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New Bill Would Force Apple, Google To Open App Store Ecosystems 133

Posted by msmash from the encouraging-feedback dept.
Rep. Kat Cammack (R-FL) introduced the App Store Freedom Act [PDF] on Tuesday, legislation that would compel "large app store operators" with over 100 million US users to permit third-party app stores and allow them to be set as defaults. The bill directly challenges Apple's walled garden approach and Google's Play Store dominance by requiring both companies to allow developers to use alternative payment systems, bypassing the platforms' commission structures.

It would also mandate equal access to development tools and interfaces without discrimination, while giving users the ability to remove pre-installed apps. Violations would trigger FTC enforcement with penalties up to $1 million per infraction. The legislation mirrors recent European Union regulations that have already forced Apple to permit third-party app stores and allow users to change default apps.

New Bill Would Force Apple, Google To Open App Store Ecosystems More | Reply

New Bill Would Force Apple, Google To Open App Store Ecosystems

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  • I am all for opening up freedom of payment options. I think it would hurt Apple (and Google) but I am pretty sure they would survive because of the ease of paying via their systems. So that recent ruling along those lines was I think a good thing overall.

    But a mandate for support of third party app stores on all platforms is insane. The more wide spread this becomes, the greater the opportunity for malware creators to target the vast numbers of people who can't manage computer security themselves - think

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dusanyu ( 675778 )
      I would assume one would have to install A third party App store ones self. and that it is a safe bet that most of the end users who are not tat savvy will stick to the default ones.

      • Give it time. The dickheads in congress will eventually decree that third party app stores be pre-installed on the devices shipped by Apple.

        Probably along with 3rd party browsers, third party payment apps, third party shitware of any kind, provided their lobbyists make suitable donations to Congress critters.

        • You say that like its a bad thing... nearly sounds like an open system... like email.

          What? Don't be un Murican.. Freezepeach!!
    • And to be honest there's plenty of malware on the official Google store and I don't just mean apps that do dodgy things that are technically allowed or legal I mean just out and out malware. Google does not do a great job of policing the store, it's better than it was but it's still pretty much the wild West.

      The main problem with Google is to sideload an app you have to change a setting with a scary name and that's going to scare off a lot of people, which of course is by design.

      Apple is a whole ano

      • No, it's not easy to side load apps, unless you're a nerd. Regular people have no idea how to do it. And if they do figure it out, they have to wade through multiple scary security warning popups, that are really no different than what you experience if you try to cancel your streaming service subscription. "Are you REALLY sure you want to do this? But wait! This could be harmful!" Yeah right, it could cost Google revenue, that's the real reason for the scary messages.

        • Download, open when prompted.

          If it's the first time, you get a "scary warning" telling you exactly how to enable installation of third party applications with a helpful link to the relevant part of "Settings".

          Try again (assuming you don't have a Downloads app or want to wade through the file manager)

          Are you sure you want to install? You say yes.

          Done.

          It's hard only if you find being asked questions hard, in which case how the fuck did you set up the phone in the first place, log into Facebook, or add people

          • You have a funny idea of "simple." Your sequence involves at least half a dozen taps, and a couple of decisions that must be made, "Should I allow this? How do I decide?" For you, a technical person, it's "easy." For a typical facebook user, not so much.

            • What a load of horseshit.

              The typical facebook user went through far more than that just to log into facebook.

              • You don't know many older people, do you! We're talking about the kind of people who have trouble with a TV remote. There are a lot of people like that out there. They're not dumb, just not acclimated to technology.

                • In which case they are in no danger of changing the default settings, which default to the app store the device vendor makes the default. Everything operates as it does today. Wow, how terrible!

                  • Precisely! So if, as this law proposes, Apple and Google are forced to allow alternate app stores, then these old people won't be negatively affected. They can continue to use their "safe" Apple and Google App Stores. Other, more tech-savvy people, can choose to vote with their feet.

