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Japan Enacts Law Forcing Third-Party App Stores On Apple and Google (appleinsider.com) 97

Posted by BeauHD from the more-the-merrier dept.
Following in the European Union's footsteps, Japan's parliament has enacted a law on Wednesday that will prohibit big tech from blocking third-party app stores. AppleInsider reports: The intention of the bill is that it will facilitate competition and reduce app prices. Japan's government reportedly believes that Apple and Google are a duopoly, and that they charge developers high fees that are then passed on to users. Big tech companies with App Stores will also prohibit companies from prioritizing their own services. Google is likely to be hit hardest by this. Violators will initially be fined up to 20% of the domestic revenue of the specific service that broke the law. The fee can increase to 30%, if the behavior continues.

The Japanese government's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) will choose which firms to apply it to. Companies that will be regulated will be required to submit compliance reports annually. While it hasn't been explicitly said that Apple and Google must comply, It seems certain that the announcement that they'll be held to the provisions is imminent. The Japan FTC isn't expected to add any Japanese firms to the list. The law likely won't take effect until the end of 2025.

Japan Enacts Law Forcing Third-Party App Stores On Apple and Google More | Reply

Japan Enacts Law Forcing Third-Party App Stores On Apple and Google

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  • will apple be able to do the core fee + host the 3rd party stores or will they be forced to have full side loading with no control at all allowed?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I expect they will just bring whatever they are doing in the EU to Japan as well.

      Not sure why the headline mentions Google, you have been able to load 3rd party app stores on Android since day one. I've been using F-Droid for nearly 14 years now.

      • google blocked one plus from pre loading the epic store on their phones. Stuff along the lines of That or maybe letting phone carriers roms block side loading as well.

      • Probably an attempt at pre-emptive both-sides-ism to head off the "bbbbbut what about Google?!?! Why is this only targeting Apple /cry" inevitable response from ignorants that don't know that sideloading is a thing on Android, and has been for (as you say) more than a decade.

    • will apple be able to do the core fee + host the 3rd party stores or will they be forced to have full side loading with no control at all allowed?

      Since, according to the story, this is just allowing third-party app stores, and not direct installs/sideloading, it'll probably be just like they're doing in Europe, which follows the letter of the ruling, but seems suspiciously wide of the spirit of it.

      I wonder if Japan will tolerate the insistence that Apple still be paid for apps downloaded through other app stores?

    • will apple be able to do the core fee + host the 3rd party stores or will they be forced to have full side loading with no control at all allowed?

      Who cares? This problem is entirely manufactured by Apple to begin with, let them sort it all out now that they have been called out on their stupid monopoly tactics.

  • Cue the usual anti-regulation comments (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Google should just stop doing business in (EU/UK/Japan), that would teach them a lesson" is one of my favorites.

    Every country looks after their own interests, the US certainly does.

  • " The Japan FTC isn't expected to add any Japanese firms to the list"

    Because there aren't any major mobile OS players in Japan.

    They also won't hold any Ethiopian companies to it, either.

    • More like, Nintendo and Sony would be third and fourth on that list if they were to do so. After all, Exclusivity and Publishing Agreements are very profitable for them just as they are for Apple, and use the exact same technological methods to enforce them. E.g. A locked bootloader that refuses to boot anything not signed by the manufacturer, and nothing signed by the manufacturer allows for non-monitized-by-the-manufacturer distribution.

      Given that Nintendo lobbied the Japanese government to outlaw offer

  • It's an experiment (Score:3)

    by david.emery ( 127135 ) on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:50PM (#64545177)

    To see if prices actually drop when various app developers look at fee structures for the various stores. I'm sure the big companies will amortize the cost of their stores, but I'll be surprised if Epic, for example, actually drops prices with competition. Sure, they'll sell the game they had on the Apple store for $10 on their own store at $10, but not $9. But they'll also offer it on the Apple store for $20, just so they can point to that and claim "consumer cost savings." But will the indy app developers see any real savings AND pass them onto consumers? I'm pessimistic, which means I'd be only pleasantly surprised.

    • I don't understand why vendors would drop their prices.

      If people have already shown that, for example, they're willing to pay $5 for my app, would would I ever charge them less?

      Oh, sure, there is the theory that if vendors with "competing" apps charge less, I have to charge less too, otherwise I will lose sales. But is that really true?

