iPod Generation 4 Released

I_am_Rambi writes "According to MSNBC "The considerably tweaked fourth-generation iPod will roll out this week, and Newsweek got an advance peek. It looks a bit different, operates more efficiently, has a few more features and costs less. Here are the highlights...." Improved battery life, upto 12 hours, a click wheel, more efficient menus, multiple on the go play list, and probably one of the best changes is a lower price. $399 (down from $499) for a 40 gig, $299 (down from $399) for a 20 gig, and there are no 15 gig versions." And you can read Apple's iPod site for the full details.

20gb = no dock!

[Anonymous Coward]

Notice that price cut with 20gb version was made by leaving dock out of the package.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[JHromadka]

Honestly, since Airport Express came out, I don't need the dock anymore. When I'm at home, I just stream from my Mac to my stereo using APX instead of having my iPod next to the TV.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[Mattb90]

The carry case was also removed from both models to reduce the cost. Adding both back in to the 20GB model brings the price to £276.99 on the UK store (down from £299.99) and $377 on the US store (down from $399). A reduction, but not as significant as Apple make out.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[fyonn]

according to the tech specs (but not the store), the 40G one does have the carry case. still, the price in dollars converted to pounds is about £213 so quite a significant saving to be made if you can import one. sure the power plug is different, but a simple uk fig 8 cable can fix that.

dave

Re:20gb = no dock!

[joeykiller]

Ever since the day Apple started selling iPod models with several hard disk sizes, the low end model have always been sold without the dock. So this isn't new, but it may be confusing that the old "middle" model (20gb) now is the low end model.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[thaddjuice]

Notice that price cut with 20gb version was made by leaving dock out of the package.

The base model ($299) has _never_ had the dock, carry case, or remote. Now it's just that the base model is the 20GB.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[EulerX07]

Allright then, they didn't remove anything, they just bumped up the base model to 20 gigs. But why does the article say it's 299$ down from 399$ then? You have to pick one :

1) Price has been reduced from 399$ to 299$.
2) They did not remove the dock or carry case.

One or the others, you can't have it both ways.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[MachineShedFred]

This isn't as complex as you are trying to make it.

here's how this works:

1. The low end iPod doesn't have a dock or carrying case. It never has.

2. The 15GB model has been eliminated, and the 20GB is now the low end.

3. The 20GB iPod cost you $399 yesterday, and now it costs $299.

Therefore, with these three statements, there was a price reduction, and the product line has been enhanced where the accessory opkits remain the same.

Stop thinking you're getting screwed when you really aren't.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[violajack]

I think the confusion is coming from the two ways of looking at it. You are correct in all of your statements, except for a few important things:

1. The low end iPod has always cost $299.

2. The low end iPod has been upgraded from 15GB to 20GB.

3. Yesterday, the 20GB iPod would have come with a dock, remote, and carrying case, and now it does not.

You can either look at it as a price/accessory reduction in the 20GB model, or you can look at it as an upgrade in the storage capacity of the low end model.

SO WHAT?!

[SPYvSPY]

I have found both the dock and the carrying case to be nearly useless. Also, the dock probably costs Apple about two cents to make (assuming they've recovered the cost for their plastic mold), and the carrying case probably costs them about thirty cents (a little cardboard, some fabric and some elastic). I doubt this is where Apple is getting its cost savings. Anyway, your better off buying aftermarket items that are just plain better.

Re:SO WHAT?!

[Monkelectric]

Its not about cost savings. That is a time honored tradition with electronics. It's all psychology. Say you buy a PDA and it doesn't come with a cradle and screen protectors and a protective case. Said PDA is also very cheap, say, 300$.

The PDA company then sells the cradle, protectors and case at far above their "value", knowing that a large percentage of customers will just grab them when they buy the PDA. That way they get to advertise their 300$ price ont he low profit item (the PDA), and make quite a bit more on high profit items like stylses and screen protectors and what not.

Re:20gb = no dock!

[dasmegabyte]

To be completely honest, the 20 gig model they're offering is DIFFERENT from the old 20 gig, anyway. It's not the old "middle" model" bumped down, it's a completely new base model with the same price as the old middle one. Besides the new click wheel (which is a mixed blessing, I *LIKE* the round buttons but the one wheel design is so clean and will make for sturdier accesories), there's also the preeminent Shuffle feature on the main menu. A minor change, but something I would use all the time, since I like to switch between "play this album in context" and "full tilt random" depending on my mood. Right now, this means going back three or four menu levels, surfing to settings, and surfing to Shuffle - Songs. Shuffle on the menu eliminates the need to do this for every switch, and also eliminates one level of searching.

I hope they implement this functionality on the 3G, but since it's a minor enhancement that may sell the new model, I doubt it will find its way back. Shit, it'll sell it to me, soon as that 60 gig is out (my full library is an ever expanding 83 GB, and it's eating 50 gig of my 80 gig laptop drive at any given time).

Furthermore, the dock and carrying case are incentive accessories and are not worth the add on price, anyway. They're not bad, but the case is a little chintzy and the dock no more useful than a straight line cable. They're added to make paying $400 or $500 seem like a better deal. I used my plastic case for about a week before investing in a series of third party accessories, culminating in the excellent iSkin EXO2. I have never seriously used my dock...for a while, it sat on my stereo, but when it did I had no control over the ipod so I switched to a wireless line out (900 MHz, not an FM tuner).

