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Cloud Apple

Propose Class Action Alleges Apple's Cloud Storage is an 'Illegal Monopoly' (thehill.com) 169

Posted by EditorDavid from the do-not-pass-Go dept.
"Apple faces a proposed class action lawsuit alleging the company holds an illegal monopoly over digital storage for its customers," reports the Hill: The suit, filed Friday, claims "surgical" restraints prevent customers from effectively using any service except its iCloud storage system. iCloud is the only service that can host certain data from the company's phones, tablets and computers, including application data and device settings. Plaintiffs allege the practice has "unlawfully 'tied'" the devices and iCloud together... "As a result of this restraint, would-be cloud competitors are unable to offer Apple's device holders a full-service cloud-storage solution, or even a pale comparison."
The suit argues that there are "no technological or security justifications for this limitation on consumer choice," according to PC Magazine.

The class action's web site is arguing that "Consumers may have paid higher prices than they allegedly would have in a competitive market."
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Propose Class Action Alleges Apple's Cloud Storage is an 'Illegal Monopoly' More

Propose Class Action Alleges Apple's Cloud Storage is an 'Illegal Monopoly'

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  • Interesting question in 2024: (Score:3)

    by ihadafivedigituid ( 8391795 ) on Sunday March 03, 2024 @10:40PM (#64287320)
    Where does the operating system end and where does the cloud service begin?

  • expensive (Score:5, Informative)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Sunday March 03, 2024 @10:49PM (#64287330)
    Not sure about illegal monopoly, but fuck me it is expensive. My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by jhoegl ( 638955 )
      "Family buys into walled garden only to find the walls porous and the land expensively infertile. news at 11"

      It is a monopoly in that all services on their platform are controlled by Apple, who also takes a cut. If you buy into a glass house for the glass but dont realize the costs behind heating and cooling the glass, you are the sucker.
      • When your kids decide for you, you have been bullied. I have felt that many times. I can't chat with them ( hate for the Mr Green Dot), I cant share videos on their platform, and I am the bad guy, right? And to think we bought them the AAPL products when they were young. Probably still paying for some of them!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Those of us with families often can't force our loved ones to not buy an iPhone. I wouldn't mind so much, except that Apple has made it impossible to effectively use other cloud services. iCloud gets a free pass to access all data and run in the background to do long uploads. Everything else is just a normal app, with limited access to data and killed off if you don't keep it open with the screen on while uploading.

        I already pay for cloud storage and have a load of it free from Google, but it can't be used

    • Re:expensive (Score:4, Informative)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday March 03, 2024 @11:23PM (#64287376)

      Tell your spouse to install Dropbox. It works fine on a Mac.

      Use Dropbox for most stuff she wants to auto-backup to the cloud, and iCloud only for Mac specific stuff like messages. The free iCloud tier will be good enough.

      Another advantage is that Dropbox makes it easy to share files with Windows and Linux users, while iCloud does not.

    • Not sure about illegal monopoly, but fuck me it is expensive. My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

      How much storage?

      • she has to get the 2TB plan as it is the smallest plan that can cover her 512GB iPhone. basically extra $180AUD a year for backups without having to go through the hoops of manually moving stuff for backups.

        • Re:expensive (Score:5, Informative)

          by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 ) on Monday March 04, 2024 @12:38AM (#64287466)

          No, she doesn't [apple.com]. iCloud backs up nowhere near the full 512GB. It backs up all of your settings and any data that's not already synced to iCloud. But it skips the apps, music, movies, mail, and a few others. Those are re-downloaded from their original sources after the backup restoration is "complete." It even re-populates the app grid and your folders. But they're all greyed-out until they redownload; but not from your iCloud backup, but from the App Store. My (256GB, 212 used) iPhone's most recent backup is 3.9GB.

          So you might want to look at the actual sizes of those backups. They'll be smaller then you expect and you should be able to scale down your iCloud Drive.

          • iCloud Photos is the biggest user of my storage. This uses space without being part of the backup. Thatâ(TM)s quite inconvenient to move to another storage system.

          • well she maxes out her storage as constantly needs to delete. She was getting failed backups when on the 200gb plan and loads of issues from it being full. I know jack shit about Apple junk so I can only go by what we were advised which was she needed the 2tb plan. She takes huge amounts of photos for her hobbie/business. So can I safely tell her she can cancel all the icloud crap and get a proper cloud storage solution? or is this one of those crapple things where you still need both even if you go to a s
            • Here's what you can do if you know nothing about Apple junk: Ask someone who does. Find your nearest Apple Store, make an appointment at the genius bar, and let them figure it out.

              I know, you'd rather have no monopoly and pay the same or more to someone else who will be of no help to you whatsoever, but as much as it may surprise you, they actually have people in the stores who are paid to help customers and who know how to do it.

