Apple Might Have Sold Up To 180,000 Vision Pro Headsets Over Pre-Order Weekend (engadget.com) 108
According to analyst Min-Chi Kuo, Apple may have sold somewhere between 160,000 to 180,000 Vision Pro headsets during the past weekend. "This already far exceeds Kuo's earlier production figures of 60,000 to 80,000 units targeting the initial release on February 2, which is no wonder that the Vision Pro was sold out immediately after pre-orders opened," notes Engadget. From the report: While this sounds like positive news, Kuo pointed out that with shipping times remaining unchanged within the first 48 hours, this might indicate a quick drop in demand after the heavy users and hardcore fans were done pre-ordering. In contrast, iPhone orders would usually "see a steady increase in shipping times 24 to 48 hours after pre-orders open." But of course, the Vision Pro isn't meant for the average consumer in its current state, especially given the lack of some mainstream apps like YouTube, Spotify or Netflix. Not to mention the eye-watering $3,499 base price either, though Apple may later release a cheaper model in the ballpark of $1,500 to $2,500, according to an earlier report by Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.
Kuo added that even with the device being sold out based on the upper initial production figure of 80,000 units, that only accounts for about 0.007 percent of Apple's 1.2 billion active users, which makes the Vision Pro "a very niche product" in the eyes of Cupertino. That is to say, the tech giant will need to somehow drum up and sustain demand for the headset before its global launch, which is rumored to take place some time before this year's WWDC -- likely in June. Meanwhile, Apple is also busy setting up demo areas at its US flagship stores, in the hopes of making a few more sales with their 25-minute sessions.
Kuo added that even with the device being sold out based on the upper initial production figure of 80,000 units, that only accounts for about 0.007 percent of Apple's 1.2 billion active users, which makes the Vision Pro "a very niche product" in the eyes of Cupertino. That is to say, the tech giant will need to somehow drum up and sustain demand for the headset before its global launch, which is rumored to take place some time before this year's WWDC -- likely in June. Meanwhile, Apple is also busy setting up demo areas at its US flagship stores, in the hopes of making a few more sales with their 25-minute sessions.
I'm very curious about this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not curious enough to buy one. I'm not an early adapter for new tech, mostly because I'm not a fan of throwing money down on something extra expensive that I don't know I'll be using a year from now. But I am curious what the feedback is gonna be from the people that wanted this thing so desperately they were willing to jump on the first iteration.
Will there be a killer app? Or will it mostly be used as a "home theater" experience with a few games tossed in here or there? I'd really like to hear when they finally get out into the wild.
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Will there be a killer app?
If they sell enough, someone will make one. Right now, there's not a lot of incentive and Apple sure hasn't come up with a good reason to own one.
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:1)
You have that arse over tit.
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Not me. They're the ones that decided to go to market with nothing but hardware.
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Apple is hoping Face Arsing will become the Next Big Thing?
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
It already is. I used to never hear about eating pussy from the back, now it comes up all the time.
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One possible killer app could be virtual meetings.
With the right software, it could be like you're all sitting in the room together.
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With the right software, it could be like you're all sitting in the room together.
With all the whining about return to office, why would people want to be in a virtual meeting in the same room?
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With the right software, it could be like you're all sitting in the room together.
With all the whining about return to office, why would people want to be in a virtual meeting in the same room?
I don't think many people dislike the office because meetings are better virtually. They don't like the commute. An in person meeting experience with no commute sounds ideal.
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The whiners won't be happy until physical butts are in their office after a long and unnecessary commute. But a virtual meeting room would satisfy one of the things they've been whining about, which will just make them whine more.
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Makes you wonder if commercial real estate has some kind of perverse financial incentive to push these narratives. Business owners should care more about actual productivity but they absolutely don't - who or what is swaying them to such a degree?
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not a killer app, that's a boner killer.
The best thing about current virtual meeting technology is that I can safely scratch myself.
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That's not a killer app, that's a boner killer.
The best thing about current virtual meeting technology is that I can safely scratch myself.
You can still safely scratch yourself. It probably wouldn't be video recording every body movement, just your face at most.
Re:I'm very curious about this. (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never been on a video chat with a coworker and thought, what this boring conversation really needs is to be more immersive.
Are virtual meetings going to be better in VR? I prefer voice over video or VR so I can use my audio headset and do other things when the conversation isn't relevant to me.
VR enables a bunch of exciting, interesting or useful experiences. Working in an office but in VR isn't one of them.
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I was in a meeting this morning with about a dozen other people, 3 or whom started the meeting with their camera on.