        • No, it's not easy to side load apps, unless you're a nerd. Regular people have no idea how to do it.

          Yes, it's super hard to deal with the box that comes up saying 3rd party sources are disallowed by current settings, and the helpful button that takes you exactly to the switch to change it.

          It's literally two taps, and swipe back.

      • Re:It's already pretty easy to side load apps (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2025 @01:01AM (#65358111)

        Apple is a whole another kettle of fish. Not quite as terrible as Google but not great.

        They're much worse than Google. The lengths Apple has gone to fuck over customers and developers, and then worse, try to cover it up and lie about it, is absurd. It's no wonder that, even though Google's ecosystem is far more open, they got hit the hardest: Apple's been hiding shit AND lying about it in court, probably to lawmakers as well.

        • Good thing no one is forced to buy Apple. We have choices. For now.

        • Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, and other major tech companies were found to have made an agreement about employing software engineers that depressed wages across the board for all software engineers. This was found to be true in a court of law.

          Apple is clearly in the evil category. Arguing about levels of evil is a waste of time. Evil is not to be tolerated at all.

    • Re:A new Golden Age of Malware (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2025 @12:06AM (#65358065) Homepage

      You mean, kind of like how you can install software on Windows and Linux from any old random website? Where's the rage about that?

      Do you really buy Google's and Apple's marketing that says they lock down the app stores to protect users? Really? No, they lock them down for one reason only: greed.

      I think this law seems like a *good* idea.

      • You mean, kind of like how you can install software on Windows and Linux from any old random website? Where's the rage about that?

        While I agree about the openness there's a few differences worth noting. Windows is not a 2FA authenticator for critical websites. Windows does not transfer money out of my bank account when asked to and has no apps that approve credit card purchases. Windows is not always on and always carried on me and doesn't have a high accuracy location profile of me.

        No, they lock them down for one reason only: greed.

        There's more than one reason. Greed definitely, but you can see them objectively spend real amounts of money on anti-malware in their ecosystems. One argu

        • They are both computing devices. I certainly used Windows to transfer money. Phones are just computing devices that have a fingerprint reader, an nfc device, a camera.. etc. built in, all of which you can install on your PC as separate devices and use then like you use then on your phone. Also, you're assuming Google and Apple are good gatekeepers and won't abuse their power to exclude apps they don't like, or apps they can't extract money from

        • Windows is not a 2FA authenticator for critical websites.

          Neither is iOS or Android. The 2FA is provided by apps, not the OS. Making the argument from the other end, I get MFA codes in email which I receive on my desktop all the time.

          Windows does not transfer money out of my bank account when asked to

          Neither does iOS or Android. Apps on them do that. But again, from the other end, I can make bank transfers through a website I access from my desktop.

          Windows is not always on and always carried on me and doesn't have a high accuracy location profile of me.

          So don't give every app the rights to location services. Both iOS and Android let you control that.

          you can see them objectively spend real amounts of money on anti-malware in their ecosystems. One argument doesn't invalidate the other.

          Both the Play Store and the App Store have distributed malware time and again. They ar

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by flink ( 18449 )

            Windows is not a 2FA authenticator for critical websites.

            Neither is iOS or Android. The 2FA is provided by apps, not the OS. Making the argument from the other end, I get MFA codes in email which I receive on my desktop all the time.

            Your Apple ID or Google account absolutely are used as 2nd factors by many sites and services. This often takes the form of a push notification that operates through the phone's built in system account (either Apple ID or Google Account). These notifications cannot be received on a Windows machine. I believe for Apple a Mac will do, but I don't think any old Android device works for Google, it must be a phone.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AuMatar ( 183847 )

              No, your AppleID and GoogleID only serve this purpose if you're stupid enough to allow it to. And they can (and do) do the same thing on desktops. And yes, my windows machine can and does receive all the notifications my Android phone does. You're just making shit up.

