Spotify, Epic Games, and Others Argue Apple's App Store Changes Do Not Comply With DMA (macrumors.com) 47
An anonymous reader quotes a report from MacRumors: Spotify, Epic Games, Deezer, Paddle, and several other developers and EU associations today sent a joint letter to the European Commission to complain about Apple's "proposed scheme for compliance" with the Digital Markets Act (DMA). The 34 companies and associations do not believe Apple's plans "meet the law's requirements." Apple's changes "disregard both the spirit and letter of the law" and if left unchanged, will "make a mockery of the DMA," according to the letter. Several specific components of Apple's plan are highlighted, including the Core Technology Fee, the Notarization process, and the terms that developers must accept:
- Apple's requirement to stay with the current App Store terms or opt in to new terms provides developers with "an unworkable choice" that adds complexity and confusion. The letter suggests that neither option is DMA compliant and would "consolidate Apple's stronghold over digital markets."
- The Core Technology Fee and transaction fees will hamper competition and will prevent developers from agreeing to the "unjust terms."
- Apple is using "unfounded privacy and security concerns" to limit user choice. The "scare screens" that Apple plans to show users will "mislead and degrade the user experience."
- Apple is not allowing sideloading, and it is making the installation and use of new app stores "difficult, risky and financially unattractive for developers."
The companies and associations are urging the European Union to take "swift, timely and decisive action against Apple." The way the European Commission responds to Apple's proposal "will serve as a litmus test of the DMA and whether it can deliver for Europe's citizens and economy." Further reading: Apple Backtracks on Removing EU Home Screen Web Apps in iOS 17.4
- Apple's requirement to stay with the current App Store terms or opt in to new terms provides developers with "an unworkable choice" that adds complexity and confusion. The letter suggests that neither option is DMA compliant and would "consolidate Apple's stronghold over digital markets."
- The Core Technology Fee and transaction fees will hamper competition and will prevent developers from agreeing to the "unjust terms."
- Apple is using "unfounded privacy and security concerns" to limit user choice. The "scare screens" that Apple plans to show users will "mislead and degrade the user experience."
- Apple is not allowing sideloading, and it is making the installation and use of new app stores "difficult, risky and financially unattractive for developers."
The companies and associations are urging the European Union to take "swift, timely and decisive action against Apple." The way the European Commission responds to Apple's proposal "will serve as a litmus test of the DMA and whether it can deliver for Europe's citizens and economy." Further reading: Apple Backtracks on Removing EU Home Screen Web Apps in iOS 17.4
Re:Live by the rules, die by the rules (Score:5, Insightful)
Epic, is still just butthurt that they can't completely freeload off of Apple's platform. Remember
You know what I remember? When Slashdotters were in favor of Open Systems. When they supported Open Source, Free Software, and Open Standards over proprietary, closed systems with unnecessary restrictions on user freedom. When they rejected logically fallacious arguments about security versus freedom more often than not. When they held the belief that when they purchased hardware, it became theirs, and they had the right to do with it what they want.
You believe that's Apple's computer, but it's yours. You paid for it. You own it. But I guess you believe that in the future, you will own nothing, and you will like it? Because that's how you're behaving in the present.
Meanwhile, I'd be *shocked* if Apple isn't precisely following the letter every single one of the DMA's requirements.
First time, huh?
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Epic claims to want a free and open digital market. The GP claims they are being hypocritical in not providing one, and explicitly asked Epic to put their money where their mouth is. That seems to be advocating for the kind of Open System you said Slashdotters used to support.
And in particular, I think you invented the belief here:
You believe that's Apple's computer, but it's yours.
Re:Live by the rules, die by the rules (Score:5, Insightful)
That Epic might be hypocrite doe no invalidate the point about Apple. Also Epic's opening of their platform (or lack thereof) is subject to the same laws and will fall under the same level of regulatory scrutiny the day the watchdog turns to listing the "gatekeepers" of the gaming market. For now, Apple. The GP says Epic wants to do "freeloading". Of course they want, "Freeloading" (sidedloading) has been the normal way of operating computers for decades. We can "freeload" on windows, Android, Linux devices, even on desktop/laptop MacOS apparently. There is no good reason to remove that from us on iOS. "It's for security" is Apple's equivalent of "think of the children".
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There is no good reason to remove [sideloading] from us on iOS.
You can't remove something that was never there to begin with.
The lack of sideloading has been a literal selling point for IOS from its very beginning.
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The lack of sideloading has been a literal selling point for IOS from its very beginning.
Yes, and Apple's been lying about it since the very beginning. They claim that permitting it will compromise security for all users. This is a blatant and obvious lie.
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The lack of sideloading has been a literal selling point for IOS from its very beginning.
Yes, and Apple's been lying about it since the very beginning. They claim that permitting it will compromise security for all users. This is a blatant and obvious lie.
Millions of Android Malware Victims would beg to differ.
