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China Apple

Apple's Upcoming Ultra-Slim iPhone Hits Roadblock Over SIM Tray Rules 118

Posted by msmash from the stranger-than-fiction dept.
Apple's upcoming slim iPhone model faces potential sales obstacles in China due to design limitations that prevent fitting a physical SIM card tray, which is mandatory in the Chinese market.

The new device, planned for release next fall, measures 5-6 millimeters thick compared to the iPhone 16's 7.8mm, The Information reported Monday [non-paywalled source]. The company aims to revitalize iPhone sales in China, where revenue has declined for three consecutive years amid competition from Huawei and Vivo. The thin iPhone relies on embedded SIMs (eSIMs), which Chinese regulators haven't yet approved for smartphone use. Engineers are also struggling with battery placement and thermal management in the slim design, the report added.
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Apple's Upcoming Ultra-Slim iPhone Hits Roadblock Over SIM Tray Rules More

Apple's Upcoming Ultra-Slim iPhone Hits Roadblock Over SIM Tray Rules

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  • Ok...., (Score:2, Insightful)

    by registrations_suck ( 1075251 )

    Not sure why this is news. Product engineers often "struggle" in the process before landing on a final design.

    • Re:Ok...., (Score:5, Funny)

      by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @01:21PM (#64971095)
      Didn't they previously have an issue with hipsters and Fanbois bending their phones in their skinny jeans?
      • The only way I could see this turning out well is if the large components (screen, battery) are flexible.
        • Yup. Because what the market is absolutely crying out for is a phone that you risk breaking every time you put it in your pocket. And what they definitely don't want is a phone with a battery that lasts past lunchtime.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        Skinny jeans? How last century of you. Sagging is the style today.

        • I'm ahead of my time, I've been sagging for decades!

        • It all cyclical. Skinny jeans as we know them became a fashion "thing" around 2005, but I'm pretty sure tight pants were a thing back in the 1970s and you had nobility wearing what are basically leggings back in the 13th century. I remember sagging being a thing back in the 90s and the internet says sagging started in the prison system in the 1980s/90s.

      • Didn't they previously have an issue with hipsters and Fanbois bending their phones in their skinny jeans?

        I think it was more fat ass + slim phone + back pocket + sitting = bent phone. I guess Apple doesn't keep up with the news. [slashdot.org]

      • Didn't they previously have an issue with hipsters and Fanbois bending their phones in their skinny jeans?

        No. Apparently they were just sitting on it wrong. :-)

        More seriously, how thin does a cell phone need to be. Or, more pointedly, why make it even thinner? 5-6mm instead of 7.8mm, really?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dbialac ( 320955 )

          Sales team: Our sales are sagging.

          Marketing Team: I know! Make it thinner!

          Tim Cook: Engineering, get on it!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shmlco ( 594907 )

          Size is also proportional to weight. Oddly enough, some people don't like carrying bricks

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by dbialac ( 320955 )
            Go get a foldable flip phone, like the Z Flip. You'll never go back to a rectangular phone. It's thicker when folded, but fits in your pocket far better.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Money to be made selling Apple branded cases?

  • In other news (Score:3)

    by Big Bipper ( 1120937 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @01:07PM (#64971055)
    In other news, the iPhone 17 is reported to be so thin that you can cut yourself on it.

    • Re:In other news (Score:4, Funny)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @01:15PM (#64971075)

      In other news, the iPhone 17 is reported to be so thin that you can cut yourself on it.

      In Fanboi IQuarterly, we’re about to see the defensive outrage over Bendgate MarkII, Mod Dumb.

      • In Fanboi IQuarterly, we’re about to see the defensive outrage over Bendgate MarkII, Mod Dumb.

        "You're bending it about the wrong axis."

    • Maybe they can put the SIM in the millimeters-thick case the iPhone will require to protect its delicacy?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mysidia ( 191772 )

        How about just putting the SIM contacts on the surface beside the camera and make it a glue-on SIM tray.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      This just means you'll need a thicker case to put your iPhone in to protect it, right?