              The only difference between a phone and a computer is the phone has a cellular radio in it. And that's not even 100%- an Android tablet may not have a cellular radio, and I've had laptops that did.

      • Apple and Google are providing the "infrastructure" that allows mobile commerce to exist. Surely, you're not against having to pay to support infrastructure.

        • Providing the "infrastructure" is dirt cheap. As an example, Shopify, which provides "infrastructure" to host marketplaces and handles payments, charges about 3%.

          So I'm fine with Apple charging for "infrastructure." But that's a whole different thing than charging 15-30% on every transaction. That's what is called *price gouging.*

    • I agreed with this sentiment until Apple/Google/etc. started complying with government laws and removing apps from the stores. I appreciate that these companies must follow laws or they will be shut down.

      If an app-store ends up being nothing other than a front end to side-load apps that big brother doesn't want me to have, then I'll take my chances with it.

    • Re:A new Golden Age of Malware (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2025 @12:59AM (#65358109)

      But a mandate for support of third party app stores on all platforms is insane.

      This is, and always was, a bullshit argument. This was never about safety, security, privacy, etc. At least, in the case of Apple, we know that every time they were in court they talked up a storm about all of that, but in their own internal discussions, this never factored into their decisions. As the judge noted, whenever Apple had different options available, at every last turn, the one they always picked was the one that would give them the most control and cause the maximum damage to fuck over users and developers.

      And you know what's even more damning? That wasn't the only judge who made this finding. Another judge who was appointed to oversee Apple's disclosure process noted how the time requirements kept expanding as apple mysteriously kept finding new documents. It reached a point where it became obvious that the entire reason they were doing this was to just delay the whole thing, which is illegal. The judge called them on it and refused to extend their deadline. And then guess what? Apple started tagging all of these disclosure documents that in any way shape or form involved a legal team, as attorney client privilege even when they wouldn't even begin to qualify. The judge called out a case where their legal team was suggesting changes to Apple's scare screen, citing that as another example of apple being outright dishonest.

      Not only is that halo you're trying to put over Tim Cook's head nothing but a gold painted turd, Apple was making an active effort to cover up the fact that they were trying to do the most they could to fuck over customers and developers.

      The last week has shown how Apple is a company with zero integrity. And here's your pathetic ass trying to pretend that these are all white lies and the company is just soooo god damn benevolent.

    • Yet I should be able to buy an iPhone and put my own software on it. It's a piece of hardware, just sell me the hardware please, with a three-year warranty on the hardware only.

      Mandatory tying of transactions on hardware and software is hard to defend morally. You can try though, maybe there is some strong argument that I haven't thought of. Security isn't one such argument: it's not about opposing the sale of both the software and the hardware, but about making it mandatory (or unfair in terms of cost) to

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Njovich ( 553857 )

      Yeah I'm sure seniors will be rushing to install Epic gamestore or another appstore... they are getting scammed just fine through safari browser or the appstore.

    • more open rules like allow any web browser engine
      allow emulators that can load roms from file system.
      allow full dosbox
      allow remote game play apps that does not need each game to be oked one by one.

    • > But a mandate for support of third party app stores on all platforms is insane. The more wide spread this becomes, the greater the opportunity for malware creators to target the vast numbers of people who can't manage computer security themselves

      I'm struggling to understand the leap here.

      In order for this to happen, people would have to actively install the poorly maintained store and actively install the malware from that store. That's quite a few jumps for people who do not understand enough about co

    • But a mandate for support of third party app stores on all platforms is insane. The more wide spread this becomes, the greater the opportunity for malware creators to target the vast numbers of people who can't manage computer security themselves

      Current app stores are overflowing with redundant low quality crap most of which exists to exfiltrate data thanks to the everything must be free race to the bottom incentive structure instilled by app stores.

      With competition it is possible to create app stores that are for example known for their reputation of meeting vigorous quality and security standards or catering to specific types of software. For example an app store for businesses with only business software vetted to a required standard.

