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Apple Businesses

Playstation emulation on Macs 76

Posted by Hemos from the finally-faster-then-2x dept.
Bob_Dobbs wrote in to tell us that there are major rumors that the next Macs should actually do Playstation Emulation. Requires a G3, but it's not like many people are buying Mac Classics any more. H: Sounds like Jobs will be announcing this officially tomorrow. Very cool. Update: 01/05 12:23 by S : Here's some more info thanks to Narbo: Connectix' press release confirms the story, and lists the games you can play on it.
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Playstation emulation on Macs More

Playstation emulation on Macs

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  • But there really is no job. So they can't do it at all, right or wrong. It's a hobby. And that can be done however one wants.
  • 320x240 is not a TV's 'res'. NTSC is 525 lines (minus a few for extra information). The playstation uses these modes: 256x480, 320x480, 384x480, 512x480, and 640x480.

    The ability to go higher would be kind of cool, but the fact is the bulk of games are designed for 512x480 mode and a few for 640x480 (playstation high resolution mode). Taking these games to higher resolutions would reveal just how low-resolution the textures, bitmaps, objects, etc. really are. They are fit only for TV (or a really, really bad shadow-mask monitor).

    Take for example the PC port of the ever-excellent WipeoutXL. 640x480 looks okay.. Playing at anything over 640x480 is not a pretty sight. Playing Gex2 for PC is the same.. it doesn't even look that good on any monitor.

    The rest of your arguments could quite easily be applied against you.. Why listen to games on crummy PC speakers, and watch on a sharply flaw-revealing monitor, when the Playstation hooks up to a home theater system with 3 RCA plugs?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I'd much rather listen to it on a Dolby surround system, use regular analog dual-shock controllers, and not tie up my computer.
  • Posted by mayhexx:

    Firstly, the number 40% is so rediculously high it cant be true.
    And even if it were true ,would the difference still 40% after having used the other system for a year? Don't think so.
    Secondly, most major graphics software excists for both mac and windows so if you lose 40% of your productivity, you must be really stupid.

  • What about ROMs made from games you own?

    i.e. I have a PC. I have lots of old Nintendo games. I don't have room in my dorm to hook up a classic NES or SNES.

    I download the ROMs to games I have. Nothing illegal there, I believe there are laws saying you can make a backup copy of software you own for personal use - That's what the ROM is, a backup of a cart you already own.
  • I own three Macs and a Playstation. Personally, I don't have much need for a Playstation emulator, unless I had a G3 Powerbook, I suppose (which I don't).

    I'm far more interested in the handheld Playstation that I've seen tidbits about.

    The great thing about the Playstation is that it's never crashed, boots quickly, plays Playstation games flawlessly, and my 4-year-old son can work it with no problems. (He can also use the Mac, but can't do everything on the Mac, like he can on the Playstation.)

    However, if the emulator works, and works well, it could be a boon to Mac sales ("runs all of your office software and it runs Playstation games, too!").
  • This is not for people who just want to play games. This is for people who ALREADY have a G3, and for the borderline people who say "I want a Mac, but it doesn't play any games." That is who this product is designed for. This must quadruple the amount of games available for Mac now.

  • well... (Score:1)

    by alta ( 1263 )
    It's smother on my bashee than my G200
  • worth mentioning that all the PS emus I know of require a CD with the game -- they do not encourage the echange of game ROMs over the 'Net
  • Many of the open source emulators you're talking about are either incomplete or horribly limited.

    If you'd ever watched Windows 95 boot on your PowerMac, you'd have more respect for this company.

    -Hollis
  • Not really. Not like this. Yeah, it's been around for Windows (as a matter of fact, they're working on a Mac port right now), but you've fotgotten two things:
    1) Its compatibility, while admirable for a project of its kind (emulating a recent system within only a year or two of development time) isn't exactly stellar.
    2) It's illegal anyway. This might not be (then again, it depends on how Sony's feeling).
  • Perhaps YOU went temporarily blind... or didn't read Connectix' press release, which states at the bottom that the product is not licensed.

