Apple to Launch iTunes for Windows 607
An anonymous reader writes "According to this AppleInsider.com article published earlier this morning, Apple has planned an event for next Thursday to formally introduce their iTunes player and online music store for the Windows platform."
Moving on Other's Turf (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Moving on Other's Turf (Score:2)
The wait (Score:5, Interesting)
The bigger wait though is maybe a month or so...to see just how well it does. iTunes Music Store was a wild success the first day, the time to their milestone song sales, and so forth. All done on machines that command a mere 5% of the market share. So...what happens when the other 95% gets to play?
Re:The wait (Score:2)
Windows iPod users and the youth market (Score:5, Insightful)
Just before rolling out the dual-platform iPods, Apple was reporting that the Windows version of the iPod was selling at the same rate as the Mac version. With those rough numbers in hand, if you count on a similar conversion rate for the Music Store (I know, it's a wild ass guess), it seems that the Windows version should get at least as many customers as the Mac version.
Those who argue that Mac users are zealots are ignoring a few things. For one, Apple is slowly convincing Windows users that Apple can make great non-Mac products. Second, Apple's brand image in the youth market is extraordinarily strong [wired.com]. If there was ever a market dominated by youth tastes, music is it.
Reports of Apple arriving in the Windows music game too late ignore the fact that nobody else has been able to implement a Windows music service that consumers actually like. I don't think we'll see the Windows Music Store getting 20x the volume of the Mac version, but I do think it will be immediately profitable.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Creative Nomad compatibility? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. (Score:2)
iTunes saw it immediately, and I was able to copy mp3s to it like any other device.
It isn't as easy as the iPod (you can't have it automatically sync on 3rd-party devices) but it will work for you.
Now, whether or not the Nomad supports AAC, I don't know.
Re:Creative Nomad compatibility? (Score:2)
I doubt there will be built-in support, so it won't be as easy as working with an iPod, but you can just add your existing MP3 collection to the iTunes Library, and continue using your Nomad as you have been.
However, s
Re:Creative Nomad compatibility? (Score:3, Informative)
The AAC format is an OPEN STANDARD.
This is similar to what is stopping Apple from putting Ogg on the iPod... Apple's decision.
Now, on the flip side...
I don't suppose that the new music services using WMA files would be compatible with the iPod.
No - and that is not Apple's fault. WMA files are a closed, proprietary standard.
I hope its better than Quicktime (Score:5, Interesting)
I also hope it themeable because by default the color it pretty ugly. I don't know that much about ITunes, but one thing I do know is that unless it obeys XP themes or like I said is themeable, its going to stick out like a sore thumb.
Either way I still look forward to trying it out when I get a chance and also of course trying out the Music store.
btw how are they handling the whole DRM thing?
Re:I hope its better than Quicktime (Score:2)
I'm sure it will stick out just as much as QuickTime does. It will not be themable. QuickTime Player is sort of themable in a way (the movie can contain a theme, which of course only works while you're playing that movie), but nobody uses this, and iTunes won't do it.
btw
I tend to stay away from these (Score:2)
Feel and Look at? (Score:2)
I would gladly have a subscription to eMusic [emusic.com] (well, before Nov 8th maybe) than a stack of empty CD cases lying in my closet and whats left of my stolen CDs, scratched in my car.
iPod (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Market share... (Score:2, Insightful)
Since iTunes for Windows will be (presumably) free to download and try why wouldn't someone give it a try for $.99?
If they like the experience, then they will come back. Simple as t
Re:Market share... (Score:3, Interesting)
Heh... (Score:2)
Re:Heh... (Score:2)
And so... (Score:2)
Sorry, Dell. Sorry, Creative. And all the rest. You can't give me the value that Apple can right now.
WooHoo! (Score:3, Funny)
Any technology distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced.
Features I'd like to see (Score:3, Interesting)
Anybody know?
