Epic Games Says Apple Stalling Launch of Its Game Store in Europe (reuters.com) 61
"Fortnite" maker Epic Games said on Friday Apple was impeding its attempts to set up a games store on iPhones and iPads in Europe, the latest escalation in a bitter feud over the technology giant's control of the iOS app ecosystem. From a report: Apple has twice rejected documents it submitted to launch the Epic Games Store because the design of certain buttons and labels was similar to those used by its App Store, the video-game publisher said. "We are using the same 'Install' and 'In-app purchases' naming conventions that are used across popular app stores on multiple platforms, and are following standard conventions for buttons in iOS apps," Epic said in a series of posts on X. "Apple's rejection is arbitrary, obstructive, and in violation of the DMA, and we've shared our concerns with the European Commission," it said. Under pressure from European regulators, Apple had in March cleared the way for Epic to put its own game store on iOS devices in Europe.
Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple believes that the device doesn't become yours when you purchase it, and that they know better than you what you want, and also that it doesn't matter what you want.
If they would rent you the device and be responsible for all damage and malfunction, and had to pay you back for any time where the device wasn't working correctly, then that would be justified. It would be device as a service. But they are selling it to you, and then it becomes your problem, but it's still under their control.
Apple wants to sell you a device, and treat it like your device when it comes to have it repaired, but treat it like it's theirs the rest of the time. And most users have no idea that this is even true until they run into something they want to do that Apple doesn't approve of.
Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:4, Funny)
Or maybe Apple holds themselves accountable if their device security gets in the same quality as Android. Which is likely what will happen in the EU.
it's about the 30% and content censorship! (Score:2)
it's about the 30% and content censorship!
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No one is forced to buy Apple devices.
No one is forced to develop software for Apple devices.
Re: it's about the 30% and content censorship! (Score:2, Insightful)
No one is forced to buy Apple devices.
No one is forced to develop software for Apple devices.
That's a valid reason to lock it down, but let's stop pretending that this is about security. It is not and never was. That's like saying if you bring your own popcorn to the movie theater, it's probably laced with arsenic.
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Because opt out is never opt out.
It'll be a single release cycle after that I'm forced to download the apps I want from a private store that isn't having any trash filtered out by a third party.
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Get past your ego, and stop pretending the world revolves around you and your appreciation of Apples walled garden. Apple made a decision to operate in the EU and as a result they need to open up to competition. If Apple who decided to be DMA compliant to make 100s of billions of dollars in the EU is now not suited to your tastes, then you are free to buy another phone. No one forces you to by an iPhone. Consumers like you are not required to buy their products. Coders who think like you are free to ta
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Get past your ego, stop pretending Apple consumers are morons who need Android users to tell us what devices to buy, how they should work and what we want.
If I wanted an android, I'd own one. I've had 2 and don't like either one.
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Get past your ego. Nobody brought up Android you twat, except for you. I haven't used Android since a Pixel 3. The only people here prescribing how someone should use their devices are Apple and yourself. I have a Macbook Pro M2, iPad Pro M4, and an iPhone 12 Pro Max. But this isn't about me or what I want, this is about your cringeworthy whining about Apple losing some level of control over you as a consumer.
"Consumers are not required to buy their products. Developers are not required to code for them."
Re: it's about the 30% and content censorship! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Consumers are not required to buy their products. Developers are not required to code for them."
This is irrelevant. The issue is anti trust and anti competitive behavior. It has nothing to do with the buyers, it has to do with Apple.
The EUs position is exactly like that of the FTC in banning anti competitive behavior in so called "linked sales", or restrictions on aftermarket parts.
It is that Apple, given its market position, is not permitted to ban its customers from some kinds of in store purchases, and cannot engage in some kinds of linked sales restrictions.
