Apple Aims To Source All US iPhones From India in Pivot Away From China (ft.com) 78
Apple plans to shift the assembly of all US-sold iPhones to India [alternative source] as soon as next year, according to Financial Times, which cites people familiar with the matter, as President Donald Trump's trade war forces the tech giant to pivot away from China. From the report: The push builds on Apple's strategy to diversify its supply chain but goes further and faster than investors appreciate, with a goal to source from India the entirety of the more than 60 million iPhones sold annually in the US by the end of 2026.
what about the USA and that foxcon plant in WI? (Score:2)
what about the USA and that foxcon plant in WI?
Re:what about the USA and that foxcon plant in WI? (Score:5, Funny)
The one that was announced around the time the last trade war happened in 2017?
For the deal maker that's a deal done and closed. He won, iphones back then were made in "America".
But, you know, Dark Brandon destroyed that win, so now the deal maker had to start again.
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And the jobs are still not coming back to the US. The phones will be assembled in India, from parts sourced from China and Taiwan.
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Yes, per TFS. Sounds like a BEAUTIFUL WIN to me.
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That's why Agolf Twitler wants to take over Greenland & Canada
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Nah, that's not why.
Shitler wants Greenland and Canada for the same reason putler wants to restore the Soviet Union and the Warsaw pact - so that they can build a wall around the landgrab and hide inside from the inevitable change, from getting old and from dying.
It is a mental disease called "conservatism".
Whole nations have it, too.
Re: what about the USA and that foxcon plant in WI (Score:2)
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Foxconn wasted a ton of money, they were on the hook for all the infrastructure cost. Though presumably they recovered some of that in the sale to Microsoft.
Re: what about the USA and that foxcon plant in W (Score:2)
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Unfortunately they don’t seem to be winning after that political investment.
What they don’t understand is Trump will never stay bought. They can shower him with all kinds of money and admiration, but then when they want something in return, he wants to make a deal right then, no matter what came before. And he wants not just for everyone to be satisfied, or dissatisfied, he wants to trounce the other side, make a one-sided deal that only benefits him - he can only do that from a position of powe
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Doesn't Foxcon make more than just iPhones?
On the off-chance you're actually interested in the Wisconsin Foxcon factory that was planned to manufacture large display panels and screens... [npr.org]
From the link:
according to state figures released last December [2024], Foxconn employed about 1,100 full-time workers here last year and invested about $25 million in its local operations. In return, it got $9 million in state tax credits. The now Democratic governor, Tony Evers, says he's glad to have Foxconn in Wisconsin. But other Democrats here still ridicule the Republicans' original jobs promises. One thing to note - Donald Trump has won Racine County, where the Foxconn plant is located, by a few percentage points all three times he's been on the ballot here.
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"Donald Trump has won Racine County, where the Foxconn plant is located, by a few percentage points all three times he's been on the ballot here"
buying votes works
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Sounds like a lot of details that should have been taken care of up front by The Master Negotiator(TM) himself. Art of the deal baby!
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what about the USA and that foxcon plant in WI?
It's not in India, so what does that have to do with this story?
Good jobs (Score:2)
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They are not. No investors or ledners will be able to justify financing the capital necessary to construct extra manufacturing infrastructure or jobs in America. The environment is far too unstable, and the risk is too extreme. The only way this will happen right now is if the US government itself starts paying out hundreds of trillions of dollars to finance business development in the US.
India trade deficit (Score:2)
India has more protectionism (and a corresponding shittier economy) than China. In terms of trade deficit, as an imports vs. exports percent difference, it isn't massively better than China. In other words, it could be the target of US protectionism the same as China.
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India has more protectionism (and a corresponding shittier economy) than China. In terms of trade deficit, as an imports vs. exports percent difference, it isn't massively better than China. In other words, it could be the target of US protectionism the same as China.
Ironically, India was the most deserving country of Trump's "reciprocal" tariffs, with average tariffs of 12%, far higher than any other country. India is still a highly agrarian country, with around 50% of all Indian workers employed in agriculture, and of all US exports, farm products are arguably the most competitive.
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Which is the real reason Foxconn is shifting iPhone work to India. India's GDP per capita is half of China's. With a similar population that's a lot of people who would rather sit on an assembly line for cheap than work in field.
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the skills & expertise required to build modern cutting edge smartphones takes a lot of time.
