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IOS Apple

Alternative iOS App Stores Won't Work (For Long) Outside of the EU 51

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Alternative iOS app stores won't work (for long) outside of the EU. From a report: With iOS 17.4, iPhone users in the EU can now access third-party app marketplaces -- pending availability which is expected any day -- but extended overseas travel could change that, according to Apple.
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Alternative iOS App Stores Won't Work (For Long) Outside of the EU More

Alternative iOS App Stores Won't Work (For Long) Outside of the EU

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  • so the apps will not work offline but main store a (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @11:08AM (#64294458)

    so the apps will not work offline but main store apps do? well that sounds like an issue for the EU to come down hard on apple.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Yep, a few more Billions in fines will show them the error of their ways.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      so the apps will not work offline but main store apps do? well that sounds like an issue for the EU to come down hard on apple.

      No, the apps you download from the stores will work fine outside the EU.

      The app STORES will not work (for long) outside the EU. This makes sense as alternative app stores is an EU thing, and just like we don't let China dictate the apps we see in the US, the DMA is an EU law.

      Apps that were downloaded from those stores rely on the app stores for updates, so the apps may no longer get

    • If you bought an app, you bought the app. The app stores will eventually not work (and not just because you visit Disneyeorld in Florida), but there is no reason and no excuse for apple to stop the app.

  • people do travel, so either they allow EU people outside EU to still access the store (probably controlling the account country or device sell country), or they will allow anyone to do that via a vpn in europe... either way, sooner or later other countries will follow

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Indeed. This is just Apple trying to be as unhelpful as possible. For devices sold in the EU and with at least one European SIM card, they basically have no choice. Things get more murky when there is only a non-EU SIM in there. I take that is what "extended overseas travel" means.

      In the end, the artificial trade barriers and artificial scarcity that assholes like Apple (and many others) thrive on will fall.

      • Re:travel (Score:4, Insightful)

        by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @11:48AM (#64294602) Journal

        Things get more murky when there is only a non-EU SIM in there. I take that is what "extended overseas travel" means.

        Does it? EU citizen buys something under EU rules. I'm not convinced Apple is in the clear just because the person is not in the EU. Maybe they'd be in the clear if they could prove it was not an EU citizen who now owns it, but it sounds like they're bucking for another ruling against them from the EU.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Well, it does become less clear. And there is the thing that for the EU to push, a lot of citizens and residents have to be affected. "Extended overseas travel" will probably just be a small group. But we will see. If Apple continues to piss off the EU enough, the EU may just decide to look very closely at even less important violations.

          Apple is a really large, really important company. But they somehow seem to mistake the EU for a minor player. It is not. It can eat Apple for breakfast if it really wants t

          • Apple is a really large, really important company. But they somehow seem to mistake the EU for a minor player. It is not. It can eat Apple for breakfast if it really wants to. And it can demonstrate that if needed.

            Well, the EU can hit Apple for up to 34% of its revenue, and then Apple makes more money by just not doing business in the EU.
            34% is a lot.
            But it's not quite "its lunch".

            • Well, the EU can hit Apple for up to 34% of its revenue, and then Apple makes more money by just not doing business in the EU

              Or Apple knuckle under, don't get fined and continue selling iPhones, apps store apps and so on and still make tons of money.

              • Of course that's the reasonable alternative. But the comment I replied to wasn't about this. This was about the assertion that the EU could crumple Apple. Which is absurd.

                Should the showdown reach its logical conclusion, Apple pulls out of Europe, is still the richest company on the planet, and many millions of EU customers force their politicians to repeal the law.
          • At some point it isnâ(TM)t travel anymore. Usually around three months.
        • EU jurisdiction exceeding EU borders? How very American of you ;)

          • It's about an iPhone purchased in the EU by an EU citizen. Apple don't get to brick or just because someone takes it out of the EU, that is breaking the terms of sale for something sold in the EU.

            • If the device stayed disabled once you were still in EU jurisdiction, you'd have a point.
              However, Apple disabling a device outside of EU jurisdiction is not subject to EU jurisdiction, unless of course they're playing by American rules.

              It's ok, you can admit it.