You could put your point in reverse. Apple is not obliged to run an app store. But if it chooses to do so, it cannot restrict the choices available to people who use it. Or you could say, Apple is not obliged to sell its products in the EU. But if it chooses to do so, it will have to play by EU rules. Its like if you want to import cars into the US, you have to meet US standards. If you want to sell drugs, they have to be locally approved for sale in that jurisdiction.
Its like GM back in the day when it was a real powerhouse. GM was unable to ban the use of aftermarket third party parts. Or refuse to sell to you unless you used GM finance. Or to insist that you get your insurance cover from their in-house insurance subsidiary. AT&T similarly was unable to ban the use of third party CPE from being connected to its network.
An amusing variant of your argument might go like this. You say the EU regulation is unreasonable. Well, no-one has to live in the EU if they don't want to. Also irrelevant, the issue is not what you are obliged to do or not, its the merits of the regulation.
The EU has learned from US competition regulation practice over the years, and is applying its lessons. Except the difference is, the Commission can change the law any time it wants, by decree. There is no pesky Congress or Senate to worry about. So it will, and it will keep on keeping on, until it has smashed the walled garden.
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Apple is not a monopoly. Not even close. They compete in a very competitive marketplace for users who can easily dump them and switch to an alternative at any time with minimal hassle.
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Do you know why I like my Apple devices so much? -Because- Apple forces consistency and -reduces- options.
Apple neither forces consistency nor reduces options. Trying to teach a non-computer user how to use the iPhone's email program is maddening because of the UI.
Because Apple/Google have a duopoly on OSes, it's ethical for humanity to force them to meet certain requirements.
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What is the correct number of companies in the market you think should be required before the government can stop forcing themselves into the feature design and software architecture process?
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The question is whether they are causing problems. In the case of a monopoly/duopoly, it's a question of whether there are alternatives. There aren't. If there are infinite companies, and they are all causing the same problem, then it's ethical for humanity to force them to change.
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How are there not alternatives to Apple?
There are numerous androids made by different manufacturers that provide customized OS, apps, feature sets, prices and so on.
Most/all of them provide usb-c, side load, and everything else everyone bitches about Apple not having.
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Re: it's about the 30% and content censorship! (Score:2)
It's actually interesting that you mention consistency -- apple is actually violating its own design rules that will get third party developers banned from publishing in the app store. Namely they're doing so with the infamous green bubbles. I only saw them for the first time a few days ago and I now see why people are annoyed with it.
It's not at all the fact that they're green, it's the fact that apple deliberately chose eye straining colors that they themselves have banned due to being annoying to look at
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Is there something in the official Apple design doc that says green is not allowed?
I don't know and don't care. It is consistent, even if ugly. It tells me that when I test someone on an inferior sms only device I have no guarantee or even knowledge if they received as opposed to knowing they will get my blue messages if they are on the superior messaging technology. It would be wrong to give both the same color when they behave differently.
Anyway, my bigger thing about Apple being forced to open side lo
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Or maybe Apple holds themselves accountable if their device security gets in the same quality as Android
Apple doesn't hold themselves accountable for security. Try getting any kind of refund if your device gets hacked.
The issue here is not about security, it's about the "look and feel" of buttons.
Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:2)
Or maybe Apple holds themselves accountable if their device security gets in the same quality as Android. Which is likely what will happen in the EU.
If it did, it's because apple does not and never did have a good security model. Your walled garden is nothing more than security theater.
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My wife has had malware on her iPhone. I've never seen it on any of my Android devices, or her old one. YMMV but Android seems more secure to me.
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My wife has had malware on her iPhone. I've never seen it on any of my Android devices, or her old one. YMMV but Android seems more secure to me.
Details, please!
Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:2)
I don't know about malware (I've never encountered any on a mobile device) but I have seen that iphones get their own exclusive spam via imessage. Seems all somebody has to do to spam imessage is just buy any cheap apple device and they've got the keys to the kingdom.