      I'll admit - I have bought few apps, and I've not paid much for the ones I do have. Almost all the ones I have were free. But the ones I DID pay for were largely "impulse b

      • If people have already shown that, for example, they're willing to pay $5 for my app, would would I ever charge them less?

        Yeah. Many app vendors do exactly this. Lower the price of IAPs 15% outside the store, user now has an incentive to buy it that way, you get to keep an additional 15% you otherwise wouldn't have. You and the customer both win, and Tim Apple can go fuck himself sideways.

        • Maybe I'm just out of touch, but all the apps I've bought have only been a dollar or two. I'm not shopping around to save 15 to 30 cents on a purchase.

          Are people really paying significant money per app?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by narcc ( 412956 )

            Are people really paying significant money per app?

            It costs real money to make software and not every application can get away with endlessly harassing users with ads, iap, or some subscription nonsense. The hell we're in at the moment isn't sustainable. Reality will eventually hit the mobile software market.

            • My most expensive app is ThaiDict, basically an English to Thai translator with a glossary and thesaurus.
              About $40

              • So....assuming 30% off somewhere else......that's $12.

                People are really going to go out of their way, setting up with a new vendor and payment system and so forth to save a lousy $12?

                Jazz.

                • If the effort to do so is minimal, then yeah. Particularly if buying outside the app store also means you get access to it outside of the app as well.

                • I dunno back in the old days everything would have to be priced xx.99. That 1 cent made a huge difference in sales. That was a different generation, not sure if still applicable but never underestimate the effect of miniscule price difference. '

                  Another case in point, flying. People will complain to no end about getting crammed into a seat for 5 hours with their knees in their chest, unable to move, with just a bag of pretzels for nourishment. But, if they ponied up sometimes as little as $30 they could g

          • I wouldn't say you're out of touch but I'll provide a counterpoint anyway.

            I've paid 20€ more than once. Korg Gadget for example is currently $39.99 and most of the DLC instruments cost $14.99 each. A lot of prices have gone up and worse than that almost everything is subscription now. Another problem is that for various reasons you have to buy many of what is essentially the same app. I have at least a dozen camera and music player apps each. It all adds up.

            But the biggest issue is that some apps that

          • Well that would depend on the app, wouldn't it?

            Sure, if you're looking for a weather forecasting app, the ceiling is basically $5 because there's a lot of competition, and you have to bring some pretty damn good functionality to justify that $5 - simply removing ads and opening up more customization and full features isn't going to justify the cost.

            However, if you are Epic Games and Apple is siphoning off 30% of in-app purchases just because they can, and they're preventing you from sending your users to yo

            • Well, I guess that's it. Not being someone that buys "in app" stuff - I just don''t know what that eco system is like. I've always imagined someone may spend $1 here, or a $1 there....even over time, still not much money. Is this not the case?

        • That sort of "up charge" selling also happens on Amazon, especially with books available on a seller's own website compared to their Amazon listing. Hint - Amazon price is usually higher.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by unrtst ( 777550 )

      ... if Epic, for example, actually drops prices with competition. Sure, they'll sell the game they had on the Apple store for $10 on their own store at $10, but not $9. But they'll also offer it on the Apple store for $20, just so they can point to that and claim "consumer cost savings."

      Apple charges a 30% fee for apps and in-app purchases. If an app is being sold on Apples store for $10, Apple is pocketing $3 and they're getting $7.
      To get the same $10 they would get from selling on their own store, they could charge $14.30 on Apple's store (30% of 14.30 = 4.29).

      Granted, there is some non-zero cost to operating their own store, but there's also a non-zero cost to managing their app on Apple's store. Apple feels their service is worth the 30% charge, even though that results in wildly diff

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Whether or not Apple allows them to charge less on their own store than they do in the Apple App store (eg. if hosted on both) is yet another question.

        There is no "most favored nation" clause - developers are allowed to charge whatever they want on Apple's store and on third party stores.

        It's why the EU has several different app stores doing various things. There's an app store that's only having free apps and you can use in-app payments to get rid of ads and such. There's stores using a subscription model

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by unrtst ( 777550 )

          Whether or not Apple allows them to charge less on their own store than they do in the Apple App store (eg. if hosted on both) is yet another question.

          There is no "most favored nation" clause - developers are allowed to charge whatever they want on Apple's store and on third party stores.