      Seriously.. noone asked for a thinner iPhone at this point, IMO.

  • and they have SIM trays just fine.

    This is not something worth posting on /.

  • The iPhone 6 was so thin it bent if you looked at it funny: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/... [fandom.com]

    It was 6.9mm thick.

  • Who wants this? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Echoez ( 562950 ) * on Monday November 25, 2024 @01:28PM (#64971109)

    Who is looking at their current 7.8mm phone and thinking "AHH! This is just too thick!" and is demanding a 1.8mm reduction? How about keep it at 7.8mm and improve battery life?

    And who is using an iPhone in China without a case (because it represents such a huge investment)? So whatever number of mm you shave off is just being replaced by the case because everyone is scared to drop their $1000USD phone.

    • "And who is using an iPhone in China without a case (because it represents such a huge investment)?"

      Nobody in real life, but TV show and movie characters will continue to do it. Apple apparently pays well for product placement.

      • I'm wondering the opposite: Who still uses cases for their phones?

        I don't. The phones are pretty tough. Cases and screen protectors detract from user experience.

        • I'm wondering who still uses iPhones (in China). Their premium appeal has largely gone, and many of the apps made in China are on the wechat/etc platforms which aren't as good on iPhone as on other platforms due to them using web technologies and iPhones safari/webkit engine doesn't work very well, or at least the same and the smaller (and reducing) user base makes the effort to support iPhone isn't worthwhile.

          • A WeChat app is an "app" running inside of WeChat - which is an App.

            So: they all run out of the box on an iPhone.

            iPhones safari/webkit engine doesn't work very well
            That is nonsense.

            or at least the same and the smaller (and reducing) user base makes the effort to support iPhone isn't worthwhile.
            For selling "random apps" probably.

            But if your bank does not support iOS with their banking app, people switch to another bank.

        • Most people here in Thailand do.
          On the back side of the phone they put a small/thin sheet of gold. Or push some money bills/notes between case and phone.
          In the corner of the case is a rope or a doll.
          So many phones look a like, and everyone puts his phone on the table.
          So, it is easy to mix your phone up with your neighbour and pick the wrong one when you go ...
          Extra casing and extra accessories helps a bit.

    • Re:Who wants this? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @02:02PM (#64971233)
      Agree. Similar with "bezels." Thin phones with edge-to-edge screens only make it harder to handle them and make them less robust. How many times have you handed a phone to someone so they could look at the screen only to "fat finger" along an edge and change what you wanted them to see?

      • Roughly a thousand times.
        And often I can not take a photo, as my phone thinks: this is a multi touch.
        Oh, shit. For a moment I was scared and thought: perhaps my phone really thinks?

    • I 100% agree with you - but Apple presumably has a pretty good idea of what the selling points are for their products.

      I don't particularly like them moving exclusively to eSIM either, but they don't ask me for product advice.

      • I don't particularly like them moving exclusively to eSIM either, but they don't ask me for product advice.

        That began in the USA with the iPhone 14 series. It probably annoys people who do that whole getting a local SIM while they travel internationally thing, but as close as I get to that is visiting World Showcase at Epcot.

        • Most people do not know that a phone can support several eSIM(s) at the same time.
          So, you get your travel SIM as "just another eSIM".

          Some phones can even be logged into several networks same time, via several eSIM(s).

          • For me, this is more about the easiest way to move to a different phone temporarily - like right now, when my wife's iPhone needs to go to Apple for a repair. Moving a physical SIM to a second phone (iPhone or not) is next to trivial.

      • 5 Insightful. This is rare self-awareness among technology enthusiasts. Slashdot is not the target audience. A billion people is the target audience. Half of Slashdot probably wants Emacs or Vim on their phone. Apple literally doesn’t give a shit — and rightfully so.

