EU to Fine Apple $500M+ for Stifling Music Competitors Like Spotify (theverge.com) 117
"Apple will reportedly have to pay around €500 million (about $539 million USD) in the EU," reports the Verge, "for stifling competition against Apple Music on the iPhone.
Financial Times reported this morning that the fine comes after regulators in Brussels, Belgium investigated a Spotify complaint that Apple prevented apps from telling users about cheaper alternatives to Apple's music service.... The EU whittled its objections down to oppose Apple's refusal to let developers even link out to their own subscription sign-ups within their apps — a policy that Apple changed in 2022 following regulatory pressure in Japan.
$500 million may sound like a lot, but a much bigger fine of close to $40 billion (or 10 percent of Apple's annual global turnover) was on the table when the EU updated its objections last year. Apple was charged over a billion dollars in 2020, but French authorities dropped that to about $366 million after the company appealed.
The Verge cites an Apple spokesperson who said a year ago that the EU case "has no merit."
Reuters that the EU's fine "is expected to be announced early next month, the Financial Times said."
More from Politico The fine would be the EU's first ever against Apple and is expected to be announced early next month, according to the FT report. It is the result of a European Commission antitrust probe into whether Apple's "anti-steering" requirements breach the bloc's abuse of dominance rules, harming music consumers "who may end up paying more" for apps... The Commission will rule that Apple's actions are illegal and against EU competition rules, according to the report.
"The EU executive will ban Apple's practice of barring music services from letting users know of cheaper alternatives outside the App Store, according to the newspaper."
$500 million may sound like a lot, but a much bigger fine of close to $40 billion (or 10 percent of Apple's annual global turnover) was on the table when the EU updated its objections last year. Apple was charged over a billion dollars in 2020, but French authorities dropped that to about $366 million after the company appealed.
The Verge cites an Apple spokesperson who said a year ago that the EU case "has no merit."
Reuters that the EU's fine "is expected to be announced early next month, the Financial Times said."
More from Politico The fine would be the EU's first ever against Apple and is expected to be announced early next month, according to the FT report. It is the result of a European Commission antitrust probe into whether Apple's "anti-steering" requirements breach the bloc's abuse of dominance rules, harming music consumers "who may end up paying more" for apps... The Commission will rule that Apple's actions are illegal and against EU competition rules, according to the report.
"The EU executive will ban Apple's practice of barring music services from letting users know of cheaper alternatives outside the App Store, according to the newspaper."
Boo hoo (Score:3)
Wake me up when they are all fined for stifling musicians.
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There is some movement in that direction "Music streaming platforms must pay artists more, says EU" https://www.theverge.com/2024/... [theverge.com]
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Huh? Musicians? What have they got to do with that podcasting platform? /s
No merit? (Score:2)
If the EU says it has merit, then it has merit.
Or you can fuck off out the EU.
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Unelected bureaucrats are always right!!
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How's brexit working out?
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I hear it's shit. Relevance?
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Relevance?
Largest currently running experiment with some transparency.
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I heard Dexit and Nexit is next.
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Cry me a river.
You're saying it as if "the bureaucrats" are all-powerful and the decision was handed down to Apple without an opportunity to appeal, ruzzia or chinar-style.
The reality is quite the opposite, as you can see even from the TFS, the fine is lower than what "the bureaucrats" asked for, because Apple managed to shave off some of it in court.
Also, there is nothing wrong with having "unelected bureaucrats" in positions within an administration that are not political, but professional.
So, no, "bureau
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Wow, I was saying a LOT! LOL
Actually, I wasn't speaking to this particular case at all (I actually like the ruling a lot-anything to stick it to Apple, right?), just the idea that unelected bureaucracies in general are always right.
It's weird such a response inspires such vitriol.
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Vitriol? Come on, I just pointed out that you should worry less, as your generic statement doesn't apply to the situation we have on hand.