              For example, years ago O2 messed up my email account. They had no idea h

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

            iCloud backs up nowhere near the full 512GB. It backs up all of your settings and any data that's not already synced to iCloud.

            And that's the trick they use. An iCloud backup tends to be under 5GB (barely), which is enough to fill the free tier. But it means you can't use iCloud for literally anything else, and it also doesn't include things like photos that are what people really want to back up.

            Anything that's "stored on iCloud" is not in the phone backup. That includes photos, documents, game saves, and all sorts of information that people really want to keep backed up. It's also what prevents you from using any other cloud serv

        • Fair enough. She values her convenience of having all her files and not having to manually backup on her PC/Mac more than AUD$180. I personally would just spend few seconds every few weeks or months manually backing up and pocket the AUD$180.

        • she has to get the 2TB plan as it is the smallest plan that can cover her 512GB iPhone. basically extra $180AUD a year for backups without having to go through the hoops of manually moving stuff for backups.

          $10/month for 2TB of cloud storage is hardly insane, plus she can family-share it with like 6 family members.
          Besides, it's the same monthly price for dropbox and google one

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Strider- ( 39683 )

          I've upgraded to the 50GB plan which is about $20 CAD/year, and that's plenty for my iPhone and iPad. And I take a lot of photos. I still have 31GB free.

        • Re: expensive (Score:2, Informative)

          by gnasher719 ( 869701 )
          God, are you stupid. Have a look in Settings how much iCloud storage is actually used. Iâ(TM)ll bet itâ(TM)s less than 50GB. .

    • What..... is she doing that requires that?

      I've never paid for icloud in my life? An I use an iphone and mac and have done so for 15 years.

      • What..... is she doing that requires that?

        I've never paid for icloud in my life? An I use an iphone and mac and have done so for 15 years.

        Where it's really good is backing up all your photos and videos. It's basically a big virtual drive so you never run out of space. It pages out stuff to create space as needed, and automatically brings them back when you click on them

        • It pages out stuff to create space as needed, and automatically brings them back when you click on them

          That part is great. But on both Android and iPhone, I don't believe you can tell either cloud storage service to transfer any photos to your next new phone except individually. So your next phone only has photos taken after the purchase date of the new phone. When offline or if something happens to the cloud service, you don't even have a second copy safely on your device.

    • Not sure about illegal monopoly, but fuck me it is expensive. My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

      How much is "insane" exactly?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      At first, I thought it was something frivolous, but there's something there.

      I mean, you can use Amazon Photos to back up your photos and such (which probably take up the most space on the device), and Apps don't need backing up, so it's really just app data that gets backed up. But even that can consume a lot of data, and it's only 5GB in total, not per device.

      So there's probably something there in that you really don't have any option other than to use iCloud to back up y our phone to the cloud.

      I mean, you

    • 3$ a month is "expensive"?

      • 3$ a month is "expensive"?

        First, there's a huge difference between US$, Can$ and Aus$. Second, you get 5GB free, 50GB for 0.99, 200GB for 2.99, and 2TB for 7.99 which you can share with all the devices in your family (iPhones, iPads and Macs) for six family members. Without ever having to enter a password (that's your Apple ID). Now maybe another tier for 500Gb and 5TB would be nice...

        And this lady somehow got convinced that she needed 2TB because 200GB is not enough for a 500GB iPhone. Most likely it is. And 7.99 for 2TB is not e

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      I avoid the clouds.

    • My monthly iCloud bill is 99p per month. Granddaughter paid 7.99. I asked her what she needed 2 TB of storage for? She needed 20GB. Paid more because she thought it was the best. Now she pays 99p like me :-).

    • Not sure about illegal monopoly, but fuck me it is expensive. My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

      It's not the absolute cost that annoys me, it's the abusive pricing strategy. They make the cheaper tiers pathetically small and then you have to pay a crazy amount for way more storage than you actually need. It's the same with the pricing of the macs now - they make the cheapest tier have some stupidly small hard drive (my 2013 entry level MacBook pro has the same size SSD as today's one), but if you want to upgrade it they absolutely fleece you. It's put me off buying another mac, but I'm sure it works f

    • Isn't the first 50 GB free ? You can select what you want to, save to iCloud !
      • First 5GB is free. And anyone who buys an iPhone for 1000 dollars and then complains about 0.99 a month for 50GB online storage seriously needs their head examined.

    • It's $1 a month.

    • My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her 0device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

      From Apple's support page

      United States (USD)
      50GB: $0.99
      200GB: $2.99
      2TB: $9.99
      6TB: $29.99
      12TB: $59.99

      Dunno man, seems reasonable to me.

    • You don’t have to use icloud with Apple devices. I haven’t for years, but eventually had a business use for it. My wife still isn’t using icloud for her devices.

