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Music Businesses Media Software Utilities (Apple) Apple

A netMD Solution for the Mac? 58

Posted by Cliff from the don't-fear-the-apple dept.
SmackyTheFrog asks: "I recently purchased a Minidisc player with netMD capability. At first this was fine because I always had my trusty PC near by. Now that I have gone off to college, I no longer have the space for my big beige box and I only have my PowerBook with me. Much to my dismay I discovered that Sony has decided not to grace the Mac with any netMD software. Are there ways to get netMD (ie 3 or more hours of audio) music onto a single minidisc using a Mac?"
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A netMD Solution for the Mac? More

A netMD Solution for the Mac?

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  • Not a lot of choice. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Oscar_Wilde ( 170568 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:34PM (#7286179) Homepage
    Sadly Sony doesn't seem to care about these things (which might explain why MD isn't as popular as it could be). You can always try Xmd [sorted.org] but it is currently limited in what it can do.

    If you can afford it you might want to look into getting an old model iPod.

  • You must... (Score:3, Informative)

    by pbox ( 146337 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:35PM (#7286194) Homepage Journal
    You must have aversion for sound quality. Minidisc is already heavily compressed to fit 70 minutes of music, what do you get when you fit 3 hours worth of it? Something just a bit worse than 64kbps mp3?

    Maybe you could invest into a 64 or 128 MB Samsung Yepp with USB. That sould not be more than $100. Or get the Rio Karma 1.5GB (that houses X times more music) for $70. See slickdeals.net.

    Boycott Sony.

    • in defense of MiniDisc (Score:2, Informative)

      by klez23 ( 524506 )

      You must have aversion for sound quality.

      Have you ever used MD? It has great quality, and has for the last 6 years at least.

      Standard (SP) MiniDisc encoding is 292kbps ATRAC. ATRAC in general is slighly more faithful than Fraunhofer MP3, so this is roughly equivalent to 320kbps (certainly better than 256kbps) MP3. That's pretty damn good sound quality, and that's what you get when you put 74 minutes of music (or 148 minutes of mono audio) on the disc.

      The LP modes use a newer codec, ATRAC 3 (where was A

    • So you've never tried an MD right?

      Seriously i use the highest compression rate, Atrac3+ which lets me put over FIVE hours onto a single MD. The audio quality is as good as listening to the original CD, at least in headphones (pedantic audiophiles may see things differently!). 5hrs in one tight little package is much better value than most mp3 players around!!

      Of course, the software that comes with it for windaz is shite, use RealOne Player with the Sony devices plugin instead. But back to the real top
  • The NetMD Minidisc recorders/players I've been eyeballing claim to accept MP3 files.

    Question: are these files being converted to ATRAC format, or are they written raw and played back using an MP3 codec?

    My concern is that if they're converting the file, it's going from lossy MP3 to lossy ATRAC format, which just isn't going to have a good-sounding result.
  • Why did you even buy a minidisc player?

    Even with a PC, it's about as useless as a single media device can be.

    Please tell me it was forced upon you. And if so, cut your losses and cut them early.

    • I cannot reply for the original poster, but there are several good reasons... 1. You don't need a computer to play/record MDs. The basic principles of audio editing are quite simple (title, move, split and join tracks), and some models have very good interface/ergonomy. 2. MDs sound better than MP3 (at the regular compression rate) and MP3 players suck anyway, yes I mean the iPod too. 3. You can record with a tiny MD player. I cannot stress how important this is. If you're a musician, this is one handy t
      • 2. MDs sound better than MP3 (at the regular compression rate) and MP3 players suck anyway, yes I mean the iPod too.
        If I were worried about MP3 or AAC sounding bad, I could use my iPod to play uncompressed AIFF or WAVE audio.

        Uncompressed audio ripped from the CD is going to sound better than ATRAC compressed audio.
        • You could play AIFF or WAV on an iPod(I have a 20 second WAV on mine), but the 30 minute buffer memory is a lot shorter with uncompressed media, and at the least it would mean less battery life, if not more wear and tear on the hard drive.

    • My NetMD holds about 70 songs. It's small and it can play for 60+ hours with ONE SINGLE AA battery. I'm no audiophile so I can't tell the difference in sound quality at all. Plus it costed me less than 100 bucks. I'd take this over an expensive IPod any day.

  • Xmd (Score:3, Insightful)

    by p-p-pom ( 716823 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:01PM (#7286490)
    First off, fitting 3 or more hours of audio has nothing to do with NetMD, this is the so-called Long Play mode (LP2 fits twice as much audio, and LP4 fits four times as much). Of course you have to accept a less than perfect sound fidelity for the higher compression rate. As for NetMD on the Mac, there's an application called Xmd [sorted.org] that can do several interesting things like titling (good! especially if you choose to go with LP4 and have dozens of tracks on your MD) and playback, but it doesn't allow you to download music to your MD. And anyway, NetMD won't allow to download tracks *from* your MD to your computer (even, maybe especially, the official Sony software) which renders it next to useless in any case.

    • Re:Xmd (Score:2)

      by mnmn ( 145599 )
      ...that can do several interesting things like titling...

