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Music Businesses Media Apple

Apple's iTunes DRM Cracked? 773

joekra writes "The author of DeCSS is back in the spotlight with a new application called QTFairUse. The new application attempts to convert DRM'd AACs to non-DRM'd AACs on Windows machines. MacRumors has done some limited testing on it and has found it doesn't yet work as advertised... but they do offer a look into how it works."
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Apple's iTunes DRM Cracked?

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  • by eddy ( 18759 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @06:59PM (#7538971) Homepage Journal

    thread here [hydrogenaudio.org].

  • by neonstz ( 79215 ) * on Saturday November 22, 2003 @06:59PM (#7538972) Homepage

    I read the comments on MacRumours, and basically this program is not an Apple DRM crack but a hack for QuickTime (windows version) which dumps the decrypted AAC stream to disk before it is sent to the AAC. This is done by patching QuickTime and writing the data in memory to disk. It is easy for Apple to change QuickTime to make this app useless, but it is nevertheless an interesting approach.

    That said, it is certainly possible to reverse-engineer the decryption routine in QuickTime instead of hacking the application itself. It is just a matter of time.

    • by seanadams.com ( 463190 ) * on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:27PM (#7539136) Homepage
      What's interesting about this (from a fair use standpoint) is that it only lets you get the AAC data if you have a computer that will play the protected file. This means that you can now play the AAC files with non-Apple hardware/software.

      However, it doesn't let you play someone else's DRMed .m4p files. They person who is licensed to play them would need to decripple the files first using this tool.

      Therefore, it's questionable whether this is really circumventing a copy-protection mechanism, since this method only allows the "rightful licensee" to extract the AAC. If that's not fair use, then I don't know what is.
      • by adrianbaugh ( 696007 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:17PM (#7539913) Homepage Journal
        That comment shows why DRM is nothing to do with fair use.
        If you bought a DRMed track then fair use probably allows you to re-encode it as a non-DRMed track for personal listening on a machine that can't cope with DRMed tracks.
        However, being able to remove the DRM from a file doesn't give you the right to redistribute the content (via kazaa or whatever) whether you bought the track or not.
        DRM systems that can be rendered useless by the breaking of a single version of a single player application are useless as a means of prevention of the redistribution of copyrighted material - you can bet that if a vulnerable application exists the big-business pirates will get a copy of that application. As it stands the DRM on DVDs has been rendered useless; the DRM on Apple's AAC files may be about to be rendered useless; I wouldn't bet against Microsoft's WMA being broken at some point (it only takes one faulty version of Windows Media Player, remember). DRM has not, does not and will not prevent commercial 'piracy'; it just restricts the utility of digital media formats to the average consumer.
        This is why, even back in the day, the DeCSS case[0] was so important. It demonstrated that DRM mechanisms were only as robust as their most fragile player application (and therefore, given that software is inherently buggy, fundamentally unsound as an honest business method).
        • by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) * on Saturday November 22, 2003 @11:11PM (#7540117) Homepage
          Because if you're intent on pirating commercially, you'll just buy the CD in the first place. What's $12 for a CD if you're intending on ripping off the thing and selling it illegally?

          This is kind of a tempest in a teapot, really.
        • by ShinmaWa ( 449201 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:39AM (#7540838)
          the DRM on Apple's AAC files may be about to be rendered useless

          I'm of the opinion that it was already useless. iTunes allows you to purchase the DRM'ed music, burn it as an Audio CD, then rip it as AAC, MP3, whatever you want without any DRM on it at all. The cost is a blank CD-R that, once done, is perfectly playable in any CD player, so its not even a wasted CD.

          All this is possible with iTunes right out of the box without any special tools. All this "FairUse" tool does is save you one step.. and one CD-R.
    • With just a handful of exceptions, all of the content being sold through the iTMS is also available on CD, which means it's already available in unprotected formats on the P2P networks. So I really don't see how this changes anything.
  • by spikexyz ( 403776 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:00PM (#7538980)
    One day they'll figure out that computers have made the marginal revenue for producing a song ~= $0. The whole music industry needs to undergo a revolution to stay profitable and I don't think anyone has figured out what that revolution needs to be.
    • by jazman_777 ( 44742 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @08:15PM (#7539372) Homepage
      I don't think anyone has figured out what that revolution needs to be.

      making good music would be a start.

    • by X_Bones ( 93097 ) <danorz13 AT yahoo DOT com> on Saturday November 22, 2003 @09:04PM (#7539575) Homepage Journal
      I don't think that computers remove the profit from producing music, just from distributing it. As long as there's a demand for music, artists can sell it for some price and make a living from it. But with iTMS, Amazon's recommended lists, fan bulletin boards, and so on, there's no need any more for a massive information and distribution network like the RIAA. People can find what they like and hear about other music from people with related tastes, and they can do this on their own. I think that's probably the biggest threat to the RIAA: informed consumers.

      But I guess as long as they have money and are able to buy politicians, they'll stick around.
      • by dubiousmike ( 558126 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:30AM (#7540810) Homepage Journal
        with digital audio editing programs. Long gone are the days that require million dollor studios to be able to create a polished piece of work.

        Now, a talented producer/sound guy is still needed and still requires skills. But anyone with a natural sound for music and practice can be damned good.

        • I think you are wrong. If you had ever tried to self-release a CD (like I have), you'd soon realize that it is expensive as hell to do so.

