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Apple IT

Apple Says RCS Messages Will Have Green Bubbles (9to5mac.com) 182

Apple announced on Thursday its plans to bring RCS support to the iPhone in 2024. But some things are not going to change, sadly. 9to5Mac reports: Since I published my story on the news this morning, there's one thing everyone wants to know: is the blue bubbles vs green bubbles debate coming to an end? I'm happy to say I now have an official answer: nope. RCS will use green bubbles just like SMS. [...] Apple has confirmed to me that blue bubbles will still be used to represent iMessages, while green bubbles will represent RCS messages. The company uses blue bubbles to denote what it believes is the best and most secure way for iPhone users to communicate, which is iMessage.
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Apple Says RCS Messages Will Have Green Bubbles

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  • by MunchMunch ( 670504 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:23AM (#64012101) Homepage
    ...well, not that shocked.
    • by saloomy ( 2817221 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:49AM (#64012211)
      RCS is not end to end encrypted. Blue bubbles let the user know that their message is beyond the prying eyes of the carriers. With recent revelations about how much data those carriers have been selling to advertisers and law enforcement, there is a reason it matters. Making both blue would deny the user the ability to differentiate
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Literally no one but Google cares. This minor interoperability quirk interferes with their advertising business. That is all.

          • by nmb3000 ( 741169 )

            Literally no one but Google cares. This minor interoperability quirk interferes with their advertising business. That is all.

            I wish that were true, and far be it from me to suggest that Apple users are shallow and cliquish, but: Why Apple’s iMessage Is Winning: Teens Dread the Green Text Bubble [archive.ph].

            What's extra pathetic is that Apple itself is partially to blame for the continued absurd sectarianism of "herp derp I use Z brand phone!"

            • Literally no one but Google cares. This minor interoperability quirk interferes with their advertising business. That is all.

              I wish that were true, and far be it from me to suggest that Apple users are shallow and cliquish, but: Why Apple’s iMessage Is Winning: Teens Dread the Green Text Bubble [archive.ph].

              What's extra pathetic is that Apple itself is partially to blame for the continued absurd sectarianism of "herp derp I use Z brand phone!"

              Bullshit.
              People need to police their own behavior.

        • Green bubble crybabies have low self esteem and want to be raised up to the blue bubble stratosphere without paying the entrance fee.

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:01AM (#64012249) Homepage Journal

        RCS is not end to end encrypted.

        RCS can be end-to-end encrypted. Google's implementation is. Apple is choosing to ignore Google's extensions to the standard. Maybe eventually Apple will manage to get the standard changed to support end-to-end encryption as part of the spec, but maybe they won't.

        By insisting that they'll only support end-to-end encryption in RCS if it is part of the official standard, Apple gets to claim that they "support" RCS while continue to shame Android users for another few years.

        I believe the term is "malicious compliance". Apple gets to say that they're "supporting" RCS while still keeping an iron grip on their customer lock-in. This is, of course, clearly not what anyone meant when they asked Apple to support RCS, but it's not about doing what's best for Apple's customers or what's best for people in general; it's about protecting Apple's sales. [rolls eyes]

        • by Malc ( 1751 )

          It certainly looks like they're trying to undermine Google's position and their attacks on Apple. Presumably, there will be an improvement in functionality when messaging between Android and an Apple device, which will leave Google with a technical point that will be lost on most people, or most people won't care. Google won't really get what they wanted.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          RCS is not end to end encrypted. It also doesn't support reactions.

          Google's Jibe protocol, which is based on RCS and Google has a habit of calling RCS, has those things. Google went their own way because they couldn't get the GSMA and carriers to do what they wanted. Shocking.

          • by fred6666 ( 4718031 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:37AM (#64012407)

            Google went their own way because they couldn't get the GSMA and carriers to do what they wanted.

            The problem was to involve the carriers to begin with. Why should carriers have a say in how messages are sent? They should be treated as dumb pipes.
            They have no say in how Email works. They have no say in how Signal/Whatsapp/Facebook Messenger/Whatever works. I can't find any reason why someone would want them involved in a messaging protocol in 2023.

            • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              I agree. RCS is a terrible idea, and Apple was right to oppose implementing it. Google eventually agreed, and Android now defaults to using Google's servers rather than the carriers'.

              Basically, Google wants Apple to give their proprietary chat protocol first class status in iMessage. But then what about WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Telegram, the chat app I wrote last weekend, Instagram, etc? Google seems to have been working on the principle that RCS is SMS, and is therefore special because it's a

              • Apple may have been right to oppose crappy things such as RCS, but they were even wronger designing their own proprietary, single-platform alternative called iMessage.
                No messaging protocol compatible with devices from only one vendor should ever have a right to exist. When it already does, it should be killed by fire, along with anybody who contributed to its development. Mankind would be far better off.

              • Disagreement here.

                Having one messaging system that just one entity controls has long been a problem. For those who don't recall, we had a similar thing going on with AIM.

                Ideally you have an open protocol more like email with pgp. In fact, a protocol to the effect of "markup language inside gzip inside pgp over rcs" would be nice. Have somebody like the W3C maintain it, and individual apps implement however they choose.

                Phone providers then become dumb pipes that have no control over how it is used, you get t

        • Yes RCS CAN use E2EE. The problem is that there must be agreement in the standard if it is to be interoperable. And that agreement rests with all the industry players in the GSMA which includes the phone manufacturers and the carriers. I suspect the reason E2EE has not been added to RCS is getting those companies to agree would be like herding rabid cats. I suppose that is why Apple created iMessage on their own. Since they control the stack, it was far easier than dealing with carriers and other manufactur
          • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            Yes RCS CAN use E2EE. The problem is that there must be agreement in the standard if it is to be interoperable. And that agreement rests with all the industry players in the GSMA which includes the phone manufacturers and the carriers. I suspect the reason E2EE has not been added to RCS is getting those companies to agree would be like herding rabid cats. I suppose that is why Apple created iMessage on their own. Since they control the stack, it was far easier than dealing with carriers and other manufacturers.

            But unless I'm missing something, there's exactly no reason for Apple not to implement Google's end-to-end extensions and using blue bubbles when talking to devices that support those extensions other than spite and lock-in.

            • No reason other than implementing something controlled by rival that is not a standard? By that logic there is no reason why Chrome does not open and save webpages as Microsoft HTML (MHTML) instead of regular HTML. There is no reason why Sun did not adopt MS Java when they added their extensions to Java. Other than those reasons I suppose you could say "no reason".
              • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                No reason other than implementing something controlled by rival that is not a standard?

                When a specification is formalized enough for multiple companies to implement a technology independently, that is pretty much the definition of a standard. Now if Apple wants to insist that some standards body be in charge of that specification, fine, but it doesn't have to be a standards body made up of telcos, and it doesn't have to be part of the RCS specification for that to happen.

                By that logic there is no reason why Chrome does not open and save webpages as Microsoft HTML (MHTML) instead of regular HTML. There is no reason why Sun did not adopt MS Java when they added their extensions to Java. Other than those reasons I suppose you could say "no reason".

                In both of those cases, you're talking about standards that those companies already actively supported and contributed to

                • When a specification is formalized enough for multiple companies to implement a technology independently, that is pretty much the definition of a standard.

                  And what specification are you talking about that multiple companies implement? If you mean, Signal, Google's implementation of it for Messages is not compatible with Signal's implementation. How is that a "standard"?

                  Now if Apple wants to insist that some standards body be in charge of that specification, fine, but it doesn't have to be a standards body made up of telcos, and it doesn't have to be part of the RCS specification for that to happen.

                  RCS is being transported through the telcos networks so they have agree. RCS can be transported through their data network but part of RCS is using the radio network. That is the fundamental nature of RCS.

                  In both of those cases, you're talking about standards that those companies already actively supported and contributed to (and in the case of Sun, owned), where the companies merely chose not to implement someone else's extensions.