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The chip manufacturing isn't moving from Taiwain. The screws-in-case assembly is getting shifted from one place Foxconn does it (China) to another place they *already do it*, India. No, it does not take a particularly long time to teach someone to perform an assembly line station task of a smartphone, cutting edge or no.
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then why wasn't it done sooner?
China hasn't been a low wage country for a long time
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Foxconn started operations in India in 2006. Apple is probably Foxconn's least price sensitive customer, but they started making iPhones in India (starting with the cheapest one) eight years ago.
Sucks for Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not clear that Apple members have a strong upper limit on what they will spend.
Skipping a model isn't an option for a great many of them and the flagship prices have trippled since introduction.
The "free phone with plan" telcos might be priced out, though.
Apple sharing its revenue with USG under DJT might well be a hard stop, though.
I can't even keep track of whether Apple is an Irish corporation or a Chinese corporation these days but directly paying a tax in these United States seems like something t
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It's not clear that Apple members have a strong upper limit on what they will spend.
I dunno about anyone else, but Apple could double its prices and I'd still buy from Apple.
Call it anything you want, but if other vendors produced what I wanted, I'd buy from them instead.
Of course, the EU is doing everything it can to fuck up Apple's products and ensure that Apple doesn't produce what I want either.
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I don't parade anything.
Buy whatever you want as far as I'm concerned.
Re:Sucks for Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple is stuck right now. They can't continue to manufacture in China, or they just won't be able to sell any iPhones in the US with the tariffs. But moving production to India is a big risk, because you can't predict if there'll be higher tariffs on India soon. And it's just not feasible to make them in the US, though I'm sure they worked the numbers on it. Then there's always the risk that after moving production to India, that China makes a deal and it becomes better to manufacture in China again.
And to top things off, China is trying to make Apple's move as difficult as possible. Moving equipment (or buying new equipment) isn't hard, but the expertise to set up and run that equipment is most Chinese. This is also part of the problem of bringing that manufacturing to the US. China has been blocking the movement of essential transition workers to India, so that has been slowing down Apple/Foxconn's move to India.
Eventually, Trump's tariffs gambit will hurt China far more than it helps the US. Manufacturing will migrate away from China in search of a more stable location, but due to cost and supply chain considerations, foreign manufacturing will largely stay foreign.
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Manufacturing will migrate away from China in search of a more stable location
China is stable; America is not, and will not be as long as there's a possibility that Republicans will be in power.
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Manufacturing will migrate away from China in search of a more stable location
China is stable; America is not, and will not be as long as there's a possibility that Republicans will be in power.
Businesses want the rule of stable law that is not bendable to the whims of dictators. That's the problem with China. Xi might allow you to prosper today, but who knows about tomorrow. Long-time friends and proteges have been purged suddenly with no public explanation. Punishments have happened to billionaires and companies in China. Dictatorships are never stable, and we're learning that the hard way in the US.
Re: Sucks for Apple (Score:3)
Fascist tend to be factional and violent, it leads to a very unstable form of government. Especially as industry is centralized under loyal but incompetent subordinates.
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In the meantime we're stuck paying +145% for things that are made in China. Well, actually we'll be paying 0, because it's becoming clear that businesses aren't interested in importing products at +145%, so we'll just have rows of empty shelves in stores. Starting in about 3 weeks from now.
You'll get so sick of all the winning!
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The India/China split is probably relatively neutral for Apple. As long as the costs are similar and they can get the volume they need, they will just divvy up the production as needed to the countries that optimize for lowest cost (including things like tariffs). So if tariffs go up on India and down on China, they'll adjust. Or they'll just raise prices in the US and then watch the grey market explode as people just buy overseas and bring back their iPhone. All their competitors will be facing the same co
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The India/China split is probably relatively neutral for Apple.
India's got cheap labor but it doesnt have the infrastructure that China does https://magazine.wharton.upenn... [upenn.edu]. . Long term operating costs will be higher in India because of this.
Lots of places in the world have cheap labor, what's made China so special is its infrastructure.
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I won't dispute that China is likely Apple's preferred place to have its factories. But it was forced to diversify and this is likely to be a net benefit for them due to the geopolitical realities. If the cost of production in India is 20% higher, it still is likely to be better than paying tariffs - plus it gives them options. Apple is good at optimizing expenses and likely will eventually make the production in India more efficient, reducing the cost difference.