      That last word of yours sounds dirty but I have no clue what it means.
      • Unfortunately titling is not very kinky. But Xmd can help you title the tracks on your MD (and the MD itself), which is much easier to do on a computer than on the MD device itself.
  • I've been looking, and I can't find anything either.. Sorry man. I'm sure somebody's working on a SonicStage hack for Mac users, but nothing concrete yet.

    As an aside, I have to second the question above, why did you buy a minidisc player? I'm sure that as a /. reader, you're familiar with your other options; it seems like unless you got a -really- great deal on it, an eBay'd iPod would have been a better choice.

    Oh well. Good luck with that, and enjoy your new toy. _

  • Lemme get this straight... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @10:11PM (#7287363) Homepage Journal
    You have a nice Apple Powerbook, and an unsupported MiniDisc player, and you want to transfer highly compressed 3-subband audio over USB?

    If I may suggest a two step solution: 1. Ebay 2. iPod

    you get: way more storage, way more quality, way more vendor support, and way more transfer speed. It looks like you're in for about a hundred bucks for an eBay upgrade.
    • ... but until Griffin [griffintechnology.com] comes out with a new product (my money is on them) or Belkin updates its 'voice recorder [belkin.com]' with a mic-in jack, the Mini-Disc still has the edge over the iPod as to being a great portable recorder/bootlegging device.

      then again, the MiniDisc "should have" supported optical transfer from it to a digital optical in, such as the one the new G5s ship with, to really stay 'interesting'. right now, it's only useful to record. soon, it won't be useful at all. :-)

      Greg
    • I have an MD (Sharp, 24bit ATRAC) that I use instead of a portable DAT, because for field recording (no, really, recording ambience in a quiet field), interviews, and non-synch video sound it sounds excellent when coupled with a good mic.

      While I drool over the possibilities of an iPod with an attachment providing mic and line inputs along with a low-or-no compression method of recording to the HD, it seems a long way off. For flexibility, you can't beat an MD in that respect, despite the nasty nasty copy p

  • tough situation (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    if only there were some kind of portable music player that you could use with a Mac. What would really be great is if it took regular MP3 files, and stored a lot of them, like maybe 1-2GB worth.

    That would be sweet.

    Maybe someday somebody will step up to the plate and fill this need.
  • Would virtualpc work? I have no idea, I don't own a mac. But I think it might.

    Eventually libnetmd [sourceforge.net] will be completed. That would be your best bet.

    Personally, I think OpenMG (the sony program for managing your MD) is the most god-awful piece of software developed in some dark corner of Sri Lanka. It is very unstable, clunky, and limited. I hate it so much I ended up using Real One to upload music to my MD.. and I hate Real software as well (because it keeps hooking itself in my registry).. but at least the
    • As a Powerbook and NetMD Owner, I can say this doesnt work.

      Virtual PC on a 12" PB is average to say the least. The supposed lack of L3 Cache on the CPU Is the 'quoted' reason as to why this is the case.

      I installed Sony's SonicStage (Crappy on a normal pc, even worse and clunkier under VPC) and tried to 'encode' an MP3 to ATRAC. After 3 hours and my Powerbook being hot enough to fry an egg, It was around 8% done.

      Short answer is, no. At least thats the case with a 12" PB. Can anyone confirm if its the same
      • mp3 conversion is incredibly slow on their software. Burn the mp3 to an image, mount the image as a CD and record the CD on the MD; it'll be much faster.
    • Wholeheartedly agreed. I hated using it so much, i returned my Sony "mp3" player to Circuit City (which wasn't easy, mind you; but the morons at that store are a whole other topic...).
      Sony's ACRAP3 compression churns out more snaps, crackles, and pops than those 3 rice-eating elves.
  • I'm a recent convert. I got to Mac just because I hate windoze, love Linux, but hate even more how I kept blowing up my desktop box or wasting away entire weekends everytime I went in pursuit of the next shiny trinket that wasn't rolled into whatever the distro D'jour was. Needless to say, enter OS X. BTW, all I could afford at this time was an iBook 800 but I'm much happier now nonetheless. I still use Linux for my house server/NAT box/firewall etc.

    So, yes, I too have an MD. Personaly, I think it's pretty
  • I just purchased an Sony D-NF611 [electronics-online.co.uk]. Can Someone suggest my way IF I can play the atrac files encoded for the some on my Windows Machine..

    Thanks.. .::abbu::.
  • ...I used to run a site on MD. Sony views the Apple/Mac platform as competition, and will never support it. Two years ago, I contacted a Russion hacker that was trying to reverse engineer NetMD for Linux, and perhaps Mac, but that ended up dead.

    Bottom line...no NetMD support for the Mac.

    Buy an iPod.
    • "I contacted a Russion hacker that was trying to reverse engineer NetMD for Linux, and perhaps Mac, but that ended up dead."

      Most likely so did the hacker! Or someone scared him shit-less You do not mess with big corporations in Russia. The Government has not got the resources to prosecute corporations so they have free reign.