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I think the issue is, well, you're having Spotify, an EU company complaining about Apple Music, an American company.
The other problem is, Spotify is the #1 music streaming company in the world, Apple Music may be #2, but the problem still remains - Spotify has remained #1 the whole time they were complaining - so is it really unf
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so is it really unfair competition
Yes.
Re: No merit? (Score:1)
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Apple's iPhone isn't a monopoly.
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When I make custom parts for Ferraris then sure Ferrari is a monopoly for my niche business.
So what?
iPhone is not a monopoly for smart phones and absolutely nothing forces a develop to build apps for it. In fact, since they are very much a minority of the iPhone market compared to android, and the environment is so horrible for iPhone devs, why would they write an iPhone app anyway? Seems foolish to burn dev time creating for a hostile and relatively small population environment.
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monopoly
Literally none of the laws say anything about monopolies. It's about whether they are big enough to have a distorting effect on the market and then use that distortion for profit. All the talk about monopolies is just a red herring from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
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monopoly
Literally none of the laws say anything about monopolies. It's about whether they are big enough to have a distorting effect on the market and then use that distortion for profit. All the talk about monopolies is just a red herring from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
Talk about Subjective Criteria!
"Distorting Effect" means whatever the FINE RECEIVERS want it to mean.
What a load of horseshit. Taken to its CURRENT extreme, why should ANY company endeavor to create a Superior Product or Service? All that will happen is people will start preferring it, and BOOM! the "Market is Distorted!"
Gimme a break!
I guess the EU just likes Socialism after all. . .
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The iOS ecosystem is effectively a closed market on its own, as there is little interoperability of Apps between iOS and Android. iOS is large enough that "Well, don't develop for it" is in fact a distorting effect between apps and services competing in the same field. Let's pick any two streaming apps: given that iOS is somewhere between 1/3 (EU) and 1/2 (USA) of all mobile devices, any service forced to drop one is at a serious competitive disadvantage. At the same time, there are few reasons for Apple to lower prices of their cash cow. Ironically, even less so in the USA, because customers want to price gauged as Droids are cheap, right?
What you don't seem to understand is that there is a huge difference between having a superior product and dictating terms to million of people. You can produce a superior vacuum cleaner and no one is forced to use it. Outside replacement parts, there is very little vendor lock-in either. The situation for a mobile platform is vastly different. If US regulators weren't sleeping, the same would have happened in the USA, too.
Your "arguments" are weak kimchee.
First, the iOS "Market" is nonexistent; so say the US Courts. They have Held that the actual Market is comprised of all Cellphone OEMs. And to say that Apple Controls that Market is to defy Mathematics.
No one is forced to Purchase nor Develop-for Apple Products. They just aren't. And no amount of statistical jiggery nor Knee-Jerk Legislation can make it so.
US Regulators aren't Sleeping; rather, EU Regulators are Grandstanding, Greedy and Shockingly Ignorant of Technology. T
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From the perspective of an app developer, it is. Given how brand conscious American teenager seem to be, arguing anything else is ridiculous.
Tough shit. Develop for Android.
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I'm interested to hear how did you come to the conclusion that the EU is trying to ban iOS and Google play. It is an interesting thesis, but lacks argumentation.
Please provide the facts and the logic that connects them into a plausible hypothesis, otherwise someone might think you're just dumping bullshit on us, and you're not, right?
Yet another EU protectionist act (Score:2, Troll)
Time for the US to retaliate. This is just as bogus as trying to force Apple to pay an Irish tax that didnâ(TM)t exist.
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And what would they retaliate against? Also remember this have been verified by two (!) courts. Unless the US wants to go full-rogue, there is no way to "retaliate". Even the US cannot afford to ignore international laws and treaties unless it wants to destroy its domestic economy.
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EU products. Raise tariffs to compensate for the laws the EU is writing specifically to only impact American companies. Look up "chicken tax" for similar. The fact that EU courts support EU laws doesn't impress. The EU has a LONG history of outright protectionism, and there is nothing "rogue" about retaliation under GATT. Nice try though.
