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Apple Software Chief Rejects macOS on iPad (macstories.net) 39

Posted by msmash from the lifelong-debates dept.
Apple software chief Craig Federighi has ruled out bringing macOS to the iPad, amusingly using a kitchen utensil analogy to explain the company's design philosophy. "We don't want to create a boat car or, you know, a spork," Federighi said in an interview. "Someone said, 'If a spoon's great, a fork's great, then let's combine them into a single utensil, right?' It turns out it's not a good spoon and it's not a good fork. It's a bad idea. And so we don't want to build sporks."

The new version of iPadOS, which will ship to consumers later this year, features dynamically resizable windows that users can drag by their corners and a menu bar that is accessible through swipe gestures or cursor movement.

Some observers might consider the iPad Pro itself a "convertible" product that blurs the line between tablet and laptop, he said. However, the Mac and iPad serve distinct purposes, he asserted. "The Mac lets the iPad be iPad," he said adding that Apple's objective "has not been to have iPad completely displace those places where the Mac is the right tool for the job." Rather than full convergence, Federighi said the iPad "can be inspired by elements of the Mac" while remaining a separate platform. "I think the Mac can be inspired by elements of iPad, and I think that that's happened a great deal."

Apple Software Chief Rejects macOS on iPad More | Reply

Apple Software Chief Rejects macOS on iPad

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  • Just make it an option users can toggle, how hard is it. But no they can't have that, they have to decide what the users want.

    • and apple does not get there 30% with that choice!

    • Because they want to sell more devices per user, did you really believe their reasoning?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      you want to have operating system be a user toggle switch???

      im sorry but are you retarded? have you ever worked with an end-user before? do you even understand what you're saying?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Rinnon ( 1474161 )

      Just make it an option users can toggle, how hard is it.

      That assumes that MacOS could just run on an iPad without any additional work. If this were true the community would have already accomplished it via jailbreaking an iPad and installing it. The fact that they haven't (as far as I am aware at least), suggests that it would take at least some effort on Apple's part to get it working; effort they've decided is better spent elsewhere apparently. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who says they wish their iPad would run MacOS.

      • Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who says they wish their iPad would run MacOS.

        I'd like it if my iPad ran macOS.

        When I decided to get an iPad it was in part because I learned that the iPad was now running an OS separate from the iPhone and so was more suited to be an actual tablet computer than a big iPhone. I was quite disappointed when trying something as simple as attaching a USB printer so I could print out something. There was no "add printer" function like with macOS. Instead I had to use AirPrint or install a vendor specific app. Even after installing the app I could not do

        • I have a travel case for my Mac mini M4, keyboard and mouse. When I occasionally work with a collaborator at his home he provides a display.

          If the iPad had a display only mode, as iMac's used to have, and the USB-C connector was upgraded to Thunderbolt then perhaps I could use an iPad for such ad hoc mobility.

          Yes, I could get a MacBook Pro. But to be honest I am rarely on the road with it, and my MPBs generally just travel from one desk to another, each desk with keyboard, mouse and display. It's quit

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        The community would face challenges. Like MacOS does not have touch controls etc. Might not be to hard of you can bring the code over from iOS components and do new builds; while being out of reach for "the community" which is more or less restricted to mixing binaries from different sources and applying the odd patch.

        Apple's bigger problem would be getting any sort of cohesive environment for users that isn't a confusing mess. Do you have to swtich to iOS to run an 'app' or can you do in MacOS in a windo

      • I would love a solid shell and command line utilities for dealing with the frequent bugs in Mail and Safari that are difficult to troubleshoot. I default to blaming my mail host or ads, but that does not get things resolved. There are also a few Mac apps that don't really have solid iPad equivalents that would be ice to have at times.

        • c.f. Google's vision for Chromebook.

          it has the Android runtime for touchscreens but has a WSL-like container for desktops.

          The only thing lacking is a decent web browser! I'd sudo apt install firefox in a heartbeat.

          • You can do exactly that, just install what you described as a "WSL-like container". The containers all run Debian, and you can apt-get firefox and run it. It's been a while since I used the environment, so I can't speak for whether they've made any improvements, but the big issue was it was kinda slow and the UI janky because everything's using default themes rather than whatever GNOME/KDE/etc's open desktop stuff has defined.