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If the cost of production in India is 20% higher, it still is likely to be better than paying tariffs
Right now, yes but Trump has been so off and on with everything who the hell knows if that will last. Unlike a lot of countries he initially targeted and then repealed tariffs on India does in fact place a decent amount of tariffs on goods coming from the US so going by the things he says they're a logical target for him but really who knows? He changes his mind so much and says so much random shit companies are reduced to reading tea leaves to get any idea on what their fiscal future might hold. Hence our
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Apple is stuck right now. They can't continue to manufacture in China, or they just won't be able to sell any iPhones in the US with the tariffs. But moving production to India is a big risk, because you can't predict if there'll be higher tariffs on India soon. And it's just not feasible to make them in the US, though I'm sure they worked the numbers on it. Then there's always the risk that after moving production to India, that China makes a deal and it becomes better to manufacture in China again.
What you say it true, but whatever impacts Apple here is going to impact other companies that leverage Foxconn and Chinese manufacturing. That include Logitech, Lenovo and Sony. The US consumerism, its want of cheap products and not investing in home grown manufacturing are what has pushed manufacturing elsewhere. Also, as far as I can tell no sitting government has done anything effective to address this. What Trump is doing is more distraction than anything close to effective.
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20% of US iPhones come from India today, 80% from China [indianexpress.com] - Apple is simply shifting production volumes between sites, and will ship more Indian iPhones from India to the US, and China will ship more iPhones outside the US.
Mac mini M4s are from Vietnam ... (Score:2)
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Apple is stuck right now. They can't continue to manufacture in China, or they just won't be able to sell any iPhones in the US with the tariffs. But moving production to India is a big risk, because you can't predict if there'll be higher tariffs on India soon. And it's just not feasible to make them in the US, though I'm sure they worked the numbers on it. Then there's always the risk that after moving production to India, that China makes a deal and it becomes better to manufacture in China again.
There is always some risk with literally everything regarding Trump, but in this case, the risk is probably low.
1) Trump and Modi like each other and Trump needs to stop pissing off possible allies for the inevitable war with China. He needs for the other nations in the region to at least be not actively helping China to win. I suspect a lot of this kind of thinking is driving US relations with Russia - the US is trying to keep Russia from supporting China in the eventual war, but Trump is too dum
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The incredibly stupid thing about #1 is Trump is once again defeated by the counterfactual of if he just came into office and did absolutely nothing. All the nations in the region already were on the side of the US against China. Nobody in the region likes China, fear of China is how Biden got something of an alliance between Japan and Korea, two nations who historically haven't been super fond of eachother. [defense.gov]
Vietnam was in a war vs China in the 20th and is no fan of theirs and is the nation with the highe
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But moving production to India is a big risk, because you can't predict if there'll be higher tariffs on India soon.
This has nothing to do with Trump's tariffs. You don't get an operation like this up in a year. Apple has been manufacturing iPhones in India since long before the election. Foxconn produced a significant number of iPhone 15s in India already back in 2023. In fact Foxconn got the facilities ready to do that back in 2019, and they dramatically expanded the size of the Indian factory in 2020.
There is zero risk there. Foxconn can offer manufacturing at scale at either location already.
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Apple was already moving to India and other places long before Trump won the election. They already have been making some stuff in India for a few years now.
Apple has places they can invest in - they did a big investment in Indonesia. And they have factories in Brazil to counter high tariffs there (which only are slightly cheaper - it is still cheaper to buy a plane ticket to the US and buy the iPhone there than to buy it locally).
China is still their main manufacturing base, and likely things that sell les
This does not suck, it helps Apple rep (Score:1)
But moving production to India is a big risk, because you can't predict if there'll be higher tariffs on India
You are missing out on the big picture here. Apple has had a shift to manufacturing in India for years - amusingly for Tariffs FROM INIDA.
However on an even bigger picture, Apple benefits greatly from moving all U.S. manufacturing out of China - because that will finally shake the notion that U.S. iPhones are produced by some kind of slave labor in China.
Right or wrong, that allegation has dogged
Just requiring a second source ... (Score:2)
Apple is stuck right now.
If Apple is stuck it is their own fault, they didn't follow basic concepts like having secondary sources for critical things. Whether it is covid or tariffs or whatever is next, they needed to diversify their manufacturing.
I generally, I think one should manufacture regionally. Manufacture in the Americas for sales in the Americas, in Europe for sales in Europe, in Asia for sales in Asia. The focus on manufacturing in China is nothing more than an attempt to avoid externalities that would raise costs in
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So instead they'll probably still manufacture the vast majority of the phone in China where they're already set up to do that, and then ship it in 2 or 3 pieces to India where it will be "assembled" and put in the packaging, and shipped to the US to dodge the China tariff.