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"Retaliating" for a law breaking company getting punished is "going rogue".
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Not if the law was expressly written to apply a tax and/or restraint on trade onto a foreign company, deliberately exempting EU companies. It's called trade retaliation.
"Going rogue" is what the EU did.
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Bullshit. You have no clue how laws and market regulation work.
Re: Yet another EU protectionist act (Score:2)
Ah what a nuanced, salient response! So enlightening! (I take that you have nothing useful to say and so that is why you have chosen to respond in such a pitiful way.)
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After the complete crap you stated? It is about as much as you deserve. That you are deep in denial and pretty clueless is not in dispute.
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and there is nothing "rogue" about retaliation under GATT. Nice try though.
The WTO has dispute mechanisms to decide what is allowed under GATT or not. That would be a good place to start.
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It's not "troll" because you disagree or want to censor somebody.
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Uh no, to all of this.
Retaliate on French wines, German cars, etc.
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The EU seems to think that the companies involved will just hand over money to the EU with no repercussions at all. Good luck!
Apple consumers voted (Score:1)
... to enjoy Apple's walled-garden abuses. Repeatedly. To the point they regularly crow about it.
These consumers wanted this. How are they only now realising it'a an abusive relationship?
The answer is actaully much simpler than treating litigation as a revenue stream. Consumers could choose to stop buying Apple's garbage.
So either the EU consumer base has the collective IQ of a rotting banana or EU legislators believe they do. Which is it?
It's about the 30% tax (Score:2)
The point here is the 30% apple tax on any revenue from within the app.
Not sure what the "cut" SHOULD be, but 30% just for distribution of a well-known app, which is living on different platforms is INSANE for such a large corporation.
The exact model for apple store (which is a value-add to the iPhone as well, and those are sold at decent profit as well) is for me quite unclear, but 30% of a billion-dollar profit margin is enough to launch your own fully functioning app store with ALL costs surrounding it c
'Outside the asylum' (Score:4, Interesting)
One of the later books in the Douglas Adams' 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' series has:
'One of the many many reasons why people thought him insane was because of the peculiarity of his house which, even in a land where most people's houses were peculiar in one way or another, was quite extreme in his peculiarness.
'His house was called The Outside of the Asylum.
'His name was simply John Watson, though he preferred to be called - and some of his friends had now reluctantly agreed to this -Wonko the Sane.'
That Apple has got away with it for so long is evidence that Wonko is probably right in his designation of most of the world as an asylum for the sane.
I put Spotify on my iPhone w/o any problems (Score:2)
What's always bothered me... (Score:2)
Is that Spotify and others agreed to the terms to develop and publish apps for the iPhone.
These terms WERE, initially, laid out clearly. Now, if the terms changed, developers should have been permitted to continue using the old or accept the new terms or old. If using the old, the vendor assumes liability when their product goes against a countries laws...not Apple. That's where Apple F'd up as they changed rules as THEY saw fit.
Now, they are up against of law makers who clearly have a bug up their ass a
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EU leans on American companies to siphon profits (Score:2)
"European companies cannot compete fairly," complains Spotify, who commands 30% of the music streaming, above competitors Amazon, Tencent, and Apple, who each have 15% shares.
https://explodingtopics.com/bl... [explodingtopics.com]
What a steaming crock of dung.
Re:A money grab (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, if any US company wants to sell (most) stuff into other countries, it MUST be in metric.
If it is electrical equipment it MUST conform to local electrical regulations, eg voltage and frequency, colour coding, etc
The US ALSO have rules and regulations that people who wish to export to the USA must conform to.
This is NOT a hard concept.
The main difference is that other countries have far better consumer centric laws as opposed to corporate centric ones.