            I gave up on ChromeOS myself though, it was a nice concept, but... I mean, you can

            • I did play around on an old laptop with Chrome OS Flex (or Neverware CloudReady as it was called) during Covid lockdowns. But I don't own a Chromebook so never got to test out the Google Play store functionality. For an iPad-like experience you need an app catalogue; where Windows 11 never cut through but Android on ChromeOS would, I assume.

              Why run ChromeOS at all if you're going to use the Crostini stuff?

              Well yeah, all good, I am back to XFCE/Debian on that old laptop. :)

      • I think it could be done rather easily, as they already sell keyboard docks for their iPads that have a keyboard and trackpad. The iPad Pro models use the same M-series chips that their Macs use. MacOS doesn't have touchscreen support of functionality, but I'll bet most users would be okay with that being disabled while using their tablet in Mac mode. Maybe they have to wrangle a few drivers or some other firmware, but a lot of the software and hardware is already common between the platforms.

        I'm assumin

      • I don't know anyone who says they wish their iPad would run MacOS.

        When it's being used as a tablet, probably very few. But using their iPad as a display for a desktop, there might be more interest there. Imagine some Mac mini variant that is a dock for an iPad. Undock, the iPadOS controls the screen. Dock, and it goes into a display only mode, the Mac mini takes over the screen. I suppose you could have something simpler than a mini, something that really is just a dock and let the iPad CPU switch to macOS. However I like the idea of some sort of mini variant so we can ha

    • You sound like an executive. "How hard could it be?"

      Everything is always much, MUCH harder than an executive or layperson thinks it will be.

  • If he was correct, he wouldn't need to say this.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      If he was correct, he wouldn't need to say this.

      Yup. This right here is why I don't own an iPad, even though I own an iPhone, a Mac, and a Vision Pro. My only tablet (other than a first-gen iPad Mini that we all got for free when they first came out) is a cheap Kindle Fire 7-inch that I use for watching Netflix when I'm in the middle of something at night and don't want to stop to take a shower. Oh, and a 21.5-inch Android tablet that I use as an electronic music stand for my electronic organ, but that's a tablet in roughly the same way that an iMac i

    • And you already know he's incorrect when he starts trashing on the spork. As it turns out, sporks do work as both forks and spoons. He just sounds like an idiot.

      The real reason you won't see macOS on an iPad: that would defeat the walled garden and allow you to install whatever the fuck you want, and Apple isn't going to officially allow that if they don't absolutely have to.

  • "We don't want to create a boat car or, you know, a spork,"

    That's what the iDevices are now. They're artificially limited to try to get people to buy both an iDevice and a Macintosh.

    • That's what the iDevices are now. They're artificially limited to try to get people to buy both an iDevice and a Macintosh.

      Isn't that like saying that Apple stopped selling the "toaster" Macs so that Apple could sell both a computer and a display? You should have heard the cries when Apple started to sell the keyboard and mouse separately too. As if other computer manufacturers did things any different.

      The iPad is something like the "personal digital assistants" from ancient times. They'd function relatively well on their own but to get the most from them meant having a computer. With an iPad equipped with a SIM slot it can

      • Isn't that like saying that Apple stopped selling the "toaster" Macs so that Apple could sell both a computer and a display?

        No.

        Longer answer, you could buy lots of third party displays that worked perfectly well with Macintosh computers (and you still can) so that also means Apple can fail to sell you a display by not integrating it.

        The iPad is something like the "personal digital assistants" from ancient times.

        The iPad is absolutely capable of running Mac OS, but it's artificially restricted from doing so, in an effort to make you buy Mac OS. And there are Macintoshes which could easily run iOS, but they don't let you do that.

        This distinction was created artificially and intentionally both to enforce a cer

        • Longer answer, you could buy lots of third party displays that worked perfectly well with Macintosh computers (and you still can) so that also means Apple can fail to sell you a display by not integrating it.

          Isn't that a lot like how people can buy an iPad for "tablet stuff" but if they want a "real computer" then they can get a computer running Windows or Linux? I'm not seeing how buying an iPad locks people into buying a Mac laptop, desktop, or any other Apple product.

          The iPad is absolutely capable of running Mac OS, but it's artificially restricted from doing so, in an effort to make you buy Mac OS. And there are Macintoshes which could easily run iOS, but they don't let you do that.