                  And how is that different than Apple not choosing to follow Google's implementations?

                  In this case, you're talking about standards that Apple refused to implement for years, and when they finally did implement them, they refused to implement the extensions necessary to make it compatible. These are not really similar situations at all.

                  What

              • No reason other than implementing something controlled by rival that is not a standard?

                Is the Google E2EE setup a closed-source, proprietary implementation? That's the pertinent question.

                If that is the case then, yeah, no reason for Apple to support and many reasons to not.

                If it is an open, published specification then Apple has can still choose not to implement it or specify what about it they think is broken and/or insecure but it's fair to say they are acting in a protectionist manner, which they are free to do but just the same they can be called out on it.

                It's like saying no other compan

                • Is the Google E2EE setup a closed-source, proprietary implementation? That's the pertinent question.

                  Again the issue is that no specifics are tied to any standard when it comes to messaging. The underlying technology might be open source. The implementation is not open.

                  If that is the case then, yeah, no reason for Apple to support and many reasons to not.

                  Since it is not part of RCS, Google can change whenever they want for any reason they want. That is the disadvantage of not using a standard. For example, Google can decide that their next version will not use the Signal protocol and their own.

                  It's like saying no other companies should use WebKit since it was developed by Apple.

                  That is not the same. Apple developed WebKit for their own use and it is still open source. They di

        • I believe the term is "malicious compliance". Apple gets to say that they're "supporting" RCS while still keeping an iron grip on their customer lock-in. This is, of course, clearly not what anyone meant when they asked Apple to support RCS, but it's not about doing what's best for Apple's customers or what's best for people in general; it's about protecting Apple's sales. [rolls eyes]

          You did see the part where Android colors SMS and RCS differently, did you not? Of course Apple is going to color code the different kinds of messages, it tells the users useful information. If a message came by SMS then the user knows that the other user and/or connection is restricted to SMS so using RCS-only features could be lost, that means they should keep things simple or the message might not get through. I'd be a bit upset if Apple removed this feature, not to the point I'd buy a different phone

          • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            I believe the term is "malicious compliance". Apple gets to say that they're "supporting" RCS while still keeping an iron grip on their customer lock-in. This is, of course, clearly not what anyone meant when they asked Apple to support RCS, but it's not about doing what's best for Apple's customers or what's best for people in general; it's about protecting Apple's sales. [rolls eyes]

            You did see the part where Android colors SMS and RCS differently, did you not?

            SMS and RCS are very different from one another. SMS provides zero security, and I do mean zero. As implemented by Android, RCS is quite full-featured, fully supporting reactions, images, video clips, end-to-end encryption, etc. So of course Android gives SMS and RCS different colors.

            The problem is that iOS isn't going to use different colors for SMS and RCS. They're going to treat RCS as if it were equivalent to SMS, which is outright disingenuous, because it is really approximately equivalent to iMess

        • RCS is not end to end encrypted.

          RCS can be end-to-end encrypted. Google's implementation is. Apple is choosing to ignore Google's extensions to the standard. Maybe eventually Apple will manage to get the standard changed to support end-to-end encryption as part of the spec, but maybe they won't.

          By insisting that they'll only support end-to-end encryption in RCS if it is part of the official standard, Apple gets to claim that they "support" RCS while continue to shame Android users for another few years.

          I believe the term is "malicious compliance". Apple gets to say that they're "supporting" RCS while still keeping an iron grip on their customer lock-in. This is, of course, clearly not what anyone meant when they asked Apple to support RCS, but it's not about doing what's best for Apple's customers or what's best for people in general; it's about protecting Apple's sales. [rolls eyes]

          There's no "lock-in"!

          I text with my Android-afflicted friends every single day; just like I do with my Apple-Owning ones.

          The problem lies with the Green color of the Android Users (Petty Jealousy); not the Green color of Chat Bubbles they will never see!

      • If you asked random iPhone owners on the street what green bubbles mean, I highly doubt they're going to say that it means their messages aren't encrypted.
    • ...well, not that shocked.