Re:For my money

[Ath]

For less than that price, I just bought a Creative Zen 40GB. It doesn 90% of the same things and I don't really have a need to hook up little attachements like a voice recorder to it.

You probably applied the same rule to the car you purchased. While your Geo Metro will also get you to work and back, my Audi A4 with Quattro, a Bose sound system, and leather interior gives me more pleasure when driving it.

I am not critizing, I am only trying to remind you that people put different values on different things. There is a reason why brands are important to their owners because they convey a lot of things: image, lifestyle, costs, etc. What may float your boat may not float someone else's. Different strokes for different folks.

And lest you fail to see my point that you also have the same character trait, take a look in your cabinet and tell me how many generic products you have. I can guarantee that there are generic versions of almost everything you buy. Cheaper? Yes. Better? Maybe...maybe not.

iMac

[sjb2016]

*The 60gb hds are actually for the iMac G5's that will float on a cushion of air and have a hockey puck base which can make any flat surface into an air hockey table. Who says we Mac users don't get any of the good games? I love air hockey.

*Pure conjecture

Re:60gb = no stock!

[PsychoSpunk]

Yes, the number of iPod models offered has always been 3 for sufficiently large values of 1 (5GB first gen) or 2 (5GB and 10GB first gen), or sufficiently small values of 4 (4GB mini and 15/20/40GB third gen). Oh, and chocolate rations are up.

Editors, huh?

[TheRaven64]

And you can Apple's iPod site for the full details.

Nice job Hemos. Sentences should a main verb.

Re:Editors, huh?

[BJH]

Yeah, I thought so too at first, but then I went to Apple's site.
On the right-hand side, it says "iPod your BMW.", so I guess 'iPod' is a verb.
Maybe Taco and Hemos have just been speaking some sort of future English all along. They're time travellers from the year 2100AD, trying to fit in with our primitive society, and the only ones in our time advanced enough to communicate in their language are Apple...

Re:Editors, huh?

[clarkcox3]

Verbing weirds English

Re:Editors, huh?

[clarkcox3]

No.

"Verbing" is the subject,
"wierds" is the verb,
and "English" is the object.
"Verbing" is not being used as a verb, it is a gerund, derived from a verb, which is made by "verbing" the noun "verb".

If you said "Verbing nouns weirds English", then you'd be completely discounting the "verbing" of the adjective "weird".

Re:Editors, huh?

[clarkcox3]

ITYM "You must new here."

Inflexible?

[Onan]

Out of curiosity, what's inflexible about "AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF, Apple Lossless and WAV", and a tendency for more formats to become supported over time? It might not include a format you specifically want (vorbis or flac, I suppose?), but "inflexible" seems like an odd way to characterize it.

15gb

[rbolkey]

I guess they had to get rid of it. With $100 drop across the table, they would have been cheaper than the minis. Unfortunately, my price point would have been the 15gb with the $100 drop.

Re:15gb

[ODD97]

Sadly, the cost to make a tiny hard drive like that doesn't go down. Capacities go up, but the expensive part is the actual physical hardware, not the capacity. I agree that I would have seriously considered getting a 15GB if it were dropped $100.

Re:15gb

[Moofie]

Since Apple can sell all the hardware they can make at the higher price, they would be STUPID to drop the price.

Want something cheap? Go buy one of Apple's competitors' devices.

Oh, you want it to have good design as well? I see. Then you get to pay for it. Get used to the notion that quality engineering costs money. Zero of Apple's competitors have quality engineered hardware.

Yes, including that Neuros lunchbox. Boy, that's a dumb looking piece of hardware.

Re:15gb

[b-baggins]

There is so much wrong with your post it's hard to know where to begin.

First, 51% percent of the MP3 market already is iPods. So your snobbery take is simply wrong. It may have started that way, but now it's become the "me too" syndrome. You aren't hip unless you have an iPod just like your friends.

Second, Alpine will soon be offering an iPod compatible sound system for you car, so there goes your second elitist argument.

Thirdly, iPods are enjoying triple-digit sales growth right now (last quarter sales were 180% above same quarter, previous year sales). Now, please tell me why a company that has 51% of the market, and is STILL enjoying triple-digit growth rates needs to change their pricing structure at all?

Firmware update

[Saven Marek]

is their a firmware update to bring the new features to my older ipod??? battery life is down allot and its only 2 years old. It still works but not as well as it used to and an update to get 50% more battery life would bring mine back to a new state, if it is by working differently instead of new battery technology, which I doubt.

anyone?????

The Nets Biggest Adult Anime Gallery's [sharkfire.net]

Re:Firmware update

[Anonymous Coward]

There certainly is a firmware update, and in keeping with Apple's general update policy, it will only cost around $399. Now you can't ask much fairer than that.

Re:Firmware update

[jcostantino]

You can't magically 'get back' battery life. All rechargable battery cells have a finite amount of charge/discharge cycles until they start to lose capacity. You can do some googling and find companies that will sell you a new battery or replace it for you. There is always Apples' refurb program but it's the most expensive (although I believe you get a refurb unit instead of just a battery).

Apple will NEVER release firmware that upgrades older units to newer features unless it suits them. Example: Gen 1 and 2 iPods got ACC decoding but didn't get on the go playlists. They /could have/ done OTG playlists but that's one of the features seperating old from new.

Re:Firmware update

[__aafkqj3628]

I wish!