    To those comparing this to open-source projects trying to do the same thing: like most things, it's a tradeoff. Connectix' product isn't going to be free in any sense of the word "free", and it's only going to run on G3 Macs. On the other hand, a commercial company has the ability to throw programmers at a project full-time, something very few open source projects have the luxury of. CVGS is almost certainly going to be substantially better than PSEmu is now. PSEmu may eventually catch up (all open source projects do if people keep plugging at them), but that has no bearing on Mac owners.
  • Wow, I can emulate only if I have an accelerator card. Connectix's Virtual Game Station lets you emulate VERY VERY well without any additional hardware. I think that's much more impressive than needing an accelerator card that costs more than a brand new Playstation.
  • You need to own a Playstation? I didn't see that bit. Hmm...

    Regarding monitors, I just got a 21" Hitachi with like .22 pitch and I am just blown away. The thing cost $1045, which is steep for a monitor but cheep when you consider how long you will have it. It replaced a 15" SVGA monitor I bought 7 years ago. The computer that drives it is almost obsolete, but it runs games and Netscape. I'll sacrifice, because the NEXT upgrade means I'll have a better computer AND a nice display.

    Multimedia monitors are expensive, but I'm willing to bet you get PS comparable imaging using a TV out card, which I think the new ATI's do anyways. The big 56" monitors are just for tradeshows and Microsoft employees..

    Framerates might drop on an iMac revB, but I don't see it happening on the new entry-level 300MHz desktops.

    All emulators, and MP3 players as well, coincide but do not directly cause an increase in piracy. Sales and rentals will go up though, especially if this is as good as the real thing on at least some of the new Yosemite boxes. Oh well..

  • PSX? (Score:1)

    by ilkahn ( 6642 )
    And what is PSX emulation?
  • Last I checked, I couldn't bring a television, PlayStation, and FF7 to the coffeeshop. And the PlayStation costs around $150 after you add the memory card and taxes, while this is $50, or likely less in a bundle. And for those of us without TV, that's a big extra expense for the console.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't want to invite friends over to gather around the 13" LCD screen and play Tekken 2 with two people sharing the keyboard.

    As for CVGS vs. PSEMU, you can't legally use PSEMU without owning a real PlayStation. No comparison, regardless of the other relative merits of the products. So it appears that the Mac *does* have the first full PSX emulation.

    Not that it matters to me, my laptop being a PC... But CVGS for Linux would rock.

  • I have yet to find a game that has as much replay value as MarioKart-64. The fact that the graphics kick ass is just gravy!

  • Web Page (Score:1)

    by TDO ( 9537 )
    Is there a web page stating this, or where did the info come from?
  • Playstation emulation. I think I read something a while ago about Apple installing either a new drive for N64 carts or PSX support in Macs... I guess they chose the latter.
  • The press release is at:

    http://www.connectix.com/cvgs/index.html

    According to the press release the compatibility list should be at:

    http://www.virtualgamestation.com

    though that site doesent seem to be up yet.
    However based on the fact that Connectix rules,
    (one of the few software companies I have real faith in :)) I would wager almost complete support. At the very least significantly more
    games then the 50% or so that psemu supports.
    From the link off the press release you can
    see that both Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy
    Tactics both work which already puts it ahead
    of psemu.

    That and though I have not yet seen the full specs the only required hardware is a G3 mac with 32MB of RAM, which would seem to include the powerbook series, whereas psemu requires as much hardware as you can throw at it including a voodoo board.

    Tekken on the bus anyone? :)

    Chris
  • >Clue Factory: What the hell games are out for the >Mac to begin with? Oregon Trail Gold Edition? Sim >Hooker? Invasion of the Mutant Happy People?

    The fact that you cannot name a single Mac game
    implies you lack the clue you would have others
    seek.

    To answer your question (short list the top few):
    Myth 2, Starcraft, Quake[1-2], Unreal, etc...

    And what is this upgrade you speak of? Its a piece of software little man. Not some plugin board.

    That and the price is $49.99USD, and it will likely be shipped for free with new iMac systems.

    Chris
  • I mean, I'm not sure if this is still true, but is Sony still taking a loss on every PSX sold? I mean if not, at any rate they don't make a profit. It could be somewhat logical to assume that if Sony coded thier OWN emulator, for Mac of PC, they could pull in more of a profit on it then an actual PSX unit. Sony makes is money from games, not the system. In my opinion, they are doing Sony a FAVOR by releasing this. This is a new market to sell games to(their $$ maker) without having to do anything.

    Most that will buy this will buy it so they can use it on a laptop, possible internet play. Probably a load of other options most emulators have, such as real-time saving and loading, and outputing of music to a sound file will be included as well.