After a couple of minutes they turned them off, because what's the point in having them on? Someone shared a document, and that was much more use.
3D headsets are not going to improve that.
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3 or whom started the meeting with their camera on. After a couple of minutes they turned them off, because what's the point in having them on
Most communication is non-verbal. I hate giving a presentation and not being able to see my audience. With cameras off, I can't tell if they are interested, confused, agreeing with me, etc. It's why the late-night TV hosts were all terrible when they didn't have a live audience. It's impossible to tell if what you are doing is any good.
But as an attendee in a boring meeting with no real purpose, I love turning off my camera because I can do something else while pretending to be in the meeting.
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Most communication is non-verbal.
Most communication in a meeting is non-necessary. At least with camera off you can work while pretending the meeting is important.
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I've never been on a video chat with a coworker and thought, what this boring conversation really needs is to be more immersive.
I don't know what "immersive" means here, but if it makes the meeting dynamics closer to what happens face to face, then it will be great. I suspect that until VC (VR or not) can achieve basically zero latency it won't be as good as meeting F2F, but I also suspect that VR can move it a little closer. More effective remote meetings would mean spending less time on airplanes, and I'm all for that.
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I've never been on a video chat with a coworker and thought, what this boring conversation really needs is to be more immersive.
I don't know what "immersive" means here, but if it makes the meeting dynamics closer to what happens face to face, then it will be great. I suspect that until VC (VR or not) can achieve basically zero latency it won't be as good as meeting F2F, but I also suspect that VR can move it a little closer. More effective remote meetings would mean spending less time on airplanes, and I'm all for that.
Meeting dynamics and face to face... So basically you want virtual meetings to be as boring and lengthy as face to face ones and I cant even mutter the words "stupid cunt" on mute to release some of the built up pressure from listening to them.
My meeting count is down since I last worked in an office but I'm still in too many meetings that could be an email.
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Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
That's not always an option. Even useless meetings still let you "be seen" and give you face time with management that might otherwise not interact with you. Of course these don't necessarily need to be in person.
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If the conversation isn't relevant to you, why are you there to begin with?
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Will there be a killer app?
If they sell enough, someone will make one.
I guess there won't be a "killer app" then.
There was a well-known Apple/Elmo zealot here that used to make that same silly claim. He kept it up for a little while after Apple revealed their ski mask, convinced that it must have been the best anyone could do on the AR front, and that people would get over their initial revulsion because of magic or something. I haven't seen him around in a while.
It's not like Apple's thing does anything fundamentally different from other products. There is nothing new the
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Realistically, the "killer app" here is going to be the virtual display. It's hardly revolutionary and I wouldn't even mention it except that virtual displays for travel seem to be the only thing anyone can come up with to justify buying Apple's overpriced offering. Believe it or not, we actually have these now in much smaller and lighter packages for significantly less. You can even wear some of these on an airplane without calling attention to yourself. I picked up one last year to play with for ~$300 bucks. I don't have any complaints about the quality of the virtual display and feels natural to use even with just 3dof. There are other models that offer 6dof. There are also some really cheap ones that just give you a giant display floating some fixed distance in front of you. For the "I just want to watch a movie on a massive screen when I travel" set, it's probably the best choice. When it comes to travel, small, light, and cheap are what you want.
The virtual display capability isn't worth the price for these things. The only other use-case that I've seen that is tons of fun is using VR headsets for a first-person display on a drone. If you've never done it, it's as close to feeling like you're flying without actually flying as you can get. But I don't see a lot of people lining up to buy at this price for that, when there are literally thousands of cheaper alternatives that work just as well.
If this product niche is going to succeed, they need somet
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I think you're right - but it is more than just the display. Sometime around its introduction, I saw some comments from people who had used it. One thing that struck me: it was hands-down the best pointing device the person has used. Eye movements instead of hand movements. The killer app may just be a better 2d desktop. Apple's support of iPad applications makes a lot of sense in that context. An excellent display and pointing device.
Probably v1 is too heavy to use all day, but maybe v2 or v3 will become s
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Key point of failure. (Score:1)
Even if we could do that well, which we can't
Aha, so that is where your understanding went off the rails!
You'll see.
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It's always the same vague promise. How about a firm time-line for your future predictions? It's easy to sit back and smugly proclaim you know the future when you can say "just wait and see" in perpetuity. Ah, but you might be a bit shy about throwing around dates after confidently predicting that Twitter would be profitable by last November.
