX is only there to bring in sales for the computers, and iTunes is only there to sell the iPods.
What'd he expect? Its not like they don't make it clear that the iPod and iTunes go together.
What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's next? (Score:2)
Apple is trying to protect iTunes by keeping iPod owners from buying from other sources. It'd be like if Sony CD players only played CDs released by Sony.
Re:What's next? (Score:2)
Re:What's next? (Score:2)
Burn a CD (Score:2)
What a kludge (Score:2)
Inconvenient, maybe, but no lockout (Score:3, Insightful)
What is monopolistic is not even being able to burn a CD or even change the encoding of a particular piece of music because of DRM, such as WMA.
Dumbass (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but the problem isn't with Apple. I'm sure they'd love to be able to do that and keep these dumb lawsuits from appearing. The real problem is the music industry, who probably told apple they couldn't do that (i.e. export to mp3 from iTunes).
If you have gripes with the iTunes store, you need to take it up with the music industry, they're the one calling the shots. It's amazing Apple was able to get cd burning in there, don't be an idiot and ruin it for the rest of us.
IMO this guy reminds me of the idiot shining a laser at a plane flying over head... You get way more attention than you were expecting.
The only way the iTunes store could possibly export audio from it is to convert to wma, but then they'd have to license Microsoft technology, and that's just... wrong.
No, but they could license their implementation of (Score:5, Insightful)
But they won't do that, because iTunes is designed from the get-go to drive iPod sales through this AAC/Fairplay lockin.
To get the best experience you need iTunes, an iPod, and a Mac. You have to jump through hoops, degrading the audio quality of the music in the process to use the music you've purchased through iTunes on anything else.
These barriers are in place specifically to drive people to get an iPod. They are anti-competitive by design. Whether the iTunes/iPod combination provides a sufficient market dominance to be ruled a monopoly and subject to Anti-Trust law, is a matter for the courts to decide.
That's funny ... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is never once, in any of the articles I found, any mention that Apple is contractually obligated NOT to license Fairplay.
Perhaps you could site something to back up your assertion.
Re:No, but they could license their implementation (Score:3, Informative)
Where is the abuse of Anti-Trust laws?
Tying iTunes downloads to the iPod is anti-competitive, it is not possible to create a competing player to the iPod in regards to iTunes music because Apple won't license Fairplay to any other device makers.
But Apple's DRM is not licensable (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows Media DRM scheme, while more oppressive in most ways, is licensed to several different portable players (i believe).
This, to me, has been the most obnoxious part of apple's DRM since the beginning. Overall, it's pretty lenient, but it does lock the music buyer into apple's hardware from
Ridiculous (Score:2, Interesting)
He can burn CDs of his music from iTunes. Even the claim that Apple has turned an "open and interactive standard" into something proprietary is ludicrous, as AAC is not an open standard.
WANKER! (Score:2)
This crud about open standards is ludicrous, too.
-psy
Fair Use (Score:2)
It's OK for Apple to use copyright law to restrict how people can use the music they sell to people, but it's not OK for the RIAA to do the same?
This Claim Is Going Nowhere (Score:2)
1) Online Music Distribution
2) All Electronic Music Distribition, or
3) All Music Distribution.
While Mr. Slattery's lawyers might make some headway in assertin
Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
If this goes anywhere... (Score:2)
Of course, the same argument can be made about other devices and standards. But I don't think
The answer is... (Score:3, Insightful)
But... I think we can all agree that being able to legally download music online, in some form, is a very good thing. And the fact is that, without DRM, this wouldn't be happening at all. No major industry copyright holder such as a record company or a movie company would ever agree to make their content available online without some form of DRM-like control.
So you can either give up on the whole idea of online music stores, or you can accept DRM as a necessary evil. You can even just burn your tracks to CD and rip them in whatever codec floats your boat. DRM is certainly immoral in a "free as in speech" sort of way, and it contributes to the general glut of competing and incompatible codecs, but it's here to stay.
Didn't see this in the 4 & 5 posts, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
iTMS is a serious waste of money.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, I actually like iTunes. It slurped up my previously ripped MP3 collection with no problems. I like the design, layout, and semantics of iTunes. It's really a nice app.
What's more, is that the SlimServer software has some integration with iTunes. Pretty cool. You can set up playlists in iTunes and then use SlimServer to play it through your stereo via the SqueezeBox. Way cool, really.
So, my wife heard a song on the radio that she liked, so we fired up iTunes and got an account on iTMS. Very nice integration, I must say. We found the song she liked, paid our $0.99 and downloaded it. It was an extremely smooth and appealing experience. But after getting the song, we found that we can use iTunes to play it through the computer's speakers, but when we try to play it through the SqueezeBox -- nothing!! It won't work.
I dug around, and finally found this [slimdevices.com]:
This means that I paid $0.99 for a worthless stream of bytes!! I'm not gonna spend time to download, burn, and re-rip. That's stupid. I can go buy the damn CD, rip it, and then immediately sell it to Cheapo [cheapotexas.com], and be out only a little money (as opposed to the total loss that iTMS offers). Thankfully, I downloaded only one song and wasted only a buck.
iTMS looks really nice, and you gotta hand it to Apple -- it's a nicely integrated product. I like iTunes, and I'll probably continue to use it. But, until I can play music on my own players, I will not be wasting any more money on iTMS.
Who does he work for? (Score:3, Insightful)
Somebody open a pool on what company is bank-rolling this!
Re:The answer for apple. (Score:5, Interesting)
What "point" do you think is defeated, and what problem do you think you're solving for them? It's incredibly unlikely that Apple will lose this suit; they don't really have a problem.
Re:The answer for apple. (Score:2)
Exactly... and if you want to eliminate FairPlay from the mix because it is proprietary, then you'd be left with only WMA. At any rate, I don't know what part of inventing the iTMS and the iPod is illegal. I think the person who filed the law suit would probably be in favor of placing the UN in charge of DRM schemes.
This has just gotten ridiculous. What next, people suing fast food restaurants because t
Re:The answer for apple. (Score:4, Insightful)
RIAA will not allow Apple or anyone else to sell music distributed by RIAA member corporations in digital form online without DRM. In the United States, or anywhere else copyright law will let them prevent it.
Are you honestly suggesting iTMS could be successful if people couldn't buy the latest Britney Spears single from it? Independent music is all well and good, but people want the music RIAA owns. Their sales may be down, but they're still huge.
Re:Anti-trust (Score:2)
They just happen to have a good online music store and a good digital media player.
Translation, anyone? (Score:2)
I tried about four times, and could not parse that sentence.
Re:Translation, anyone? (Score:2)
Re:Well if it was Microsoft (Score:2)
The question now becomes whether iTMS can be considered a monopoly[2] in the online music sales business. If so, then the rules are somewhat stricter, and they may be forced to license FairPlay DRM to other
Re:If the darkside did it.. (Score:2)
-psy
Re:This is exactly why I don't have one! (Score:2)
You're not the target market for iTMS. Apple doesn't care if you buy music from them if you don't want an iPod. Why would you want someone to successfully sue them because you don't want to be a customer? Do you prefer Pepsi, and thus hope that Coke gets sued frequently?
Anyway, Apple does not claim to sell the iPod at a loss.
Re:This is exactly why I don't have one! (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, I would much rather it was
Re:This is exactly why I don't have one! (Score:2)
Re:Why MUST the guy "just" have to make a CD... (Score:2)
Uh, then don't pay for it. Don't use iTunes or Windows if you don't like the product.