I don't see any technical reason why things like multiple generated playlists, speed-variable playback and hearing the clicker through the headphones can't be done on current iPods.
However, the current update page [apple.com] seems to restrict those features the the newest model.

I wish Apple wouldn't try and alienate their older customers so much like this. With software, it isn't so bad since the investment usually isn't as large. But with firmware and hardware, the investment can be quite conciderable.

Re:Firmware update

[OS24Ever]

You must be new to the computer industry. Someone releases a new product hoping you'll buy it, not continually updating an old product in the hopes you'll never need to spend money with them again.

Price

[prewashedironman]

The best bit about this i feel is that apples changed the exchange rate for the UK. In the USp the 20gb now costs what the 15gb did and the 40gb costs what the 20gb used to be. But in the UK we get the 20gb model for GBP30 cheaper than the 15gb model used to be(GBP220vs GBP250). Hurray for apple!

Re:Price

[weave]

Please don't forget that UK prices are inclusive of 17.5% VAT while U.S. prices are exclusive of sales taxes, that usually run from 0% to 10% depending on the state). I wouldn't be surprised if there was an import duty slapped on to the UK prices as well.

Not the full difference, but still. I can't buy a lot of Japanesse goods in the U.S for as cheap as I could in Japan with the current exchange rate either.

european price markup - why?

[davids-world.com]

the European version sells for 284 (370) Euros excluding sales tax (which is usually another 15-20 percent!). That is USD 353 plus tax. Why the markup?
Are there higher import taxes for electronics from Taiwan?

Or is the Eurpean market just considered not so competitive?

(Btw: Canon is doing that as well with their digital cameras. Really annoying!)

Re:european price markup - why?

[mjs]

Europe has some legal requirements that increase costs. For example, in the UK at least, you can return anything you buy within 10 days of buying it, for full refund, even if you simply decide you don't like it anymore. As far as I know you can't do this in the US.

See UK T&C [apple.com] ("If you have received the ordered Product(s) and have simply changed your mind about purchasing them you may return the Product(s) or entitlement to Service to us for a refund..."), US T&C [apple.com].

(This applies to everything, not just Apple products.)

Re:european price markup - why?

[Oddly_Drac]

"For example, in the UK at least, you can return anything you buy within 10 days of buying it, for full refund, even if you simply decide you don't like it anymore."

14 days. It's a standard contractual 'cooling off' period where you can suddenly decide you don't want it. However, collecting on that clause in the Sale of Goods Act is _extremely_ hard unless you have something heavy to bludgeon the store with. Woolworths, for example, decided that they didn't want to play in terms of computer games, DVDs and CDs. I tend to go around pointing out that signs taped to the cash desk don't actually invalidate statutory rights...

One little known clause is 'fitness of purpose'; anything you buy has to be fit for the purpose for which it was bought.

Of course, my favourite is the implied and statutory 12 month warranty. I've had many an argument over a limited time warranty before now.

However, this is all normally policed by Trading Standards, and they _really_ have their hands full dealing with internet purchases/scams.

BTW, the major cost increase in the UK compared with anywhere else is importation duties and the recognition of the UK market as a cash cow...

Re:european price markup - why?

[strictnein]

One of the reason a lot of things, especially electronics, are more expensive in europe is that both the euro and the pound are beating our U.S. dollar into submission at the moment.

That doesn't make sense at all. If your currency increases in value in relation to another country, their goods typically drop in price in your country, not increase.

Re:european price markup - why?

[jratcliffe]

"One of the reason a lot of things, especially electronics, are more expensive in europe is that both the euro and the pound are beating our U.S. dollar into submission at the moment."

Actually, this would make things cheaper in Europe than the US. Think about it - if the pound is stronger, then it can buy more dollars, so things priced in dollars get cheaper.

Considerably tweaked?

[nmg196]

How is it "considerably" tweaked? It looks pretty much identical and few new features.

Re:Considerably tweaked?

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

THE LIST:

-50% more battery
-Removal of 4 buttons with a single click wheel like the iPod mini
-A little thinner
-Better menu UI design
-Shuffle songs feature
-Faster or slower e-book reading by 25% without changing the readers voice pitch
-Price drop

Remember, it's hard to improve on something many people think is perfect (the sales #'s agree with that statement). But it's nice to see the company keep-on-truckin' and improve things. Some people might bitch about "thinner" being only 1 mm, but holy SHIT! At least they are trying! Better then 1 mm thicker!

USB2 cable

[prewashedironman]

Interesting, both models now ship with USB2 cables as well as firewire. And free laser engraving for the time being. And, surprisingly for apple their both shipping in "2-4 days" in the UK and "1-2 days" in the USA. Very Exciting!

Re:USB2 cable

[transient]

Yeah, but they still won't engrave "Bad Motherfucker." Bastards.

Putting a Pam III icon on the topic

[Lispy]

while there is a beautiful iPod [slashdot.org] icon is actually a bit weird, but hey, this is Slashdot.

OGG Vorbis, what does it take to get the support?

[coe]

Taken directly from apple's spec sheet for the new ipod:

--
Audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF, Apple Lossless and WAV
--

I mean what does it take for us to get the OGG support into iPod? For 3 generations of this machine, one major target audiance of "switch" campaing has been unix users. We, the guys who support and now have started to love the new apple have begged for this support into iPod.

4th generation. And still no support. Lots of feedback sent, even on the official apple forums and nothing. Not even an official explanation why not.

How many generations this will take?