Re:Features I'd like to see (Score:3, Informative)
Install the SLiMP3 server software on your Mac. It reads the iTunes database, and streams out on port 9000. The other player (Windows, Linux...whatever) opens up the stream on http://:9000/stream.mp3, and then you open a browser window to http://:9000 to control what gets played.
It's not perfect - one hassle I found was that the client machine had often buffered so much that it took a while to respond to my commands on the web
Neato, but... What about the children?!! ;) (Score:3, Insightful)
How are children supposed to get credit cards and go online as easily as popping down to the mall with some extra cash? This means one of two things. Either a way will be found that children will be able to get credit more easily (pay cash by ATM for instance) or the industry will have to move towards a less age-centric approach to their sales.
After all, if I know that I could get some of the obscure Pink Floyd or Supertramp Euro stuff out there online, I'd pay for it. I'm certainly not going to find that sort of thing at your local Circuit City!
Re:Neato, but... What about the children?!! ;) (Score:2)
Re:Neato, but... What about the children?!! ;) (Score:2)
Such cards might be offered at places like drugstores and grocers.
I predict we'll see this become popular in the next three years or so.
what I want in a music service (Score:5, Insightful)
what I want is for my $.99 is:
a: 1 (drm restricted) full CD quality track (that I can write to CD a limited number of times using their tool)
b: 1 high bit-rate drm restricted mp3/ogg/wma equivalent for i-pod type devices
c: 1 128bps (drm or no drm) mp3 equivalent for flash based mp3 players.
that way they can be happy about controlling my access and I can still get decent quality sound..
Re:what I want in a music service (Score:2)
The iPod supports AAC, and I can hear the difference on the headphones.
I'm not sure if other players can play AAC, but then Creative said nobody would want that format...
What would be the point (Score:2)
For $.99, I want the bloody cd audio track uncompressed, with no drm, and the right to share it as I see fit. At $.99 a song, I can buy a real CD used ($8-$10 f
Re:what I want in a music service (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry. They had to draw a line somewhere. Feel free to purchase the music in other places.
I honestly don't understand how audiophiles and audiophile wanna-bees don't get this. This is a MASS MARKET targeted service. Its not targeted to audiophiles. Its not complicated or hidden or even confusing.
What I think you're upset about is that you'll have to buy $18 cds to get the quality you want.
That's part of higher quality - it often costs more than average mass market-level quality...
Just like my PowerBook G4 12" cost me more than a Dell piece of shit laptop. The difference is that I don't bitch about it costing more - I know that i got a better product than the average consumer.
Pick and choose what you want to spend money on - and buy what fulfills your need. And for the 897,592nd time - iTMS is not for audiophiles with $25,000 stereo systems.
Re:what I want in a music service (Score:3, Informative)
Actually all you need to do is change the order of the songs in the playlist and you can then burn them another 10 times. I believe even adding a 1 second blank track to the end of the playlist would work also.
I think the point is that it is a tiny speed bump to trip
mirror of the invite image (Score:2, Informative)
ITunes Player (Score:2)
Finally, a good media player for Windows (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll be blunt here and say: They all fuckin' suck compared to iTunes. The short period where I had an iBook was a wonderful one, as I also had an iPod. iTunes is nearly flawless, besides the fact that (I think) it only works with iPods and no other portable music players.
The current non-iTunes media players for Windows have horrible support for iPods. Ephpod, a program designed to be used with the iPods, is a buggy one. And it's the only decent one I've found for Windows.
Why don't any others support playlists without requiring you to have a copy of the song for every playlist it is in?
Forgive me if this is wrong, but my experience has been that when I use a non-iTunes media player program that supports portable players, when I go to create a playlist and transfer it over to the player (iPod, at least), the program copies the files in that playlist over even if they already exist on the player (the exact same file). I've only been able to avoid this using Ephpod, but I've had lots of problems with this program.
I hope iTunes: Windows will mirror iTunes: Mac (the store too, but I'm referring to the program mainly).
There are other reasons for my dislike of all those other media player programs... slowness, bugginess, cool features done completely wrong, terrible media library issues.... the list goes on.
