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Apple

macOS Sequoia Adds Weekly Permission Prompt For Screenshot and Screen Recording Apps (9to5mac.com) 78

Posted by msmash from the weekly-nags dept.
Apple is set to implement stricter controls on screen recording permissions in its upcoming macOS Sequoia release this fall. Users will be required to grant explicit permission weekly and after each reboot for apps needing screen access, 9to5Mac reports. From the report: Multiple developers who spoke to 9to5Mac say that they've received confirmation from Apple that this is not a bug. Instead, Apple is indeed adding a new system prompt reminding users when an app has permission to access their computer's screen and audio.
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macOS Sequoia Adds Weekly Permission Prompt For Screenshot and Screen Recording Apps More

macOS Sequoia Adds Weekly Permission Prompt For Screenshot and Screen Recording Apps

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  • Please do it for Apple apps too (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:31PM (#64690714)

    Authorities should pay close attention to force Apple to keep a level playing field and give these exact same warning boxes with zero modification to their own screenshot tool, webbrowser, quicktime, and any other tool that has this access. Guess what they will suddenly be able to make a less user-hostile way to show a message instead of a box that makes it look like you've been hacked.

    Also Apple, it is MY computer since you sold it to me. Not YOUR computer. And I bought it without this fuck you message to the user. So if you want to make changes that regress functionality please kindly refund me under EU consumer protection law or GTFO.

    • Great new ad campaign for Micro$oft: Person is at an important Zoom meeting, and suddenly the permissions nag prompt comes on, interrupting the meeting. Some funny frantic action but in the end, the person gets fired. M$ then boasts about how this does not happen on Windows. Probally will help clean up their own image in regards of the way auto updating in Windows behaved in the past.

      • Re:I hope M$ is watching. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday August 08, 2024 @02:51PM (#64690956) Homepage Journal

        Great new ad campaign for Micro$oft: Person is at an important Zoom meeting, and suddenly the permissions nag prompt comes on, interrupting the meeting.

        I see nobody is making you use Windows. If they were, you would know that Microsoft is the absolute lord of offensive popups. I have had to turn like five different things off in the OS and Office to stop the ones that I could stop. And that's with Windows 10! Windows 11 is even worse. Microsoft bringing up work-affecting popups would be like Apple bringing up mice with not enough buttons.

      • MS Teams has clumsy handling of popups and notifications. They can be customized, but the OOB config confounds many users.
        I always love when someone is sharing the screen or presenting on stage in an important meeting and a Teams chat preview popups in the bottom-right with something like, "LOL @ that moronic email from Donna in HR..."

    • Nobody is forcing you to upgrade the OS on your computer.

      • yet

      • Re: Please do it for Apple apps too (Score:4, Informative)

        by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @02:46PM (#64690940)

        Actually only reason I have a mac is to be able to publish ios apps, and for that you need xcode and apple forces you to update xcode and then xcode forces you to update your OS. So yes you do get forced if you want to make use of their (as the justice department of the US calls it, not my words) illegal monopoly marketplace. Which is true for *anyone* that wants to publish mobile apps.

      • Nobody is forcing you to upgrade the OS on your computer.

        Literally true but functionally false. New apps with security updates require new versions of the OS sooner or later, so if you want to run current versions and be secure then you need to update your OS.

        • Sooner or later, Apple will stop providing major OS updates to your Mac. It will probably be halfway through its usable life too.

          • It's been a while since I've used a Mac. The last one I had was a dome iMac. Which, of course, Apple abandoned before the hardware was worthless, so of course you're right. That's why I have a PC with Linux.

          • I have a couple of the large Intel iMacs running Linux for my kids to use. I tend to buy them just as they are going out of service. The screens are gorgeous, and they tend to run Linux quite nicely. You can get them comparatively cheap as well, as they aren't particular useful to normal people once they will no longer run MacOS.

          • Sooner or later, Apple will stop providing major OS updates to your Mac. It will probably be halfway through its usable life too.

            But then, people like DOSDude will come along and make it all better again. . .

    • "Also Apple, it is MY computer since you sold it to me. Not YOUR computer." As if companies listen or care about this these days. It's a lot like the Lord/serf relationship of feudal Europe. In this case Apple is the Lord, and you are the serfs. Besides, what are you going to do about it? Design and build a computer in your garage with a 'team' of only one or two people and sell it as an affordable competitor to Apple? Apple roars with laughter at such a preposterous idea!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Njovich ( 553857 )

        Besides, what are you going to do about it?

        Me? Against a trillion dollar company? Nothing. That's why I appealed to the authorities. I would use linux but because of the monopoly position you kind of have to use a mac for certain things. Only governments have any kind of footing against the tech giants.

