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EU Apple

EU's Breton Tells Apple CEO To Open Its Ecosystem To Rivals (reuters.com) 91

EU industry chief Thierry Breton on Tuesday called on Apple CEO Tim Cook to open up the iPhone maker's fiercely guarded ecosystem of hardware and software to rivals. From a report: Breton's comments came after meeting Cook in Brussels. "The next job for Apple and other Big Tech, under the DMA (Digital Markets Act) is to open up its gates to competitors," Breton told Reuters. "Be it the electronic wallet, browsers or app stores, consumers using an Apple iPhone should be able to benefit from competitive services by a range of providers," he said.
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EU's Breton Tells Apple CEO To Open Its Ecosystem To Rivals

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  • I guess it would be about time for Tim to tell them to politely fuck off.....

    I have nothing against Android, some of my best friends have Android.

    I like my iPhone and "ecosystem" just fine...it just works and I don't have to fuss over it nearly as much as my Android friends often need to do theirs.

    I don't want a bunch of outside 3rd party things on my phone.....

    Why not leave the market up to the consumer, they have choice...Apple...or, everyone else.

    • by Tensor ( 102132 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @09:13AM (#63878083)

      it's not like anyone is making you install anything.
      It's about having the choice to do so.

      I hope they force all companies to do this. enough with keeping our data hostage.

      • apple store rules are to much vs the google store and now they will be forced to go full open vs just say better rules and no side loading.

      • It's funny how none of us want to be forced to do anything but we're fine if "they" want to force someone else to do something. My data isn't kept hostage. I do whatever I want with it. It's not like anyone is making you use an iPhone either. It's about having the choice to do so right? I choose to use one.

        • by Tensor ( 102132 )

          just in case it was too hard for you to understand, the "they" in my post refers to the EU Lawmakers. that is like Congress, but for the EU.
          the same people you can thank that you can now charge your Macbook, ipad and iphone and airpods with the same charger.

          I don't think you understand how data ownership works.and i don't care enough to explain it in simple terms.

          • just in case it was too hard for you to understand, the "they" in my post refers to the EU Lawmakers. that is like Congress, but for the EU. the same people you can thank that you can now charge your Macbook, ipad and iphone and airpods with the same charger.

            My Macbook is on Magsafe, airpods on Lightning. If I upgrade my iphone I'll have to add USB-C to that. Yes, how ever can I express my humble gratitude to EU making my life "easier".

            • by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:50AM (#63878617) Journal
              y Macbook is on Magsafe, airpods on Lightning. If I upgrade my iphone I'll have to add USB-C to that. Yes, how ever can I express my humble gratitude to EU making my life "easier".

              And whose fault is it for making you purchase all those connectors in the first place rather than using an existing standard?

              Considering you willingly paid through the nose for your stuff, I find difficult to see why you are upset at the EU for trying to prevent this very scenario.
              • There was no suitable existing standard when Apple created lightning.

              • And whose fault is it for making you purchase all those connectors in the first place rather than using an existing standard?

                I'd say it's the people that chose to create USB-C than adopt the existing Lightning port. Lightning came to market before the USB-C spec was even published. There's rumors that Apple heavily influenced what ended up in the USB-C spec, things like being "flippable" and supporting A/V in addition to power and data.

                Considering you willingly paid through the nose for your stuff, I find difficult to see why you are upset at the EU for trying to prevent this very scenario.

                The EU could have specified everyone adopt Lightning, though perhaps Apple might have some reasons to oppose that idea.

                There's other options besides USB-C, one example is I saw some interesting t

                • I lauded the Lightning connector being flippable.
                  I cursed the Lightning connector being weak.

                  While I appreciate USB finally being flippable, I am awaiting enough experience with it to see if it is durable. It seems like it should be, with its protective sleeve, but I imagine some company will find a way to cheap out.

            • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @12:29PM (#63878741) Homepage Journal

              just in case it was too hard for you to understand, the "they" in my post refers to the EU Lawmakers. that is like Congress, but for the EU. the same people you can thank that you can now charge your Macbook, ipad and iphone and airpods with the same charger.