Re:Finally, a good media player for Windows (Score:2, Informative)
Save the Best Till Last (Score:3, Informative)
No telling (Score:2, Insightful)
OSX 10.3 (Score:2)
How about some parity here? (Score:2)
Re:How about some parity here? (Score:3, Funny)
Ok... (Score:2)
Of course, the real bummer about that is that it doesn't support the range of codes the Windows version does. I don't run into that very often though, since most sites I view media from are smart enough to support Quicktime... Music video sites seem to be the ones stuck in the dark ages.
Another interesting tidbit - it does not support UFS, and has to be installed on an HFS+ filesystem!
Finally... (Score:4, Funny)
The Big Picture (Score:5, Insightful)
Sell more music
Sell more iPods on which to play iTunes downloaded music. Integration will probably be seamless.
Get general consumers less afraid of Apple the company, and more willing to consider buying Macs
Sell more Macs, with aims to pull 10% market share in a year.
sloth jr
Re:The Big Picture (Score:4, Insightful)
No, no, a thousand times no. Apple is ALREADY selling Macs faster than they can make them. Haven't you heard all the bitching about how it was taking a long time for people to get their new G5's and PowerBooks? That ain't because Apple doesn't want you to have them, man. It's because Apple is literally selling them faster than they can deliver them. And that's true even WITHOUT major universities buying new machines by the thousands.
Apple doesn't give a FLYING SHIT about market share. They care about making products that are so good that a certain number of people are compelled to own them, and doing it in a way that allows them to invest heavily in R&D and still make a tidy profit.
In a down-market, Apple has posted a profit in 20 out of the last 22 quarters WHILE STILL releasing entirely new products (like the G4 iMac, the iPod, the iTunes Music Store, and the G5) and continuing to enhance their existing products on an aggressive timeline. That's FUCKING AMAZING, man. If you know anything at all about business, that's absolutely amazing.
Re:The Big Picture (Score:3, Informative)
Apple is most definitely concerned with market share [macminute.com] - it's the only way they can keep the platform from further being ghetto-ized. I'm not saying Boo about Apple's innovation - they "get it", already. They need to somehow get everyone ELSE to "get it".
Apple
iTunes (Score:4, Insightful)
The real beauty is the iPod integration. Every time I plug in the iPod it does 2 things: It starts charging and it completely syncs to the iTunes database. My iPod is an identical copy in every way, including MP3 metadata, playlists, EQ settings for every song, etc. Buy a song from the iTunes music store, boom its on your iPod too.
The Windows version, if it remains consistent with the Mac version will blow Winamp out of the water. I can't wait. I'll finally have my music DB's synced at work too.
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:5, Insightful)
apple is launching this *now*, the others arent even close to ready.
apple has an existing library and successful delivery mechanism already. a windows client was all that was needed.
i fear you are clueless
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2, Funny)
Compared to iTunes for ease of use or even Windows Media Player it's almost unusable.
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2)
Price the songs reasonably.
I'm sorry, but $.99 is too much per song. Especially now that Universal has dropped CD prices to $12.99. At $.50 per song they'd have my attention.
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at Quicktime for PC. It duplicates a lot of Mac's UI concepts instead of trying to blend in like a windows app. As a result it's confusing - there are no OK buttons on its property sheets for one, so the user has to close the props window to save, something that generally discards the changes in the windows world.
Whatever you wanna say about MS, they did a great job of following Mac conventions in designing MacIE and Office for OS X. I just wish Apple could do as good a job when making windows apps.
Did anyone see the horrible software that they shipped with iPod? I'm not too enthusiastic about the windows incarnation of iTunes.
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2)
How could you have typed it and not intended to?
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, whether this was due to the quality of the service, or the general differences between Apple and PC users remains to be seen.
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:3, Insightful)
Headline: "Should Apple be concerned about the recent launch of MusicMatch Downloads? Will not having first-mover advantage on the Wintel platform hurt Apple?"
