Apple Faces 'Strong Action' If App Store Changes Fall Short, EU's Breton Says (reuters.com) 65
Apple faces strong action if changes to its App Store do not meet incoming European Union regulations, the bloc's industry chief said on Friday. Reuters: In a move designed to comply with the EU's incoming Digital Markets Act (DMA), the company will soon allow software developers to distribute their apps to Apple devices via alternative stores. From early March, developers will be able to offer alternative app stores on iPhones and opt out of using Apple's in-app payment system, which charges commissions of up to 30%.
However, critics have said the changes do not go far enough, arguing Apple's fee structure remains unfair, and that the changes may be in violation of the DMA. Asked about Apple's plans, EU industry chief Thierry Breton exclusively told Reuters: "The DMA will open the gates of the internet to competition so that digital markets are fair and open. Change is already happening. As from 7 March we will assess companies' proposals, with the feedback of third parties." He added: "If the proposed solutions are not good enough, we will not hesitate to take strong action."
However, critics have said the changes do not go far enough, arguing Apple's fee structure remains unfair, and that the changes may be in violation of the DMA. Asked about Apple's plans, EU industry chief Thierry Breton exclusively told Reuters: "The DMA will open the gates of the internet to competition so that digital markets are fair and open. Change is already happening. As from 7 March we will assess companies' proposals, with the feedback of third parties." He added: "If the proposed solutions are not good enough, we will not hesitate to take strong action."
Well the EC can't have it both ways (Score:2)
Re:Well the EC can't have it both ways (Score:5, Insightful)
What court case are you talking about? There are a ton of laws out there where the letter of the law is not like a mathematical formula but where the law is written down in a way that gives authorities, companies and judges some space to interpret how things are intended. Apple can go for the most minimalistic interpretation possible, but obviously they will be painting a big target sign on their back then for enforcement of whatever laws authorities have in the books.
Apple is basically giving the EU a middle finger, they shouldn't be surprised to get one back in the next law, next anti-competitive action, etc. Usually it's wiser to just cooperate in the first place.
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Plus they had to pay a few hundred Million $. EU should take it to the next level. Billion $ fine at the minimum
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They seem to be under the impression that everywhere is as corrupt as the US.
Everybody has a price, some are just higher than others. You will find plenty of corruption in Belgium, it's just not accessible (affordable) to the general public, and Google/Apple's "offer" was laughable
Re: Well the EC can't have it both ways (Score:2)
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The regulations were annulled in 2018 after a five-year legal battle involving an appeal through the European Court of Justice, and the contentious label was removed from vacuum cleaners.
Dyson argued it had lost out on sales due to this lack of distinction and sought damages of £150 million from the European Commission.
However, on Wednesday the General Court of the EU rejected the claim.
Judges said: “By using the standardised empty receptacle testing method, the Commission did not manifestly and gravely disregard the limits on its discretion or commit a sufficiently serious breach of the principles of equal treatment and sound administration.”
And what the judge said basically means that you can't hold the EC responsible for something as simple as not understanding that a vacuum cleaner with a filter bag will use more energy when empty than when not. Actual damages presented notwithstanding. IOW there are no repercussions if they have no clue what the hell they are writing laws about.
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Wait so you are saying the EC can have it both ways? Like they can do whatever they want and won't be held responsible?
I think I may have misinterpreted your initial comment.
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The EU court just ruled you can't blame the European commission for not understanding the tech they make laws about.
Citation please. I'm pretty sure no EU court ruled any such thing.
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but any high-tech stuff comes from US...or China (or Korea or Japan).
Like what? Those high tech iPhones... made in India... with an ARM (UK) chip... fabbed by TSMC in Taiwan... on an ASML (Dutch) EUV machine?
What is this high tech stuff made in the US that they make without Taiwanese or European tech at the core?
We feel the same about the US. (Score:5, Interesting)
Face it, Europe is like a third world country.
He says on a phone with a European-designed CPU.
But what's it like having the shittiest and most unaffordable healthcare in the world? And your schools are not far off.
What's it like having tens of thousands die because your healthcare is so shit and half your politicians are bought by the NRA?
What's it like being having to pretend democracy is a forced choose between Biden and the insurrectionist again?