For example, I have over 110GB of music and other audio recorded in OGG format, rendering iPod totally useless for me. I did a quick "hey, whats your status" in my local university and situation was the same. iPod feels, looks and sounds too good to be true, everyone of us wants one. Expect for one big but.. where in the hell is the inhouse OGG support.

I know the problems with ARM processor inside iPod and lack of integer based OGG coded, but now that there is one (tremor) (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/) and it's even in BSD license, I cant belive apple choose yet again to leave OGG support out of iPod.

Could someone please take a club and bash the ingorant iPod tech division to little pieces, since I and many like me, would pay huge sums for this support.

It could even be "silent" "no warranty" "not supported" type of deal, just could someone please answer why cant this one of the most advanced piece of modern consumer technology lack the most important feature..

OGG VORBIS - Support.

demand from hundreds of thousands of people.

[sammy baby]

Could someone please take a club and bash the ingorant iPod tech division to little pieces, since I and many like me, would pay huge sums for this support.

Sure.

20 gigs: $299
40 gigs: $399
15 gigs with Ogg support: $499

I mean, come on. What do you really mean by "huge?" They obviously don't feel that the cost of integrating the feature would be worth the effort. And when I think about it, I can't blame them: hell, I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't have included mp3 support if it wasn't for the fact that the installed base made that the "cost of entry" for the device to the market. Otherwise, they'd just have gone with AAC (and later, ALC).

Oh, and by the way: what do you mean by "many like you?"

For the first time, Apple sold more iPods in a quarter than it did Macs--and Apple CEO Steve Jobs is happy about it. "We feel great," Jobs told the New York Times. "We sold a lot of Macs, but we've sold more iPods in the quarter than all the Macs put together." As reported by MacMinute Wednesday, Apple sold a record 807,000 iPods in the quarter, a more than 900 percent increase from the period a year earlier.
- MacMinute [macminute.com]

Somehow, I kinda doubt your conception of "many" jibes with theirs.

Re:OGG Vorbis, what does it take to get the suppor

[chegosaurus]

I used to feel the same. Finally I admitted I'd made the wrong choice, re-ripped as VBR mp3s, got an iPod and never looked back.

It's not the first time (and won't be the last) that I'd backed the wrong horse. For instance, I preferred the Amiga to the PC, but I lost out there too. Market forces meant that I either stayed back with my little minority interest and my politics, or I (begrudgingly at first) followed the herd.

I held out for a good while for ogg support, now I've had 9 months of happy iPodding and I couldn't care less. I really don't see the benefit of vorbis over decent bitrate VBR. I also don't think 95% of the people who've bought iPods have any idea at all what ogg, flac, aiff, audible and so on are. /.ers tend to overestimate the real world impact of their pet technologies.

Whenever I see the spec, though, I always wonder how many people are carrying round an iPod full of WAVs...

Re:OGG Vorbis, what does it take to get the suppor

[chegosaurus]

> Sooo... you've got about as much spine as cooked spaghetti?

I've got the balls to post on Slashdot as a non-anonymous user! :-)

Re:OGG Vorbis, what does it take to get the suppor

[meringuoid]

The iRiver players are nice - I mean, they must have been designed to a Slashdot specification, they do everything, Linux, ogg, no copyprotection - but I would like them to be able to assemble playlists on the fly, rather than copying in Winamp lists from the PC.

That's my niggle, anyway. Apparently iRiver are working on a firmware upgrade to add this in, which is due out somewhere between the Hurd and Duke Nukem Forever.

Champs Elysee is in Singapore????

[natd]

From the product page on Apple.com.au;

"you could fly from Sydney to Singapore and still have hours of listening time left over as you stroll the Champs Elysée."

I think the Australian 'localisation team' need to do better than a find and replace of 'New York' & 'Paris'...

Re:Champs Elysee is in Singapore????

[raider_red]

We've got one in Las Vegas, so why not Singapore?

Man!

[caldroun]

I just got a 15g for my Wife for her birthday earlier this month.

Damn you Jobs!
(Ok... the one I got is still cool, though)

I, Pod

[ackthpt]

The story of a new generation of personal music players which takes over peoples brains, until tough cop Will Smith shuts them all down.

Rated [R] for "Rip Off"

Where is the radio (AM/FM)?

[tc1970]

Too bad...there is still no radio on the new iPod. I refuse to buy any portable music device without built-in radio. Remember the black out from last year? I think AM/FM is a must-have life-saving feature. Mr. Job, are you listening? I wonder how many of you agree?

Life-saving feature?

[NormanEinstein]

Having a built-in radio receiver would be nice, but I'd hardly call it a "must-have, life-saving" feature.

Maybe you should ask Steve Jobs to include a weeks dry rations and heart defibrillator too.

Re:Where is the radio (AM/FM)?

[amichalo]

I don't agree that an AM/FM radio is a requirement.

In fact, I wouldn't want a device that included a radio tuner, or for that matter, voice recording and image viewing capabilities. That is the road that cell phone manufacturers went down with the camera phone, MP3 playback, SMS messaging and all that. To some it is a necessity, but not for me.

The iPod is a tool for transporting and listening to high quality music of your choosing, on demand. The ability to listen to AM/FM radio runs counter to this purpose.

I understand some people *really* need a radio, or the ability to record their own voice, or some other feature. Luckily, there is a huge 3rd party industry with high quality products from comapnies like Griffin Technologies [griffintechnology.com] that address these concerns wth add-ons.

thanks to apple

[nighty5]

for bringing their products to the masses.