      But because the bluegreen backgrounds has been cited as ableist by color-blind users, in iOS 18 the green background will be replaced by the derisive "Womp-womp!" sound.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:24AM (#64012107)
    wearing a default skin is seen as being low class. It's hilarious the way we humans do that stupid shit everywhere
  • Drag Tim Cook in front of congress! The scourge of green bubbles demands immediate federal action!

  • by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:30AM (#64012133)

    Wow - like, is it really so hard for a multi-billion$ company, with "thousands of engineers" and with enough money to waste on $6B+ campus, to implement a basic ease-of-use feature that other manufacturers have implemented years ago??

    Seems to me like Apple loves to build in exclusivity (as in: to exclude groups of people, based on tech preferences) into their products!

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • UI uniformity, as much as can be implemented, makes the technology easier for the adopter. They don't need to spend as much time hunting around trying to figure out what the damn thing does. Apple (in the old days at least) was all about trying to make the UI as intuitive to the non-computer literate person who just wants to get the job done. When I used to support home users on the mac, my clients were mostly artists and business people, they were whizzes in law, music, painting, sculpture, that sort of th
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • I have assigned pictures to contacts in my contacts list, hence when my wife (for example) texts me, i get her picture.at the top of the message and to the side of the message in the messages list. ... if you go into contacts and then edit, then 'add photo' you get lots of options for things, you may try looking there. Of course, if you already know all that and it isn't working for you, my apologies.
    • by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

      Wow - like, is it really so hard for a multi-billion$ company, with "thousands of engineers" and with enough money to waste on $6B+ campus, to implement a basic ease-of-use feature that other manufacturers have implemented years ago??

      You realize you're talking about Apple, here? The company that has no calculator app on the ipad and prevents you from installing the iphone version because reasons?

  • Just like snot.

  • It's human nature to discriminate, with so many natural discrimination outlets being outlawed we have to make new ones.
  • by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:51AM (#64012219)

    It's dumb to be concerned what you bubble color is on someone else's phone.

    I just want to be able to leave a friggin over-chatty group txt message thread.

  • by Tarlus ( 1000874 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:52AM (#64012227)

    If blue is meant to indicate that the conversation is via iMessage, then why would anybody expect anything different for RCS?

  • Green versus Blue bubbles has to be the ultimate nerdy holy war.

    • Do nerds care about this? I thought it was only impotent to shallow teenagers. Compared to vi vs. emacs, Star Wars vs. Star Trek, and Mountain Dew vs. your own urine, this whole bubble colour thing just seems kinda lame.
  • by ari_j ( 90255 ) on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:03AM (#64012257)
    Am I the only one old enough to think that RCS is the great-great grand-uncle to git, and that the message protocol theyâ(TM)re talking about now needs a different TLA? Can one of you youngsters help chase these kids off my lawn?
  • ... is seeing red!

  • iMessage is the only platform where they can guarantee privacy. So obviously they will indicate that to the users. This is ultimately the issue of ecosystem, they are a natural monopoly. There is no nefarious intent, it just is what it is.

    Of course by the same measure, that just means government has to do what it has to do.

  • I didnâ(TM)t know that anyone was using RCS these days. I thought everyone had moved on to SVN or Git (never mind CVS, which I was using 20 years ago).

    • by ratbag ( 65209 )

      Since there are approximately four nerds left on this site, I'll slap you on your back and congratulate you loudly for this quality humour. Don't forget Mercurial.

  • I will not be peer pressured into a phone where last time I used it I opened an app and couldnt close it.
  • The pointless judgement will continue. Sneers and bullying for everybody! Why can't those losers "think different" like everybody else?

  • I don't understand all the "ink" devoted to this. I don't know anyone who does not own an iPhone.

  • RCS feels more magenta than green to me.
  • Seriously, about time. If it was a pressure from Google, impending EU ruling, or Tim Cook's mother-in-law I don't care. It's final done.

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