        Coincidentally after all the posturing about malicious compliance to EU laws, Apple today sent out a press release that they are giving up on their fight to see if they can ignore laws: https://developer.apple.com/ne... [apple.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xeoron ( 639412 )
      Great... Google Meet is going to bug me weekly now for sharing my screen in meetings...

    • God, people will find anything to complain about.

      A quick popup once a week that makes keyloggers and certain classes of spyware nearly impossible? But what about my rights (to have my credit cards stolen by russian phishing gangs)!

      This is an entirely sensible measure. If my mom clicks on one of those stupid fake openai video ads currently besetting facebook and downloads a trojan I would *really like it* if the thing would pop up regular warnings saying "Hey this thing is trying to take photographs of your

      • God, people will find anything to complain about.

        A quick popup once a week that makes keyloggers and certain classes of spyware nearly impossible? But what about my rights (to have my credit cards stolen by russian phishing gangs)!

        This is an entirely sensible measure. If my mom clicks on one of those stupid fake openai video ads currently besetting facebook and downloads a trojan I would *really like it* if the thing would pop up regular warnings saying "Hey this thing is trying to take photographs of your paypal login, are you cool with that?". If thats enough for her to pick up the phone and call me and say "Hey son, this fun app is taking photographs should I be worried?" then that might just be enough to stop her losing her meagre pension savings AGAIN*

        And yes, I think it would be good if apples screenshotter tool pops up the warning too. Whether that actually happens is something we'll find out in due course.

        *Not that this applies, she's on a windows machine, although I've made sure it's updated to windows 11 that I've got the appropriate patch regime setup, and I've sat her down and given her some lessons on windows and internet safety. Hell I've even got her using a password manager now so she doesnt use the same stupid password for everything anymore.

        I agree with everything you said; except that Apple Intrinsic Apps/System Functions should do the PopUp, too.

        The best way to condition Users to Click-Through Security Dialogs is to bombard the User with them for no reason (Apple code is simply not secretly screenshotting their Users). Exhibit 1 regarding Bombardment: Windows' original UAC.

        • Even once a week, over long periods of time, is bombardment. I'd like to see just a monthly Security Check-Up reminder to users.

          • Even once a week, over long periods of time, is bombardment. I'd like to see just a monthly Security Check-Up reminder to users.

            As a User, of course I hear ya!

            But, from an anti-data-exfiltration POV, even a week is too long. . .

            So now what?

  • Isn't just for free trials anymore. It is now mainstream SOP.

    Built right into every phone OS.
  • Should be nudged quickly to the front doorway and then quickly shoved out and the door slammed behind him, all while this is taking place his keycard is being deactivated. But since they won't do that, I got *BAD IDEAZ* too, and Apple, here it is: Make that prompt show up for every open app every 5 minutes. And make sure it pops up for any read/write disk operation too. I hope you do this, Apple. Really I do.

  • I think that's what this means.

  • Fuck you. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:42PM (#64690752) Journal

    I really don't want to have to re-enable permissions to Zoom every god damn week so I can do my job.

    Who asked for this?

    • People are getting stupider and now the masses have to pay for one person's stupidity. Fuck the human race.

      • People are getting stupider and now the masses have to pay for one person's stupidity. Fuck the human race.

        More than one person was stupid enough to buy a Mac after they saw what Apple did with their phone, which runs essentially the same OS underneath. Now Apple has shifted their OS to using a processor derived from a phone processor. How long do you think it will be before they lock down their OS like they lock down their phones?

        • They probably got lulled into a false sense of security thinking that Apple wouldn't lock up the Mac because "Macs are used by professionals and it's mostly owned by people that need to get real work done while iPhones/Pads are for the drooling masses who play Candy Crush and watch cat videos all day." And really, they had no reason to believe that Apple would start locking up a machine that is used by professionals. iOS and Mac OS are two different markets. Windows Phone was locked up too, like iOS, but pe
          • ..I forgot about Windows "S" mode, because I had that crap disabled for so long, but that problem can fixed by a simple update from the Micro$oft store. So.. :-/

          • , but people didn't worry that the command prompt or being able to install unsigned apps was going to disappear from PC Windows.

            They should have worried, because the progression from roughly Windows 10 (1907) to Windows 11 is unmistakably moving toward locking the user out of PC Windows and stripping the OS of built-in control, support, and even help documentation, to herd you into complete dependence on the Cortana/Copilot search bar and an online Microsoft account to get things.

          • But t seems Apple is starting to give people reasons to worry about Mac OS being locked up just like iOS is.

            iOS was reason enough, because there was no good reason besides profit to do it in the first place. Android proves that.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Burdell ( 228580 )

      Apple management is salivating at that sweet 30% tax on all macOS application purchases once they go full walled-garden.