              My Macbook is on Magsafe, airpods on Lightning. If I upgrade my iphone I'll have to add USB-C to that. Yes, how ever can I express my humble gratitude to EU making my life "easier".

              Unless your laptop is ancient, MagSafe is optional, and you can charge by USB-C. This means that when traveling, you can, if desired, use the same charger for both your laptop and new iPhone models. When you're not traveling, you're probably using your laptop at a desk, on a bed, on a couch, or some other random spot, whereas your phone is likely to be plugged in somewhere convenient for grabbing, like the kitchen or a bedside table. So them using different connectors usually doesn't matter in that environment.

              And AirPods using Lightning was a clear example of poor judgment on Apple's part. Apple announced them only about a month before the Mac started transitioning to USB-C (late October, 2016), and they took so long to be delivered that USB-C Macs hit the market before the AirPods did. Anybody with a clue could see even back then that the entire line would eventually be on USB-C, and it is only Apple's ridiculous heel-dragging that has kept the iPhone and AirPods on Lightning for years, even though most of the models of devices that are compatible with AirPods (everything but the iPhone and low-end iPad) have been on USB-C for a while. So that incompatibility is entirely on Apple, and for everybody using it with anything other than a phone, it has been an incompatibility problem for years.

              • I'd believe you on the ubiquity of USB-C if it weren't for so many new products on the market still using micro-B ports for power. I'm still seeing new devices with mini-B, as in the USB 2.0 only piece of shit connector that was abandoned by the USB-IF 15 years ago for being such a piece of shit. The micro-B port isn't much better, but at least there's a "wide" version to get USB 3.x bandwidth even if the power is limited to 15 watts or whatever.

                Apple is still using Lightning on their mouse, keyboard, tra

                • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                  Apple is still using Lightning on their mouse, keyboard, track pad, maybe still their stylus, and I'm probably missing one or three more. Because those products don't need the bandwidth or power of a cell phone, and should avoid the wrath of busybody legislators to rid the world of every connector that isn't USB-C, the Lightning port is likely to hang on there for a while yet.

                  I fully expect all of those devices to have a USB-C port within a year, if not sooner. Most folks expected them to be updated by now.

                  If Apple loses that fight for USB-C then at least the mini-B and micro-B should be on the chopping block too.

                  Those connectors are garbage, and they really should go away, but you have to admit that there's a big difference between some random model of hard drive that might sell 150,000 units worldwide and the 1.5 *billion* iPhone devices in active use.

                  Apple's choice to use Lightning isn't any more an example of poor judgement than so many other similar connectors on the market.

                  Actually, it is. Those other similar connectors aren't being used by companies that removed all the USB-A connectors from their lapt

                  • I fully expect all of those devices to have a USB-C port within a year, if not sooner. Most folks expected them to be updated by now.

                    What motivations do they have to change?

                    The mice, keyboards, and such come with a Lightning cable for pairing, charging, and wired operation so no real issues of "bring your own charger/cable/whatever" like some electronics I've bought, such as a Bluetooth speaker and pair of Bluetooth headphones. If by chance people have their Lightning cable stolen, lost, damaged, whatever then it's certainly an annoyance but then so is having such happen to any power/pairing/data cord on so many other devices. For many

                    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                      I fully expect all of those devices to have a USB-C port within a year, if not sooner. Most folks expected them to be updated by now.

                      What motivations do they have to change?

                      Continuing to manufacture Lightning cables costs money. As the number of people who buys them goes down, the overhead to keep the SKU goes up. In three years, nobody will be buying Lightning cables except as replacements for relatively old devices, and they won't buy many of those, so the economies of scale disappear, and they'll cost quite a lot more to manufacture.

                      Those connectors are garbage, and they really should go away, but you have to admit that there's a big difference between some random model of hard drive that might sell 150,000 units worldwide and the 1.5 *billion* iPhone devices in active use.

                      The "random model of hard drive" isn't so random if in total there's billions of such random things using odd power connectors and creating just as much e-waste and user frustration.