      The curren

    • So you think the marketplace that already works on PC / Linux / Mac is somehow going to be a problem on iOS and Android, because people are going to somehow enable fly-by-night shady shitshow app stores to install malware en masse?

      As you said, this already exists on Android other than defaulting to something besides Google Play, and that hasn't happened. So what else you got besides nanny state protections against conditions that never existed?

  • So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

      Amazon and Roku would both be forced to open up their platforms. Same with Nintendo, in all likelihood. But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

      This number seems arbitrary. A more reasonable number is 1. If you build a device platform that sells apps created by third parties and someone else wants to create a third-party app store for it, you should be required to make that possible. Period. No exceptions.

      • But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

        - Samsung: you're probably referring to the fact that 3rd party stores on Android-based devices are a mere sideload away?
        - Xbox: You're alluding to the developer program, where it's easy to just switch a console into dev mode and upload the stuff you wanted?

        - Sony Playstation: That I don't see what you're alluding to. Did Sony re-introduce OtherOS onto the PS5 or something?

      • So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

        Amazon and Roku would both be forced to open up their platforms. Same with Nintendo, in all likelihood. But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

        This number seems arbitrary. A more reasonable number is 1. If you build a device platform that sells apps created by third parties and someone else wants to create a third-party app store for it, you should be required to make that possible. Period. No exceptions.

        What then, is a "Platform"?

        Be careful what you wish for. . .

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

          Amazon and Roku would both be forced to open up their platforms. Same with Nintendo, in all likelihood. But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

          This number seems arbitrary. A more reasonable number is 1. If you build a device platform that sells apps created by third parties and someone else wants to create a third-party app store for it, you should be required to make that possible. Period. No exceptions.

          What then, is a "Platform"?

          Be careful what you wish for. . .

          A platform is any operating system or hardware device. If you build a platform or hardware device and you allow third parties to sell software for it through your store, you must also allow other stores to operate on the platform. No exceptions. Your choices should either be A. a first-party-only platform where you write all the software or B. an open platform where anyone can write software without restrictions.

          • So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

            Amazon and Roku would both be forced to open up their platforms. Same with Nintendo, in all likelihood. But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

            This number seems arbitrary. A more reasonable number is 1. If you build a device platform that sells apps created by third parties and someone else wants to create a third-party app store for it, you should be required to make that possible. Period. No exceptions.

            What then, is a "Platform"?

            Be careful what you wish for. . .

            A platform is any operating system or hardware device. If you build a platform or hardware device and you allow third parties to sell software for it through your store, you must also allow other stores to operate on the platform. No exceptions. Your choices should either be A. a first-party-only platform where you write all the software or B. an open platform where anyone can write software without restrictions.

            And here I thought you were actually an intelligent primate. . .

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              So just maybe the Amazon App store won't be ending after all

              Amazon and Roku would both be forced to open up their platforms. Same with Nintendo, in all likelihood. But Xbox, Playstation, and Samsung likely dodge the bullet (though the last of the three already makes third-party app stores possible).

              This number seems arbitrary. A more reasonable number is 1. If you build a device platform that sells apps created by third parties and someone else wants to create a third-party app store for it, you should be required to make that possible. Period. No exceptions.

              What then, is a "Platform"?

              Be careful what you wish for. . .

              A platform is any operating system or hardware device. If you build a platform or hardware device and you allow third parties to sell software for it through your store, you must also allow other stores to operate on the platform. No exceptions. Your choices should either be A. a first-party-only platform where you write all the software or B. an open platform where anyone can write software without restrictions.

              And here I thought you were actually an intelligent primate. . .

              *shrugs*

              We just have different goals. In my view, the owner of a device should have absolute authority over what software runs on that device. I view corporations locking down devices that people pay for to be inherently abusive to the free market and to consumers in general. You apparently do not.