    • Not sure about illegal monopoly, but fuck me it is expensive. My wife uses iphone, the eyewatering price of her device was bad enough, the monthly iCloud bills are just insane.

      Well, let us know how your efforts to reduce the size of the bill goes. I think you are already sure but you are not ready to admit it.

  • I don't know whether they'll be able to get past the requirement that Apple have sufficient market power in at least one of the tied products; but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument that iCloud is tied to iDevices in a number of ways that typically aren't wholly without justification(eg. having iCloud be the only thing you can restore from reduces the complexity of the first-run restore option because it can just assume iCloud; rather than Apple having to define an interface that 3rd party rest

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Macs are able to backup to time machine, which already has a defined interface. No real reason phones couldn't do the same.

    • but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument that iCloud is tied to iDevices in a number of ways that typically aren't wholly without justification(eg. having iCloud be the only thing you can restore from reduces the complexity of the first-run restore option because it can just assume iCloud; rather than Apple having to define an interface that 3rd party restore providers would offer or add a pre-restore app install section so that the relevant 3rd party app could be installed to provide the restore interface(the way 3rd party apps can snap into the "Files" app); but which are...awfully convenient...given Apple's margins on both cloud storage and higher storage phone models.

      For a long time, users can backup iOS devices to a local computer whether it is a Mac or PC so I am not sure what you are talking about.

      It probably doesn't help(if Apple seeks to make some sort of "we do it for the security of the people!" argument) that iOS historically(and still does, though it is much de-emphasized) supported either unencrypted or encrypted backups

      Well that is a lie. [cnbc.com] It took me seconds to google that is not true. And that was for iCloud. I cannot find when local backups offered encryption but this user post from 2011 tells tells other users not to encrypt their backups [apple.com] because if they lose their password, they lose their backup.

      • I cannot find when local backups offered encryption but this user post from 2011 tells tells other users not to encrypt their backups [apple.com] because if they lose their password, they lose their backup.

        If you're talking about backing up a Mac to Time Machine, it's just a matter of checking a box and picking an encryption password.

        If you're talking about backing up iDevices locally, last time I did it you (again) just checked a box and picked a password.

        • No I was challenging the OP's point that "iOS historically(and still does, though it is much de-emphasized) supported either unencrypted or encrypted backups". I simply do not know exactly when iOS started local encrypted backups other than it was at least 2011. I know they started offering encrypting iCloud backups in 2022. I think that iOS could be locally backed up since the first iPhone. I am certain such a statement means he has never used an iOS device in his life or bothered to do a Google search.
        • And with Time Machine, you can buy any old spinning hard drive as long as it is big because you don't need the speed. Two if you are paranoid.
      • But that's not consolidated solution if you want to set up one backup system for every computer in your home. Most Open source backup systems have to just refuse to do apple. Then you need a specifically tailored system to do your MacBook because its "special".
        • Here's my "specifically tailored system" to backup three MacBooks and one iMac: Buy a big hard drive. Plug it into the iMac (because that is most likely to stay permanently where it is). Share the hard drive. On each of the four Macs, turn on Time Machine and choose the same backup drive.

          Because Time Machine stores old versions of your backups as long as it has enough storage, you may set a limit for storage used for each device, so that your video editing machine doesn't gobble up all the space. And mak

        • But that's not consolidated solution if you want to set up one backup system for every computer in your home.

          What are you talking about? Time Machine works across different Macs and can work with network drives. Set up or buy a NAS and hook it up to the local network. Dropbox works for Mac. GoogleDrive works for Mac

          Most Open source backup systems have to just refuse to do apple.

          Describe "most". Open source backup systems that work on Macs: BorgBackup, UrBackup, Syncthing, Duplicati, Bacula, BackupPC, zAmanda, rsync, Timeshift. So are you lying or did you not bother researching?

          . Then you need a specifically tailored system to do your MacBook because its "special".

          You mean like how you need "special" versions for Windows or BSD if the code was originally written f

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Backing up to a computer isn't a replacement for iCloud. Sync to cloud backup is automatic and continual.

        • Backing up to a computer isn't a replacement for iCloud. Sync to cloud backup is automatic and continual.

          When did cloud offerings like GoogleDrive, Microsoft OneDrive, and Dropbox stop working for Apple devices?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            They work but are second class. Can't back up everything, and can't do background data transfer indefinitely.

            • They work but are second class. Can't back up everything, and can't do background data transfer indefinitely.

              At this point it seems you are merely adding conditions to artificially ensure that iCloud. This is a No True Scotsman fallacy.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                Background data transfer is essential, otherwise your stuff doesn't back up automatically.

  • I'm able to connect my modern iPhone to my modern Mac, select "Back up all of your data on your iPhone to this Mac" and... back everything up, as often as I want, for absolutely no cost whatsoever. As much as I think it'd be great that we all got free wireless cloud backups of our phones, the fact that local backups remain available at functionally no cost really seems to impede the argument that there's some sort of illegal monopoly.