                      But what percentage of those devices are used in semi-permanent installations, where the cables approximately never get replaced? With the e

                    • Continuing to manufacture Lightning cables costs money. As the number of people who buys them goes down, the overhead to keep the SKU goes up. In three years, nobody will be buying Lightning cables except as replacements for relatively old devices, and they won't buy many of those, so the economies of scale disappear, and they'll cost quite a lot more to manufacture.

                      Apple is one of the top ten companies in the world by annual revenue, selling a number of products every year that is difficult to comprehend. If they want to maintain some connector that is unique to their devices then they have the resources all on their own to sustain economy of scale. The Lightning connector is quite a bit simpler than USB-C, for example having 8 pins vs. 24 pins, and so there's certainly a cost savings in producing them over USB-C. If they can save a few pennies per device by using

                    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                      Continuing to manufacture Lightning cables costs money. As the number of people who buys them goes down, the overhead to keep the SKU goes up. In three years, nobody will be buying Lightning cables except as replacements for relatively old devices, and they won't buy many of those, so the economies of scale disappear, and they'll cost quite a lot more to manufacture.

                      Apple is one of the top ten companies in the world by annual revenue, selling a number of products every year that is difficult to comprehend. If they want to maintain some connector that is unique to their devices then they have the resources all on their own to sustain economy of scale.

                      Economies of scale are strictly a volume thing, not a resource thing. There's no commonality between their Lightning cables and their USB-C cables, with the exception of the USB-C to Lightning cable having a USB-C connector. They're made with different materials from one end to the other.

                      Apple could absolutely afford to keep making them, but to what end?

                      Even for AirPods, if you assume that there have been maybe 250 million sold in total, and that probably no more than 150 million still work, and assume th

                    • Apple could absolutely afford to keep making them, but to what end?

                      I already answered that, to save money. The Lightning connector is simpler to produce and therefore cheaper. This is the same reason why so many manufacturers choose micro-B or barrel connectors for power instead of USB-C, it costs less.

                      The rest of your comment is mostly the same going over the same ground covered already.

        • by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

          There is no choice. It's either iPhone or Android. Both of which are locked and don't work well together. As time goes by it's getting harder to keep to standards since each player does as they please. It's gotten to the point that it's calls or access point for work. The phones are delegated to recreation and privacy invasion.

      • Yeah. Having more personal data out to be stolen is exactly what everyone has been clamoring for /s.

        You must work for one of the data hoardhouses as a flunky.

      • by mccalli ( 323026 )
        No-one's forcing someone to buy Apple either. That's the point - the choice to have what this politician is asking for already exists. Simply buy something that isn't Apple and which already operates that way.

        I buy into the Apple iOS ecosystem because I want walled garden. That's a valid choice for me to make, and it looks like a politician thinks I should have that choice removed from me.

        There are already alternatives I could choose that are more 'open', and if other people prefer those then they are
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by test321 ( 8891681 )

          No-one's forcing someone to buy Apple either.

          Apple became a bigger actor (~10% market share in Europe) and now additional rules apply which are now progressively called "gatekeepers".

          why should I be forced to change? Different choices, different people.

          Nothing will change for you. Apple will not be obliged to add third party software or app stores on the phone. The default experience will be the same as of today. Just like when you buy an Android phone. They don't come Aptoide, APKPure or F-droid.

          The bigger data traps are the walled online universes.

          Yes and they solved that last year. in a few months, things like WhatsApp have will be forced months into interoperability.

          I also think these things are normally driven to Apple because politicians can physically see a phone.

          Yo

          • Most of those big jobs in France are political appointments based on who you know, not how good you are. His poor strategy at Atos is blamed with bringing what was one of the world's top 20 digital services companies to the edge of bankruptcy.

            • He was awarded Harvard awards for best performing CEO three times (before Atos) and taught economy at Harvard, and none of that is due to his connections in France. I was replying to a message saying the decision was made because "politicians can see a phone". This is particularly wrong someone like him, electrical engineer by training, who has led large companies in the field of technology before moving to politics.

        • No-one's forcing someone to buy Apple either. That's the point - the choice to have what this politician is asking for already exists. Simply buy something that isn't Apple and which already operates that way.

          I buy into the Apple iOS ecosystem because I want walled garden. That's a valid choice for me to make, and it looks like a politician thinks I should have that choice removed from me.