  • I can see 2 parts of problem :
    1. encoding to/from ATRAC
    2. Downloading to/from device.

    on p.1 go there:
    http://faac.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.ph p ?page=AT RAC
    there stated that ATRAC is used in RealAudio 8 so may be you can find appropriate tools from this side.

    on p.2 try with Toast instead Nero this: (from your link)

    Five easy steps to a clean and hassle free MP3->MD download

    Open Nero, select Audio CD from the presets and drag all the MP3's you want into it. Nero is far less picky about formats and s

  • Apparently iTunes is the answer! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by foniksonik ( 573572 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @02:39AM (#7288477) Homepage Journal
    http://www.tmdc.org/aramk/sandbox/minidisc.html [tmdc.org]

    Here's one excerpt, though you should read the page for all the info:

    "Transferring (Analog)

    Doing an analog transfer is very simple - first, plug the analog cable from your Mac's headphone out jack into your recorder's analog input (on Sharp model's, this is the same as Line In). Now, open your MP3 player on your computer, and create a new playlist. In iTunes, this is done in the left hand side by pressing the + button.

    Now, drag and drop MP3s in to this list and order them how you wish. Once you're done, you might want to add a blank 5 second sound between tracks to better allow your MD player to create the track marks [ Download 5 second blank track ]. Important notes: make sure that the playlist is not longer than the medium yourrecording to; if you're using a 74 minute MD, your playlist must be less than 74 minutes unless you are planning to use LP2 or LP4 compression. Once you're ready, simply press the record button on your recorder and press play in the MP3 program. While it's recording, check to make sure that the sound level is OK. If you think you need to adjust it; do so on the Mac by changing the system volume."

    hehehehe was it ever so easy, except on a Mac?

  • Well, you could just record through the line in or optical in jacks that every MD recorder (AFAIK) has. Just plug your CD player or computer soundcard into the MD, and hit record. It works almost just like a cassette recorder. You only gain two things from the software: faster transfers, and digital transfers. Digital transfers can also be done from some CD players, and even some soundcards (I had an M-Audio Dio 2448 for this purpuse in my pre-Mac, pre-NetMD days).

  • I switched to a TiPB and iPod (from a Tosh and Sony NetMD).

    I love my iPod (using Shure E2 in-ear monitors) but when I travel, access to a power supply can at times be "difficult" (say on the side of a mountain or in the jungle), hence I prefer the MD player's longer battery life.

    For those of you who want to "have your cake and eat it" and enjoy the strengths of both the iPod and the NetMD..

    May I suggest using something like the Xitel Pro-HiFi Link http://xitel.com/ It has a USB in and a TOC-link out to f
    • Looking at the link in the story, I see those things have a battery life of 30 - 110 hours. Damn. That's pretty sweet.

      How much music do they hold, anyway? (Just gimme a rough estimate.)

      And no, I'm not giving up my iPod. :)
      • I have a G2 iPod so I am "lucky" to have a 9-10 hour battery. But when I travel I use the MD player. Yes "sweet" at 30 - 110 hours. I used to charge it once a month.

        Anyway, the only issue with MD is the "storage".
        - a regular disc holds 74/80 mins
        - using NetMD you can x2 or x4 the time of music stored at the cost of the quality/bitrate.
        - using a Xitel link, you are effectively only recording in real time and at x1. But you retain the sound quality.
        - you have to carry only your "favourite" selection of m
    • Another option would be the iMic USB audio I/O device. It also is a USB device which has a line in and line out. I got one because my TiPB 500 doesn't have audio in but it would work just as well for this purpose. Plus it's only $39.99

      http://www.griffintechnology.com [griffintechnology.com]
  • Shut the hell up will you? Seriously, this guy came looking for advice and you bash him for his choice over an iPod.

    The iPod just recently on the last release added support for recording. I have not been able to find any specs on this. Nowhere does it say what format it records in or at what quality. The only "approved"mic is for voice and in mono.

    I bought a MD. Yeah that's right, because I wanted to do field recording with a small device. Show me an iPod that can get a high quality stereo field rec
  • Run Windows on your Mac with SoftWindows (Classic / OS 9 environment) or Virtual PC (OS X). Inelegant, and I HATE having Windows, but I have it because of work requirements. It works.
  • have you looked here: http://www.minidisco.com/netmd-info.html [minidisco.com]?
    sounds like the open/nmd project might be for you.

    and to all of those giving this guy crap for his netmd - i have one and love it. i tested out an ipod last week for a few days. different but no better.

    the netmd battery lasts longer, there is no gap between tracks and no penalty for long tracks. it can record easily. (for someone who listens to lots of mix cds and dj mixes, the benefits are esp important.)

    it just depends on what you want
  • I've been using Minidiscs since 1997 and I am quite happy with them. Until iPods (or other portable hard-disk players) have good quality stereo recording with both line and optical inputs, I can't see how I could replace portable MD recorders.

    That said, here's how I transfer digital audio from the PBG4 to the Sharp MD mt-877 portable (using this one now after a Sharp 722 and a Sharp 702):

    PBG4 USB out -> USB cable -> Edirol -> optical cable -> Sharp MD in

    This Edirol UA3 [edirol.com] has been working fine

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