The USA is about 4% of the world's population. If the US wishes to walk away from the 96%, they are free to do so, someone else will eventually take their place and there will simply be a new set of international standards the US can be part of, or not. But like the UK is understanding now after brexit , you can choose to leave anytime, but that removes your influence and STILL means you have to comply. Meantime other businesses in the EU added capacity so the EU countries buy more from the EU than they do from the UK, and UK jobs have gone because of this.
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If you want to do business in other countries. Obey their laws and regulations. For example, if any US company wants to sell (most) stuff into other countries, it MUST be in metric.
And despite the common narrative, just about everything here is metric - I haven't had an imperial standard car since 1987. The metric wars are over, except when we can trigger people.
If it is electrical equipment it MUST conform to local electrical regulations, eg voltage and frequency, colour coding, etc
How about we stop here? Of course electrical equipment has to conform to a country standard. But you are tying to have an argument I am not making.
Unless you are claiming that there is a fundamental difference in the bits and bytes of Apple and the EU.
This is quite pure and simple a claim that EU citizens are not capabl
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If you want to do business in other countries. Obey their laws and regulations. For example, if any US company wants to sell (most) stuff into other countries, it MUST be in metric.
And despite the common narrative, just about everything here is metric - I haven't had an imperial standard car since 1987. The metric wars are over, except when we can trigger people.
If it is electrical equipment it MUST conform to local electrical regulations, eg voltage and frequency, colour coding, etc
How about we stop here? Of course electrical equipment has to conform to a country standard. But you are tying to have an argument I am not making.
Unless you are claiming that there is a fundamental difference in the bits and bytes of Apple and the EU.
This is quite pure and simple a claim that EU citizens are not capable of doing a web search, and therefore have no idea that Spotify exists, and the reason they are not capable is 100 percent the fault of Apple, and that extracting money from Apple, and I don't know - removing Apple ads and putting Spotify ads recommending Spotify over Apple's streaming service is sensible and just.
I take it that you agree with that assessment 100 percent.
That's what I'm talking about, and the pecuniary extraction that is apparently needed. Ban Apple, and only allow spotify is a much better alternative, one in keeping with your "If you do not obey our regulations, you cannot sell your product here.
You see, sit down and take some telling. Grabbing money as an alternative to creating value does not breed innovation. Because it's easier than innovating. Why have businesses create, when you can extract money from the ones who do? And doing it in the name of helping citizens just tells us what the EU thinks of their citizens - which is not much.
I don't expect you to understand, because it is the culture you have been raised in.
Perfect!
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The US uses more metric than what perhaps immediately apparent to regular consumers. Film stock is in mm. Medicine dosages are measured in cc, computer fans are in mm, all recent firearms calibers are in mm, sound is measured in db (instead of PSI)..
Units like volts, lumens, megapixels, kilotons (of TNT) etc. are all metrified.
It just that some areas like construction and clothes sizes that are more visible to regular consumers never switched.
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The worst is food... all in old fashioned units.
Ever grocery shop and try to compare price per ounce with price per pound without a calculator. The labels on the shelves list one or the other seemingly randomly.
Happens every time I go to the store.
Stupid.
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For example, if any US company wants to sell (most) stuff into other countries, it MUST be in metric.
If it is electrical equipment it MUST conform to local electrical regulations, eg voltage and frequency, colour coding, etc
Requiring technical standards and modern common systems of measurement is good. It makes a competitive market more efficient and lowers the cost-price differential at a given level of profit. But so long as I can run Spotify on an Apple as easily as I can on a PC, the EU has no business picking favorites out of some doubtless corruption-tainted feeling of pity.
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They are encouraging competition by not enabling large corporations to stifle competition.
I own Apple gear, lots of it.
I DONT have any Apple subscriptions, then again I don't have subscriptions for other services either. My music is all on CD that I have ripped to put on my IOS devices because no one can take it away.
I am pro consumer rights
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For example, if any US company wants to sell (most) stuff into other countries, it MUST be in metric.