              • Apple disabling a device outside of EU jurisdiction is not subject to EU jurisdiction, unless of course they're playing by American rules.

                This smells like bullshit to me.

                If you sell something in jurisdiction, the entity you have in that jurisdiction remains bound by the laws governing sale in that jurisdiction, whether or not the sold thing is taken abroad.

                The EU are not exercising any rules outside the EU. If Apple have no EU entity, then the EU won't be involved. However they are absolutely allowed to reg

                • If you sell something in jurisdiction, the entity you have in that jurisdiction remains bound by the laws governing sale in that jurisdiction, whether or not the sold thing is taken abroad.

                  That's patently absurd. I can't imagine how you can even justifiably come to that conclusion.

                  The EU are not exercising any rules outside the EU.

                  They're not. You're saying they should. Which is laughable.

                  If Apple have no EU entity, then the EU won't be involved.

                  As I said, that's American Rules ;)

                  However they are absolutely allowed to regulate things sold in Europe which is what they are doing.

                  And used in Europe.
                  They cannot regulate the use of a thing outside of their jurisdiction.

                  If your logic hold, any company would be able to remotely brick a device as soon as it crossed a border and the purchaser would have no comeback because that would be outside the original country's jurisdiction.

                  Bullshit. You've created a strawman.
                  Bricking the device implies permanence.
                  A company would absolutely be free (and do) disable the use of a device in a certain country.
                  As long as the device works again as advertised in the advertise

                  • They cannot regulate the use of a thing outside of their jurisdiction.

                    They're not regulating the use of it outside their jurisdiction. The user of the phone is free to use the phone however they wish, and if they do something that might be illegal in an EU country while abroad then the EU won't stop them.

                    What they are doing is they are regulating Apple form reneging on the terms of sale on a sale made within their jurisdiction.

                    Bricking the device implies permanence.

                    So? You re claiming that the EU have no

      • If your device doesn't have an EU sim in it then how are they supposed to know it's an EU device?

        The newer phones are multi sim capable for the last several years so why would an EU phone not have an EU sim in it?

        Should any phone that has ever had an EU sim be permanently flagged as an EU phone, for example a vacationer from elsewhere who picked up a local sim temporarily?

        • The newer phones are multi sim capable for the last several years so why would an EU phone not have an EU sim in it?

          Knowing Apple they'll probably embed some specific piece of hardware that only goes in phones shipped to the EU and will use geolocation data, along with the presence of an EU SIM card, to validate whether or not the phone is being used within that region. If both conditions are true you get the third-party app stores, if only the EU SIM is true you'll still get it because travel but I'm betting after a while you'll start getting nagged to swap out to a non-EU SIM for "security" reasons after which they'll

        • If your device doesn't have an EU sim in it then how are they supposed to know it's an EU device?

          Every phone has a unique ID, such as the IMEI. They know it's a European phone. They'll also know if the user has an EU account which they log in as.

          Should any phone that has ever had an EU sim be permanently flagged as an EU phone, for example a vacationer from elsewhere who picked up a local sim temporarily?

          They're bucking for another smackdown if they think they can "solve" a problem entirely of their own mak

        • Should any phone that has ever had an EU sim be permanently flagged as an EU phone

          Even to this day, the baseband is built with a region specific configuration. That doesn't mean they'll fail to work elsewhere, but it does mean they'll work optimally in specific regions. IIRC Apple themselves keep 5 versions of every phone they make that are identical in every way except for the baseband. If you look on Wikipedia you'll see four of them, but there's also an unlisted 5th version that is sold only in the EU, UK and People's Republic of California that reports you to the police if you access

          • Marjorie Taylor Greene, the well-known Republican representative from... well, not the People's Republic of California, had this to say about kiwifarms,

            There should be no business or any kind of service where you can target your enemy. That's absolutely absurd and this is the type of lawlessness that Democrats want all over the country

            I get that you like making jokes aimed at your political opponents- but they really are funnier when they're not a wide miss.
            Our poor comrades in CA just can't win, can they?

          • Ah, thank you.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          If your device doesn't have an EU sim in it then how are they supposed to know it's an EU device?