          Want to record? Well, you need something to record with. A 16-track hard disk record will run you about a thousand. About the same to get an RME Hammerfall Lite used and a pair of eight channel Analog to Digital Converters (still around $800 just to do eight tracks at a time, which is more than enough). Then you need software which is expensive as hell. Or you can go down the Free Software route and use Ardour (which is entirely reasonable for a demo, EP, or first album). So then you need equipment to record with. Mics run about $90 a piece for SM58s ($85 if you know the pro-audio guy at the local shop) and $80 for SM57s ($75...). Then you need cables, stands, monitor speakers, etc.

          So now you've just spent about $4000 (assuming $0 for software costs) on a rig that can be used to record at most a five piece drum kit. Of course, you can rent this system...and if you have a live sound PA the equipment you need overlaps very nicely (out of the $4500 in live sound stuff I have about $3700 worth of it [basically everything except for my PA cabs and monitors] can be used in a recording rig). Or you can just go and get a pro to do your recording at around $30 an hour (and that is on the low side). You'll probably end up spending a good fifty or sixty hours in the studio to lay down the tracks for a four or five song EP (assuming four minute song length).

          Going down the paying-something-else-to-do-it route is cheaper in the short term (but having all of that equipment is more fun). Recording turns out to expensive, but getting cds pressed costs about the same. If you want a run of 1000 discs with one color printing on the disc and a two color single page booklet with two color inserts in the jewel case you are looking at around $1300. Anything less and the per-disc price becomes a bit...obscene. And I left out the money you have to spend on getting the artwork ready for press (even if you do the artwork yourself you still need to pay a print shop to pre-press it, and they charge an arm and a leg for their services).

          Then comes the promo for the album...in the end, it costs a lot of money and only established bands that play fairly often to decently sized audiences can afford to do it without killing the members financially (because, quite honestly, if you are in a band that is self-publishing an album you more than likely still have a day job and that job is going to be low paying but allow you flexible hours so you can tour and whatnot).

          Or you can go the cheapass route and record stuff in your friend's basement on his computer (in all the glory of two-tracks-at-a-time) and then get someone to burn you a few hundred discs, print a sheet of labels, photocopy said label sheet onto more label sheets at Kinkos, and then do the same for the booklet pages. Then you have your friends stay up all night in someone's room cutting out the booklets and stapling them together and building your jewel cases...ahh, good memories. Personally, I'd do that with a four or five track EP-length album to get the money up to press a short run of seven inch records and then use the money from the seven inches to get a real album recorded.

          Then again, I'm used to being a part of the Hardcore Punk scene where one normally releases a split 7" record with another band (usually with the first run on some colored vinyl to make people want to buy it) before going on to record your own 7" and then an album or demo depending on how well the 7" did. I'll probably be looking at doing the same thing again in a month or so...

    • by TyrranzzX ( 617713 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @09:27PM (#7539663) Journal
      The problem is that our money based economy is becoming dated and it's beginning to show. A money economy is great when it takes work to produce goods but as the work it takes to make stuff goes down (invariably due to the reliable automation of many of our industries) the price will drop as well. When the cost of food, shelter, and entertainment drop to all time lows the demand for the amount of work that needs to get done will drop. Soon everyone only has to work 7 hours a day to keep the food and goods coming in, then 6, 5, 2, 1, and in time 0.

      This shifts an incredible amount of power and responsability onto the goverment and corperations. Another paradigm that will come into being is that media produced 20, 200, or 2000 years ago will still be popular today. Can you imagine the amount of music that can be created in this timespan? When demand is satiated, there is no demand. So why creat more media, for example, if there is already more than enough to last any one human their entire lifetime?

      What will need to take place is a fundemental shift from a greed and need based economy, to a curiousity based economy. If all the things a person needs are free, then there is no reason to work for them. Therefore, one would learn how a machine works because they are curious and want to while a class of elietists would be kept to ensure the system would be maintained.

      This may not happen for another thousand or two years, and may involve bloody uprisings and insurgencies, but it'll happen one way or another.
      • by b-baggins ( 610215 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:40PM (#7540011) Journal
        Today's wants are tomorrow's needs. You really ought to read some Adam Smith.

        The desire for goods and services will never go away. When food becomes free, people will take that money and spend it on other things. When those things become free, people will spend it on yet other things.

        If robots manufactured every material thing in the world for free, people would pay money for ideas. Or for the human touch of service, or for the nostalgia or curiosity of non-robot manufactured items.

        To want is a basic foundation of human nature. To say that some day we will never want (which is basically what your post maintains), is to completely ignore a fundamental human trait.
  • Negative Impact.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spence2680 ( 667507 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:01PM (#7538984)
    Hopefully this doesn't have any negative impact for the end users. It's always sad when the generic end user gets screwed because someone decided to hack/crack a product to give them additional functionality.
  • by Blackbox42 ( 188299 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:01PM (#7538986)
    Why release it with your name attached to it? Didn't he learn something after the whole De-CSS trial?
  • The next step (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:01PM (#7538987)
    I am the person who did the original testing for MacRumors. Here are the final steps:

    The raw aac file that QTFairUse produces can be played in a windows app called foobar [foobar.com].