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Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:2)
I think that's what the spammers count on, just hit numbers until one sticks. The source is always some random icloud account. Anyways, RCS still has to originate from carrier networks, which have gotten especially good lately about preventing spam ever since SHAKEN/STIR.
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Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:2)
Then you don't know how RCS works. Put it this way: You're not going to get any more spam from RCS than you will from regular SMS. You'll continue receiving bonus imessage spam, however, unless you get off imessage.
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Then you don't know how RCS works. Put it this way: You're not going to get any more spam from RCS than you will from regular SMS.
You do know one major change is that RCS can be sent via Wifi outside the control of the carriers, right? Also that means far less costs per message which is a huge benefit.
You'll continue receiving bonus imessage spam, however, unless you get off imessage.
I guess that describes your lack of thought processes. Why would spammers still use iMessage to reach only iPhones when they could use RCS to reach both? You do know iPhones are not the majority of phones worldwide, right?
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From memory there were two. One filled her calendar up with multiple spam messages per hour. The other was some kind of website clicker, generating false ad clicks or something.
Her phone was not rooted, she only ever installed stuff from the Apple App Store and rarely even used Safari to browse, it was mostly WeChat and DuoLingo.
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Or maybe Apple holds themselves accountable if their device security gets in the same quality as Android. Which is likely what will happen in the EU.
Yeah, about that...
https://www.cisa.gov/news-even... [cisa.gov]
Re:Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:5, Insightful)
You are reading the wrong thing into this. The device is absolutely *yours*. You can do with it what you want within the capabilities advertised or presented to you at purchase. Anything else requires you to hack your way through it which is also within your entitlement.
What you can't do is dictate the way a service is provided for you. You didn't purchase an app store. That is a service provided to you, and it stands to reason that you don't get to dictate how this service works since that is how all services operate. There are plenty of people who are 100% fully happy with the functionality of their iPhone (yes I think those people are mad, but that is their choice to make).
This all has nothing to do with the subject at hand though, which is a dispute with a supplier and has nothing to do with your iPhone or what you want it to do.
Also what you want is something you decide at the time of purchasing. Apple's phone doesn't do what I want it to, so I didn't buy it. That's literally how everything in life works. You have got to stop conflating the idea of ownership with the delusional expectation that everyone will bow to provide you a custom device meeting your unique requirements. All you achieve is coming across like a whiney brat.
Buy the device that suits your use case. If that device doesn't exist (and you think there's sufficient market for one) then make one. Either you'll get rich, or realise that general consumers and you differ in desires.
Re:Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:5, Informative)
Epic Games has the right to build a game store with it's own payment system for use in iOS. The EU courts already stated as such. The article is about the Epic Game Store being rejected for reasons they (Epic and likely the EU) consider arbitrary, capricious and baseless. All your personal attacks ignore the facts that the EU has mandated this for Apple to meet DMA compliance. Apple can choose not to offer their device in the EU or they can comply with the intent of the DMA and not get hassled and or fined. From what I read Drinkypoo basically noted that Apple was not being compliant with the DMA in their response to Epic and this seemed congruent with their closed ecosystem and lock in behavior which led to them running afoul of the DMA in the first place. This is not a defense of the DMA or an attack on Apple. This is the framework they have to operate in to make their hundreds of billions in the EU. All of your bloviation is meaningless drivel that is ignorant of the legal rights of the consumer under the DMA in the EU.
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There are two potential outcomes in this.
1. The EU courts find Apple has legitimate reasons for rejecting the app store and Epic manages to meet their guidelines which are being upheld for valid concerns or
2. The EU sides with Epic and Apple receives a fine for their malicious compliance and is forced to meet the spirit of the DMA.
I don't trust Epic any more or less than I trust Apple to be a decent company looking out for the consumer. I do believe that with billions of dollars being at stake, that Epic h
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I don't trust Epic any more or less than I trust Apple to be a decent company looking out for the consumer. I do believe that with billions of dollars being at stake, that Epic has a vested interest in getting their game store up and running, while Apple benefits by not having competition.