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2, Insightful)
On my Mac, I don't have to go to a Web page, order music, download it to my music folder, import it into my music app's playlist, load it on my external mp3 player, rinse and repeat.....
I just click the Music Store button within iTunes, order what I want, and it's automagically in my Library.
It's that integration, in my humble opinion, that will help Apple beat the other competit
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2)
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2)
Re:I fear this is too late (Score:2)
I'm sure this isn't an issue; everybody knows they get paid to do a job.
Do they feel unclean, sullied?
Undoubtedly. Wouldn't you?
Or does Apple farm the development off site, so as not to worry about such things?
No, it's all in-house, as far as I know.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the RIAA that's the problem: they likely would not consent to distribution on the wide scale that Apple is engaged in without some type of restrictions. I'd rather use Apple's DRM (which is much more consumer-friendly) than Microsoft's.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Moreover, iTunes has setting to rip to MP3, AAC, and AIFF by default. You never have to use AAC if you don't want to. (actually I think music ripped to AAC doesn't have password protection)
Re: Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, and more. AAC is just another audio format; you can convert to and from it freely, just as with MP3.
What the iTunes Music Store is selling is protected AAC files; they use the same audio coding, but have a slightly different wrapper format, and have a different file extension (.M4P I think). It's those files which are restricted - you can only play them on your up to 3 authorised machines, &c.
(I don't speak from experience here - as a non-USian, I don't have access, grump grump grump.)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably because you know what you are getting into, and its only $.99 for a track. I wouldn't want to spend $16 on a CD that I can only listen to in certain CD players.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
So far I haven't felt screwed by any means and I'm happy it is an option to get some of my music. Granted it is not for everyone but no one forces anyone to use
Re:Why? (Score:2)
MPEG 4 is an ISO standard. If other player manufacturers don't want to use standard formats and instead use WMA, that's not Apple's fault.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
MPEG 4 is an ISO standard. If other player manufacturers don't want to use standard formats and instead use WMA, that's not Apple's fault.
What a load of B.S. - who told you that?
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
There is no such thing as a standard AAC file. AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) is a codec, not a file format. The AAC files created by iTunes are actually
Other players could definitely play the m4a files if they worked out the file format. Knowing Apple the file format is probably readily available to developers. The m4p files, by nature of the encryption, would require either cracking the encryption or partnering with Apple in order to play on a 3rd party music player.
Here are the notes for the MPEG-2 AAC Standard [vialicensing.com] and the MPEG-4 AAC Standard [vialicensing.com]
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Right.
The AAC files created by iTunes are actually
Right
Basically the m4a and m4p files are Quicktime files that use AAC encoding to store music.
Actually m4a files are just MPEG bitsreams presented as a file - they're not a special format. You can extract the AAC component using a tool such as mp4UI (which is based on the MPEG4IP tools).
The m4a data is unencrypted and the m4p data is encrypted.
Yes. And I don't think there is a published spec for the file format OR the encryption. I'm sure it won't be long before someone finds a workaround to extract the original AAC bitstream by leveraging Apple's own software (peeking at memory).
Other players could definitely play the m4a files if they worked out the file format. Knowing Apple the file format is probably readily available to developers.
Yes... well, actually there's nothing to work out. Just grab MPEG4IP and you can extract them yourself.
The m4p files, by nature of the encryption, would require either cracking the encryption or partnering with Apple in order to play on a 3rd party music player.
I have no doubt that the first will happen if/when ITMS becomes very popular (in spite of the second probably not happening any time soon).
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually any program that uses QuickTime for MPEG reading can read them if you are logged in to the computer. It seems to be automatic. This is how the m4p -> AIFF converters work.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
I know I've cursed not having an apple product around to listen to my music on a stupid redbook audio CD created with iTunes. Those Apple pirates need to learn we won't tolerate that kind of vendor lock-in.