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I thought in leftist minds EU=Europe, and UK left it?
Well I'm not leftist. You're just someone who used the othering of the far right to make himself feel better. It isn't working, is it?
But we have this thing called education. The EU is the multinational umbrella govt. Europe is a continent that all 27 EU countries are a subset of. It's not that complicated. Maybe work harder to disprove my claim about US education?
You mean health care that people from third world places like Europe come and visit whenever they come down with something that their own shitty healthcare can't handle?
If it makes you a little happier, you can believe what you want. :)
And unaffordable - well, for a EU third-worlder like you it must seem like that, but people in US kinda can afford more than you can.
A few of you can. Not that you care about anybody but your miserable se
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Re:Buh bye (Score:5, Interesting)
Your comment paints an intriguing, albeit extreme, scenario. Let's unpack what it would really mean for Apple to 'take their ball and go home' from Europe. First off, consider the contractual obligations. Apple would need to settle accounts with suppliers, carriers, consumers, and businesses. Would their European subsidiaries file for bankruptcy, surrendering assets and intellectual property? It's possible that European entities could then acquire the Apple brand in the region through government-led auctions.
The App Store alone poses a significant challenge. Ceasing its operations in Europe could trigger a cascade of lawsuits from consumers seeking refunds for their premium devices, now deprived of essential services. Moreover, app developers, especially major U.S.-based ones, would likely sue for lost revenue, aggravated by Apple's contractual commitments like Google's default browser status in Europe.
These legal battles wouldn't be confined to Europe. Apple, as a publicly traded company, would face immediate legal challenges in the U.S., particularly from investors concerned about a sudden 25% drop in revenue. This is not just about market dynamics; it's a potential corporate governance crisis.
Employment is another critical angle. With approximately 22,000 employees in Europe, Apple can't simply vanish without addressing labor laws, severance packages, and potential lawsuits. This extends beyond retail stores; it encompasses a complex network of operational, legal, and financial obligations across multiple countries.
Finally, consider the response from governments and competitors. Apple withdrawing from such a lucrative market would likely be seen as a strategic blunder, one that competitors (Asians, American and Europeans alike) would eagerly exploit. It's not just about a corporate tit-for-tat; it's about the broader implications for market dynamics, employment, and technological presence in Europe.
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These legal battles wouldn't be confined to Europe. Apple, as a publicly traded company, would face immediate legal challenges in the U.S., particularly from investors concerned about a sudden 25% drop in revenue. This is not just about market dynamics; it's a potential corporate governance crisis.
This is the key point. A sudden drop in revenue would be followed by a sudden drop in the Apple stock price, which means a drop in bonuses for Apple execs. Apple as a company may be willing to thumb their nose at Europe, but the decision makers certainly would never consider doing so if that meant taking a hit on their bonuses.
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Wait, are you actually on Apple's side? I applaud the EU doing this to apple and it's long overdue. Of course, the US doesn't have the balls to take action.
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No, we're just far more measured. Although I think they're morons for doing so, iFans WANT somebody to rule their digital lives like a king. Shit, you don't even have to look hard nor far for that, you can find plenty of them expressing this EXACT sentiment right here on slashdot. I furthermore believe that is their right to have that if they want, which unintuitively is also a fundamental trait of a well functioning democracy: freedom of association. However I do also recognize that this model fundamentall
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iFans WANT somebody to rule their digital lives like a king. Shit, you don't even have to look hard nor far for that, you can find plenty of them expressing this EXACT sentiment right here on slashdot.
This is very true, but not completely. There are Apple users who want to not be hobbled by artificial restrictions. Most probably didn't want to buy an iPhone, it was the only free option with their phone plan that wasn't complete garbage. Many simply had no clue until they got an iPhone, ran into things they couldn't do or which didn't work right, and then found out from someone with an Android phone that those weren't problems for them. But they invested in apps, and don't want to abandon those expenditur
Is it about (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Is it about (Score:5, Insightful)
No one has suggested punishing Apple for being successful. You can relax about that, this is about Apple being anti-consumer.
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No one has suggested punishing Apple for being successful. You can relax about that, this is about Apple being anti-consumer.