    To play back in itunes is a little harder. One must run an application called faad.exe to fix the "atoms?" of the aac file. After that is done one must add the MPEG-4 wrappers using the program mp4creator found in MPEG4IPutils [hydrogenaudio.org]. Make sure to use the -optimize tag, or else the file will triple in size. After this is all done you end up with a m4a file with the decrypted aac content in a MPEG-4 wrapper playable in itunes.
    • Re:The next step (Score:4, Informative)

      by edbarrett ( 150317 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:50PM (#7539255)
      Don't you mean foobar2000 [foobar2000.org] using the AAC plugin [foobar2000.org]?
  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:02PM (#7538993)
    For any question related to DeCSS or QTFairUse, you can reach Jon at jon.johansen@sealandgov.com

    Here's a photo of his new place of residence [demon.co.uk] incidentally ...
  • Next up (Score:5, Insightful)

    by quizwedge ( 324481 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:03PM (#7539003)
    DRM in iTunes is changed. Please repurchase all of your old songs. Seriously, the DRM with Apple's music wasn't that bad. Why make it so that they have to change things around? Remember iTunes Music Sharing? You use to be able to stream from any computer to any computer. Since people didn't use it for personal use, they forced it to only work on the same subnet (thereby not allowing users at work to access music from their home machine). I wouldn't say Apple is perfect, but they're more on our side than Microsoft is.
  • Why do this? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Offwhite98 ( 101400 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:04PM (#7539011) Homepage
    By breaking the means the industry hopes to use to make their business viable you are only going to force them to cancel future projects which make music and other media easy for consumers to buy. Not everything can be free. Do you expect to get paid for a days work? And if Apple is forced to end their service because everyone just steals the music, then what will be left with? I will tell you. Microsoft will push a DRM-based protection scheme which is based on hardware and locks out non-Windows users.

    Stop screwing these companies!
    • Re:Why do this? (Score:3, Insightful)

      I say you are 100% wrong. I say that artificially limiting the functionality that digitization can provide is like saying, "I won't buy a car because cars are putting all those horse-and-buggy sellers out of business." I say that in order to move forward as a civilization we need to fully embrace the benefits of new technology and let new ideas about how to make a living using it emerge. DRM is just trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole. Instead, we should be concentrating on what new, never b
    • Re:Why do this? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by darnok ( 650458 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:42PM (#7539223)
      Consider the issue of DRM-enabled music from the perspective of someone who doesn't download illegal music, but who has a mix of devices (home stereo, desktop PC with CD player, MP3 player, laptop PC, car CD stacker, ...) that they use to listen to music. At a guess, there are quite a few people who fall into this category.

      There was a time just a few years ago when, if I bought a music CD, I could play it anywhere. I could play it at home, on my computer, in my car, in the PC at work... - whereever I wanted to play it, it worked. I could copy it to tape and listen to it in my Walkman, and it was all totally legal.

      Today, the record company model appears to be based around consumers buying music for use in exactly one device. Music CDs are now "enhanced" to try to prevent people playing them on their computers; paid-for, downloaded music is now DRM-wrapped so it can't be burned to music CDs and played on home stereos or in cars. Based on this, you have to assume record companies expect people to buy multiple copies of the same piece of music if they want to listen to it on a mixture of devices.

      That would be fine if I could buy several copies of a piece of music (as is now necessary to play in all my devices) for the same price or less than I used to pay for a single music CD that I could play on all of them. In fact, it would be a great thing if there was some music (e.g. music that I only listen to while working out, and not on my home stereo) that I only wanted to listen to on one type of device - I wouldn't need to buy the version that played on my home stereo, so I'd be saving some money.

      What the record companies have done, however, is to charge full price for each piece of music on each medium. Whereas before I could buy a single music CD for $X and play it anywhere, now I need to buy the music CD and download the DRM-wrapped WMA or AAC file and it costs more money than it did before.

      A lot of people would get upset at that point, but even that situation might be tolerable if (a) the record companies offered a bundle of both CD and WMA/AAC files at a suitably discounted cost, (b) they made the purchase process a particularly enjoyable experience, (c) they offered me some bonus over and above the music I'd paid for, such as maybe cheap/free concert tickets or a DVD of a few tracks, (d) any combination of the above. Unfortunately, none of these are happening.

      In a nutshell, people are expected to pay multiple times for something they used to pay for once. Not only that, they're told they're "stealing" if they don't, and are faced with ridiculous laws and enforcement techniques.
      • Re:Why do this? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by shark72 ( 702619 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @09:21PM (#7539648)

        "Music CDs are now "enhanced" to try to prevent people playing them on their computers; paid-for, downloaded music is now DRM-wrapped so it can't be burned to music CDs and played on home stereos or in cars."

        But in this case, music purchased from iTMS can be burned to CD and played on home stereos and in cars.

        Perhaps the question is "what specific problem does this hack address?". For practical purposes, the big one is:

        1. iTMS users were prevented from taking the music they'd downloaded, and then distributing it freely and widely by e-mailing it to all their friends or posting it on Kazaa.

        Are there any others? Is there something I'm missing? I'm aware that the iTunes software requires you to re-order your playlist after burning it ten times, but is downloading a DRM stripper really a better solution than just reordering your playlist?

        For now, I'm siding with what some others have said: Apple has gone out of their way to create a usable, affordable service with easy-to-live-with DRM. Their success has hopefully helped convince rightsholders that online distribution can work. Apple doesn't deserve to be pissed on like this.