    • I actually think a thinner smartphone is a good thing, exactly because of the case. I would prefer if my phone (actually a Samsung) with the case had the thickness it has today without it.

    • And the case has an extra battery build in.

    • I just want a bigger camera bump to house bigger sensors with better image quality. 0 fucks given about thinness since i keep it in a flip case.

  • Form over function (Score:3)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @01:30PM (#64971115)

    Engineers are also struggling with battery placement and thermal management in the slim design, the report added.

    That's right - to hell with actual physics, the thing needs to be as close to paper thin as possible! COURAGE!!

    • This comment is copypasta from 2001 when people were complaining the Nokia 8220 was too thin and we'd never have anything thinner. The reality is that physics isn't the issue, it's an engineering problem to solve.

      Despite 100 years of neighsayers we have made everything successfully smaller and thinner. Except American cars.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      "We think you will like it." --Tim Cook(?)

  • ...Apple wants regulators in China to change a rule to enable Apple to gain an advantage over Chinese brands? That's not how things work in China.

  • Obviously, people don't want a brick, but 6 vs 8 mm, is not something people can honestly care about and defend. What is the point of making a phone 2mm thinner? Is there a physical and important reason for it? Is there a legislative reason for it? The only reason I can think that they're making the phone 2 mm thinner, from an already thin stance, is that either marketing didn't talk to engineering, or, management didn't talk to engineering, or, you let some jr engineers have play time.

    Consider that

    • Obviously, people don't want a brick, but 6 vs 8 mm, is not something people can honestly care about and defend. What is the point of making a phone 2mm thinner? ...

      Because that's what it takes to sell phones in Asia. People over there want high tech, retro/nostalgia tech does not sell. Consumers in Asia are very sensitive to what kinds of bells and whistles any high tech device has (cars included), if any are missing your device just does not sell and this is just one of the bells and whistles you have to include in your phone's feature list for it to sell.

      • I'll take your word about that, it just seems so pointless, that I can't grasp how anyone could or would care.

        • I'll take your word about that, it just seems so pointless, that I can't grasp how anyone could or would care.

          Maybe, but Asian consumers don't understand why you want a 15 mm thick phone with a 12 Megapixel camera, a tablet that can't make phone calls without being tethered to a phone or a car where you get a 360 degree parking camera, AI parking, electric seats in the base version when these bells and whistles make your life easier. It's just what happens when you have actual and intense completion in a market instead of a bunch of faceless megacorps who've divided the market into private fiefdoms where competitio

  • I don't want a thinner phone, I want one with outstanding, nay, ridiculous battery life.

    Do what it takes to accomplish that, and leave the being thin for the fashion-conscious.

    The last skinny iphone i had (8 plus?) was a total disaster, a flexy, breaky, no-battery-life piece of shit.

    My 13 pro is much more along what I expected.

  • Apple's upcoming slim iPhone model faces potential sales obstacles in China due to design limitations that prevent fitting a physical SIM card tray, which is mandatory in the Chinese market.

    This is not quite as hilarious as Ford's CEO Jim Farley making the 'shocking discovery' that on a business trip to China last year that the Chinese are about to run over the entire US/EU ICE car industry like a 70 ton tank crushing a Ford 150 but it's close. You'd think that a device manufacturer of Apple's size and caliber would have factored this into their design work, China is after all one of their biggest markets. This being said, I don't think it will take Huawei, Vivo and the rest of the Chinese pho

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      This being said, I don't think it will take Huawei, Vivo and the rest of the Chinese phone makers very long to start using eSIMs which will trigger a regulation change

      I don't think you understand how Chinese (or worldwide) regulations work. If the regulatory body having jurisdiction says "There will be a SIM tray," then that's the way phones will be sold. Period.

      Oh, and there will be a USB-C port. Get over yourself, Apple.