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There are dumb Android users, too. It's easy to not get infected with malware through sideloading, just don't sideload.
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You can't remove something that was never there to begin with.
Oh come on. It was removed from us (the public), in the sense that the restriction (onto the public) was introduced with iOS, it did not exist before iOS.
The lack of sideloading has been a literal selling point for IOS from its very beginning.
Please show evidence of that. As far as I can remember, advertisements were not about absence of sideloading. The people I know purchased early iPhones were did not usually mention that they purchased it because of the added value of the absence of sideloading.
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Oh come on. It was removed from us (the public), in the sense that the restriction (onto the public) was introduced with iOS, it did not exist before iOS.
Apple is certainly leading the charge in the removal of freedoms we used to take for granted. Good on the EU trying to stamp it out before it spreads.
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Apple is certainly leading the charge in the removal of freedoms we used to take for granted. Good on the EU trying to stamp it out before it spreads.
Bzzt, wrong. It's not Apple or whomever removing those freedoms; it's your domestic legislatures (including the US every EU member state) who made breaking digital locks into a felony.
If the EU wants to really shake things up, they can repeal those laws; that will do _far_ more good for the overall market than the DMA's utterly naive "it'll be the same as before, only more open with no negative repercussions whatsoever" fantasy. Apple's to-the-letter malicious compliance is proof of that.
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It's not Apple or whomever removing those freedoms; it's your domestic legislatures (including the US every EU member state) who made breaking digital locks into a felony.
I've owned a jailbroken iPhone, and it is not the US or the EU (or Canada where I live) that made it necessary to do that. Nobody is forcing Apple to use those digital locks, though I agree they should not exist and I'm totally fine with breaking them myself.
Apple's to-the-letter malicious compliance is proof of that.
Just need to beat them harder and wipe that smug grin off their face.
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Sideloading and freeloading are two very different things. You might sound somewhat coherent if you learned the difference, but I can make no guarantees.
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I took a shortcut. Freeloading can be defined as external companies reaching Apple's captive customers without paying a share of income. I can see two implementations referred as freeloading, one is asking Apple to reduce or eliminate their charge (which we can't, it's free market), another is to ask Apple to allow competing software repositories / app stores. The competing app store solution, which I called sideloading, is what required by the EU regulation, and what Epic and co. are asking for explicitly
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You believe that's Apple's computer, but it's yours.
That has _never_ been true; From day one, all iOS devices have always been a closed ecosystem under Apple's exclusive control; backstopped by laws (eg DMCA s1201, enacted *nine years* before the first iPhone was released) that make attempting to hack your "own" devices a literal felony. Apple has explicitly advertised this as a *feature*; literally everyone who ever chose to develop an iOS application (including Epic!) had to explicitly agree to these terms as well.
Apple didn't pull an enshittified bait-an
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My five-digit UID should answer that question for you.
It does not. There are plenty of people with lower UIDs than I have that don't appear to have any familiarity with the things they talk about. My first UID was five digit, I don't even remember the username and definitely don't have access to the email account used, whatever it was.
Apple didn't pull an enshittified bait-and-switch here
Their terms for iOS devices have always been shit. The enshittification started on day 0.
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> Their terms for iOS devices have always been shit. The enshittification started on day 0.
I think it was a bit earlier than that. Lisa, is that you?
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I never used the Lisa OS so I can't speak to that. Well, I did use it for a few seconds, then I loaded Mac OS on the machine and turned it into an XL.
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I support free and open standards and platforms, but I also oppose laws that micromanage tech products. I don't think the proper way to oppose proprietary systems is to legislate them out of existence–in fact, I think that there are many instances where proprietary systems make sense.
I'm all for governments supporting open platforms, but not in the way the DMA does it. Governments should support open platforms by mandating those requirements for all government devices. Schools should not be purchasing
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When Slashdotters were in favor of Open Systems.
To be clear about your point: Slashdot has *NEVER* been in favour of Open Systems when the people championing them were closed, monopolistic pieces of shit mega corps abusing the idea of "openness" to get their way and increase their market share. Yes the messenger here does matter. Apple are a piece of shit, Epic are a piece of shit. Just because the latter is in favour of openness today, about this topic, in this debate, doesn't give them a free pass on Slashdot.
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Slashdot has *NEVER* been in favour of Open Systems when the people championing them were closed, monopolistic pieces of shit mega corps abusing the idea of "openness" to get their way and increase their market share.
It doesn't matter why they argue for it. They will become subject to the same rules they are asking for, and what they are asking for is ultimately to everyone's benefit. Nobody should be forced to carry anyone's apps in their store, but users should be free to run any software they want. Conclusion, sideloading is good for everyone except those who would trap their customers in a walled garden with no doors — only at best with gates. ;)
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You believe that's Apple's computer,
Of course they do. They've been trained that way by the industry for decades now. Just like they've been trained to completely disregard their own device safety online and off, and loudly complain in favor of their Master's position whenever their Master is threatened. That thing is their leash. Of course they don't believe that have control over it, they obey it.