      • Re:Why do this? (Score:5, Informative)

        by minus_273 ( 174041 ) <aaaaa@NOspam.SPAM.yahoo.com> on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:51PM (#7540052) Journal
        " paid-for, downloaded music is now DRM-wrapped so it can't be burned to music CDs and played on home stereos or in cars"

        This is exaclty what apple prevented. I dont think you even know what you are talking about. How about you go use itunes before you make a generic /.-type statement like that.
    • DRM Will Not Work (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Bob9113 ( 14996 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @01:34AM (#7540668) Homepage
      By breaking the means the industry hopes to use to make their business viable you are only going to force them to cancel future projects which make music and other media easy for consumers to buy.

      It is not possible for DRM to work. That's what researchers have been saying since day 1. If I can hear it, I can record it. These cracks aren't happening because people are unethical, they're happening because DRM is an inherently flawed idea. It's like asking people not to use pop-up blockers. Using an inherently broken technology in a way that is unpleasant to the end user is not ever going to stand the test of time. Even should police force be used it won't last forever - eventually the economic will of the consumer will be satisfied.

      This is not unlike the lesson learned from the dot-coms. It has to be both technologically practical and an improved satisfaction of wants or it will not work. Having one and wishing really hard that the other was true is like trying to sell the electric cars from the 1980's.

      The economic model behind music has got to change. Per-copy sales is not possible when copying has an arbitrarily close to zero cost. You can't charge for something that costs nothing.
  • Whats the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GabrielF ( 636907 ) <GJFishman@comcast . n et> on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:05PM (#7539017)
    There are plenty of programs out there that will capture your computer's audio output. WireTap for example is a free Mac utility from Amrbosia that does this. You can also burn your music to audio CD and re-rip it as an MP3. I don't see why this is a big deal. Apple's DRM is fair and people who buy songs from iTunes already have the opportunity of using something like KaZaA but have chosen not to. This isn't going to make any exclusive content available on KaZaA or anything. Reading the description I think the whole point is just to try to humiliate Apple and the music industry. If thats the case its a bad thing, because Apple is FINALLY turning the music industry around on digital music.
  • by marderj ( 725013 ) * on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:15PM (#7539069)
    Apple has been pretty liberal with their protected aac files compared to some other digital music retailers. Play on up to 3 computers, burn to cd, play on iPod. I've bought about 250-300 songs from iTMS and have never been inconvenienced by their DRM. Do you think their DRM being cracked might change any of this? I can just imagine the RIAA trying to use this as an excuse to implement some sort of draconian measures. For years now people have been screaming for fair online digital distribution. We finally get something that works well and is fair on both sides and some jackass cracks it. I sort of feel like next time the RIAA dupes some ignorant senator into introducing some insane bill that completely infringes on our rights we're not going to have a leg to stand on. Apple gave people what they asked for, then got shit on. What does everyone else think?
    • Ok, I'm sorry but this is a little short-sighted. Just because you happen to like iTunes doesn't mean that the rest of us do. People who use multiple OS's can't use the files. I can't use them in my MP3 player or in my Discman that plays MP3 CD's. I can't use them in my car stereo which does the same. I have to use Apple's idiot player to play the damn files. iTunes uses 30-40MB of RAM while running, that's not a price I'm willing to pay. Why should I? I have been using Winamp for years, I donated to the pr
      • by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent@jan@goh.gmail@com> on Saturday November 22, 2003 @09:09PM (#7539591) Homepage
        You don't have to use iTunes, you know. You don't have to buy Apple's music at all. What Apple is selling you is music that has to be listened to using their software and hardware. That's the ACTUAL product that you're getting. If you don't like the product, don't buy it, and don't ruin it for the rest of us. I hope Apple shuts this hole quickly so I don't have to put up with the RIAA imposing some draconian measure that only lets you play the songs on one computer during a full moon with four lawyers looking over your shoulder. It hasn't even reached Canada yet, and you're already trying to make it so that nobody has any right at all.

        Oh, and don't give me the line that you're doing this as some sort of protest and this is all very altruistic. Altruists don't hide in their basement, quietly breaking the law. If you're going to protest, get on the news. Shout your name and address to the heavens, say that you're going to keep doing this until your rights are acknowledged, and music is as free as you believe it should be. Breaking your terms of agreement with Apple in the safety of your home doesn't impress anyone, and doesn't get anything done.
      • by MoneyT ( 548795 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:06PM (#7539870) Journal
        Ok, I'm sorry but this is a little short-sighted. Just because you happen to like iTunes doesn't mean that the rest of us do. People who use multiple OS's can't use the files. I can't use them in my MP3 player or in my Discman that plays MP3 CD's.

        Jesus I''m sick and tired of hearing this shit over and over again. Look, the AAC files are designed to play on devices with AAC playback ability. If your portable won't play it, bitch at the manufacturer. Second, CDs won't play on my portable casset player, cassets wont play on my portable CD player and my CDs won't play on my iPod. You know what I do? I fucking convert the format like I always have and just like you can do with iTMS files. Jesus you people are whiney.
    • by X_Bones ( 93097 ) <danorz13 AT yahoo DOT com> on Saturday November 22, 2003 @08:48PM (#7539513) Homepage Journal
      You've hit the nail right on the head; you should get modded up all the way. If I can pay a buck a song and be able to play the file on my computer, burn it to a CD, and listen to it on an iPod, I'd say that's a pretty good deal. But this guy (who really, really should have known better after everything he's been through) releases a tool to strip DRM info from a song, and putting the code and ideas into the the hands and heads of anyone who wants it, and for what reason? For free distribution, I assume, or lossless conversion to MP3 (as opposed to burning and re-ripping it). Neither of these grant you too much more freedom of action (without breaking any laws, at least) beyond what is allowed already.