I guess we won't see all those jobs that cabinet secretaries were crowing about where you could screw together iPhones after all, as that's being outsourced to India from China.
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It's not a huge problem for Apple, because it makes sense for them to diversify anyway. They're building a lot of devices. It's not good for China, for sure, but if it's US vs. The World (certainly we're not making friends with India or China) then this is a net zero as far as "balance of trade" as it's just shifting it to another foreign country.
Just wait... (Score:2)
Just wait until Modi says something that irritates Orangino.
"I'M PUTTING A GOOGLE PERCENT TARIFFS ON INDIA! THEY ARE RIPPING US OFF! IT'S VERY BAD!!!"
How can companies do business in this sort of environment?
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Exactly correct. One would think that a vERy sMARt company like Apple would recognize the huge risk in setting up a whole new manufacturing chain, but apparently not.
Now, if Apple were a proper mafia-based corporation, they'd settle this problem with a visit to D.C. followed by a bunch of barrels dumped into the Potomac.
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A lot of companies are re-adjusting their risk factors though. What didn't make any sense a year or so ago now may be a move to consider. One of my vendors as I was told is moving at least one of their factories from Vietnam to Mexico.
Re:Just wait... (Score:4, Informative)
Exactly correct. One would think that a vERy sMARt company like Apple would recognize the huge risk in setting up a whole new manufacturing chain, but apparently not.
You understand non-US iPhones have been manufactured in India for years, right? Apple is simply shifting production volume between two existing facilities, one in India the other in China? Apple started making iPhones in India starting in 2017. [indianexpress.com]
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How can companies do business in this sort of environment?
They aren't. The mega corps had to have a sit down with the cheeto and tell him to knock it off or shelves are going to be empty soon. https://finance.yahoo.com/news... [yahoo.com]
Will Siri (Score:2)
Global supply chains are not sustainable (Score:2)
Think about the energy required to move all this widgets around the world to the assembly point with the cheapest possible manual labor. It all depends on cheaply available fuel for ships and planes. All these Asian countries depend on sea or air transport - youre not going to run trucks and rail lines through the Himalayan mountains with regularity just like you dont run them through the Darien gap.
When oil goes away, so does this.
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Confused - are you saying that producing iPhones in India isn't practical? Apple has been making iPhones in India for years...
youre not going to run trucks and rail lines through the Himalayan mountains with regularity
Because India lacks airports and sea ports?
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When is that expected though is the question. Seems like estimates are something between 40-60 years at current consumption vs known reserve rates. of course cost to extract will change how that all plays out but I don't believe we are going to run out in the near future and even in 20 years we (should) see a dropoff in consumption as more and more EVs hit the road so more and more crude oil will likely be diverted to diesel and kerosene and ship fuel oils, albeit this is easier said than done but it will
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When oil goes away, so does this.
Begging the question there. What makes you think oil will go away? And if it does, what makes you think it won't have an alternative in place?
Just Wait Unil Indo-China Become One Again. (Score:1)
Apple will get fucked again. Ahhh, that's too bad. Couldn't happen to a shittier company.
Down vote away, dumbasses.
Good news (Score:2)
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Whose policy? Because the iPhone 15 was produced at massive volume in India already. Foxconn started down this road while *checks notes* Biden was in office.
This is a case of Chinese labour becoming progressively less cheap, nothing to do with American policy.
This is a tariff play, nothing more (Score:5, Insightful)
So currently iPhones destined for the US market are manufactured in China, and iPhones for outside the US are manufactured in India. Because of the changing tariff environment, it is more cost-effective to shift that and have Chinese manufactured iPhones sent everywhere except the US, and Indian manufactured iPhones will be sent to America. There may be shifts in production volume between the two production sits, but that's it.
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There may be shifts in production volume between the two production sits, but that's it.
And companies have been doing such shifts for decades to reduce their costs (whether that is labor costs, taxes, availability of materials, etc.). Only because it is Apple does it make the news cycle. And as the various situations change again over the next months (which almost everyone expects will happen even as few can agree on what the changes will be), manufacturing locations may shift all over again.
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Maybe Trump needs to put a tariff on the money Apple collects from Chinese phones sold elsewhere.
Re: This is a tariff play, nothing more (Score:2)
He might, but if Tim Apple was at the million dollar a plate dinner at Mar-a-lago, and said nice things while he was there then probably Apple is fine.