When Slashdotters were in favor of Open Systems. When they supported Open Source, Free Software, and Open Standards over proprietary, closed systems with unnecessary restrictions on user freedom. When they rejected logically fallacious arguments about security versus freedom more often than not. When they held the belief that when they purchased hardware, it became theirs, and they had the right to do with it what they want.
Unfortunately, the devil known as convenience and arrogance that has reigned for decades has created a generation of people that view those prin
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And what has it got us?
A world where malware is common, ra
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https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Malware_for_iOS
Here is a small list/review. Being fully closed didn't make security better. It made it arguably worse because people like you claimed it was perfect and no one should be careful. And when malware did show, everyone went full CPP in attempts to hide the truth to pretend nothing is wrong, and that the consequences
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And we had jailbroken iPhone worms as well - it spread looking for jailbroken iPhones and infected them because users were following scripts to get free pirated apps that left them using default passwords.
What always makes me wonder, there are all these people not trusting the government one bit, but then some fly to Turkey and have god knows what (and she probably doesn't know) injected into their lips and arses to look like a Kardashian, and others use jailbreaks on their iPhone.
I thought if I were the NSA or CIA or GCHQ, and I wanted access to many iPhones, I'd go straight to one of those jailbreakers and make them an offer they cannot refuse.
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You believe that's Apple's computer, but it's yours. You paid for it. You own it.
Not quite Apple owns the payment processing system and if you want to use it you will need to pay a fee so they can maintain and keep it secure.
Now 2 examples of large companies where I am McDonald's and Bunnings (hardware store) Both have apps which allow purchase through the app.
McDonald's appears to use apple pay therefore apple keeps track of the CC details and as a result can switch between cards stored in the wallet
Bunnings doesn't use apple pay https://bunnings.knoji.com/que... [knoji.com] but stores your CC
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And storing credit card numbers will get your license removed very quickly. Bunnings' (don't know who they are, don't care) will have signed a contract with the credit card co
DMA (Score:1)
Direct memory access ?
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"proposed scheme for compliance" with the Digital Markets Act (DMA)
I know that undefined acronyms have slipped through before, but this one is right there early in the summary.
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No, Europe's Digital Markets Act [europa.eu], which is antitrust legislation aimed at computer/digital platforms and their gatekeepers.
Imagine if Microsoft had tried the same thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine you could only buy your Windows applications from Microsoft. That you couldn't install other applications from other places, for "security" purposes. And then when regulators finally did something about it, Microsoft would have the gall to say we're going to charge a "technology" fee to put your application on the computers people already PAID for! What a complete and total joke. That Apple is allowed to do this, and make these ridiculous claims, while having another platform (OSX) that doesn't, shows you how fucked up the corporatocracy really is.
Re: Imagine if Microsoft had tried the same thing (Score:2)
That is probably coming.
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Microsoft already tried this, with the Windows Store in Windows 8. It flopped.
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Microsoft already tried this, with the Windows Store in Windows 8. It flopped.
Congratulations, you've discovered his point.
Because subtly is not your strong suit, the ensuing question from that is "If we wouldn't put up with it from Microsoft, why does Apple get a free pass"?
My answer to that question is that they shouldn't.
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You assume a lot about me that you don't know! But whatever, I agree with your points.
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App signing is kind of messed up in the first place. It's not the OS job to run hard encryption and lock out computer use. People downloading and installing software off the internet should be the ones checking bits with CRC and hash functions etc not the OS as heavy weight bloated and slow jack bootery on every execution of a piece of code. Frankly, there's little reason in most cases not to just compile everything locally anyways.
Unix had it right in the beginning. Just be careful who is allowed to se
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Apple is working toward this on the desktop. Try to run unsigned software on macOS. They make it more and more complicated. If nobody forbids it, you won't be able to run software that wasn't signed by apple on your mac in ten years.
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Apple is working toward this on the desktop. Try to run unsigned software on macOS. They make it more and more complicated. If nobody forbids it, you won't be able to run software that wasn't signed by apple on your mac in ten years.
You Haters have been Predicting this for nearly as long as you have been Predicting Apple's Demise.
Just give it a rest, willya?
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That Apple is allowed to do this, and make these ridiculous claims, while having another platform (OSX) that doesn't, shows you how fucked up the corporatocracy really is.
You've put the cart before the horse there mate. Literally no one has said Apple is allowed to do this. In fact the EU has launched a direct investigation into this practice already and I doubt they will give it the thumbs up.
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Spotify: I demand everything I want for free! (Score:1)
Wah wah wah EU gimme gimme gimme!
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all these companies (Score:1)
When they joined, they agreed to terms (Score:2)
What Apple should do (Score:2)