    So Sony should just sit back, and be thankful they have a new market. Only thing they are probably steamed about is that they didn't do it first.
  • In general, Open-source software is superior to proprietary. A company must do a *damn good* job to beat OSS, ...

    Without starting a regligious crusade here, could someone tell me where the particular meme above came from, and what the justification for it is?

    Before you start taking pot shots, I use Mac, Windows, Linux and find then all useful. I've used open source and proprietary code and have found good and bad in both groups.

    So I find statements like the one above to be more based on faith then on facts. I think open source is a good idea. I don't think it's the only good idea.

    SteveM
  • I'd like to comlain about this posting. It's writen poorly, has no mention of the source or places to get more info and from what I can read from the other relpies it's also a very old story.

    And yes, I am aware of the fact that slashdot is free, that's no excuse for not doing the job right.
  • Calling them "my system" and "your system" seems to me to be a very childish concept in itself. There is no war going on between users of macs and PCs, please stop treating it as such. Hardware is only the tool, it's the software which should be fought over. One type is evil, the other is pure and good. Turn your upturned nose to the sellers of overpriced and lacking software instead.

    The time has come for the mac lovers, the amiga freaks and PC fanatics to set their different layouts aside, join keyboards and say "no" to propriatary software and set the power of knowledge free.
  • Again, another "Open Source advocate" who doesn't read the darn press release...

    Its hand coded PowerPC 750 Assembly! You probably don't even know anything about Macs, much less PowerPC assembly....what good would Open Source do....by the time your guys could understand it, port it, and optimize it, Moore's law will have made that all irrelevant, for by raw speed alone, you'll be able to play it.

    And then the PlayStaion II will come out....
    : )
  • The difference is this: PSX for windoze practically requires a Voodoo II 3dfx card...CVGS will require an iMac or better....and its more playable and polished, because its 99% PowerPC assembly....but we'll see how it is in the reviews....just my 2 cents
  • From the Appleinsider Website:

    As far as AppleInsider is concerned, the Connectix PlayStation emulator for Macintosh G3 systems is no longer just a rumor. According to extremely reliable sources, the emulator will formally be announced tomorrow morning at Steve Jobs' keynote address and will go by the name Connectix Virtual Game Station. "For $49.95 Macintosh G3 owners can run any Sony PlayStation game right out of the box, with no additional hardware, just the emulator!"


    $50? For an emulator where the actual Sony Playstation is only about $99 USD depending on where you buy it?

    This is a whole new degree of lameness.
  • The reality of it is, the emulator is NOT perfect, according to their own website. It will not play all the games on the market, on top of which you have to own a playstation to begin with, and legally you can't use the playstation AND the emulator at the same time.

    What I see happening is a lot of illegal downloads of the playstation BIOS rom, coupled with illegal downloads of the Emulator itself. Possibly a lawsuit against the company for making the emulator isn't far behind... although since I am not a lawyer I don't fully understand copyright law, and how it would apply.

    PSEmu, unlike this project, was run by a guy in his spare time, more or less just to see if he could do it. No one makes any money off of it and it never once has claimed to be anything other than a pet project by some college student.

    As far as your comments about using VPC emulation I'm very happy you've found something you can use.
    Though if you're using a SCSI CD-Rom you're using hardware technology that's much older than a decade. I guess it never hurts to have old standards huh?

    Oh, and none of the games I've ever played take 5 minutes to load up. Gran Turismo (a game that the emulator claims to run) only takes about 20 seconds on my playstation to load. I would like to find out how long it would actually take to load on this emulator, and how well it plays. Is it really going to be worth the loss in framerate due to the emulation? Or the fact that most monitors aren't nearly the size of a TV? (You can spend $1300 on a 21" monitor or the same on a 56" TV, and yes resolution is better on a montior, but we're talking a GAME console here)
  • Wow, I'm impressed that your PowerMac G3/400 can run a game intended for a 33Mhz system.

    TV's resolution is a bit higher than 320x240, as a point you should remember that the playstation games are designed to be used with a TV and not a computer monitor. The games are fine tuned to look good on a TV, and sometimes they blur images just so they look good on a TV.

    It's like using any emulator on your PC, the games seem to look better if they are on a TV simply because thats what they were designed to work with. Heck, Look at zSnes, a popular Super Nintendo Emulator, it has a mode where it blurs the pixels for you, otherwise the games look too crisp. I doubt the Virtual Game Thingy has a blurred mode since it would take precious CPU time...