Though we don't need a date for this one. We already know what the state-of-the-art is. We've also seen what Apple has elected to showcase. You're going to be ve
A lot of devs have already been working (Score:1)
If they sell enough, someone will make one.
What puzzles me most about Apple Haters, is how they ignore the plain facts sitting right there that everyone knows, including them.
We already know Apple has had AR libraries available for years now for iOS devices, which many developers have built stuff on top of, making new VP development extremely easy.
We already know that since WWDC developers have had developer kits, and labs around the world where they could test apps people have been developing for the devic
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Because it's all speculation until we see a killer app. This isn't about Apple - it's that these things are being built and nobody knows what they'll be good for. You don't have to assume that everyone who has valid criticism is an Apple hater. It can be very simple things that make an idea take off and Apple is often the one behind it. I honestly think that the Safari browser with full CSS support and pinch to zoom are what made smartphones take off. Apple hasn't created that differentiator with this V
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I buy a lot of Apple stuff. I have no interest in these goggle things for even $300, let alone what they're actually charging.
It needs a "native app" for full immersion porn to be even remotely interesting to me.
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Skyrim keeps crashing?
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
That's what it does. I have a very solid system, lots of RAM and VRAM, all the usual patches and fixes... Still gotta lean on that quicksave early and often.
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It seems like existing VR headsets have never really reached anything beyond a niche market. I have my doubts Apple will fare much better. They do at least have the advantage of a relatively small cadre of people who get orgasmic whenever an Apple logo comes into view... but I'm betting once the members of that group have all bought Vision Pros, sales are going to dry up pretty quickly.
Anyway, time will tell. I expect they'll stick with it as long as possible, regardless, since this is apparently seen as Ti
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I have my doubts Apple will fare much better.
Apple rarely innovates. Instead, they take existing ideas and apply much better design. Existing headsets haven't succeeded because they suck, not because the idea is bad.
Vision Pros, sales are going to dry up pretty quickly.
That depends on the pricing. At $3500, it will never be more than a niche. But if they cut the price to $999, they'll sell millions. At $499, they'll sell tens of millions.
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
The form factor of this device is crap like all the other devices, so apple hasn't improved the most important thing.
To overcome this they would have to otherwise deliver an experience so profound that it changed the world, and there is no indication that they have done so.
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The form factor of this device is crap like all the other devices, so apple hasn't improved the most important thing.
Not quite: you can either have the form factor suck or have the specs suck. Here's one making the other tradeoff:
https://www.theverge.com/22819... [theverge.com]
Article is old, but basically either you have huge goggles which suck or a limited field of view with additive graphics only which also sucks. You can go for a half way house with a bigger, heavier device with other display compromises (i..e the hol
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Existing headsets haven't succeeded because they suck, not because the idea is bad.
I disagree with that contention, although I agree that the current headsets do indeed suck (the ones I have tried anyway).
I think the actual idea of a VR headset is only ever going to appeal to a tiny number of people. Maybe you're one, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Re:I'm very curious about this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Taking something that's poorly implemented and making it into a useful, polished product that doesn't suck is certainly innovation.
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
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I guess it depends on whether you're correct in thinking that the reason it hasn't taken off is simply due to poor implementation, or if I'm correct in thinking there simply isn't more than a niche market out there that'll ever be interested in this.
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I have my doubts Apple will fare much better.
Apple rarely innovates. Instead, they take existing ideas and apply much better design. Existing headsets haven't succeeded because they suck, not because the idea is bad.
Vision Pros, sales are going to dry up pretty quickly.
That depends on the pricing. At $3500, it will never be more than a niche. But if they cut the price to $999, they'll sell millions. At $499, they'll sell tens of millions.
This device, or one like it, will never be priced that low. This is Apple, and the headset is a full-blown system, comparable to a laptop. They'll keep it above the 1500 dollar mark for the foreseeable future, even if they create a underperforming, low memory, low throughput version. Otherwise they'll destroy their reputation as luxury computing devices. The reputation that makes their fanbois wet their pants at the merest mention of a new product.
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Apple rarely innovates. Instead, they take existing ideas and apply much better design.
Isn't that innovation?
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Apple rarely innovates. Instead, they take existing ideas and apply much better design.
Isn't that innovation?
Only if it's actually innovative. Only the design a) usually isn't original and b) isn't always better. Apple mostly just simplifies things. They take things away and the followers cheer.