We are talking the same Epic that refused to believe what everyone has said about their commission structure: it is impractical. Epic’s stand against the 30% commission is was everyone was being "greedy” as that was too high. Epic launched their store 5 years ago and have yet to return any profit with their lower "fair" commissions.
Reading Epic's emails about the commission it seems Epic did not factor development, infrastructure, and support as part of the cost of an online store. Those things
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> To this day, there are many features missing from Epic like user reviews. While that takes time, Epic does not see in a hurry to fix their existing game store. I do not put it past Epic to launch a poorly implemented store just to spite Apple
Stop being full of shit, You can literally review games, maybe you have a kids account?
source:
Daily Fortnite player.
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You're reading too much into Drinkypoo's response. He is spouting the same low IQ "I should own my device" comment he makes on every Apple article. For the record I absolutely 100% agree with you that Apple is acting shitty to Epic, but at the same time I lament the fact that this is not the discourse being started here. Your post is relevant, the OP's should be modded off topic, but Slashdot doesn't seem to want to get that nuance.
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You are reading the wrong thing into this. The device is absolutely *yours*. You can do with it what you want within the capabilities advertised or presented to you at purchase.
That argument would make sense if there were plenty of options. But since there are only two realistic OSes available in the phone market, we have a right to demand better. Consumers shouldn't need to submit to the anti-competitive behavior of the duopoly.
Re: Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:2)
I agree that duopolies are bad and limit consumer choice, but I do not see having the government micromanage duopolies as a reasonable solution.
If the EU cared about the abuse of duopolies then preventing consolidation is where you start. Gee, too bad no one thought allowing Microsoft to absorb Nokia would be a bad thing. Too bad Apple and Google are free to buy up any tech company with patents or talent that will help them maintain the duopoly.
The EU is trying to cure a disease by treating symptoms. The di
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What you can't do is dictate the way a service is provided for you.
True, but *we* can dictate the terms on which Apple is allowed to do business. The EU is a democracy, the people get to decide what the rules are, not corporations.
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That is a service provided to you, and it stands to reason that you don't get to dictate how this service works since that is how all services operate.
Following your logic here, then why is the App store allowed to dictate how you use your device if you are not allowed to dictate the App store?
Re:Apple Believes your device is their device (Score:4, Interesting)
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I don't trust Epic, but I don't trust Apple even more.
I do think the same general principle should apply to everything, and the real answer is that Epic fears the response if they should try to accomplish that.
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Epic is in alignment with Apple standards (Score:5, Insightful)
The look and feel of the Apple sandbox is tightly designed, adheres to guidelines and conforms to Apple engineered architecture. There has always been several ways to build apps as long as they are Apple conformative.
Here, Apple are rejecting Epic store that is in conformity to Apple interface design, in fact, violates Apple patented ornamental and utility assets. SO Apple have chosen to weaponize its IP in a manner to the exclusion of its own design, engineering and architectural guidelines. Not only is AAPL insisting Epic and Epic software design be non-comformative to standard, accepted and enforced platform UX principles it forces Epic Software Store to violate every principle that Apple standardizes.
THIS for all appearances the last quiver of arrows from a giant who is out of ideas, new product and desperately hanging to what remains of SteveJobs empire.
Imposed Design (Score:2)
Oh - you mean Epic doesn't like some 3rd party imposing design or feature requirements? How ironic!
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EU People will be free to install any non-Apple OS or software that they want.
The main problem with this is the EU has very strict laws on support. Apple may technically be required to provide support on an OS that is not theirs.
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Support: Reset to factory settings.
Have a great day!
Article is Out of Date (Score:2)
On July 5, 2024, the very same day this "News" was Published, Apple Approved Epic's Alternate App Store.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024... [macrumors.com]
Three Days Later, I appear to be the very first Slashdotter that has pointed this out.
Way to have your finger on the pulse, Slashdot!
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