          Is this a serious question? Have you ever heard of an IMEI? Obviously not. The SIM card is only about usage, not where it was sold. If there are only non-EU SIM cards in there, Apple could claim a device was effectively "exported" or some such legal trickery. They would still know it was sold in the EU.

          • Yes I have but someone else answered the question for real.

            There is no guarantee the IMEI belongs to a particular country at point of sale.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              The IMEI is _recorded_ when the device is shipped to a country for sale there and it is _recorded_ when the device is sold. Are you saying Apple does not have control over is supply-chain?

          • But this is all nonsense because a phone sold in the Eu can be sold to someone living outside the EU, and vice versa. And itâ(TM)s the person, not the device. So the correct way is: Use GPS to find the location, and if you leave or enter the EU for three months then disable or enable alternative app stores.

    • people do travel, so either they allow EU people outside EU to still access the store (probably controlling the account country or device sell country), or they will allow anyone to do that via a vpn in europe... either way, sooner or later other countries will follow

      So if EU legalized murder, and an EU citizen came to my country and committed a murder, would EU would expect my country to honor EU laws cuz it's an EU citizen that did the crime?

      Be careful how you answer that question.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by higuita ( 129722 )

        what if they are in the USA, use a VPN to kill someone in EU ? while they are outside the EU, the action was still legal under EU laws and no crime was committed in the USA

        see, i know how to play that game too :)

        jokes aside, of course EU can't enforce a laws in the USA and vice-versa (while there are many attempts to force that via trade agreements), but there are many laws that are still valid even if people travel, tax fraud isn't legal, even if you are living for some months in the some tax heaven. Apple

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sconeu ( 64226 )

      To be fair, while I think this is a dick move, by Apple, I never update my apps while traveling.

    • But who says about travel? EU laws usually care about EU residents. You can go on a holiday to the USA and stay an EU resident. You can go on a long holiday. Usually the USA doesnâ(TM)t let you in for more than 3 months unless you become a US resident. And thatâ(TM)s the point where you shouldnâ(TM)t be covered by EU law anymore.

      Same the other way round. Going to Europe on a holiday doesnâ(TM)t give you those rights. Only if you move there permanently.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Even if you become a resident of another country, some of your EU rights continue. For example, if you bought your phone in the EU, the EU based warranty is still valid even if you move overseas. The agreement made with the cloud backup provider when you bought it remains in force, including any data collection requests that you declined.

        Apple is on legally shaky ground here. For example, if you subscribed to something via an alternative app store, and the subscription broke because you had been outside the

  • Am I missing something here? (Score:4)

    by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @11:49AM (#64294612)

    A slashdot article that only links to another slashdot article... the linked article doesn't say what the summary says it does... how many hoops am I supposed to jump through before deciding whether or not I care?

  • Dear fanboys, Apple doesn't see you as a business partner. If anything, you're a nuisance standing between them and their money (currently temporarily residing in your pockets).

    • Dear fanboys, Apple doesn't see you as a business partner.

      100%.

      If anything, you're a nuisance standing between them and their money (currently temporarily residing in your pockets).

      As long as they keep making fucking great hardware, they're going to keep getting my money.
      I don't need to idolize them to justify my purchases. They make good shit. That's just a fact.
      Their business practices are total fucking trash, but they're hardly alone there.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tarlus ( 1000874 )

      s/Apple/Google/
      s/Apple/Microsoft/
      s/Apple/Facebook/
      s/Apple/Amazon/

  • According to Apple : https://support.apple.com/en-g... [apple.com]

    Availability in the European Union

    To reflect the Digital Markets Act's changes, users in the European Union are able to install alternative app marketplaces and install apps offered through alternative app marketplaces in iOS 17.4 or later. The country or region of your Apple ID must be set to one of the countries or regions of the European Union, and you must be physically located in the European Union.

    Your device eligibility for alternative app marketp

  • Did someone's Slashdot comment accidentally get posted to the front page? What is this one liner not linked to any external source.

  • If anyone makes a browser that looks at the text and figures out when a website is messing up utf8 and fixes it, that would make me switch. None of slashdotâ(TM)s nonsense. âoeNo rubbish characters anymoreâ. âoe£ signs and â and Â¥â.

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