If it is electrical equipment it MUST conform to local electrical regulations, eg voltage and frequency, colour coding, etc
Requiring technical standards and modern common systems of measurement is good. It makes a competitive market more efficient and lowers the cost-price differential at a given level of profit. But so long as I can run Spotify on an Apple as easily as I can on a PC, the EU has no business picking favorites out of some doubtless corruption-tainted feeling of pity.
Precisely!
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It really is not a difficult idea. But arrogance combined with stupidity can make you not understand it.
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The USA was higher than 15% not that long ago....and it continues to fall.
China exported over 3.7 Trillion.The USA exported 3 Trillion, Germany 2 Trillion. The EU trading block is actually bigger than the USA as an exporter. Once you take away fossil fuels, US exports plummet.
The USA is highly dependant on imports for primary produce , minerals, technology, etc too.
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You have a choice. Deal with the US or deal with China for as long as their economy lasts.
Choose wisely.
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On behalf of the other 190 countries in the world, no thanks.
Shove your far right nationalism up your arse.
Leave us out of your neo cold war.
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My neo Cold War? I'm an isolationist, thanks, but also a realist. When the second most powerful country on the planet says they want to be number one and takes numerous serious actions to get there, I take them at their word. Especially when they're a n anti-freedom totalitarian state.
You sound like the kind of guy who would've sold bullets to Hitler because "that's not my war and I'm not a Jew".
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China is doomed. Their economy is hurting, their demographics are headed in the wrong direction. The corruption levels are higher than ever. There's more but there's nopoint. Your knowledge of global economics is poor. Don't go into business.
I'm only going to barely mention that dealing with a totalitarian regime is a bad idea as their minor partner is a bad idea.
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I've been watching China for 30 years. You? A few weeks?
Have you even seen the basic age based demographics chart for China?
Heard of Evergrande? Any idea how much money the middle classes have put into fake real estate projects?
I won't say you're dumb but you are certainly ignorant and showing DK signs.
Their economy is hurting and will only get worse as they double down on the same bad policies that put them there while chasing away foreign investment and pissing away trillions on upgrading their militar
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The Chinese government positions China as a more stable, reliable place to do business than the US. No massive changes of policy every 4 years, no insistence that you adopt US cultural values. Even on things like intellectual property, the Chinese government points out that their court system seems less biased against foreign entities, citing things like Apple's design patents case against Samsung.
It's not all true, of course, but neither is the case put forward by the US government. The EU is more stable,
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China says a lot of things. Sometimes they get confused and even say something that's true.
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So you have no actual arguments? Nice of you to admit that.
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Yup, my arguments are all over this thread and I;ve posted them on /. countless times.
But anyone even vaguely aware of China's broken system shouldn't need to be convinced of their ongoing doom or that 2+2=4.
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Using a VPN connected to Germany, and Safari Browser, It returns many streaming services
Would be cool if you could use that same VPN connected to Germany to replace Safari. I'm guessing non-EU phones will still be locked to the App Store, VPN or not.
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It sounds like a tourism boost. :)
Fly to Europe, eat a currywurst in Hamburg, or whatever your fancy, then purchase the latest iPhone with 'freedom' firmware.
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Using a VPN connected to Germany, and Safari Browser, It returns many streaming services
Would be cool if you could use that same VPN connected to Germany to replace Safari. I'm guessing non-EU phones will still be locked to the App Store, VPN or not.
We can jailbreak Apple phones here if we wish - It's a pity that there are no other smartphones than Apple - funny how the EU has to claim Apple has a monopoly when they obviously do not.
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We can jailbreak Apple phones here if we wish - It's a pity that there are no other smartphones than Apple - funny how the EU has to claim Apple has a monopoly when they obviously do not.
I've owned a jailbroken iPhone myself. Cydia was great, but keeping it all working with updated IOS required regular maintenance that is really only for enthusiasts. To be fair LineageOS takes some work too, but at least you are not constantly fighting a company that hates you.