              To be clear, I'm not talking about every platform that exists — only platforms where the manufacturer of the device has an app store that sells third-party apps. So your car, which operates only using so

  • It's going to be great when you elderly parent clicks on some offer that replaces all the native apps on their phone with some AI enhanced data scraper that violates their privacy and breaks their routine.

    Can't wait for that.

    • It's going to be great when you elderly parent clicks on some offer that replaces all the native apps on their phone with some AI enhanced data scraper

      If they have the mental capacity of a child, and you are their guardian or conservator, then you owe it to them to set up a managed account on their phone.

      If they are competent, they should be able to avoid that. If not, then you should care for them before you claim you care about them.

  • Installing non-IOS OS on Apple hardware?

  • I'll bet my iPhone18ProMaxUltra just isn't compatible enough.

  • How are phones different to game consoles, smart TVs, set-top boxes and other hardware that have stores where you can download things and where everything you can download and run is controlled by the manufacturer?

    • How are phones different to game consoles, smart TVs, set-top boxes and other hardware that have stores where you can download things and where everything you can download and run is controlled by the manufacturer?

      What, is it remedial student day already? Why don't you try reading the text of the bill, so you can find out that the word "phone" doesn't appear in it?

      SEC. 6. DEFINITIONS.10
      In this Act:11
      (1) APP .â"The term ââappâ(TM)â(TM) means a software12
      application or electronic service that may be run or13
      directed by a user on a computer, a mobile device,14
      or any other general purpose consumer computing15
      device.16
      (2) APP STORE .â"The term ââapp storeâ(TM)â(TM) means17

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        Anyway, this bill would apply to basically anything as written. Phones, game consoles, smart TVs, automotive infotainment systems... expect at minimum that last one to get a carve-out before this thing dies anyway.

        No game console will reach 100M installed base in the US, which is required for the law to kick in. The most wildly successful console ever, the PS2, sold only ~160M units, world-wide, and that's when Sony's market dominance was much more secure. Also, the PS2 was manufactured and sold for an unprecedented 13 years, from 2000-'13. That's unlikely to be repeated with modern console cycles being more like 5-7 years, although the switch is a modern outlier since it's likely to go for 9+.

        If this does ever be

        • No game console will reach 100M installed base in the US, which is required for the law to kick in.

          I don't know that's true. It is while tariffs are pushing up the prices, but gaming only continues to gain acceptance and the population is only growing. It's also not for devices with that many users, that's the number of users of an app store. If the manufacturer has multiple current consoles going to the same store, it will apply.

          Same goes for pretty much anything else with an app store. Very few things are as ubiquitous as phones that also have an online marketplace that sells 3rd party software. Most manufacturers would love to have the problem of 100M+ US customers.

          Sure. Right now it's only going to apply to Apple and Google's app stores. I think that number is way too high, but it could be adjusted later. I think that would have almost as

    • Consoles, smart TVs, and set-top boxes and other hardware that has stores should also be open, allowing you to run your own software.

      Seriously, you're on Slashdot. You should know this obvious solution.

  • Aren't software developers going to start asking why this won't be the case on other closed systems?

    At the same time now people might have to worry about malware, different payment methods and satisfaction policies, stores that just shut down and disappear with no support left for software people paid for, removing the convenience and changing expectations of the experience people will have with these devices.

    It seems like a can of worms and I wonder what will happen.

  • but a mandate to set that as default seems silly. Plus, android users already have multi-apps stores installed (or my samsung does anyway). So this really comes down to Apple.

    There is definitely two sides to this. Apple's walled garden may actual help keep users safer from malware (may!). Also, if users buy an iphone, they know what they are buying. That's their choice. It's there money to spend. If they want multi-app stores, use android.

    Oh well, this doesn't directly affect me either way and I suppose 99%

  • Would this apply to game consoles such as those by Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony too. Or just mobile OSs?

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