Re:Why? (Score:3)
Apparently you missed the part of the OP's post about "play your music on any non-apple product without first expanding your files to 12x their original size." Having to burn a CD just to listen to a ~5 MB digital file on non-Apple approved hardware is hardly convenient.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
Face it: Having to expand your files to 12x their original size is a result of standard CD players not being able to read compressed audio, not a result of anything that Apple has done. If you download a pirated MP3 file off of Kazaa, you're still going to need to burn it to CD to play it on a standard CD player. Your criticisms apply that it's Apple's fault, where it's not.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nope. CD's and my iPod seem to cover all bases so far.
I also imagine you've never had to deal with losing a hard disk full of all those precious songs and having to redownload and re-license them for your new machine because you can't just copy them over.
If people can't backup data safely and redundantl
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
When I want to do that, I copy the file over to my windows computer, change the name from
click for more info [osxhax.com]
Or I could likewise use a program like Audio Hijack and take the digital sound from my computer and rencode it as m4a
I also imagine you've
Apple encryption: mp4 vs m4a vs m4p (Score:4, Insightful)
Incorrect. You are confusing m4p with mp4. mp4 is the ISO suffix for general mpeg-4 files (audio and/or video). m4p is the (arbitrary) suffix that Apple uses for encrypted mpeg-4 audio files (aka Apple Music). And then there's m4a, which is plain mpeg-4 audio.
QuickTime on Mac can create m4a files when you rip CDs. QuickTime for Windows currently doesn't recognize that suffix, but will accept mp4 instead. NOT THE SAME AS M4PRe:Why? (Score:2)
Because they have a good marketing department.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Being able to burn music CDs from apple's downloads seems pretty reasonable. Certainly that covers most user's needs. What's more, you can share music on your LAN.
What more could a reasonable consumer want?
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no problem with the DRM concept. I think that musicians, writers, and coders should be paid a fair price for their works.
If someone can implement a good model of usability while protecting the content's creator, I'm all for it.
For me, iTunes and my iPod work seamlessly, and offer great advantages in terms of accessibility. The Apple Music Store is always the first place I look when I want music. As their catalog increases, it will become the only place I look.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the damn thing just plain works. (Score:5, Insightful)
At some point you have to look around the absolutes of file format particulars and the 'principles' of DRM.
Why? Because the pros far outway the cons.
I can play the music on three computers.
I can carry it all around on my iPod.
I can burn CDs all day long.
For all practical purposes, it sounds great.
The artists get paid.
I don't get subpoenaed.
Maybe I'm missing something but I'd really like to know the answe to this: what exactly is the untenable downside here?
All I can see "bad" is that (1) I can't play the music on one computer when I'm miles away from the other (but that's what the iPod's for) and (2) I can't hand the files to everyone in the world just because i feel like it.
Re:Because the damn thing just plain works. (Score:3, Insightful)
What's a poor Linux user to do? :(
Why not? (Score:2)
I'll take DRM if I can get the quality and control over what I buy that I want. Buying per song or per album is great, and I've yet to hear a misplaced blip or skip.
Re:Why not? (Score:4, Interesting)
WRONG. You get to listen the music you "purchased" for as long as Apple lets you. Every time you upgrade to a new computer you will have to re-authenticate your purchases with Apple servers. While it is possible to burn to a CD and re-encode, it is lossy and forbidden by the Terms of Service. Also, if Apple ever gets out of the music selling biz you could lose all rights to "your" music. I suggest you read the ITMS Terms of Service [apple.com] a bit more closely:
(Emphasis added by me.)
Re:why I tolerate it (Score:2)
Re:real service? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:real service? (Score:4, Informative)
The RIAA won't let them. They couldn't offer the selection they do if they didn't use DRM. However, read the terms of service - once you download the DRM-restricted file, you can burn it to an unrestricted audio CD. Or several audio CDs. In addition to copying it to one or two other Macs, or streaming it across the LAN, or copying it to an iPod, etc. Compare this to other DRM schemes.
2) Unlimitted downloads
You can download as many as you want, for $0.99/track. Or play 30-second previews for free (I don't even have an account, and I do this all the time, to see whether I like something before placing a hold at the public library). There are no subscription fees.