      So yeah, you're right, we cried and cried for a cheap and legal way to buy music over the internet, and now this idiot goes and cracks the DRM of the most liberal licensing scheme he could find. The RIAA is gonna scream bloody murder and foist more legislation on us, and I'm probably going to agree with them.
  • joys and sorrows (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jamienk ( 62492 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:17PM (#7539080)
    Joy: Being able to listen to any of my songs the second it occurs to me
    Sorrow: having to "authorize" myself to listen to music that I love

    Joy: sharing my favorite songs with my friends
    Sorrow: Having to spend hrs giving friends tech support dealing with work arounds to stupid DRM measures that make them feel lost

    Joy: finding new music that I love
    Sorrow: fearing getting busted for checking out someone's recomendation

    Joy: art, technology, freedom
    Sorrow: greedy fuckers; the constant vigilance freedom requires

    Joy: Cracking the shit out of IP
    Sorrow: It's come to this: having to justify it to the stupid Slashdot consumers
  • by snStarter ( 212765 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:26PM (#7539129)
    I don't get it. You can burn your own CD from the QT files you buy from the iTunes store right? And after they are on CD you can make MP3s of them and do what you will, no DRM associated with them.

    So, beyond the rather adolescent desire to hack the encryption, what problem does this solve? There's just no reason. Once they're on CD it's as if you bought them at the store.

    It's just ego.
  • wait a second... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by /dev/trash ( 182850 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:34PM (#7539171) Homepage Journal
    I thought that Jon was innocent, that he didn't actually write DeCSS but had help distribute it?
  • by Animaether ( 411575 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:35PM (#7539177) Journal
    I'm curious.. did he do this for a similar reason as the one he claims he created DeCSS for - namely to play back DVDs on Linux ?
    I can't seem to find it in any of the articles, nor in his blog.

    If there is no similar reason, does that mean that the reason of DeCSS's existence should be reviewed ?
    Was 'hollywood' right, and he really just wanted digital dumps of the movies, just as - seemingly - he just wants a non-AAC'd digital dump of the music here ?

    Not inciting a discussion on whether people should be allowed to do this in the first place - that's a whole other discussion :)
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:42PM (#7539224)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Apples Fence (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fsterman ( 519061 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @07:47PM (#7539247) Homepage
    The _very_ nice thing about Apple is that this stuff doesn't matter too much. It would be simple to convert all those AAC's into something else (be it mp3, AIFF, or even a higher AAC and back down) to get rid of the DRM. It's called a fence, you can jump it or you can respect it. Unlike most schemes that require complicated check in and out Apple had the guts and financial sense to do something that will satisfy both sides. It will be interesting to see if the notorious Apple legal will go after this. From what I remember they didn't bust down on people that extended the iTunes music sharing beyond the LAN.
  • Compressor (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 22, 2003 @08:02PM (#7539305)
    (posted anyonymously for the usual reasons)

    Another way to do this is with the Compressor program (by Apple) included with Final Cut Pro. Just drag the DRM'd AAC file into Compressor, choose AAC from the menu, and watch as it transcodes to unencrypted AAC. You can convert that to MP3 from iTunes if you want, or write up a little AppleScript to automate it. The only downside is that you lose the metadata tags (you could probably decode that format and write an application to convert them to IDv3 tags), but it works pretty well.

    Note: I'm posting this not because of any hatred for Apple, but because I like to be able to listen to my music on my SliMP3 [slimdevices.net] and this is the only way to do so besides burning and ripping from a CD.
  • NO! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by herrvinny ( 698679 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @08:11PM (#7539354)
    No, people, this is NOT a good thing! Can't people figure out when there's a good thing happening, that they should sit the hell down and let it be? Think about it. Apple's DRM was pretty easy to break, just write the songs to CD and rip them back, without DRM. But the RIAA will use this as an excuse to put more and more DRM, more and more legislation. They'll say, "Well, whatever the computer industry puts out, hackers break it, so we need more legislation." And the Senate, House, and Bush will sign anything into law! Come on people, this is a bad THING!
    • Re:NO! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mcpkaaos ( 449561 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @09:15PM (#7539622)
      FWIW, I completely agree with your post. Some folks are just so concerned with whether or not they can do something, they don't stop to consider whether they should, eh? I've always been fond of that saying, and it certainly applies in this circumstance. I'm afraid your dead on about the RIAA looking to use this as another excuse for even more legislation. Let's just hope they are too busy suing little Sally and all of her little friends to take notice.

      I hope folks will be careful with what they do with this, in any case. Unless you put it on a T-shirt - I could alternate days between that and my DeCSS shirt!

      Who are we joking. If this works, it'll spread across the net quicker than you can say "I set the socal fires". :(
    • Re:NO! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by prockcore ( 543967 )
      But the RIAA will use this as an excuse to put more and more DRM, more and more legislation. They'll say, "Well, whatever the computer industry puts out, hackers break it, so we need more legislation."

      News Flash: the RIAA doesn't need excuses to say whatever the hell they want to say. It's not like they were sitting around, hoping someone will break some DRM so they have a reason to demand more legislation.
  • Way to go (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cubicledrone ( 681598 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @08:36PM (#7539465)
    Apple does EXACTLY WHAT EVERYONE SAID THEY WANTED and they still get fucked over.

    This isn't about fair use any more. This is about "fuck over any company that uses price tags."