      • This being said, I don't think it will take Huawei, Vivo and the rest of the Chinese phone makers very long to start using eSIMs which will trigger a regulation change

        I don't think you understand how Chinese (or worldwide) regulations work. If the regulatory body having jurisdiction says "There will be a SIM tray," then that's the way phones will be sold. Period.

        Oh, and there will be a USB-C port. Get over yourself, Apple.

        CCP or not, the Chinese tech market moves at speeds you don't seem to comprehend. They have a level of competition over there that would scare most western tech companies to death and the CCP for all its faults is pretty good at supporting their tech sector by amending policy. The Chinese may come up with their own standard for eSIMs but it will happen, Apple will use it and this will become a non-issue. The Chinese market currently looks like this (Q3, 2024): Huawei (8%), Honor (15%), Xiaomi (15%), OPPO (

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by PPH ( 736903 )

          You can incorporate an eSIM if you want*. But if China wants to retain control of their subscriber market (and I suspect that the CCP really does) they won't be handing out subscriber accounts without having people physically show up and present their national ID. Nothing as easily hackable as eSIMs.

          *There exist some dual SIM phones. I could imagine an sSIM/removable model existing.

          • You can get sims sent to your address.

            Also, physical/esim combos exist already - that's the usual way esim has been implemented, ime.

            • Usually not over country borders.
              Most countries require physical presence and ID card for buying a SIM.
              In other words: if your Thai GF sends you a SIM to USA, it is registered in her name.
              So if you come here and want to open a bank account and register your phone number for internet banking (2FA) and/or using their banking app: good luck.

    • Bullocks.

      Cheap-ass manufacture in China works for things like iPhones and Androids because they're small, relatively cheap, and built by the millions. And if something slips through QC, Apple or Google or whoever will usually simply swap the defective phone out for a new one and send you on your way fully functional when you bring it into the store. Over the years, Apple has done that for me twice with iPhones and once with an Apple Watch. But no one is going to do a no-questions-asked swapout like that

      • Re:Well duuuh .... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Monday November 25, 2024 @03:53PM (#64971609)

        Bullocks.

        Cheap-ass manufacture in China works for things like iPhones and Androids because they're small, relatively cheap, and built by the millions. And if something slips through QC, Apple or Google or whoever will usually simply swap the defective phone out for a new one and send you on your way fully functional when you bring it into the store. Over the years, Apple has done that for me twice with iPhones and once with an Apple Watch. But no one is going to do a no-questions-asked swapout like that with big-ticket products like cars. And no way would I, for one, ever trust Chinese build quality for something that will not be immediately replaced if there are issues.

        "Cheap-ass manufacture in China ...", ... Have you been in a coma since 1998? Go drive a Chinese EV. I did, I also drove a bunch their Western and Asian competitors and there's no comparison. Most of these cars drive and feel like anything from a VW and up to Audi level. Whether it's cars, phones or something else, Chinese tech products are no longer low quality, they are in many cases better than anything the West, or the Koreans, or the Japanese can make at the moment and the sooner you wake up to that and up your game the better.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by flink ( 18449 )

        People said the same thing about "made in Japan" in the 70s and 80s and look at where we are now.

      • You're views are out of date...seriously out of date.

  • I never understood how someone can arrive to a design as bad as eSIM. While the intent (get rid of SIM card) was good, the result is so bad.

    1. Even if my phone has 128 GB of storage, somehow it isn't enough to store "eSIM" profiles. It requires a dedicated eUICC chip. Why?
    2. What's wrong with username + password, and why can't it be used to connect to phone networks? Or certificate or whatever... but not a dedicated chip, please.
    3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    4. Mobile carriers still have control on eS

    • Every shitty thing carriers can do with eSIMs, they can also do via IMEI pairing. Moving a physical SIM on Metro by T-Mobile's service doesn't work until you've had the carrier pair the new IMEI, and if you go in to a store or speak with customer service to do it, there's an associated fee. So yeah, some carriers are going to do their usual sleazy cash grabs, but that's always been on the table from the beginning. The only thing you can really do is not give them your business.