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:3)
The killer app is Xcode imo - assuming it integrates well when projected from a Mac. Imagine having your code and docs spread out around you, all specially navigable. I need to go tweak file A - look up to the right. Check the docs for that file? Oh - theyâ(TM)re right next to it. Need to temporarily reference another file? Iâ(TM)ll just bring it up off to the leftâ¦
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:2)
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That would be appealing, but right now the headset can only implement one (4K) external screen for a separate computer. I get why that's the case -- it has to stream all those pixels all the time -- but it highlights the need for more of a software stack.
And that's not going to be particularly easy: foveated rendering (only showing high resolution where the user is looking) has round-trip latency challenges, whereas app-specific bandwidth optimizations need code on both the headset and the traditional comp
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Do you have Gorilla Arms now? (Score:2)
What about the dereaded gorilla arms. That has kept apple from making a touch screen laptop. Is that not an apple fanbois fear anymore?
First of all, with the VP you do not reach up to control most things, you look at them and make gestures with your hands at your sides to activate controls...
However, for controlling more traditional apps in a 3D space it's not even that different, the VP full supports a normal keyboard and trackpad. So you simply use a keyboard and trackpad you are already using for most a
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I'm just not seeing the point of a VR headset. Most people I know are wanting to reduce time staring at a screen, not have another electronic device that takes their time and attention. Maybe for gaming. Perhaps as a replacement if someone wants a virtual screen for use with their computer, but wearing a headset all day isn't really ergonomic.
VR worlds have been tried and failed. Meta had pretty much an unlimited budget to force the masses to stand in virtual lines (perhaps charge them microtransactions
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Apple has their RDF, so I'm sure people will be buying these devices... but people bought Newtons too, and we all know where that went.
"Get these damn scribble pads out of my office!" *throw*
Re: I'm very curious about this. (Score:1)
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I ordered one.
My planned primary use case is to watch movies while I'm traveling for work. I've been on the road a lot, and hotel TVs aren't fun to use; something with a great screen and sound that's always with me seems ideal. The wife has been talking about getting an RV, and it'd be great for that use case too.
Hopefully there'll also be some good games, and ways to do work, but I don't have a clear vision of how that'll work.
At least (Score:2)
Interesting perspective (Score:3)
Kuo added that even with the device being sold out based on the upper initial production figure of 80,000 units, that only accounts for about 0007 percent of Apple's 1.2 billion active users, which makes the Vision Pro "a very niche product" in the eyes of Cupertino.
And why would "Cupertino" eye the Vision Pro together with all their other products, instead of seeing it as higher priced niche product like the Mac Pro?
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Kuo added that even with the device being sold out based on the upper initial production figure of 80,000 units, that only accounts for about 0007 percent of Apple's 1.2 billion active users, which makes the Vision Pro "a very niche product" in the eyes of Cupertino.
And why would "Cupertino" eye the Vision Pro together with all their other products, instead of seeing it as higher priced niche product like the Mac Pro?
Insert Mulder "I want to believe" image. Because deep-down, they want it to be a market encompassing coupe. They've dropped their marketing smarts. Jobs may have been a serious hardass to work for, but he had the marketing thing down. Create something people want, present it in a way most people understand, and let the money print itself. This version of Apple seems to have the mentality that all they have to do is create the product and magic will take care of the rest. That's not really the way the world
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Not yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not interested in this at present, but... ...if this is a full fledged computer, it may be a laptop killer.
Imagine taking this on trips instead of the Macbook Air you have now. Same storage space. Similar apps. But with large virtual screens and no need for a physical keyboard or mouse.
I'm not buying a first generation. But a year or two from now, I could see this cannibalize Macbook sales.
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> if this is a full fledged computer, it may be a laptop killer.
Wearing a huge dumb helmet on your head will never be a laptop killer.
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...if this is a full fledged computer, it may be a laptop killer.
Look I'm a big proponent of VR headsets. Have been an early adopter and highly recommend everyone get one (maybe not this hyper expensive one, but whatever). One thing they will never be is a "laptop killer". Just like the Slate formfactor didn't kill the laptop or the tablet, or the tablet didn't kill the laptop, and nothing killed the desktop, different devices have different use cases.
I do occasionally use my VR headset as a virtual desktop in combination with some other apps. Yes it's fun, no you will
Apple customers, cash rich!, common sense poor! (Score:2, Flamebait)
Disclaimer As an independent I make money in the Apple environment!
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My iPhone 8 from 2017 is still receiving regular OS patches and security updates. The battery is still at 82% capacity. Find me any Android phone even five years old that still gets updates. I bought the phone for $300 maybe four years ago.