Now its cool to own mac stuff, and not as geeky. When im podding down the street I get stopped by common folk, conversations are struck and I'm meeting new people all from a little white music device.

"oh I want one of those, whats yours" - is all thats said until a conversation is struck.

I have a 3rd gen ipod, and very happy with it. I wont bother with a mini, or the 4th because mine is going great guns.

Some would say expensive, but if they can charge the market and get away with it to get the best margin then goodluck to them.

Selling Like Hotcakes?

[rogerborn]

This expression is used continually everywhere to describe run away success in sales, popularity, etc. It was used here in this thread at least a dozen times when talking about the fantastic sales of the iPods.

I do not understand this? Who are these hotcake vendors? Where are they selling these hotcakes everyone talks about being so popular? Who buys these hotcakes anyway?

I certainly am not interested in buying hotcakes. They probably aren't Atkins friendly anyway. In fact, they don't sound so appetizing to me. Do they come with syrup? Are they sold with powdered sugar coating? Or fruit toppings? How about with butter or creamc heese?

Sounds like the popular pancakes that used to be sold in Moscow.

Surely this isn't where the term "selling like hotcakes" comes from, right?

How about we all change this old fashioned, outdated and silly phrase!

Lets all being using the term "Selling Like iPods!" instead. . .

Roger Born
writing.borngraphics.com
"Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."

Well Actually..

[Klar]

"Hot cakes cooked in bear grease or pork lard were popular from earliest times in American. First made of cornmeal, the griddle cakes or pancakes were of course best when served piping hot and were often sold at church benefits, fairs, and other functions. So popular were they that by the beginning of the 19th century 'to sell like hot cakes' was a familiar expression for anything that sold very quickly effortlessly, and in quantity." From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997)

Apple are upgrading existing orders

[gataylor]

My fiance ordered a 20GB iPod for me on Friday (through Apple's online UK store). Apple just sent her an email saying:

Today Apple announced an exciting new generation of iPods!
We have automatically upgraded your 20GB iPod to the new 40GB iPod, at no additional cost and added the iPod Carrying Case, Wired Remote and Earphones (which are no longer included with the new 40GB iPod) free of charge.

Kudos to Apple for doing this!

Geoff

Re:Apple are upgrading existing orders

[archen]

Apple is well known for doing this. Not so long ago people who bought a Mac with OSX 10.2 got an upgrade to 10.3 if they had purchaced one within 3 months of the new OS upgrade. My iBook had a defect with the logic board and Apple just replaced it for free - 10 months after the warrenty expired. They payed for all shipping and handling and expenses. They also offered to upgrade my CD/DVD drive but I already had the newer version. Try getting THAT kind of service from Dell.

Rounded corners

[Jouni]

... so no more iPod killings [liquidgeneration.com], I reckon. :)

Jouni

I'm holding out...

[WormholeFiend]

for the generation of iPods that will come with 100 teragigs, stop the war and cure cancer.

Nice Update

[UMhydrogen]

It seems that whatever apple does, people will complain. Yes, the 20gig version no longer comes with the case, dock and remote, but does it really matter?

If you're looking into the 20gig version, here are some thoughts:
1) Spend $40 to get the remote (if you don't have it already).
2) The dock is only an added feature, it's not really needed. I bought the case and remote on my own when I got the 10gig version and have never seen a need for the dock.
3) Get a better case than the $40 Apple one that requires you to take it out of the case to use it. There are some nice cheap clear ones out there.

Also keep in mind, if you wanted the 40gig version in the past, it's now $100 cheaper! I was planning on getting the 20gig because I filled up my 10gigs. Now for the same price I can get another 20gigs. While the new 20gig version does leave out some things, the 40gig is much better deal now!

If you're like me and bought the remote and case seperately, then upgrading to the 20gig version still lets you have the remote/case. No big deal. The way I see it, I'm still saving $100 no matter what I do.

Look on the bright side, there's now longer battery life, a cleaned up interface and a new wheel.

So, how long before the 60gb is released?

[mbourgon]

We already know Toshiba is making them, they just got dumb and leaked the news before Steve did. Just like when ATI leaked info in advance on one of the cards. (One difference: while Steve didn't mention the ATI, it was still available via the web site)

Or is this a way to make the iPods appear cheaper, since there's no $500 one? Now, the apparent difference between a Windows-type Media Device (which, say, sells for $600) and an iPod is $200, not $100.

Software update also released

[amichalo]

Apple [apple.com] also released a Software Update [apple.com] for ALL iPods.

The updates (from there site) are:

New for Click Wheel iPods:
-Shuffle songs with one click
-Create multiple On-The-Go playlists
-Delete songs from On-The-Go playlists
-Select reading playback speed for audiobooks
-Hear the clicker user interface sound through headphones
-Charge via USB 2.0 connection
-Enjoy improved playback performance

Updates for iPod with a Dock connector and iPod mini:
-Compatibility with iTunes 4.5 or later and the iTunes Music Store
-Improved playback performance
-Support for the Apple Lossless Encoder, to enable compressed music encoding at high quality

Updates for iPod without a Dock connector:
-Compatibility with iTunes 4.5 or later and the iTunes Music Store
-Improved playback performance

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[swordboy]

Why do they refuse to offer an iPod for $200?

Umm... Marketing?