      The main thing that really

      • The main thing that really sucks about eSIMs is that there doesn't seem to be any cross-platform standard for transferring them from phone to phone.

        That's not the main thing at all. This is a consequence from bad design choices. If we step back a bit, there is no use for an eSIM. We could only have username and password and use it on any phone. Just like we do on enterprise WiFi. The carrier would be responsible to block the use of the same username on two phones at the same time if they want to. It could be by disconnecting the previous phone.
        I should be able to use one phone in the morning, and another phone in the evening, without having to "transfe

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mysidia ( 191772 )

        Every shitty thing carriers can do with eSIMs, they can also do via IMEI pairing.

        They can't do this to a high assurance, since the IMEI number could possibly be cloned to a new phone, and then the new phone would be "paired". The carriers can't actually trust that the hardware maker does not design a phone to make the IMEI easily changeable to an arbitrary value. There is no cryptographic material to authenticate the IMEI itself.

        All the cryptography keys required to actually authenticate a phone and the

        • The carriers can't actually trust that the hardware maker does not design a phone to make the IMEI easily changeable to an arbitrary value.

          It never had to be perfect, just good enough that most people are just going to pay the fee. IMEIs have already been used for quite some time to enable customer-hostile carrier behaviors which break the swapping functionality of a physical SIM. Plus, on an iPhone or Samsung phone (which are combined about 80% of the market in the US) it's non-trivial to alter the phone's IMEI and that absolutely is good enough for a carrier to enforce various sorts of cash grab policies by linking your device to a specifi

      • The main thing that really sucks about eSIMs is that there doesn't seem to be any cross-platform standard for transferring them from phone to phone.
        You scan the QR code again.
        Is that not simple enough?
        Or you enter the 36 characters long eSIM code on the other phone, that is not easy, as typing hex often leads to errors. But if you manage that: it works just fine.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      It requires a dedicated eUICC chip. Why?

      Since the purpose of the chip is to provide the A3/A8 symmetric keys used with the GSM protocol and authenticate the subscriber.
      It contains sensitive data materials which must not be deposited on storage accessible to apps running on the phone, and also must not be accessible to the phone's operating system.

      What's wrong with username + password, and why can't it be used to connect to phone networks? Or certificate or whatever

      A username+password is not secure. A

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        The cellular providers definitely want a "Something you have" factor for authentication in order to minimize the chance the access credential can be cloned.

        Too late. The programming s/w is already out there "in the wild". And eSIM keys need to be transmitted from a cloud somewhere. No more needing to obtain a hardware chip by showing up with ID and getting your smiling face on a security cam. Back alley phone cloners can work from anywhere.

        The Mobile carriers are Not going to issue credentials to use their network to a Type of SIM card that does not provide them the same if not more control and security assurances as a SIM.

        Like I said earlier: Whoops. Too late.

      • It requires a dedicated eUICC chip. Why?

        Since the purpose of the chip is to provide the A3/A8 symmetric keys used with the GSM protocol and authenticate the subscriber.
        It contains sensitive data materials which must not be deposited on storage accessible to apps running on the phone, and also must not be accessible to the phone's operating system.

        It's being written to by the phone's operating system.
        Still not a good reason why it can't be stored on NAND flash.

        What's wrong with username + password, and why can't it be used to connect to phone networks? Or certificate or whatever

        A username+password is not secure. A username+password is a Knowledge factor for authentication instead of a "Something you have" factor. The cellular providers definitely want a "Something you have" factor for authentication in order to minimize the chance the access credential can be cloned.

        The eSIM is not "something you have". It's a couple bytes of data. Not any different from a long password.

        A username+password does not prove that this is the one and only device authorized to the network by a particular subscriber.