Re: Apple customers, cash rich!, common sense poor (Score:2)
past performance not indicative of future results
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Re: Apple customers, cash rich!, common sense poo (Score:2)
Holy shit... I just glanced at your post history and nearly every single one you've made recently is you going after anybody who says something even slightly negative about Apple. And you said I have religious furor. See why I call you guys Appletologists? You guys are exactly like Scientologists, only for Apple. You even accused me of religious intolerance just for saying anything at all about Apple that you don't like -- dude that's right out of the... David? Is that you?
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What does it have over... (Score:2, Insightful)
Apart from the Apple logo?
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<crickets/>
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You don't need a gaming PC to drive it.
Re: What does it have over... (Score:1)
You don't need a PC for Quests, for example.
And, given the number of games written for PCs, that might have helped sell this Apple shite.
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Battery Pack (Score:2)
Try to find the external battery pack and cable on their product page. It's possible but people used to a Quest are going to be surprised.
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Was it hard for you? It wasn't that hard; the cable is in nearly all the videos and the battery pack is in the "Learn more about the design" section. Also "In the Box".
"The aluminumencased battery can be slipped into a pocket for portable power. It connects using a woven cable."
You want them to put the battery front and center or something? Mounted over a lens?
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Was it hard for you? It wasn't that hard; the cable is in nearly all the videos and the battery pack is in the "Learn more about the design" section. Also "In the Box".
"The aluminumencased battery can be slipped into a pocket for portable power. It connects using a woven cable."
You want them to put the battery front and center or something? Mounted over a lens?
My OCD insists they mount the battery opposite the face-room. Big bulge in front, big weight in back.
Unless it gets hot while in use. Then mount it on the top of the head with a giant radiator. Shining metal mohawk!
OH, DAMN! That's a great band name.
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1/2 a billion dollars (Score:2)
Re: 1/2 a billion dollars (Score:3)
Subtract the amount of money need to build and develop the product and they are 20 billion in the whole.
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Subtract the amount of money need to build and develop the product and they are 20 billion in the whole.
Your math is as bad as your spelling.
Even if Apple spent $1M/day developing these things, that would be 55 years of development.
Dumbass.
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What on earth are you even talking about? Meta spent like $10 billion a year developing Quest VR headsets. If you don't think Apple spent at least $20 billion on R&D for vision pro, you're clueless.
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What makes you think Meta spent that money efficiently?
I am sure the investment was >$1 billion, but $20 billion seems rather excessive. $1 billion is a lot of money. 5000 person-years at $200,000/person (i.e. programmers). A 1000-person team working for 5 years can get a lot of work done.
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What on earth are you even talking about? Meta spent like $10 billion a year developing Quest VR headsets. If you don't think Apple spent at least $20 billion on R&D for vision pro, you're clueless.
To be fair, Meta spent a fortune because all of their hardware and operating system R&D budget was spent on a single device family. (Mind you, Meta got a leg up by being able to use Android as the base OS.) Apple took advantage of their existing tech, which means there's a *lot* of overlap with their other platforms. The Vision Pro is basically some custom video processing hardware plus some extra layers of software/OS on top of iOS (probably), running on an iPad Pro M2 driving two screens, just buil
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And that GUI windowing system for their 'Macintosh' project.
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I dropped $1500 on gambling in the last two weeks.
If I wanted something like a $3500 pair of fancy googles, I might get them. Problem is, i see no reason to want them. I mean, what the hell would I use them for?
Scalper bots? (Score:3)
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I wonder how may are just buying it as a potential investment vehicle.
Knowing now what a first gen iPhone in the box is worth, may drive people to buy this thing and just store it away.
I will be curious to see if this moves the needle of VR adoption at all.
Inflated numbers much? (Score:3)
'I ordered 2 because I can't decide to pick up in store or have it delivered, but I have to cancel one and can't decide.'
'I ordered 3, one for myself and 2 to flip.'
etc. etc.
Plausible but still not great (Score:2)
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But let's go back in time, and compare that "drop in the bucket" to the estimate of 100,000 Oculus sold in the first two weeks [variety.com] for a much cheaper product.
Training 3D VR 360 videos (Score:2)
The 3D VR 360 videos could be useful for such a purpose.
Buyers might be developers/programmers/companies (Score:2)
Impressive (Score:2)
That's an impressive sales figure, and is 180,000 more units sold than is deserved at that price.
Re:They could put an Apple logo on a turd, (Score:5, Funny)
Why you so angry bro? You act like Tim Cook stole your boyfriend.
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Maybe Tim Cook WAS his boyfriend.