    This entire argument has lost every last shred of whatever legitimacy it may have once had.
    • Re:Way to go (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Bob9113 ( 14996 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:07AM (#7540746) Homepage
      This isn't about fair use any more. This is about "fuck over any company that uses price tags."

      This is the most rational statement I've seen in this thread so far.

      You are exactly right. The natural price of copies is zero. The market is moving toward that natural price (though you have found a more colorful way to express this economic identity). The cost of copying IP is zero. Therefore, the natural price of copies is zero (the natural price in an economic system is equal to the unit cost of production).

      This entire argument has lost every last shred of whatever legitimacy it may have once had.

      On this I must disagree. It is just now gaining the very first glimmer of legitimacy. When people were claiming that it was just a matter of having the right feature-set to make the consumer want to pay a non-zero price for a good with a zero unit cost of production, it had no legitimacy.

      I'm not saying this is a good thing (though that is also true, but requires a much longer discourse on price theory), but it is as true as gravity.
      • kinda (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Stu Charlton ( 1311 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @09:14AM (#7541669) Homepage
        Price isn't necessarily determined by costs, it's determined by what the market will bear. If the market will only bear 0 price music, then the system has broken down, and the opportunity cost of spending most of your time as an artist will become much steeper. We would dry up the primary pool of capital available that enables artistry as a profession instead of a hobby.

        This is not, in my opinion, in the interests of society, it's a tragedy of the (creative) commons.

        On the face of it, there needs to be recognition that all intellectual works are services, not products. This recognition could imply free copies as the norm, not the exception. But then we have a problem: the master copy costs $X to make and such costs (plus profit, which is really just a future cost) must be covered to create an economic system.

        The current system does this inequitably, but in an arguably much simpler manner than any potential alternatives: universal licensing, subscriptions, or perhaps, a capital-market model where you give the artist money after the fact to keep them making their art (whether software, music, etc.).

        I haven't heard of other viable alternatives from this crowd.
        • Re:kinda (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Bob9113 ( 14996 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @11:50AM (#7542364) Homepage
          I wish I had points and could mod a thread I've commented on. Your post is excellent. A few public points, then I'm off to your blog to try to contact you.

          Price isn't necessarily determined by costs, it's determined by what the market will bear.

          You're talking demand side, I'm talking supply side. Both are upper limits on the price, and act independently.

          On the demand side, I think that the market would bear higher-than-zero prices for copies (as demonstrated by music sales in the pre-MP3 era (PME, haha)). Assuming this is the case, the demand side can't explain current behavior.

          On the supply side, if copying has a zero cost, a manufacturer will always step into the profit margin between zero and the current price of copies - new manufacturers keep appearing at a lower price until the profit margin approaches zero. This is exactly what the original Napster was, incarnated at Internet speed. It is also what the Southeast Asian piracy market is all about.

          If the market will only bear 0 price music, then the system has broken down, and the opportunity cost of spending most of your time as an artist will become much steeper.

          I think you've shifted in this sentence to talking about the natural price of music. I strongly believe that the natural price of music is extremely non-zero. It has both demand side value (I love music, and buy a lot of disks (yes, still - as it stands I don't feel personally justified in pirating)) and supply side value (I play guitar - there is definitely a non-zero cost of producing new music).

          But then we have a problem: the master copy costs $X to make and such costs (plus profit, which is really just a future cost) must be covered to create an economic system.

          Ahh, here we go, the supply side. Keep going, you're getting close.

          a capital-market model where you give the artist money after the fact to keep them making their art (whether software, music, etc.).

          Yes. YES. YES. You've hit the nail on the head. The problem is how? Well then, off to your blog.
  • by sjonke ( 457707 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:30PM (#7539960) Journal
    For most the limitations of the iTMS tracks probably isn't an issue, for me it is and as such I choose not to buy music from it, instead to buy a CD and rip to unprotected AAC. We have more than 3 computers I would like to be able to play music on. An older iMac hooked up to the stereo which is the main in-home music box. A computer that is destined to reside in the trunk of my car hooked up to the car stereo. A PowerBook that I use commonly to play music at work and an older iBook that gets used to play the music from the iMac elsewhere in the house. I can't use all 4 for Apple DRM'd music. Why not? They are our computers and its our music and I should be able to play the music on any of them. Why only 3 allowed? If the number were 100 it would be just as effective at stopping mass distribution and such a number really wouldn't limit legal owners of the music.

    As such I look forward to a completed version of this tool and its availability on the Mac (though I presumably could run the Windows version in VirtualPC). Not to get music from others (as has been noted it wouldn't offer anything you can't already get via other easier means) but to allow me to use music purchased on iTMS as I see fit and without audio quality loss. Indeed the availability of this tool would make me reconsider purchasing music from the iTMS - currently there's compelling enough reasons to no do so and so I don't.
  • by fydfyd ( 150665 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @10:56PM (#7540068)
    Sometime in the Windows Media Player 7 or 8 era I decided to start ripping my legally purchased (or licensed?) collection of CDs for listening while at my computer. I did not share these files with any one else nor did I listen to it in two places simultaneously. At the time the default media encoder produced rips with DRM.

    I then made the poor choice of upgrading from Win2k to XP with no expectation that it would have any effect on the hours I spent ripping my collection to my computer for my use. Perhaps it is the price of stupidity, but my online collection was rendered immediately useless because WMP decided I was on a new computer and therefore had stolen my rips from myself.