        Exactly. Which is why username+password is so great!
        Mobile carriers shouldn't even be able to control which device connects to their network. Just like with a physical SIM, I (not the carrier) control which device I put it in.

        You can't produce the secure symmetric key required to be used with the GSM network from a username+password and provide the legal assurances carriers need for billing purposes.

        Not my problem / not a good excuse. They could have designed a be

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by mysidia ( 191772 )

          The eSIM is not "something you have". It's a couple bytes of data. Not any different from a long password.

          No. The size of the eSIM is determined by the carrier, and you don't know exactly what the size is, Because your phone's OS does not handle a copy of the eSIM itself. You are typically given a QR code to bootstrap a one-time over-the-air provisioning process.

          An important feature of the eUICC chip is the electrical interface is the same as the SIM card slot. Your cellular carrier is able to communi

          • The eSIM is not "something you have". It's a couple bytes of data. Not any different from a long password.

            No. The size of the eSIM is determined by the carrier, and you don't know exactly what the size is, Because your phone's OS does not handle a copy of the eSIM itself. You are typically given a QR code to bootstrap a one-time over-the-air provisioning process.

            An important feature of the eUICC chip is the electrical interface is the same as the SIM card slot. Your cellular carrier is able to communicate directly with the SIM card through the radio without going through the operating system on your device as an intermediary.

            The Baseband radio of the phone communicates directly with the Chip, and the carrier is able to program the chip directly through the interface b/w the radio and the active SIM.

            Are you saying that I can't install an eSIM to my phone if I don't have cell signal? If so, that's yet another eSIM major flaw, and regression compared to SIM.

            In modern times the physical SIM is often augmented by a Required registration of a phone by hardware ID before the phone can be used with 5G.

            That's not my experience, but that wouldn't be the first time carriers do something stupid, so I can't say I am surprised that some do.
            There is no good reason to do so, however.

            Carriers have to control which devices connect to their network

            Let me stop you right there. No they don't. I am sure they want to. Just like they want to charge exorbitant fees, and want to sell you SIM-locked phones.
            But they don't have to

          • Thank you, I learnt a lot.

    • You are an stupid idiot.

      1) you have a rogue app, that can access your memory, it can steal your eSIM and "email it" to someone else, and he now picky packs on your phone bill
      4) That is the most stupid thing I ever heard.

      • We are used to your stupid comments everywhere on Slashdot. You are being yourself once again.

        1. If that happens, I can just reset my password. Same thing as if someone steals my VoIP phone password. Or my email password. Or WiFi password. Or bank password. I don't need a dedicated chip to access my bank, why would it be any different for mobile networks? Anyways whether it's on a dedicated chip or on NAND flash, the security issue remains. The phone needs to be able to read it. An exploit could get the eSI

  • Only remotely interesting if they can get thickest part of the phone down.

    I have 15 right now and the camera package is proud of the back of the phone. It is not even centered so if you just lay the phone down on a hard surface you cant use the screen without it rocking, WTF who thought this was good idea and why.

    Oh right 'everyone has their phone is a case' -ok so we are back to 'thin really install that important is it?

    I miss my iphone 8, but it was going to get updates anymore. I would have got an SE b

  • Just make a SIM bump-out next to the camera. Claim thickness of phone not including bump-out. Done.

  • I can see why the Chinese government wants to keep physical SIMs. Physical SIMs provide a perfect way to completely control and monitor wireless phones without the user ever knowing.

  • These people have mental illness.

    No matter how thin they get they still think they're fat.

  • ... and now it is broken.

    Whoot the funk is this madness.

    Make it twice as thick, and put a battery into it.

    A real battery. Put an eInk screen onto the other side if you want.

    What is next? A (x/i)Phone as thick as a credit card? And the ATM swallows it, when I put it inside by accident?

    Why can a phone not just be a phone?

  • Apple is fucking dead. No product direction, just marginal and unremarkable incremental improvements and a price jump every fucking generation.

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