    • As much as I think it'd be great that we all got free wireless cloud backups of our phones, the fact that local backups remain available at functionally no cost really seems to impede the argument that there's some sort of illegal monopoly.

      I think you can use the first 15GB free on Google Drive and you can use Google Drive to backup certain iOS files like photos, calendar, and contacts. Not free if you exceed 15GB but it starts at $1.99 per for 100GB a month.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by 0xG ( 712423 )

      Well, duh. You solved the problem by buying another Apple device.

  • If I want to sell my product, and Walmart refuses to carry it, can I sue them for being a monopoly on what they sell at their own store?

    Because that sounds completely silly to me, and yet it's what I think of when these developers try to pull it with a digital store.

    • Sure, you can. Especially if Walmart is the only store that can legally sell your product, and if Walmart demands a royalty on any subscriptions required to use your product.

  • WHo's got stories about being bullied by GreenDot/BlueDot issues "Cant chat with you because we'd all suffer", or "you androider can't see my iCloud data" (even if you would pay AAPL for access from Android.
  • To me it appears the complaint is that there is no 3rd party online? backup service that can be used with Apple devices? For iOS there has always been local backup to a computer whether it is a Mac or PC or 3rd party software like iMazing or Google Drive. For computers there has always been Time Machine for local or network drives or a host of services like Dropbox. I am not sure what the lawsuit is about.

    • Yeah I don't understand either. Synology devices can behave as remote Time Machine storage devices without the end user having to do anything special. And I've personally used the third-party app Arq to back up (encrypted) my Mac's disk to a Backblaze storage endpoint.

      • Actually, any old hard drive connected to a Mac does that.
      • But why does it always have to be something that costs a lot of money that works with apple? What if i just want to use rsync? The one that came with macos gets permiision issues even if you run it as root, which ISN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

        • But why does it always have to be something that costs a lot of money that works with apple?

          2 TB on Amazon for 66 pound is the cheapest 2TB hard drive that I can find (and that is likely not a scam). 40 pound for 1 TB. Is that a lot of money to you?

  • ... softball speculation using words like perhaps, maybe, probably ...

    Buying a phone and services is a package deal. Consumers know what they are getting and, for competition, have many other choices.

    For me, it's like, "Your BBQ sauce is better than ours and yet you keep the recipe for yourself. We're filing a class action lawsuit."

    • To me I don't know exactly what the lawsuit is about as there are ways to backup iOS and Macs that does not require iCloud. Time Machine has been a feature for 15 years now on the Mac. All a consumer needs is a local or network drive. Services like Dropbox also works perfectly fine on a Mac. iOS have had local backups since the beginning.
      • But whatever that solution is, you can't get your windows/Linux systems to work with the same thing. People are looking to not have to treat the mac special

        • But whatever that solution is, you can't get your windows/Linux systems to work with the same thing. People are looking to not have to treat the mac special

          What are you talking about? Services like Dropbox work the same.

  • ...I use google photo on iphone and every picture taken get automatically updated to the google cloud.
  • You can backup your phone, everything on it, to any drive you have attached to a desktop/laptop/server by connected your phone to your computer first. What these companies want it is for Apple to let people back up their phones to their companies servers directly from their phones so they can more easily profit. While true it probably would force Apple to lower iCloud storage price to better compete. So from a condute prospective the lawsuite might have a chance. However, no one is required to use an Apple

    • Except Apple doesn't really compete on price.

    • What these companies want it is for Apple to let people back up their phones to their companies servers directly from their phones so they can more easily profit.

      iMazing has existed since 2008 [wikipedia.org]. Seriously, a simple Google search for me showed Cloud backups for iPhone. [cloudwards.net] Other companies are already doing that so I do not understand is what exactly is the complaint.

      While true it probably would force Apple to lower iCloud storage price to better compete

      iCloud is $0.99 for 50GB and $2.99 for 200GB. GoogleDrive is $1.99 for 100GB. iDrive is $2.95 for 100GB. Acronis is way more expensive at the low end but cheaper at the high end. BigMind is more expensive overall but their pricing is based on minimum of 10 users. Per user it is about the same as the others. J

  • Nobody requires you to buy an Apple product! If you don't like its ecosystem, go buy something else!!!

    Stop trying to fuck it up for the rest of us!!!!!!!

    God damned fucking assholes!!!!!

    Thanks.

  • ... Sure, I could easily use Apple's cloud offering, but instead, for work we use dropbox and at home I use NextCloud. Nothing about my Apple equipment makes using those difficult/impossible, or even annoying!
  • and OneDrive is just over here uploading your entire profile without your permission the second you log into Windows 11 unless you basically hack it with shift-F10, oobe/bypassnro or whatever

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