But what about when the overwhelming majority of the Affected Consumers, i.e., Apple Users, would actually prefer that things stay just the way they are?
Sounds to me like the EU could care less what Consumers want, and are simply trying to "Protect" a small percentage of Businesses, in a Purely Political attempt to "Look Tough" (and add some lucrative "fines" to the Governmental Coffers).
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No one has suggested punishing Apple for being successful. You can relax about that, this is about Apple being anti-consumer.
But what about when the overwhelming majority of the Affected Consumers, i.e., Apple Users, would actually prefer that things stay just the way they are?
Are there studies or surveys that indicate this is true? If the EU government is indeed acting against the will of their populace, that's an important factor.
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But the conversation has played out like this :
1. Europe: Apple, we demand you to open up your ecosystem to sideloading
2. Apple: ok, but we’re still gonna take our 30% cut
3. Europe: uhhhhhhh, we really meant you need to open up your ecosystem AND leave more money to your competitors.
Uh huh. So, this is really about money. I know hundreds of Apple iphone users and
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A fee for not buying Apple is the very definition of anti-competitive. This is the equivalent of a "not using the house prostitute" fee: Which every hotel, out-house and dog-house will charge if Apple is allowed this money-grab. If you think competitors don't "deserve" money, please send more of Your money to Apple Corp. as an example of good behaviour. I don't do that and applet publishers don't want to do that.
Re: Is it about (Score:2)
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No one has suggested punishing Apple for being successful. You can relax about that, this is about Apple being anti-consumer.
But what about when the overwhelming majority of the Affected Consumers, i.e., Apple Users, would actually prefer that things stay just the way they are?
Are there studies or surveys that indicate this is true? If the EU government is indeed acting against the will of their populace, that's an important factor.
The EU sure didn't conduct any statistically-relevant Data that I know of. Plus a quick perusal of DDG doesn't seem to highlight any real Research.
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But what about when the overwhelming majority of the Affected Consumers, i.e., Apple Users, would actually prefer that things stay just the way they are?
Then they just do nothing and everything will stay as it is for them.
But other users, that want more choice, will have it.
Nobody is forcing third-party stores or alternative payment providers on users. They can alway refuse to change.
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But what about when the overwhelming majority of the Affected Consumers, i.e., Apple Users, would actually prefer that things stay just the way they are?
Then they just do nothing and everything will stay as it is for them.
But other users, that want more choice, will have it.
Nobody is forcing third-party stores or alternative payment providers on users. They can alway refuse to change.
Until $POPULAR_APP or $YOUR_BANK_APP is ONLY Available on $RANDOM_STORE.
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The bank apps will stay on the aple app store, and hete is why, rhe banks want their apps to be easily available to evrerybody, and the apps themselves don't create amy revenue rhey just grant acceess to backend system so no cut to apple there either. You see a common theme her, if you don't I'll spell it out : the pay pays apple nothing beond the dev account ie they have all most no incentive to leave the app store. The $POPULAR_APP might be an issue the thing with being popular is that this is not a steady state so if they suddenly move to an alternative store they might stop being popular esp if there are alternatives still on the app store
I admit, your Logic seems Logical, as far as Free Apps with no "In App Purchases" to Scam with.
But, it will Happen; and, IMHO, the Benefits to Apple Users definitely will be far outweighed by the degradation of Platform Privacy and Security which will accompany these changes.
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Anti-competitive actually, not anti-consumer per se.
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Opening up the Apple ecosystem, or a cash grab at Apple profits?
It's the EU, you never can tell with them. EU companies are tired of always being dead last at everything, so they do the only thing they can do: never compete, only complain. And of course, the EU listens.
Just use andriod (Score:2, Interesting)
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Re:Just use andriod (Score:4, Informative)
What about app-makers? Can they build a mobile app without dealing with Apple & Google? Can Payment Service Providers provide ways to pay for digital services on mobile apps?
Similar to how a lot of the Microsoft anti-trust was about PC makers being unable to forego Microsoft (even though clients could install Linux after paying the microsoft tax), this is in large part about companies being unable to escape the grasp of Apple and Google. Even major app-makers have no negotiating power against apple. This is exactly the type of situation these market-authorities are designed to improve.