The iPod is very successful. Right now, the people that are buying them are going to pay a premium. When this market is saturated, they can then sell lower priced versions. This is pretty straight forward economics.

I'll be one of the first to buy the cheap version that comes out around Christmas time.

because...

[nikster]

...they already sell like hotcakes?

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[galaxy300]

Because they're selling like hotcakes at the price point they're at already. Why undercut themselves? I'm sure they've spent quite a bit of time studying the market, and considering their earnings last quarter (61 million profit, much higher than expected) you probably shouldn't expect a price drop anytime soon.

If you're looking for a cheap iPod, check eBay.

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[shplorb]

Why do they refuse to offer an iPod for $200? They'd sell like hotcakes. Not everyone needs 40 freakin' gigs.

They're already selling like hotcakes, nimrod.

Q: Why would you drop the price on something that you already can't make enough of?

A: You're an idiot?

If this post offends you, it's because the truth hurts. Try saving up, it's how a lot of us can afford expensive items.

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[jcbphi]

In addition to the marketing aspects pointed out by other folks, let me remind you of the economics of marking these things.

Hard disks, such as those used in the iPod, have high fixed costs to produce. So while it may be possible to cram more bits in the same package as technology advances, its difficult to take an older, smaller disk and produce them cheaply. The single biggest cost in producing an iPod is the hard disk. QED, etc.

Also, given that iPods in all varieties have been selling like hotcakes from the start, why would Apple want to lower the price? Clearly lots of people are willing to pay the $300-$500...I know I was.

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[BMonger]

It is possible that the components other than the hard drive cost X amount where X is more than $200. I have no clue if this is the case but... an iPod without a hard drive could cost $200 or more. Thus the reason there is no $200 iPod.

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[Blondie-Wan]

Aside from the fact all iPods in general are already selling like hotcakes (as several others have pointed out), they're also selling the iPod mini, a 4 GB iPod that costs $249. What are they supposed to do, sell a full-size iPod with a higher capacity for $50 less??

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[OmniVector]

everyone keeps replying to you saying it's because they're selling like hotcakes, or it's marketing, etc. bla bla..

sorry, the truth is it costs almost the same amount to make a 15gb hd as a 20gb. infact, i bet the difference is measurable in a few dollars. so what's your choice. offer a 15gb at $290 and 20gb at $300, or just a 20gb at $300? it's pretty simple which one apple's going to sell. until the manufacturing costs come way down on miniturized hard drives, it will pretty much be the same price for years to come.

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[Kjella]

First off, it could hardly come as a surprise. This is Apple's standard way of introducing products, same as their Macs. The old models don't go cheap, they disappear. In addition to already selling like hotcakes, they also sell by being expensive. The same goes for many other status symbols (which the iPod certainly is).

Yes, they could drop prices, try to be the "Windows" of mp3 players. But it requires a completely different business process. More cost-efficient solutions (read: cut corners), less R&D, heavy optimization of the production process and so on. Move around production based on wage costs etc.

Trying to be a price leader is a very tough market. Unlike software, where you "accumulate" code, the hardware business is full of clone makers, staying just out of reach of your patents. I don't think the iPod would be anywhere near the success it is, if Apple had chosen that strategy. It is simply not in their corporate culture and way of thinking, quite simply: others are better at it.

Instead they build brand, making people want an iPod, not pick it on price. Clone makers can't really touch that, because they customer specifically wants an iPod - not any other brand. And it is amazing how much cash you can up with for something you want, if only you prioritize...

Kjella

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[erick99]

Apple has always been this way. They do not want to have a low end product for any category. They have gotten away with this for many years though at the cost of market share. They can get away with it for a bit longer because they have a big cash stockpile and the iPods are profitable for them. I suspect that at some point they will run out of luck or steam. It may take a while but they just don't have enough going for them to sustain this business model forever. They could "reinvent" themselves as a much smaller company then they are now and have a better chance but, then, who knows?

I am neither a supporter nor detractor of Apple. I worked for an Apple reseller from 1983 to 1998 and sold Apple for most of those years and it was enjoyable. Eventually they undercut the dealer channel and that probably contributed to market share decline as the dealer base switched to pushing Windows machines.

It will be interesting to see what Apple looks like in five years. They might innovate themselves into a good position or they might slip into the tech graveyard. Hard to tell.

Cheers!

Erick

Re:ARRRGGGH.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Hey, guys, how well do hotcakes sell?

And what if I wanted waffles?

Why do they refuse to offer an iPod for $200? They'd sell like hotcakes. Not everyone needs 40 freakin' gigs.

Seems like a false argument by pointing to the top model when discussing a hypothetical bottom end? If one doesn't need 40 freakin gigs, why not buy the 20 gig version for $100 less than the 40 gig version?

They do sell cheaper iPods!

[YouHaveSnail]

They don't sell one for $200, but they do sell one for $249 [apple.com]. It's absolutely tiny, weighs nothing, and comes in five colors.

And yes, it is selling like hotcakes.

As far as why they're not selling a 15 gig white iPod, I'm sure there are a few reasons:

- 15 gig drives probably cost about the same as 20 gig drives.
- Offering two products which are very close in features tends to confuse the market.
- A 15 gig model that was much cheaper than the current 20 gig version would probably undercut the mini's market.

If you're so price-sensitive that you can't spring for the extra $49 that a mini would cost you, then probably:

- You shouldn't be spending money on a portable music player anyway.
- You should check out eBay [ebay.com].
- You might want to take a look at some cheaper knockoff [nomadworld.com] devices.