          There are already alternatives I could choose that are more 'open', and if other people prefer those then they are perfectly valid choices for them to make. I'm not trying to persuade or force them to change, why should I be forced to change? Different choices, different people.

          I also think these things are normally driven to Apple because politicians can physically see a phone. The bigger data traps are the walled online universes. Even there I'm not asking for people to be forced out of them, but they tend to escape as much attention in discussions like this and my opinion is that this is because they're not physical things that can be held by the politician in question.

          This.

          Every. Damn. Word.

    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @09:14AM (#63878089)

      Then what's your problem, nobody says you can't continue buying from Apple. And nobody said that Apple MUST install 3rd party things on your phone.

      • Then what's your problem, nobody says you can't continue buying from Apple. And nobody said that Apple MUST install 3rd party things on your phone.

        That could very well be the next step. Opening up is one thing, but IMHO requiring the inclusion of 3rd party apps and not allowing the manufacturer to elect which, if any, they want to include, would be over reach.

        • If you buy an Apple iPhone from Apple, why would anyone force Apple or you to install something on it? Apple might be forced to allow you to install it, and yes, various mobile providers may pre-install software so they can offer you that phone cheaper because the rest of the bill is footed by whoever preloads their crapware on it, but I frankly see no reason why anyone could force Apple to preinstall software on the phone that they don't consider "good".

          I.e. what you already get.

          • If you buy an Apple iPhone from Apple, why would anyone force Apple or you to install something on it? Apple might be forced to allow you to install it, and yes, various mobile providers may pre-install software so they can offer you that phone cheaper because the rest of the bill is footed by whoever preloads their crapware on it, but I frankly see no reason why anyone could force Apple to preinstall software on the phone that they don't consider "good".

            I.e. what you already get.

            I was referring to the EU deciding Apple and others had to ship with 3rd party apps installed, such as alternate browsers. They haven't gone there, yet, but who knows what the boffins will decide ?

            • Even during the high times of the MS antitrust suits, the only thing MS had to provide was the OPTION to install third party browsers. They had to give the user the choice between various browsers (a choice that is, by the way, curiously absent again now).

              • Even during the high times of the MS antitrust suits, the only thing MS had to provide was the OPTION to install third party browsers. They had to give the user the choice between various browsers (a choice that is, by the way, curiously absent again now).

                Yea, I was just speculating on where the whole gatekeeper argument will go in the EU. In the end, I suspect it will have less of an impact than most people suspect and Apple will have a walled garden with one small guarded gate.

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        Then what's your problem, nobody says you can't continue buying from Apple. And nobody said that Apple MUST install 3rd party things on your phone.

        And this article is just what an EU commissioner said about what he thinks would be best for the EU and it's constituents. Thus far, no EU law has been proposed, let alone voted on by the EU parliament or passed.

        I'm pretty sure Thierry Breton is smart enough to know it's not enforceable, especially as even EU member states treat most EU directives as suggestions.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      " I don't have to fuss over it nearly as much as my Android friends often need to do theirs."

      I've never had to "fuss" over my samsung android phone. It just works plus it cost a third of what an equivalent 5G iphone would cost with the same functionality. You might think an apple logo is worth a 200% markup but most people don't.

      • You might think an apple logo is worth a 200% markup but most people don't.

        Then they don't have to buy an iPhone now do they? Also, anyone who does even a second's worth of due diligence knows that Apple is a walled garden. It's not like that fact hasn't been talked to death in the last 16 years.

        I don't see where the EU's coming form here, aside from trying to take a chunk out of a behemoth "American" company. Android's market share on the whole still dwarfs iOS's. This isn't about competition or consumer freedom.

        And I say that as a very happy Pixel 6 owner, who'd never even consi

        • I don't see where the EU's coming form here,

          It's a bit of a say to stretch to say that Android "dwarfs" Apple. Android has about 2x the share of phones but very much under 1x of the revenue. When it comes to app revenue, Apple is the 800lb gorilla.