      • And there will be the army of suckups who bleat "this is capitalism, and if you don't like it, go somewhere else" "how dare you be against security", and "Apple is still better than big bad M$", yada yada..

    • you need the app store version of zoom that costs 30% more!

    • I really don't want to have to re-enable permissions to Zoom every god damn week so I can do my job.

      Who asked for this?

      It's an effing Click; not a damned three page form!

      • Yes, a click that will occur when I'm already in a meeting and trying to share my screen, and then I have to QUIT ZOOM AND RELAUNCH AND REJOIN MY MEETING WHILE EVERYONE WAITS.

        Every user, every week.

        Stop apologizing for shitty things that vendors do.

        • Yes, a click that will occur when I'm already in a meeting and trying to share my screen, and then I have to QUIT ZOOM AND RELAUNCH AND REJOIN MY MEETING WHILE EVERYONE WAITS.

          Every user, every week.

          Stop apologizing for shitty things that vendors do.

          It will happen when you Launch the App; not in the middle of your Meeting.

          Apple isn't Microsoft; who would interrupt a Fire Alarm to Start a Mandatory Windows Update!

          Jeez, Quit Hyperbolizing!

          • Except that I've already encountered this behavior when running Zoom and not having given it the permissions for screen sharing, and it indeed asks you when you try to turn it on, and informs you that you will need to quit and relaunch to get the permission.

            You can try it yourself:
            1. quit Zoom if it's open
            2. go into System Preferences > Privacy & Security > Screen & Audio Recording and turn off access to Zoom
            3. relaunch Zoom, join a meeting, and try to share your screen
            4. witness the permissio

    • Who asked for this?

      Facetime? Aka Apple. Will Facetime have the same popups?

  • Training users to ignore permission prompt? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:45PM (#64690762)
    Doing this regularly would train users to click accept without thinking. I am sure Apple can come up with a better system, maybe after reboot (happens rarely) and after update is better?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hjf ( 703092 )

      oh it's more annoying than that. you need to restart the app for the changes to apply.

      • :> User is at that slam dunk Zoom meeting and then the prompt shows up. User ultimately loses out on the deal because of this. Nice.

        • :> User is at that slam dunk Zoom meeting and then the prompt shows up. User ultimately loses out on the deal because of this. Nice.

          I'm sure it's at Application Launch.

    • Doing this regularly would train users to click accept without thinking. I am sure Apple can come up with a better system, maybe after reboot (happens rarely) and after update is better?

      There is no perfect frequency, unfortunately. Once a week really isn't fast enough, security-wise; but is probably a reasonable compromise.

  • Needs to allow an override.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:48PM (#64690774) Journal

    I understand the logic behind this move, but at least let users choose to "permanently approve" a given app (can be reset when the app gets an update patch or version). It's most useful as a default to alert you if a program is trying to recording you didn't expect or weren't aware of.

  • We all know that there is often a trade-off between convenience and security. Somebody at Apple decided that anything inconvenient is automatically more secure, just because it's inconvenient. The slope is now being greased. Lets see how far down it they get before they realize what they're doing.

    • I can tell you that now. 100% locked down against the owner, walked prison for apps, and you will do as you are told (by Apple). That's the end of the slippery slope.

      • I can tell you that now. 100% locked down against the owner, walked prison for apps, and you will do as you are told (by Apple). That's the end of the slippery slope.

        I'll do you one better: In the interest of security, Apple releases the absolutely secure computer. It sits on a table with no network connection and no user interface, though does show some brilliant colors flashing on a screen. Perfect security!

        • Or they can sell the "Air Mac". Nothing inside that fancy thousand dollar cardboard box. Absolute security!

          • Or they can sell the "Air Mac". Nothing inside that fancy thousand dollar cardboard box. Absolute security!

            It'll need a lighted apple on it though.

            • The cardboard box will have one. A white LED connected to watch batteries inside a translucent diffuser case shaped like an apple. Also sealed up in epoxy to protect the user.

        • Apple already did in the 1990s. It was the Quadra 900 and 950 with the keyswitch. Turn the keyswitch to the left setting, and it has this functionality of being absolutely secure. At the time, it also talked about has having being functionality identical to what Windows 3.1 could do as well.

          (/s of course...)

          • "keyswitch" - that sure brings back memories. Every single AT clone seemed to have this. Of course losing the keys meant having to jumper where the keyswitch connected to the motherboard. But a Mac with a PC compatibility card (I think they were up to Pentium before it was discontinued) was the shzit in the mid 1990s.

    • We all know that there is often a trade-off between convenience and security. Somebody at Apple decided that anything inconvenient is automatically more secure, just because it's inconvenient. The slope is now being greased. Lets see how far down it they get before they realize what they're doing.