F-droid is great on Android, but what makes it work is you don't need to install it from the Play Store. Apple requiring other app stores to be obtained from them kills much of the freedom they rather poorly pretend to support,
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And they will laugh at any VPN, because that is who they really are.
Speaking of VPN's I wonder if Europeans know just how much stuff they aren't seeing? If they have no idea that alternatives to iTunes exist, they probably don't know how to get around geoblocking.
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VPNs are popular in Europe to get around geoblocking. Some advertise that they can be used as such.
Of course, we also have The Pirate Bay, the world's greatest repository of media, which has no geographical restrictions at all.
Europe used to get more stuff than the US in some ways, because we shared Region 2 of the DVD geographic regions with Japan. Maybe they thought Europe being PAL and Japan being NTSC-J would stop us importing stuff, but it didn't. Sometimes the Japanese releases were better than the Eu
Re: A money grab (Score:2)
How do you jailbreak the current iPhones?
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funny how the EU has to claim Apple has a monopoly when they obviously do not.
This is exactly the point.
The EU has Declared that Apple, with only 30% of the European Smartphone market, has some sort of stranglehold on its Citizens. Citizens that it considers too stupid to discover alternate products and services on their own, just like they have been doing for Centuries.
It's just ridiculous; but the people that can stop it (EU government) are too busy salivating over the prospect of multiBEELION Euro fines, with virtually no real possibility of Appeal.
Apple's only logical choice is t
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Punish-Modding I see. . .
How Mature.
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Sometimes software asks you if you live in the EU, and if you say yes it disables some or all of the tracking and other bullshit.
Re:A money grab (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, If Apple Offends the EU, ban the sales and use of their product. Otherwise it is in the EU's best pecuniary interests to allow and continue to collect fines.
With the overarching demand to regulate, it stifles EU creativity.
And oh, apparently the Leaders in the EU believe that their citizens are mentally challenged, and have no idea that Spotify or any other music streaming sources exist. Apparently too stupid to do a Search with whatever browser is permitted their citizens.
Using a VPN connected to Germany, and Safari Browser, It returns many streaming services, including the egregiously offended Spotify. So it's just protectionism, with the EU pissed off that Apple doesn't promote Spotify over all other streaming services, including Apple's own.
I think we should look into why EU citizens have no idea how to use a search engine. They apparently can't find anything because it's all right there in a simple search. Even an Apple product appears to easily find it.
I know you're American and don't have the best reading comprehension, but you could try reading the article.
a Spotify complaint that Apple prevented apps from telling users about cheaper alternatives to Apple's music service
Apps, you know the things slashdot continually complains about because Apple has too much control over?
Apps under the control of Apple prevented users from being informed of alternatives. In other words stifling competition.
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Seriously, If Apple Offends the EU, ban the sales and use of their product. Otherwise it is in the EU's best pecuniary interests to allow and continue to collect fines.
With the overarching demand to regulate, it stifles EU creativity.
And oh, apparently the Leaders in the EU believe that their citizens are mentally challenged, and have no idea that Spotify or any other music streaming sources exist. Apparently too stupid to do a Search with whatever browser is permitted their citizens.
Using a VPN connected to Germany, and Safari Browser, It returns many streaming services, including the egregiously offended Spotify. So it's just protectionism, with the EU pissed off that Apple doesn't promote Spotify over all other streaming services, including Apple's own.
I think we should look into why EU citizens have no idea how to use a search engine. They apparently can't find anything because it's all right there in a simple search. Even an Apple product appears to easily find it.
I know you're American and don't have the best reading comprehension, but you could try reading the article.
a Spotify complaint that Apple prevented apps from telling users about cheaper alternatives to Apple's music service
Apps, you know the things slashdot continually complains about because Apple has too much control over?
Apps under the control of Apple prevented users from being informed of alternatives. In other words stifling competition.
