Apple Considered, Rejected Switch To DuckDuckGo From Google (bloomberg.com) 25
Apple held talks with DuckDuckGo to replace Alphabet's Google as the default search engine for the private mode on Apple's Safari browser, but ultimately rejected the idea. From a report: The details of those talks -- and Apple's discussions about buying Microsoft's Bing search engine in 2018 and 2020 -- were revealed late Wednesday in transcripts unsealed by the judge overseeing the US government's antitrust trial against Google. US District Judge Amit Mehta ruled Wednesday that he would unseal the testimony of DuckDuckGo Chief Executive Officer Gabriel Weinberg and Apple executive John Giannandrea, both of whom testified in the Washington trial in closed sessions. Weinberg testified that DuckDuckGo had about 20 meetings and phone calls with Apple executives, including the head of Safari, in 2018 and 2019 about becoming the default search engine for private browsing mode. In private mode, Safari doesn't track websites that a user visits or keep a history of what a person has accessed.
"We were talking about it, I thought they would launch it," Weinberg said, noting that Apple had integrated several of DuckDuckGo's other privacy technologies into Safari. "Multiple times we've gotten integrations all the way through the finish line. Really, almost everything we've pitched except for search." But Giannandrea, who joined Apple as the head of search in 2018, said that to his knowledge Apple hadn't considered switching to DuckDuckGo. In a February 2019 email to other Apple executives, Giannandrea said it was "probably a bad idea" to switch to DuckDuckGo for private browsing in Safari. "The motivating factor for setting DuckDuckGo as the default for private browsing was an assumption" that it would be more private, Giannandrea testified. Because DuckDuckGo relies on Bing for its search information, it also likely provides Microsoft some user information, he said, which led him to believe that DuckDuckGo's "marketing about privacy is somewhat incongruent with the details."
"We were talking about it, I thought they would launch it," Weinberg said, noting that Apple had integrated several of DuckDuckGo's other privacy technologies into Safari. "Multiple times we've gotten integrations all the way through the finish line. Really, almost everything we've pitched except for search." But Giannandrea, who joined Apple as the head of search in 2018, said that to his knowledge Apple hadn't considered switching to DuckDuckGo. In a February 2019 email to other Apple executives, Giannandrea said it was "probably a bad idea" to switch to DuckDuckGo for private browsing in Safari. "The motivating factor for setting DuckDuckGo as the default for private browsing was an assumption" that it would be more private, Giannandrea testified. Because DuckDuckGo relies on Bing for its search information, it also likely provides Microsoft some user information, he said, which led him to believe that DuckDuckGo's "marketing about privacy is somewhat incongruent with the details."
All the government's proven so far.... (Score:2)
.....is that other search engines suck.
Not that Google is stomping other search engines out of existence. They just suck, that's all.
This particular trial is boring. Let's move onto the real meat, which will be Google's Ad business where they did much more shady stuff.
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Re:All the government's proven so far.... (Score:4, Informative)
Nope. Google sucks as well. There's plenty of examples of Google being anticompetitive to push search. Heck they've already been found guilty on prior cases in various jurisdictions.
which will be Google's Ad business where they did much more shady stuff
No. Google's ad business is predicated on its power which is derived from search. Separating the issues only serves to reduce their guilt.
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Yes, I have plenty, they just aren't idiots. I surround myself with people who don't let other's hide behind "opinions" when opinions are wrong.
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Google vs DuckDuckGo in terms of searching: DuckDuckGo just plain sucks. It barely is capable of what you are looking for. It doesn't support advanced searching. The results are poorly ordered.
This isn't about their business practices sucking. This is about whether or not their search products get you the results you want/need. DuckDuckGo fails 9 out of 10 times. DuckDuckGo is a better business with an inferior product. Google has a superior product but is kinda evil.
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Google Search has jumped the shark. Up until about 2 years ago it couldn't be beat, but it's been steadily getting worse.
e.g.: Using quotes to "search for a phrase" is increasingly returning results that don't include "search for a phrase" anywhere on the page (nor even "search" or "phrase" in some cases); results are increasingly polluted with malware laden sites ("install this awesome Google extension!" or "install this awesome PDF plugin!").
Google itself has been increasingly shady, becoming more and mor
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This is a fair point. It has been getting worse. I 'member all the alt options that were competitive back in the day. But for now, the quality gap between #1 and #2 is still just too big.
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I have to agree. I've recently completed a two-year period where I tested first DuckDuckGo and then Bing, giving each about a year. While both were adequate, Google's search results, in part due to their tracking data, provided significantly better results for me.
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>>Not that Google is stomping other search engines out of existence. They just suck, that's all.
Or at least, they suck more than Google does. Search is difficult. It takes a lot of resources to scan and analyze an internet that grows and changes everyday AND is full of sites constantly trying to game the system to get the top search results. If it was easy, there would be lots of competitors doing it.
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If it was easy, there would be lots of competitors doing it.
It's easy enough. Maybe the entrenched providers aren't trying hard enough but I have to imagine there being several viable alternatives elsewhere that would never get off the ground. The problem is that the resources required doesn't scale with the user base - it scales with the data set. So you have to be almost as big as Google even if you have only one user.
Investors would have to be throwing YouTube levels of money at it and hoping they picked the right guys to back.
Whew! (Score:2)
Apple saved my data from being shared with Microsoft by giving it to Google instead. Dodged a bullet to get hit by a truck there.
Sunk costs don't justify a launch (Score:2)
Apple makes more from DuckDuckGo than duckDucuckgo (Score:5, Informative)
Google pays $20 billion annually to Apple to not switch to DuckDuckGo, which is 100x DuckDuckGo revenue.
https://macdailynews.com/2023/... [macdailynews.com]
https://www.zippia.com/duckduc... [zippia.com]
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Nope. Google pays Apple $20B to have Google appear as the top default on the set up page of iOS.
That's right, iit's just the default setting on the set up page. Apple asks you right then and there who you want as your search provider. #1, highlighted and default is Google. #2 is Bing. #3 is DuckDuckGo.
It's not buried at all these days, it's right there when you turn on a new iOS device to set it up. It's
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I mean - it's interesting to say the least since they hardly have a monopoly position but they're doing what Microsoft won't do.
How To Nicely Call Someone a Damned Liar (Score:2)
From TFS:
"The motivating factor for setting DuckDuckGo as the default for private browsing was an assumption" that it would be more private, Giannandrea testified. Because DuckDuckGo relies on Bing for its search information, it also likely provides Microsoft some user information, he said, which led him to believe that DuckDuckGo's "marketing about privacy is somewhat incongruent with the details."
IOW, DDG is maybe not as "private" as it says; and Apple would prefer not to get caught up in DDG's PR Nightmare when they inevitably get exposed for the Liars they are.
Full Disclosure: I have both my iPhone and my Mac to use DDG as the Default.
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FTFA:
"The motivating factor for setting DuckDuckGo as the default for private browsing was an assumption" that it would be more private, Giannandrea testified. Because DuckDuckGo relies on Bing for its search information, it also likely provides Microsoft some user information, he said, which led him to believe that DuckDuckGo's "marketing about privacy is somewhat incongruent with the details."
The PR nightmare is that Apple assumed DuckDuckGo was providing user information to Microsoft. Apple assumed this to be true and did not confirm.
Reading is fundamental.
Found the DDG Shill.
Didn't know they could afford them. DDG must be doing better than I thought. Next they'll be lobbying Congress!
That's a new one on me... (Score:3)
Your marketing claims are "somewhat incongruent with the details"... So the next time I have to call someone out on bullshitting me, that's the phrase I'm using.
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Privat mode - wut? (Score:2)