      Once per week/reboot is a decent compromise between being ridiculous and being too lax.

  • Get ready to jump ship (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Malay2bowman ( 10422660 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:57PM (#64690794)
    The fact that they are doing this and "notorized apps" on Macs means that they are going to lock up Mac OS sometime in the future, like they did with iOS. The time is now to start making plans to migrate to a different platform. This is the "boiling frog" experiment in action.

    • The EU will not allow this and force the real firefox to be installed on apple systems.

    • Having read the other thread, I'm disappointed but not surprised how many people are insisting that these moves are a good thing.

    • If one doesn't want to deal with GateKeeper, just run:

      sudo spctl --master-disable

      Done. End of problem.

      You can also disable SIP and other OS protections as well.

      The EU would have Apple's hide if Apple went after macOS. Also, how can one develop code? One can use an iPad for interface prototyping, but for builds, one still needs a Mac, just due to workflow, and the need for third party tools.

      • And us Americans will get - "This function is too dangerous for you to use and it has been disabled for your protection. Would you like a lollipop instead?" whenever we try to access the command prompt. But this is because we are in the land of the free market, and the EU is the nebulous term "commies". I guess if I want to buy a new Mac, I'll have to import it from an EU country. :-/

      • If one doesn't want to deal with GateKeeper, just run:

        sudo spctl --master-disable

        Done. End of problem.

        You can also disable SIP and other OS protections as well.

        The EU would have Apple's hide if Apple went after macOS. Also, how can one develop code? One can use an iPad for interface prototyping, but for builds, one still needs a Mac, just due to workflow, and the need for third party tools.

        And Apple has said as much, several times; but, ya know: Haters Gotta Hate. . .

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Lehk228 ( 705449 )
      if they do that they will permanently be the top of my recommendations whenever someone who doesn't know computers asks my advice for computers, same as iPhone is top of the list for phones.

      steering people towards apple products means i don't get random emergency requests for help on a Saturday afternoon.

    • The fact that they are doing this and "notorized apps" on Macs means that they are going to lock up Mac OS sometime in the future, like they did with iOS. The time is now to start making plans to migrate to a different platform. This is the "boiling frog" experiment in action.

      They've been doing Notarized Apps on macOS for quite a while now. Stop handwringing

    • The fact that they are doing this and "notorized apps" on Macs means that they are going to lock up Mac OS sometime in the future, like they did with iOS.

      I tried the Apple 'ecosystem' out from 2005 until 2012. The end goal was obvious over a decade ago... but it was the low quality that pushed me away. Bloating batteries, unreliable wifi, wonky screens, I just couldn't believe my neverending luck. It was bad luck, but it was consistent enough to lead me to believe that it wasn't just luck. Fuck Apple. I don't mind if they exist, but I will never willingly use them again.

      On the bright side, I still have an iPad 2 that needs to be charged only once a month. Or

  • Remote Access? (Score:3)

    by dark.nebulae ( 3950923 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @01:59PM (#64690798)

    When I'm on the road, I'll use Splashtop Streamer to access my home systems.

    How will this weekly prompt affect my ability to remotely access the system?

    • When I'm on the road, I'll use Splashtop Streamer to access my home systems.

      How will this weekly prompt affect my ability to remotely access the system?

      If you leave the connection up, probably none. If you Login Daily, you should have to Click OK to a Security Dialog once a week when you launch your (client) App.

  • Not a fan (Score:5, Informative)

    by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @02:12PM (#64690838)

    Getting remote access to a Mac to support a client is already a pain. This will mean the pain never stops.

    • I was going to ask how this affects VNC access to the desktop. My mac sits in a cupboard, connected to the router, and that is how I access it.
  • As Dr. Harry Vanderspeigle would say - THIS IS SOME BULLSH*T. Guess I need to polish up my Linux admin skills.

  • I guess Apple went:
    "Gee, Microsoft is really shit these days. Let's see if we can outdo them!"

  • this, coupled with more restrictions blocking homegrown apps means that Apple is moving further away from users having full rights over the computers they buy.

  • ... to drive up the adoption rate of desktop Linux.

  • It sounds to me like Apple is planning to unify ipadOS and macOS into one system and this is the start of that unification. Then you will run the same apps on both a tablet and a laptop and they will add the additional security layers/hardware as necessary to the macOS. They've already got the processors running both.

  • One key aspect of this is if I can just click "OK" and get on, or if it is like the first time you give permission: The application needs to exit and restart. While I understand the desire to do this on a phone where you have many "free" apps who ask for permissions that may not be needed for the purpose of the app - but just for tracking/ads/selling data - and a periodic reminder can be useful - I'm not seeing it as very useful on a Mac. Also, maybe once a month would be better.

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