          If people wanted a portable computer that ran macOS then they'd buy a MacBook. If people want to run iOS apps on their MacBook then they need only go to the App Store and download it. So long as the app behaves well with the "accessibility" a

  • Managing these products with separate OS's and requiring different software for use on both, helps insulate Apple from cannibalization of their own revenue by someone buying an ipad instead of a laptop or vice versa. Part of their pricing strategy with the keyboards & such for ipad is to help ensure price parity between these two platforms, and to disincentize as many as possible from thinking they can get away with just an ipad.

  • "The new version of iPadOS, which will ship to consumers later this year, features dynamically resizable windows that users can drag by their corners and a menu bar that is accessible through swipe gestures or cursor movement."

    So it's a spork. Isn't this exactly what he is arguing against but for the name?

    Remember when the distinguishing UI feature of tablets/phones was ONE APP at a time? Remember when Macs were one app at a time, for that matter? Being on different development timelines does not mean th

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      So it's a spork. Isn't this exactly what he is arguing against but for the name?

      That sweeeeet 30% cut from the AppStore (sure, sure, alternative payment systems are allowed for now, but this can change).

  • The iPhone is great. The Mac is great. The thing in the middle, which is very much a blending of the two, isn't quite as great.
  • Microsoft tried it in the 00's and they were terrible because tapping with fingers and clicking with a mouse are entirely different paradigms.

    • A former manager of mine left the Mac team for the Windows team and, of course, had to get all new hardware. He picked up one of those tablet PCs and loved it.

      He could plug in a big display, keyboard, mouse, etc and use it like PC. But when he had to go to a meeting, he could unplug it and take notes with a pen--which he said was easier and less distracting to the presenter. When the meeting was done, he would come back to the office and have it turn his written notes into text.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rta ( 559125 )

        nowadays it's 1 cable for power and all that via thunderbolt / usb-c

        2-in-1s are ok, but when you're in note taking our drawing mode you "lose" the normal multitasking laptop stuff even when it's still going on in the background. eg if you need to look something up, answer a slack message etc.

        So some 2 device thing tends to work better imo. though Ii admir my hands on experience is limited.

      • Well, not without some justification, the trope that Microsoft sabotaged their 20th century desktop paradigm of Windows 7 and have spent a decade and a half with 8, 10 and 11 dragging Windows into the iPad era only for Apple themselves to resist!

        c.f. Qt manages it at the toolkit level thanks to the work Nokia did all those years ago with Symbian and Meego. I'd try out the KDE spin for Fedora but I don't have an x86 tablet handy.

        https://fedoraproject.org/spin... [fedoraproject.org]

  • The iPad pro would be ideal for running something closer to macOS on. A lot of businesses would jump at that opportunity. Currently Apple hobbles the iPad Pro so much you have to wonder why they bothered to make one. Businesses would love to use the devices and be able to develop their own in-house software (and hardware) for their employees and internal purposes, without having to go through the nonsense to allow developers to side load their apps on a limited number of devices. The way you can with, yo

  • The spork analogy is completely off. Utensils are made of metal and can’t be adapted in the field. Computing devices are driven by software. Today I want it to be a tablet, tomorrow it’s a computer. Simple reboot. Or better yet, coexist seamlessly. The real reason is, why sell customers a tablet or a computer when we can sell them both. That’s the reason behind their laptops having no touch screen input or detachable screens, and why the Files app is such a disaster on an iPhone or iPad.
  • All I ask is to be able to use the hardware I own to run an OS that is not locked in any way. Linux would be nice, if Apple isn't going to support it anymore anyway.

  • Honestly, the only iThing I own is a phone, so I may be off here. But... From what I'm seeing in the comments, the iPad (Pro) seems like decent hardware (maybe missing some useful ports), hobbled by mediocre software.

    The problem is that if they tried to merge MacOS and iPadOS, you'd wind up with... the Apple equivalent of Windows 8. There's no way in hell that Tim would allow that.

  • "We want you to buy a Mac and iPad. If you only buy one, you are using it wrong."

    I own both, but I'd own both even if the iPad had a full OS. I need the more robust computing power in the Mac. And it is hard to beat the iPad for reading and surfing the internet away from a desk or table. However, it would certainly be nice to have the iPad be a full computer too. There is no reason it shouldn't be except to try to get the casual computer user to buy both instead of just the iPad.

  • I would totally buy an iPad if it ran the full Xcode.
    I would totally buy a MacBook if I could draw on it.
    I like my iPhone 16 Pro. I don't buy their other devices because I hate Apple; it's their lack of courage to do what users want.

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