          Question is: does this mean Apple has a distorting effect on the market. If Apple say "jump" is the choice "go bust" or say "how high?". If the answer is affirmative, then that's why the EU want to make them open up. Having a company have a distorting effect on th

          • I will assert that the hardware and software environment between Apple and premium Android devices are comparable, at least for the majority of smart phone users. If Android has double the market, it would appear that the majority of Apple users are deliberately picking the Apple devices because the walled garden is not a deciding factor. If they are willing to spend more money in the Apple app and services market when they can move to an Android device, why should the government intervene? Is the app an
            • If Android has double the market, it would appear that the majority of Apple users are deliberately picking the Apple devices because the walled garden is not a deciding factor.

              Nonetheless this gives them a massively dominant position in the market, which they can and do abuse.

              If they are willing to spend more money in the Apple app and services market when they can move to an Android device, why should the government intervene?

              Because one of the purposes of the government is to make sure that markets are s

          • Question is: does this mean Apple has a distorting effect on the market. If Apple say "jump" is the choice "go bust" or say "how high?". If the answer is affirmative, then that's why the EU want to make them open up. Having a company have a distorting effect on the market is generally bad for competition and consumer freedom.

            I'd posit the answer is no.

            Android surpassed iPhone OS/iOS's marketshare in 2012. [statista.com] It's been holding at over 70% of market share since 16Q4. While it's true that Apple's app revenue is much higher than Android's, I don't think that means that they can "dictate terms," so to speak. Android holds a commanding portion of the market; an app dev would have to make a very difficult decision if Apple ever went the route of telling them they weren't allowed to develop for Android anymore, for example.

            The only market

            • The only market distortion I see is the perception of iPhones as a marker of social status, [digitaldaze.io] i.e. Androids are low quality, for people who can't afford a "proper" iPhone.

              I don't think "which phone you use" has been any sort of real status symbol for decades now.

              It's pretty much a commodity product these days.

              • Yes. Once phones grew to six inches, people said "that's long enough", and measuring and comparing each other's devices became moot. The main physical improvement since then is stiffening the devices for longevity and serviceability.

            • I'd posit the answer is no.

              I guess this is what is ultimately up for debate.

              The smartphone market is essentially a duopoly. That itself is large enough to distort the market, and it's clear that capitalistic competition is not doing a very good job. The two major players have just somehow settled on exactly the same commission. And it's very high.

              While it's true that Apple's app revenue is much higher than Android's, I don't think that means that they can "dictate terms," so to speak.

              They can to app develop

          • Perhaps that is because the Android ecosystem is bad business in general.

            Having to target and compile and test hundreds of systems, some with entirely different processor architectures vs compiling a single binary that works transparently on all past and future devices is a problem not with Apple, but with Google.

            Besides that, the EU does not have a valid alternative for this so-called problem either, unless theyâ(TM)re trying to prop up an OS from Nokia or China. Anything you take from Apple will go t

            • Yeah not gonna defend the android ecosystem...

              Having to target and compile and test hundreds of systems, some with entirely different processor architectures vs compiling a single binary that works transparently on all past and future devices is a problem not with Apple, but with Google.

              The compiling isn't that bad (especially for normal app dev), the testing can be a massive ball ache especially if you're doing more esoteric things.

              On the other hand, the law isn't generally concerned with why someone has a

        • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @03:07PM (#63879183) Homepage Journal

          You might think an apple logo is worth a 200% markup but most people don't.

          Then they don't have to buy an iPhone now do they? Also, anyone who does even a second's worth of due diligence knows that Apple is a walled garden.

          That's not how the law works. If I build a car and advertise that one in ten will explode killing the occupant, anyone who does even a second's worth of due diligence knows that the car may explode, but that doesn't keep me from running afoul of product liability law.

          The walled garden is a concern from a competition perspective at multiple levels.