    I have been a very satisfied user of iTunes/iTMS and have spent considerable money purchasing from iTMS. Under iTunes Advanced menu there is an item "Deauthorize Computer...". I fear even selecting this item and unwittingly invalidating hundreds of USD in iTMS purchases. I also have no idea what will happen should I decide to upgrade my CPU, add a drive, or even change the IP address of my machine. Or, perish the thought, have to reload XP because I have the poor taste to run Outlook or IE. Suffice to say, all of my iTMS purchases have been burned to CD-R because I'm not quite that stupid.

    So here is one legitimate user who wants to not run afoul of the RIAA who may end up with direct losses because I don't have control over my purchased product.
  • by localman ( 111171 ) on Saturday November 22, 2003 @11:17PM (#7540143) Homepage
    People are _obviously_ willing to pay (oh, say, about $.99) for good download speeds and high-quality encoding. Most people who use the Music Store don't care that it's "legal" or "right" or whatever. Apple just found the right price point for what they offer -- a better user experience than the free services like KaZaa, Gnutella, etc.

    However... I have had some very annoying problems with the iTunes DRM recently. Got the main logic board replaced in my laptop (by Apple) and suddenly couldn't play my purchased music. Couldn't re-authorize because I'd already authorized three machines and now one was gone forever (didn't know in advance that they'd be replacing the logic board, or that I would lose my rights if they did). Had to email support and wait about 48 hours to get my music back by deauthorizing the other computer. And they warned me that "we don't normally do this".

    Another time I wanted to email a song to a friend -- I thought he'd like it and maybe buy the album. Of course he couldn't play it. Nice.

    More recently I purchased music and I was _never_ able to play it -- I'm told it's already authorized on three machines even though I've yet to play it once. Whatever. I guess I have to contact Apple support again.

    I don't feel this is really Apple's fault -- they've done as well as you can with DRM, but the fact is that it just sucks. I now realize that I paid for an _inferior_ product to what I could have gotten for free. I would rather download a bit slower, get a lower bitrate, and be able to use my damn music like I can with any other medium!

    Now, if they combined high-quality, fast dowloads, and free usage, then most people would STILL buy the the songs for $.99 and they would actually be happy with their purchase a year or two later when they've had to move it across machines or whatever other diallowed activieties that we normally do without thinking when using CD's or whatever. As it is, I think people will sour on this over time.

    Okay -- I'm rambling now, but the point is that they'd be doing at least as well without the DRM, and customers would be happier longterm. That's how they should be competing with P2P -- not by putting out products that are superior in some ways and vastly inferior in others.

    Stupid RIAA. I'm glad to pay for what I want if you offered it. As it is I think I'll go steal some RIAA music. Or buy some independent stuff.

    Cheers all.
    • by Obiwan Kenobi ( 32807 ) * <evan@@@misterorange...com> on Sunday November 23, 2003 @01:36AM (#7540675) Homepage
      Another time I wanted to email a song to a friend -- I thought he'd like it and maybe buy the album. Of course he couldn't play it. Nice.

      I think the word you're looking for is "Duh."

      I don't feel this is really Apple's fault -- they've done as well as you can with DRM, but the fact is that it just sucks.

      DRM is not in the shape it needs to be, but it looks like it may never be. There simply isn't a non-invasive approach that can still tell how many times you've used said goods, and where, and keeps track of it legally.

      Apple has done the best they can, and it's certainly less invasive than Microsoft's own DRM.

      I now realize that I paid for an _inferior_ product to what I could have gotten for free. I would rather download a bit slower, get a lower bitrate, and be able to use my damn music like I can with any other medium!

      Firstly, you didn't pay for iTunes. You paid for the song(s). If you think they are an inferior product, stop buying them.

      If you feel that you can jump on Kazaa and download a song, then that is your right. But you forked over your $.99 and, as a geek, you really have no room to talk as to how you were 'hoodwinked' into buying something inferior.

      At this point I equate your rant to a child screaming for a piece of candy, then complaining about it when the candy got on his clothes. "They need to make better candy," the child would say.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @02:29AM (#7540808)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Cause thats all a hack like this will do.

      So we are to live in fear of an unjust corporation? We are to sacrafice our rights (yes, our RIGHTS) so as not to anger this bully?

      I'm sorry, but I think you've got it backwards. It's abusing your customers that is "over".

      I am glad to pay for music (and have paid for all I have). But you better sell it to me on fair terms or you've lost a customer and will encourage a black market.

      Imagine if LP's, tapes, or CD's could only be played on up to three players. R
  • by Anonymous Freak ( 16973 ) <anonymousfreak@i[ ]ud.com ['clo' in gap]> on Sunday November 23, 2003 @03:28AM (#7540975) Journal
    First, by the terms of service for the iTunes Music Store, you cannot do this. Attempting to circumvent the DRM renders your license to use iTunes null and void, and violates the terms of the Music Store, letting Apple cut you off. (Not that it matters to those who do this sort of thing.) Likewise, attempting to circumvent DRM violates the well-respected and highly loved DMCA, which could land you in jail.

    Second, I feel that I have purchased this music, Apple phrases it as me purchasing it (rather than 'renting' it,) so I should be able to do whatever I want with it. The same as I can do whatever I want with a CD. As long as it doesn't break copyright law. For example, what happens if, god forbid, Apple closes its doors five years from now. It's very conceivable that I could still have my current Mac in 5 years, with all my purchased music. What happens when, two months after the doors close, I get myself a nice new G7 system at fire-sale prices? I obviously wouldn't be able to authorize that computer. And the RIAA wouldn't let Apple 'unlock' all music upon closure of Apple. So they only way to get my music to work on this new computer would be to use un-DRMed copies. So I can see a perfectly legitimate use for this.