And that "ban" extends to the entire Internet as well as all other information services?
This is bullshit of the highest order.
Re:A money grab (Score:4, Informative)
Apps under the control of Apple prevented users from being informed of alternatives. In other words stifling competition.
I don't get my information about the existence of other similar products from the products of competitors. Is that something that is normal in the EU - like do winemakers have to advertise other winemaker's products?
Not a valid analogy. Wine makers don't have anything resembling vendor lock-in. Apple does. Winemakers don't have the ability to effectively prevent a large percentage of people from being able to buy wine from anybody else. Apple does. And so on.
The reality is that Apple's devices have cornered somewhere on the order of a third of the phone market, and if you want to use the Spotify app on their phones, that app has to come through Apple's store.
So what Apple was doing was saying that if Spotify (a competitor to Apple Music) sells subscriptions from the Spotify app, they had to give Apple a 30% cut of their subscription fee.
So for Spotify to compete with Apple Music, they either had to accept a 30% smaller profit margin than Apple Music accepts, charge more money than Apple Music, or not make their subscriptions available from the app and hope that people figured out how to search for how to create a Spotify account on the web.
They chose the latter, which likely reduced their subscription count, but not nearly as much as it would have if they had charged a 43% premium to make up for Apple's 30% cut.
In effect, Apple, in its role as the iOS App Store gatekeeper, was exercising unfair competition by making Spotify choose between providing a terrible onboarding experience (an app that can't do anything without an account and can't even tell new users to go to the website to subscribe, thanks to Apple policies) and a premium that would allow Apple to easily undercut it.
It's all about Apple's abuse of their role as gatekeeper for the platform to harm competition. If Apple didn't have such a large market share, or if Apple didn't deliberately shape their rules to make it hard for companies to not give them a large chunk of the profit, or if Apple weren't directly competing against many of the companies on the App Store, this might not be a big deal, but with all three of those things being true, it's a problem, and it's the sort of problem that can get companies broken up if Apple isn't careful.
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Apps under the control of Apple prevented users from being informed of alternatives. In other words stifling competition.
I don't get my information about the existence of other similar products from the products of competitors. Is that something that is normal in the EU - like do winemakers have to advertise other winemaker's products?
Not a valid analogy. Wine makers don't have anything resembling vendor lock-in. Apple does.
I have a whole lot of non-vendor locked in software on my macs. Software that never saw the play store. I have software I have written on my macs and iPhones that will never see the playstore.
So you are taking a lie to invalidate my analogy.
Winemakers don't have the ability to effectively prevent a large percentage of people from being able to buy wine from anybody else. Apple does.
Since we're talking about Streaming here, I have Sirius XM service in my vehicles. There is a Sirius XM app for the phone. Spotify has a phone App, and Desktop access as well.
Explain if you will, exactly what Apple must do in order to not offend the people of the
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Apps under the control of Apple prevented users from being informed of alternatives. In other words stifling competition.
I don't get my information about the existence of other similar products from the products of competitors. Is that something that is normal in the EU - like do winemakers have to advertise other winemaker's products?
Not a valid analogy. Wine makers don't have anything resembling vendor lock-in. Apple does.
I have a whole lot of non-vendor locked in software on my macs. Software that never saw the play store. I have software I have written on my macs and iPhones that will never see the playstore.
What does Google's store have to do with software that runs on an iPhone? I'm going to assume you meant the iOS App Store.
Yes, you can technically compile an app and sign it yourself and run it on your device without distributing it through Apple's store. No, this is entirely beyond the abilities of an average person, and if your business model depends on people doing that, you're not going to have a business for very long. If both Spotify and the EU consider it anticompetitive for Apple to have forced
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Yes, it was obviously a money grab - by Apple.
The fine leverages it somewhat.
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This is what is called a "measured response". First, there is a warning. Ignore that and you get fined. Still ignore that and eventually your products get banned. You should familiarize yourself with that approach...