    But hey, if emulating playstation games on your Macintosh makes you happy, by all means, go right ahead, nobody's gonna stop you. But it is not, by any measure, a Macintosh "First", and given the games list on that website, niether is it a Macintosh "Best".

    I'd be interested in comparing the performance/price for emulator on PC vs. Macintosh, my current PC costs about $900 to build and with it's 3dfx voodoo2 card emulates the Playstation pretty nicely, though I only loaded one game, just to see if I could. I much prefer playing Gran Turismo on my real playstation using the Dual Shock controller....
  • ummm...

    last time I checked, Intel DOES own all rights to the 80x86 chips, and it is NOT an "open spec". It may be well known, and repeatedly duplicated, but it is not open. Companies have to be very careful of how they go about copying others work to ensure that they do not violate copyrights.

    Specifically, "Black Box" development techniques must be employed.
  • The story so far...

    Flame: "Windows had it first -- go see psemu.com! Nyah nyah..."

    Response: "Ah, but this is being released by a large, well known, and well respected company. It will be faster, more compatible, better supported, and actually legal (once Sony gets its obligatory posturing out of the way)..."

    Flame: "Well if the code is so great, then it should be open sourced! It's the code that matters, not the games!"

    Response: "Uh, guys, this is something target at consumers, not developers. It most certainly is the games that matter, and your average PC-using family is not necessarily willing or able to track down something that was just hacked together by the still relatively unknown geek community."

    Flame: "Well if we wanted to be at the mercy of big companies, we'd all go back to Microborg!"

    Response: "Um, the whole world is not run by Microsoft. Believe it or not, there are still some decent, respectable companies out there, and companies can still do a lot of things that the geek community cannot..."

    Am I missing anything?
  • OK people here is the deal a lot of what has been said here is way off base or just plain wrong.
    due to what ever reason ( I think ignorance has something to with it) several of you have done a great injustice to people who work many hours on these emu's ...

    there are several play station emus out there that

    work relatively well and can play, play

    station CD's very well     thank you. not ROM's

    as some

    people have mentioned (CD images is another

    story)...

    psemupro has come along ways since its humble

    beginnings and is now one of the leading psx

    emu's out there it has its very own software

    GUI for systems without a decent 3d card and

    it also has the optional d3d and glide GUI as

    well as a opengl GUI (although it is slightly

    Lacking)...

    another great psx emu was

    psyke although it needed glide to function

    properly it was the hottest psx emu at its

    time it has now been merged into psemupro.

    Although these emulators are great they do

    require you to have a psx BIOS image of some

    sort.

    This is where all the fun and games ends, if you

    do not have a play station you are not entitled

    to

    a BIOS image. If you do you have a play station you can have a image of that system's BIOS

    made and be a

    legal owner of it. otherwise if you just download

    one off the net somewhere it is still illegal.

    the only emulator that I know of that does not

    require a play station BIOS(besides virtual game station ??) is bleem which has

    undertaking the task of reverse engineering the

    system and developed a working play station

    emulator out of it which works very well and upon

    its release will have full d3d support and

    should play 85 - 90 % percent of

    play station games out there...

    psemupro http://www.psemu.com/index.html

    sope
    http://technopole.le-village.com/rejeb/sope.html

    bleem http://www.bleem.com/

    also there is a linux psx emu in the works called sope so check it out..

    chaos4u

  • Sorry to wound your mac-pride... but... well it's the truth. The page is at www.psemu.com, see for yourself. They've been around for a WHILE...
  • Hey, sure I like to play all those old console games... but I mean seriously, IMHO it's really about the emulation and the implication that code will never die once emulated. NOT THE GAMES. Connectix is trying to sell to all the kiddies out there who have macs and no PSX, however if the source isn't released what good is it??? Connectix could go under any day now for all we know and then where are we??? Now I didn't think PSEMU was open, so I'm not neccesarily speaking on their behalf either, I'm speaking on behalf of the Free Software/OSS Community. IF I WANT PERFECT GAMES I'LL BUY THE FRIGGIN MACHINE --- If I want EMULATION, GIVE ME THE SOURCE!!!
  • ...the playstation has some actual play value under the hood, @ least from what I've seen... flame away if you like, I'm going to sleep. Sleep now there's an interesting subject, the paradise of the weak and the terminally bored... well I'm bored, time to hit the sack...

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