Re:They do sell cheaper iPods!

[Qamelian]

Pointing to Creative's Nomad line as iPod knockoffs is far from accurate. In terms of quality and meaningful features, the Nomad blows an iPod out of the water everytime. My first MP3 player was an iPod. I was disappointed in the quality of almost every aspect of the unit. The case felt cheap, the sound quality was awful (IMO), and the controls just didn't feel comfortable. I demoed a Nomad Zen at a local shop and returned the iPod a couple of hours later. The Zen costs significantly less and offers much higer quality sound and a more significant feature set (again IMO). For the quality you get, the iPod is drastically over-priced. h

Re:considerably tweaked? yes

[adzoox]

There are on the go playlists and better backlighting + a new game. 6.5 hours is NOT atrocius - it's not great, but I have no other means of carrying that much music in that small and conveiniant/efficient package... and playing breakout, solitare ;) + holding all of my programs that I use in my daily Apple Technical service

Go to colorware [colorwarepc.com] if you need a color or just buy a mini that already has good battery life and comes in colors.

Or you could just go the cheap route and by one of the 100's of different protective skins.

Re:considerably tweaked?

[Blondie-Wan]

The "atrocious battery life that should have been dealt with years ago" wasn't atrocious years ago; it was actually considered quite good, in fact (though those first- and second-gen iPods did have longer battery life than the third gen).

What's with your apparent assumption earphone color affects their quality?

Re:considerably tweaked?

[clarkcox3]

Bring on the decent player that also has decent (IE not white . . . )

Yes, 'cause as we all know, the color of the earphones affects how they sound.

or canal phones at a preferance. [sic]

In-Ear earphones [apple.com]. Besides, it's just a standard headphone jack, you can plug in any pair of headphones you want.

Re:considerably tweaked?

[iamacat]

What are you doing to need more than 6-8hours battery life that can not be solved with a regular or car charger? I can not imagine listening to so much music or audiobooks in one shot. If anything, I can listen to iPod longer than a regular mp3 player because I can choose from my whole library.

Re:Prediction

[BJH]

iPods do not have Ogg Vorbis support, making them evil. They should never be purchased.

There, happy now?

Re:Prediction

[ZorinLynx]

That's what amuses me most about the whole OGG thing.

Considering that you're more likely to trip over a siberian tiger in Manhattan than to find an OGG file, the ability to play OGG is just an icing on the cake, and not really necessary in a portable music player.

Of course, if you're one of those overzealous people who compressed everything in their collection to ogg when the "MP3's are going to be illegal!!!#!##!##!!# WE MUST NOT USE IT!" craze of a few years ago, that's your problem. }:)

-Z

Oh, the POOR ogg people.

[raygundan]

My record collection was entirely converted to VQF. VQF. It was going to be the next big thing-- sounded better than mp3 at lower bitrates. Well, we all know how that turned out... who's heard of vqf now?

Learned an important lesson about "better" standards. Unless it's got widespread adoption, or improves things by an order of magnitude, it's not going anywhere. Vorbis may sneak in as people start using it here and there (video games, etc...) just because it's free, but I'd expect that to take a LONG time. For now, I'm sticking with mp3 for portables, and keeping the files in FLAC for easy reconversion next time. If only I'd had the storage space for that the first time around-- converting LPs is *tedious*.

Re:Oh, the POOR ogg people.

[dave420]

"Learned an important lesson about 'better' standards. Unless it's got widespread adoption, or improves things by an order of magnitude, it's not going anywhere. Vorbis may sneak in as people start using it here and there ... just because it's free, but I'd expect that to take a LONG time"

replace "vorbis" with "linux", and this sounds very familiar indeed...

Re:Oh, the POOR ogg people.

[raygundan]

I believe AAC uses vector quantization similar to VQF, and is "where the technology went" after that debacle. I will reiterate my recommendation for everybody again, because I don't think I was very clear:

Keep all your music encoded LOSSLESSLY, with somethig like FLAC. Convert to the lossy-format-du-jour as necessary, whether that's mp3, ogg, vqf, aac, wma, or whatever. It's much, much easier than going back to the source, and you can do it programatically. Even CDs have to be fed in, and if you have any LPs/tapes/etc..., you're screwed on reencoding. (realtime only, plus editing for length, noise cleanup, and manual tagging)

It Does Not Matter what tech looks like the "next big thing." You will guess wrong at some point, so pick a plan that saves your source quality (FLAC), and uses an open codec that can't disappear. Then if you're wrong, you have a backup plan that doesn't take forever.

Re:Prediction

[nutsy]

1. Compress ripped CD audio to Ogg Vorbis
2. Share on your favourite filesharing system(s)
3. ...
4. Profit!

Re:Prediction

[LWATCDR]

"Considering that you're more likely to trip over a siberian tiger in Manhattan than to find an OGG file"

Well I find lots of OGG files. I rip my own CDs into OGG for my Rio Karma.
Why the heck shouldn't Apple add Ogg? It is a low cost feature and it is easy to find "legal" encoders for many OSs.

I have to wonder why no one has made a PDA with a 20 or 30 gig hardrive yet? It could even play Video files as well as music.

Re:Prediction

[jrockway]

Well because they're Apple. Apple goes for simplicity instead of features. AAC works, so that's what they use. Simple.