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This is what is called a "measured response". First, there is a warning. Ignore that and you get fined. Still ignore that and eventually your products get banned. You should familiarize yourself with that approach...
I've already pointed out this is an anticompetitive protectionist measure, as the claims that EU citizens cannot find and do not know that there are alternatives to Apple's streaming services is to put it bluntly, a lie that is a "Big Lie". It is simplicity itself to go to the App store, and find software for Spotify and others. As I have pointed out, I have Sirius XM apps, and had no problems finding and installing them. If I wanted Spotify, there are App Store apps, as well as Play Store Apps.
Since Sp
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Yeah, well, if you make bullshit claims, then you get bullshit conclusions. In actual reality, this is the _exact_ opposite of anti-competitive.
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Yeah, well, if you make bullshit claims, then you get bullshit conclusions. In actual reality, this is the _exact_ opposite of anti-competitive.
No, it isn't. Allow me to illustrate a similar action that occurred in the US. Here's the backgound:
Harley Davidson was the most prominent motorcycle manufacturer for many years. So long ago that their engine was designed to be very thin to fit in military bombers or somesuch - a sub optimal solution that put both pistons on the same crank journal. Which if you know your twin cylinder design, you can't have a normal 4 stroke operation. So they don't fire in a normal sequence. That is what gives Harleys t
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Seriously, you are indoctrinated or deep in delusion. Have a look at what regulation to keep markets competitive looks like, because you have apparently never seen it.
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Seriously, you are indoctrinated or deep in delusion. Have a look at what regulation to keep markets competitive looks like, because you have apparently never seen it.
You do you, homie - I'll refrain from gratuitous insults, that's your bailiwick. Although it grows a bit old to try to have a conversation with one whose main debat tactic is that. But far be it from me to try to control you, I do get bored with that after a while.
There are many different outlooks on economic processes. from Laissez-faire to the common owned socialism system to the far end of Government owned Left or right wing outlook. And a mixtures in between.
What I am referring to, is called Eco
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If Apple Offends the EU, ban the sales and use of their product.
Based on what legal principle? There are legal principles in place and those impose fines. I know you think the EU is some Soviet era shithole, but the reality is they don't just make up shit as they go along. They have written rules (laws) and enforcement processes to ensure those rules are followed.
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If Apple Offends the EU, ban the sales and use of their product.
Based on what legal principle?
The EU is a sovereign entity, and can make and implement laws as they wish.
I know you think the EU is some Soviet era shithole, but the reality is they don't just make up shit as they go along.
Since you went there...
To be precise, I believe that the EU is composed of people who have performed some pretty shitty stunts over the years, and engaged in genocide as late as the mid 1990's. They have precipitated a war that killed a lot of people, and committed crimes against humanity. And not just one country. The Holocaust required cooperation from all of the countries who participated.
While Americans admit the bad shit we
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The EU is a sovereign entity, and can make and implement laws as they wish.
Exactly. So show me what law they passed that would kick Apple out instead of just fining their practices. You can't can you? Because that isn't the goal, it's just a fever dream from some anti-EU slashdotter.
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The EU is a sovereign entity, and can make and implement laws as they wish.
Exactly. So show me what law they passed that would kick Apple out instead of just fining their practices. You can't can you? Because that isn't the goal, it's just a fever dream from some anti-EU slashdotter.
Umm, are you saying that the EU cannot make more laws? What is the basis of that supposed fact. You will note that in my original reply, I wrote:
"The EU is a sovereign entity, and can make and implement laws as they wish."
What I am saying is exactly this. EU can pass legislative law at any time to restrict who and what does business in the EU. This law does not have to exist at this instant. But it can be passed at any time, and the EU can state to Apple - GTFO!, and no more Apple in the EU.
What migh
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Indeed. And with the crap Apple has been pulling the last few months, more will be coming.
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That is because you are indoctrinated and blind.