          You're referring to the existing EU setup for 3rd party app stores for Apple devices. How this shakes out for Japan may be quite different - we don't know yet.

          Chances are though, if your app is $10 in the Apple app store, would you really sell your app for $9 in the Epic game store?

          In this instance, you're looking at this from the perspective of an app owner that does not have their own app store. And yeah, there's less motivation to differentiate on price, but it's just as likely one may choose to sell for the same price on all the app stores, as you're noting, or to determine the price they need/want to make and mark it up on

    • It's not rocket science. They are going to do whatever they think is going to generate the most profit. Sometimes that's more sales due to lower cost sometimes it comes from lower sales and higher prices.

  • Good (Score:3)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @09:37PM (#64545235)

    It is high time we get a real market in that space.

  • Cool (Score:3)

    by kopecn ( 1962014 ) on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @10:06PM (#64545277)
    Now do sony

  • My concern about 3rd party stores (Score:3)

    by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 ) on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @11:58PM (#64545423)

    I suspect it is a matter of time until companies hosting their own apps will load them down with data raping or other evil bits.

    "If you want to do business with us, we'll give you 5% for using the app from our store (while we spy on you)".

    Also, removing Google/Apple from the equation means no one is checking apps for trash or removing apps that are evil which slip through screening. There is no screening.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by narcc ( 412956 )

      There is no screening.

      We managed to survive without Apple and Google's half-assed security theater for years. We'll manage again. We might even remember why we use websites on computers instead of countless stupid apps.

      • You mean survive in the sense of the PC world being flooded with virii and the anti-virus/malware industry being worth a zillion dollars annually?

        No thanks.

        Why do you think third party app stores are in any way related to web sites coming back or will cause that to happen?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by narcc ( 412956 )

          I guess some people prefer being locked-up and abused... I'll never understand it.

          • Ok so no answer. Thanks for clarifying.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by narcc ( 412956 )

              It's not my responsibility to explain my post to you. Try being less stupid.

              • No it is not your responsibility. However you are on a social media site that is based on the concept of users engaging in discussion with other. Another user made a post. You derided that post. The user questioned your derision. You failed to respond intelligently. You were called out again. You failed again to respond intelligently. You have been called out again.

                We're done here. Next time either remain quiet if you have nothing intelligent to say or take the L if you can't explain yourself inte

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by unrtst ( 777550 )

          (not the GP, but I think I got their point...)

          Why do you think third party app stores are in any way related to web sites coming back or will cause that to happen?

          This thread kicked off talking about it being "... a matter of time until companies (start hosting) their own apps ...".
          If there is a significant increase in the number of app stores (many companies hosting their own, as that implied), then downloading the app for a website by going to the website will be more obviously redundant. Just use the mobile friendly version of the site and some bookmarks. For many apps, there's no real difference. Why do we need apps f

  • I'm pretty sure 3rd party app stores on Android have been a thing for many, many years. In fact, my current phone has 2 pre installed. Samsung, and Google. Hell, just for shits and giggles, Android even let's you install apps downloaded from the web or shares by email.

    And my understanding is Apple just got forced to do the same. So isn't Japan's law redundant now ?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And my understanding is Apple just got forced to do the same. So isn't Japan's law redundant now ?

      Apple got forced to allow sideloading in the EU only. And they are working hard on making this feature unavailable anywhere else.

    • No it is not redundant, because particularly Apple is geo fencing those rules to Europe.
      Of course they will get a harsh awakening, when a bunsh of people working overseas and an angry court wakes them up with ice buckets.

    • And my understanding is Apple just got forced to do the same. So isn't Japan's law redundant now ?

      Not really: Apple already made clear that their compliance with EU laws will not make any difference to iOS devices outside of EU: outside EU, users will remain locked-in.

      I guess that's why Japan passed this legislation: Once enactes, Japanese users will enjoy that extra freedom which EU governments secured for their users.

  • Because apps on third party stores will most likely not have any Apple signing, I would be surprised if Apple didn't implement some form of internal fencing that would only allow apps signed for specific sensitive data to have access to that data. I'm curious about how detailed the new laws are, do they just require the ability to install apps from third party app stores or do they specifically state that such apps must be able to have the same functionality and access to the system?

  • It's not really going to help now that the stores themselves already have a dominant market share. They really have to break up the existing stores, or take them from Google and Apple and put them under control of other parties.

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