3) Wide selection (including indie music)
They have something like a quarter of a million tracks, with more being added, and they want to add as much indie music as possible (Apple will only deal with record labels, but cdbaby.com is a record label and will accept just about anybody). Building their selection takes time.
4) At least some top40 music
They've got that.
5) An easy way to find browse for music you're not familiar with (perhaps integrating a user rating system)
They've definitely got that. Look at an album, and get links to other albums that people who've bought this album have also bought. Plenty of stuff on the home page, all chosen by Apple's staff, not placed there by advertising dollars. Navigation is excellent - better, in fact, than browsing your own MP3 collection (I hope they implement the little arrow buttons next to Artist & Album in iTunes 5...).
Today's Top Songs:
Stacy's Mom - Fountains of Wayne
Hey Ya! - OutKast
White Flag - Dido
Fallen - Sarah McLachlan
The First Cut Is the Deepest - Sheryl Crow
Where Is The Love? - Black Eyed Peas & Justin Timberlake
Baby Boy - Beonce & Sean Paul
Hey Ya! (Radio Mix) - OutKast
Fallen - Sarah McLachlan
Bad Day (Amended Album Version) - R.E.M.
Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the two versions of "Fallen"? One is 3:51 and the other is 3:47, and the previews sound the same to me.
Re:Typical (Score:2)
The usual abbreviation is iTMS.
and hopefully I can play all my
Rename them? That's a really bad idea - the extension suggests what format the file is, and changing it leads to confusion. If your media player is capable of playing them, you should simply associate that file extension with your preferred player. If that doesn't work, renaming probably won't either.
Re:Sorry Apple... (Score:2, Insightful)
Cheap people want their music to be free, not cheap. Feel free to make yourself a musical instrument with your own hands and materials you find laying around, and make your own damn music.
Gimmie a Break (Score:2)
Re:Gimmie a Break (Score:2)
Do you pay your taxes, then? Where do you think the money to buy the books, pay the librarians, keep the lights on, etc. comes from? Overdue fines alone?
Re:What about Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
It would in fact be more difficult to port iTunes to Linux than Windows. There are a couple of reasons for this:
Re:What about Linux (Score:5, Informative)
This is a common myth. The command-line user-space environment is FreeBSD-based, but the GUI is proprietary. iTunes is written with the Carbon APIs [apple.com], which do not exist anywhere but Mac OS X, classic Mac OS, and a partial implementation in QuickTime for Windows.
No, the QuickTime movie players for Linux don't count; QuickTime is far more than a movie player.
If it were written with Cocoa [apple.com] instead, it might be possible to port it to GNUstep [gnustep.org] with some work.
By the way, I specifically said user-space; the kernel is also completely different which means hardware drivers are completely different. Don't expect that porting Linux or FreeBSD drivers to Mac OS X should be trivial either.
Re:What about Linux (Score:2)
OS X uses BSD as its base. Many BSD programs will compile out of the box and work, and even many graphical programs will work if you first install X11. However, "standard" applications don't use X11. They use either Carbon or Cocoa. If they want to access a file, they probably use Carbon or Cocoa file-access functions. If they want to have threads, they use Carbon or Cocoa thread functions, or they use Mach thre
What Modded This Idiot Up? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What about Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
Tinfoil Hat Haiku (Score:2, Funny)
Farfetched rant I read
Could signs be any clearer?
Tinfoil hat too tight.
Re:Excellent.. (Score:2)
Imagine open source with DRM, how sacreligous would that be?
Re:Excellent.. (Score:2)
That'll be right after Apple releases a Linux version of QuickTime, I'm sure.
And if that ever happens, then I can't wait 'til they start offering vorbis downloads (or even mp3 would be fine).
The iTunes Music Store will never offer Ogg Vorbis or MP3 downloads. Ever.
However, I would really like to see support for playing Ogg Vorbis files in iTunes. Mostly just so Slashdotters will shut up about it, since the rest of the world doesn't care.
Re:Other countries ? (Score:2)