It's not about whether Apple is a good shephard or whether consumers are able to choose services, it's about whether there is a good competitive environment on the marketplace.
Re:Just use andriod (Score:4, Informative)
The reason you don't understand this, is that you are confused about who the customer is. YOU are not the customer that the EU is protecting in this case. It's actually the app developers who are the customers in this case.
YOU can "just choose Android." App developers, if they want to target a majority of the market, have no choice. They must host their apps on the Apple App Store and Google's Play Store. They have no other (real) options.
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Developers aren't customers, they are vendors.
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Vendors are also customers, depending on which relationships you are looking at.
Developers are vendors to the users of the software they develop, yes. Those developers also pay Apple fees and commissions to have their apps made available in the App Store. They pay Apple for payment processing and customer service. As such, they are customers of Apple.
The relationship under scrutiny here by the EU is the relationship between developers and Apple (where developers are the customers), not the relationship betw
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Developers are vendors to the users of the software they develop, yes. Those developers also pay Apple fees and commissions to have their apps made available in the App Store. They pay Apple for payment processing and customer service. As such, they are customers of Apple.
My philosophy is that if I have to pay you to add value to your platform, then go fuck yourself. I already have my own ways of distributing my code, and I'm sure as shit not going to pay an annual developer fee or buy a mac.
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You have ways to distribute your code on the iOS platform, without paying Apple's fees? That's a neat trick!
Sure, if you don't need to make money with your code, you can be selective. If you're in business, you don't always get to pick what platforms you develop for, or what hoops you have to jump through to get your code there.
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You have ways to distribute your code on the iOS platform, without paying Apple's fees? That's a neat trick!
No, I don't build (or test) any of my personally developed code on anything apple. I've had people ask if I can build mac binaries, (generally my code is compatible with win and linux, and as a side effect I use cross platform libraries that tend to be compatible with mac as well) but the only mac I have isn't even mine, same with my apple signing key, so I tell them that if they want it, they have to build it and they have to buy their own signing key.
Most ifans don't even care about the software I write a
Re:Just use andriod (Score:4, Informative)
Developers aren't customers, they are vendors.
The EU bases its economical policy in general on free market. It ensured through regulation that the market of distributing phone applications follows the free market principles. The regulation makes it the requirements only apply above a certain level of market share (I believe it is around 10-15%). The threshold is designed to avoid regulatory capture; new actors in the digital markets can emerge and thrive until they are big enough to afford the more complicated regulatory requirements. The objective is to promote more competition in the markets where the "invisible hand" has proven to fail.
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Since back in the days of the late Steve Jobs... (Score:4, Insightful)
Jobs always had the approach that Apple as the hardware supplier owned the customer, and that people making profits off selling Apple's customers their software were essentially ripping Apple off. So the collective dream at Apple has always been that as a developer you should pay for the privilege of being allowed to supply your software to OUR customers.
Apple also has always had the approach that they should own whatever connected to 'their' products, so you see the proliferation of special connectors and protocols. You also see stuff like soldered in memory, so you either buy it at the outset or do without. Again, its you will buy your memory from Apple, and you will pay whatever they ask for it. Or do without.
In the end this turns into an ambition for total control over whatever the customer did with 'our' computer. Or phone. Or music player.
There is a different point of view possible on this issue. Namely, that the customer has bought some hardware and should be free to load whatever they want to on it, connect it to whatever they want, and that they don't owe Apple anything for the privilege, neither do the people who develop the software or provide the other things that we connect.
The EU has taken the traditional anti-trust point of view that as much mixing and matching as the customer wants should be possible, and that if you have sold the hardware, you must not prevent your hardware customer from putting what he wants on it. Just as if you are GM back in the day, when they were really powerful, they could not oblige car owners to buy spare parts only from GM. Or various kinds of add-ons. And they could not charge the suppliers of these third party things a fee for the privilege of installing them in the customer's own car.
The interesting social question is why Apple users are generally so enthusiastic about having their ability to do what they want with their own product restricted.
It seems to be because they have bought into the Apple myth that its a different, more worthy, more politically correct company, and whatever it does must be applauded, and all criticism of anything resisted.