I don't necessarily think this is a good idea, but I'm not the product designer that's been doing this for years, either. Note that there's always the possibility that the iPod's CPU can't decode Vorbis in real time. It does run Linux, though, so just install Linux on the thing and run ogg123 :)

As an aside, I have a lot of FLAC files, but that's not really going to stop me from buying an iPod. Nothing a very small shell script can't fix.

Re:Prediction

[mst76]

> OGG although free does not compete with MP3 (PRO) which in turn does not compete with AAC.

At 128kbps, Apple's AAC encoder was beaten by Ogg and Musepack in a recent public listening test [rjamorim.com], and performed only slightly better than Lame MP3.

Re:Prediction

[lenhap]

DRM? I think you have your facts wrong there buddy...of course this is /. so misinformed seems to be a prerequisite for posting.

First off, AAC, the standard that iTunes compresses to, is an open standard based on mpeg 4. Unlike Windows media 9, it adds no DRM to music you rip from a cd. You can take those AAC files and play them in any player that supports the OPEN standard of AAC, Advanced Audio Codec, the Audio portion of Mpeg 4. Also you can play a ton of other formats on iPods, AIFF, mp3, wav ... and so on. In case you have something against AAC, which in my opinion is the best sounding format by far, you can rip songs through iTunes to VBR MP3. The only time any DRM is involved is if you buy music from the iTMS, which you certainly don't have to do unless you want to.

As for Linux, I would bet that apple is trying to come up with a way to get iTunes to Linux. Of course you have to understand that there are many different distributions to support and they aren't about to distribute iTunes as source to be compiled on each individual distribution. Hence getting itunes to linux is harder than porting to windows. Think about how many different windowing environments there are.

Anyways, until hardware prices drop you aren't going to see Apple dropping their prices. And I think if they could drop their prices while maintaining their profit ratio, they would. Why wouldn't they want to gain more of the mp3 player market?

Just make sure you aren't misinforming other people here because you are only relaying information you heard word of mouth. Do some research before you go spouting opinions as fact.

Re:Prediction

[BasilBrush]

That's right. Because it really matters to Apple how you listen to music. In fact they are watching you now with binoculars from the building across the road.

It has nothing to do with not wanting to waste engineers time on an obscure format that a handful of people on Slashdot *want*.

Re:here we go again

[sammy baby]

The "click-wheel" is essentially the wheel from previous designs of the iPod, with little clicky buttons at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions. So, make the dialing motion for the wheel controls, press down for the buttons. I've never used one, but the people I've met who have tried both say they like the click-wheel better, which would explain the switch.

History of the iPod wheel

[lavar78]

Actually, it's the click wheel first seen on the iPod mini. The 1G iPod had a moving wheel surrounded by a thin wheel of clickable buttons. The 2G model replaced the moving wheel with a touch-sensitive one. The 3G model kept the touch-sensitive wheel, but replaced the four buttons around the wheel with a row of four touch-sensitive buttons above the wheel. The iPod mini has one wheel that is touch-sensitive (when scrolling) and clickable at the N, S, E, and W points.

Re:Still not such a great deal

[OmniVector]

I think i've had my ipod for like 2 or 3 years. I forgot. It was whenever the first $300 windows versions starting hitting the market. Anyways, my battery life is hardly any worse than when i bought it. Two brothers make a half-truth documentary and complain they couldn't figure out how to replace the battery themselves go and start that video/website (which did they mention they turned around and bought another $400 iPod right after?) which feeds the trolls for the next few years. Look, go take a peek at ipodbattery.com [ipodbattery.com]. For an operation you have to do once ever 2-3 (or maybe even MORE) years, i think holding off just because of a non replacable battery is stupid. i bet you'd get a new ipod just because's better within that span of time anyways, then ebay it for an extra $150 off your new iPod.

Re:Still not such a great deal

[yumyum]

seeing as they still don't have a replaceable battery

I have a Gen 1 iPod that I've used pretty much daily. Excellent device, but the battery is starting to go. Thought about retiring it and buying a new model, but then I Googled for a replacement battery and found one for $30. Comes with a clear and concise user's manual -- see here [macsales.com]. From the manual, looks pretty easy to drop in a new one, so I went ahead and ordered one.

Re:battery

[Vollernurd]

It most certainly is and all you need is a small screwdriver (or guitar plectrum if you don't want to scratch it).

See iPod Battery.com [ipodbatery.com] for more info.

Re:battery

[Neduz]

Of course, Apple wants you to pay them to do it: http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html [apple.com]. But if your iPod is out of warranty, and you're a DIY guy, you can try to replace it yourself: http://www.ipodbattery.com/ [ipodbattery.com].

Re:No dock? No carry case? wtf?

[jt23]

you CAN replace the batteries yourself -- for $30 - $50. http://www.ipodbattery.com/

Re:No dock? No carry case? wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have solved this problem already. For $50 you call apple, they send you a prepaid postage package, and in 3 days you get your iPod back with a new battery installed. The case isn't meant to be opened by the user for a convienience factor.

You can also get the Belkin iPod Backup Battery kit, which plugs right into the bottom connector and allows for 12 more hours on four AA batteries. Coupled with the 12 hour battery life that the 4G iPod offers, that's a full 24 hours of music without a charge.

It also gets fully charged in 2 hours.

I have a 3G iPod and battery life is about seven to nine hours, depending on how often you switch songs, how long the songs are, what bitrate they are encoded at, how often you use the backlight, and if you use the equalizer.

Go buy an iPod now.