          • First-party app competition: Software written by Apple is not on a level playing field. Apple isn't going to reject their own Mail app from being submitted to the app store (because it is preinstalled and doesn't go through the store at all), whereas competing mail apps get all sorts of scrutiny. Apple can ship their own WebKit engine, but Google can't ship V8 and Firefox can't ship SpiderMonkey, because different rules apply to third-party apps than first-party. And so on.
          • First-party streaming service competition: Apple's own streaming music and TV service don't pay a 30% (or even 15%) premium for taking payments through Apple, but third-party streaming services do if they want to use Apple's payment system, based on the delusional belief that Apple's store somehow was the reason people discovered their app and thus deserves a rather large cut of their revenue forever and ever (as if anyone can actually discover anything in the iOS App Store anymore). And if they don't use Apple's payment system, they're not allowed to provide even so much as a link to their own website so that people can pay them directly.
          • In-app payment service competition: No third-party payment processor can compete against Apple, because competition is not allowed. Almost 100% of the mobile in-app payments market is held by Apple and Google; Google allows third-party stores and side loading, which at least makes competition possible. Apple does not, which makes competition on that platform impossible, which seriously distorts that potential market.
          • Censorship: Because side loading is not possible, content that is not allowed in Apple's store for content reasons (porn, alt-right sites, etc.) is limited in its ability to reach users on the iOS platform, which grossly distorts the markets for those goods and services.

          You don't have to have a monopoly for your market influence to have an unlawfully large impact on the market for other goods.

          I say this as someone who has an iPhone 6s and a Pixel 6 Pro, with an iPhone 15 Pro coming soon, now that Apple finally started selling a device with a standard port again so that I can move headphones freely from my laptop to my phone and back. And I'm overjoyed that the EU finally forced them to do the right thing in that regard. I'll be even more overjoyed if they crack open the walled garden, because as much as I like Apple's hardware and operating system, I don't like the way the App Store limits competition, limits freedom of expression, etc.

          • and due to rules even having an flag set = side loading on should not be allowed unless apples own store drops some of the rules.
            Your bank app should not be able to block your IOS device just for having.
            Full firefox or full chrome installed
            non apple streaming app
            apps blocked for content reasons (porn, alt-right sites, etc.) in the apple store.

            Now maybe have an ROOTED flag but not just an non apple store app installed flag.

      • " I don't have to fuss over it nearly as much as my Android friends often need to do theirs."

        I've never had to "fuss" over my samsung android phone. It just works plus it cost a third of what an equivalent 5G iphone would cost with the same functionality. You might think an apple logo is worth a 200% markup but most people don't.

        Lot's of llllooooonnngggg stretches in your argument here. The iPhone doesn't have a malware issue like Android does. Just ask anyone who does IT support how often an Android device comes in from a non-techincal user stuffed with it. And the markup is more like 20%. Not 200%. At least if you're talking spec for spec. The new iPhone is $999. I dare you find a spec for spec Android for $330 ($330+200%=$990).

        • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          20%? ROTFL!

          Whatever. Clearly you've drunk the kool aid by the gallon. Check out the price of samsung phones and the equivalent iphone. I got mine for £200 , the nearest equivalent iphone with 5G and a similar sized screen is £700. So actually its more like 3.5 times.

      • I've never had to "fuss" over my samsung android phone. It just works plus it cost a third of what an equivalent 5G iphone would cost with the same functionality. You might think an apple logo is worth a 200% markup but most people don't.

        I'm not wealthy, but I do have disposable income.

        A couple times or so a year, I drop $2-$3K on toys I save up for and want....

        I generally keep my phones for about 6+ years it seems and dropping $1200 or so on a phone is no big deal for me.

        I have a few things in the Appl

        • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          And cars or houses dwarf the price of your cameras. Whats your point? Just because you decided to buy something doesn't mean its good value for most people. I'd sooner burn money on holidays rather that some dumb gadget but each to their own.

    • GTFO of here. I cant believe this tripe is on Slashdot.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      I feel otherwise. The things iOS and Mac do are now part of everyday basic life. It’s like a digital kingdom. This the platform owners acts like a government and imposes tax and whatever restriction while stifling competition. It is so large now that 1/4 or more of the world lives with Apple products. Switching is equivalent to moving to another country, given the million things involved, from password management to payment to what app will one lose (all actually), and a list of other hundred things.

      • >I feel otherwise. The things iOS and Mac do are now part of everyday basic life. Itâ(TM)s like a digital kingdom. This the platform owners acts like a government and imposes tax and whatever restriction while stifling competition. It is so large now that 1/4 or more of the world lives with Apple products.