The EU however is a different beast. It has its own bad and illegitimate reasons for doing what its doing. But its doing the right thing for bad reasons, and its stance is amusingly similar to Apple's. It thinks it owns its market, and if you want to sell here, you play by our rules and probably pay for the privilege. Remind you of anything?
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ALL the big tech companies are VERY bad about lock-in... with Apple likely being one of the least worrisome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Google, despite all of their shit, hasn't really done that. You can still sideload, and you're free to fork Android and even keep the source code to yourself if you want.
Re:Since back in the days of the late Steve Jobs.. (Score:4, Interesting)
You also see stuff like soldered in memory, so you either buy it at the outset or do without. Again, its you will buy your memory from Apple, and you will pay whatever they ask for it. Or do without.
If only it was just soldered memory. Nowadays they use soldered SSDs. And worse: The firmware is loaded to the SSD so they could shave ten cents off of the $2,500+ price tag. This means your computer only lasts as long as your SSD, because once that dies, your computer won't boot to anything ever again. Sure, you could desolder the SSD and replace it in theory, problem is your computer still won't boot again unless you commit copyright infringement. Can you as an individual get away with it? Maybe, but no unauthorized (by Apple) repair shop can, while Apple authorized repair shops aren't allowed to even carry or sell board level components.
iFans deserve no less than this shit they are so enamored with.
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The interesting social question is why Apple users are generally so enthusiastic about having their ability to do what they want with their own product restricted.
They don't know shit, that's why. Your average Apple user, and I have just recently been engaging them in Facebook on this exact issue so I absolutely do know what I am talking about here, does not know that all browsers are Safari underneath on iOS for example. They know even less about security — Again, I just had a back and forth with a Mac user on Facebook about why it's a problem to run an old version of the OS. He literally thought that because all those vulnerabilities already existed in the so
The EU should make an official Jailbreak for iOS (Score:2)
Re:The EU should make an official Jailbreak for iO (Score:4, Insightful)
Part of the problem with that is the very name "jailbreaking". It's become a FUD-term that companies use to dissuade people. It's to scare them into thinking they are doing something illegal. Consider "jailbreaking" a Fire Stick. What does that mean exactly? Flipping a switch in the settings to allow you to install apps from "untrusted" (by Amazon) sources. That's all. It's exactly the same as flipping the switch in the settings on an Android phone to do the same, yet no one calls it "jailbreaking my smartphone".
Jaillbreaking on an iPhone involves leveraging an actual security venerability. We don't want vulnerabilities that can be exploited. A switch to allow sideloading like Android has is what we need here. Not a "blessed exploit".
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It's become a FUD-term that companies use to dissuade people.
Where did you get this idea from? They call it that because the original developers who released jailbreaks literally called them exactly that. Much in the same, for Android the equivalent has stuck with the name "rooting" because that's exactly what that was called as well.
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The word "become" is the operative verb in my post. Rooting and jailbreaking are not the same thing in common vernacular now.
Go to any pirate IPTV forum or even more common places, and "jailbreak" is the term they use to describe turning on the "allow apps from unknown sources" feature on with a Fire Stick. It's the same as me doing that on an Android phone. I'm not rooting my Android phone by flipping a switch. Jailbreaking is also the term the cable industry uses for this as well. It's just newthink vocab
Politicians are not Software Developers (Score:2)
In no way, shape, or form should the politicians and bureaucrats in government be defining what software Apple, Google, and others should bundle on their devices. They're not technically knowledgeable, and their plans will make the iPhone less safe than allowing Apple to be the middleman for all sales of software on the IOS platform. Also, Apple has already dropped the 30% fee to 15% until the company sells $$$$ worth of software and services. Without forcing similar changes to Sony's Playstation store and
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They're not forcing Apple to provide anything. They're declaring software-makers have a choice and Apple has to stop interfering-in and preventing that choice.
One can debate "walled-garden" versus "free-for-all" until the proverbial cows come home. The politicians have decided that a trillion-dollar corporation should not control the buying and selling of third-party merchandise.
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They only control on their own platform. Like others have been doing for years. The only reason this is happening is Apple Derangement Syndrome.