    As a note on my ethics: Once upon a time, I downloaded music off the internet. I downloaded movies off the internet. (And pr0n. LOTS of pr0n...) I downloaded software off the internet. (I also used Windows, which, to me, was the worst of my transgressions. :-) Nowadays, I don't. I don't agree with the RIAA, MPAA, and SPA, but I don't feel right violating copyright laws, either. I couldn't care less about my neighbors/friends/relatives/customers. If they feel like using an illegal copy of Windows, fine. (I'm a computer consultant, so it usually means more money for me fixing their computer.) But, I have ripped all my CDs to my computer, I have backup copies of all my software CDs (with the originals stored in a waterproof box in the basement,) and I often copy DVD-Videos to my hard drive so they are easier to watch later. So I like the ability to do what I want with my data, but I won't use those means to break any copyright laws. (Other than the DMCA, because I see the circumvention of DRM as a basic 'fair use' right, not as something that should be illegal.) One recent example is that I rented "Finding Nemo", but didn't get around to watching it before it was due. So I copied it to my computer, watched it the next day, then deleted it. That is considered fair use. I paid for the right to watch the movie for a limited time. I watched it, then 'returned' it (by both returning the DVD, and deleting the copy.) So I was within my fair use rights.

    In closing, I will probably download this utility (or a final, fully functional version,) and just keep it on a disc somewhere, for the 'just in case'. Since everything I want to do with my purchased music falls within the limits of what Apple's DRM lets me do, I have no reason to use it. But, as in my example, if I ever have a need to move my music to a new computer, and the ability to authorize computers has gone away, I would want the ability to get around it. (Look at what happened to those Divx users. Some people purchased the 'unlimited' versions, and they're worthless now that the Divx service has closed. Not very unlimited.)

    P.S. Yes, this violates the iTMS terms of service. Period. The terms of service say that doing ANYTHING to circumvent DRM revokes your rights. Even burning to Audio CD, and re-ripping into MP3 (or AIFF, or AAC...) can be considered a 'circumvention', because you did something expressly to rid the music of DRM. So all of you trying to justify it by saying that it isn't technically removing DRM need to re-read the terms of service (and the DMCA, for that matter.) ANYTHING you do that ends up with a non-DRMed file is circumventing DRM.
  • by kageryu255 ( 674465 ) on Sunday November 23, 2003 @03:52AM (#7541046)
    Great. I bet this completely hoses the Thanksgiving vacations of a large number of Apple employees. I wonder how many people in legal, software engineering, QA, and the make-nice-with-the-record-companies departments just had their plans for the week yanked right out from under them.

    Not to mention that this really damages a Good Thing.. even the most zealous anti-DRM person has to be able to understand that'll be easier to get the record industry to loosen their frantic grasp one finger at a time than to try to wrest their precious billions away from them and force drastic change. Yeah, bad for the big companies, big deal... but bad for the artists, bad for the Apple employees who worked their butts off to create this, bad for the end users when the record companies start calling it a failed experiment.

    I have sympathy for those who have difficulty with Apple's DRM terms. I hit the 3-computer cap myself... 2 machines at work, 1 laptop at home, 1 desktop at home, my girlfriend's tower... However, I have NO sympathy for people who bitch about it like Apple's out to ruin them. That clause about Apple reserving the right to change the terms whenever they want? If a huge petition is delivered to Apple politely clamoring for that limit to be raised to 4 or even 5 computers, who's to say they wouldn't do it, or at least try to convince the record companies? People who complain about it not being international? If they missed it, I suggest they check into the news that Apple is in heavy talks to get iTMS launched for international customers. If they saw that news and ignored it, then they should STFU.

    The iTMS isn't Apple out to rip off customers.. Apple has publicly admitted it's not a profit generator. It's there as an innovation, a jedi hand wave to get the record companies to realize there is a better way, to start them willingly down the path to change. I know a lot of people who spent 80+ hour weeks getting the iTMS launched, and their biggest fear was that someone would break the FairPlay system and bring it all crashing down.. while the impact to sales is hard to predict, how can these paranoid record companies who have til yet regarded online music download services as their big enemy (even if they're just a scapegoat for their own mistakes) learn to embrace this new technology that can be good for everyone?

    Trying to force revolution upon the record companies will just make them lash out, act irrationally, and fight all that much harder. It's better to get them to decide that what consumers want really is the right path. They have to make that decision.. then they think it's their idea, and they're much happier to go along with it!

    My opinion all boils down to one Japanese proverb about three feudal warlords:

    What if the bird will not sing?

    Nobunaga answers, "Kill it!"

    Hideyoshi answers, "Make it want to sing."

    Ieyasu answers, "Wait."

    Which of these is going to be the most effective? I guess your answer has a lot to do with your personality and the techniques you use to attain your goals.. but in feudal Japan, I think it's fair to say that Nobunaga's power was dramatic but short lived, Ieyasu's was complete but he had to wait quite a long time.. in fact, until everyone else had disappeared... Hideyoshi's story was the most impressive as he rose from a farmer's son employed as a sandal-bearer to absolute ruler of Japan.

    (OT: If that story intrigues anyone, check out the book "Taiko" by Eiji Yoshikawa -- he also wrote one about Musashi, the swordsman famous for his strategy and two-katana techniques)

Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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