        Source? The last figure I saw was 1.65 billion active devices, which would approach one in five, assuming each of those devices was owned by a single person. That is plainly not the case as people

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @09:13AM (#63878087)

    Like they undermined the "right to repair", abusing the DMCA with "copyright" chips that serve no other purpose than to ensure you have to buy their overpriced parts, expensive enough that you could as well just buy a new model.

    • Like they undermined the "right to repair", abusing the DMCA with "copyright" chips that serve no other purpose than to ensure you have to buy their overpriced parts, expensive enough that you could as well just buy a new model.

      I have no doubt it won't be as easy as people think to side load. Sandboxing, requiring users give permission for apps to load, access data, etc., blocking side loading on phones sold outside of the EU are some ways I could think of off the top of my head. As for the App Store, Apple could change teh pricing structure so apps with ways to bypass IAPs get charged for d/ls, hosting, etc. and only truly "free" apps get access for free. Personally, I don't see how a 3rd party App Store can offer th e breadth

      • I'm fairly sure that sideloading will eventually be demanded. Apple will of course fight it tooth and nail and spread all sorts of FUD concerning warranty and lifetime of the product if you dare to escape the walled garden.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      They can do plenty of things. They can have a flag set that applications can check to see if the phone allows sideloading. If it does, then "secure things" might get restricted (defined by the application developer.

      For example, a banking app might look at the flag and decide that the phone might be compromised and to prevent the user from losing their money, have it deny access to online banking.

      To prevent problems, disabling sideloading requires reformatting the entire phone to get rid of any remnants that

  • So what we'd like to do is force you to remove everything that makes you unique, burden your system with compatibility, and make you look like us.
  • Ridiculous (Score:1, Flamebait)

    Think about how ludicrous this is. I'll use a car example.
    Imagine if the EU told VW to open up their ecosystem so that anyone else can use their chassis to build their own car. As if it isn't fair that Ford (or I guess any company at all) can't just build a car on the Golf platform and us an Audi engine if they want to.
    I guess when you've fully accepted that nationalizing any industry you want is ok, you start thinking like this.
    • Re:Ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dontbemad ( 2683011 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @10:46AM (#63878339)
      This is such a hysterically bad example that I'm honestly not sure a rebuttal would make sense to you. No one is telling Apple to "open up the source code" or "make CAD files for its phones readily available". What they ARE telling Apple to do is to stop arbitrarily forbidding people with those phones from installing whatever software they'd like on them. If you wanted to make a car analogy that MIGHT make sense, this is like a car manufacturer telling you (the owner) exactly where or how many miles you can drive the car and at what times of the day. The problem here is that the company is dictating how you USE the device, not whether or not competitors have access to trade secrets.

      Seriously, the inane "arguments" posted to this site seem to make less and less sense every passing year.
      • If you wanted to make a car analogy that MIGHT make sense, this is like a car manufacturer telling you (the owner) exactly where or how many miles you can drive the car and at what times of the day.

        While I agree with you that the OP's example was bad, a better car analogy is what's actually happening with GM [macrumors.com] telling owners they must use the car's built-in infotainment software instead of either Apple's CarPlay or Android Auto software. It would be nice if GM were compelled to open-up their cars' infotainm

    • Re:Ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)

      by organgtool ( 966989 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:54AM (#63878629)
      You analogy is completely flawed. It would be more like VW preventing anyone from installing batteries, tires, oil, spark plugs, air filters, etc. from a third party. In addition to that, VW would refuse to replace any of those parts without replacing the entire drivetrain. And VW prevents the manufacturers of those parts from selling them to anyone else. And if you did manage to get a genuine part, it wouldn't work because VW requires it to be "paired" or "calibrated" with tools that only they own. And then the evil government comes in and tries to put an end to these predatory practices and sycophantic fanboys throw a tantrum because their favorite company is being required to play fairly.

      In a way, I kind of don't care how badly Apple screws their own customers because many of those customers can't seem to get enough of it. The problem is that other companies see Apple getting away with it and before you know it, the whole industry is pulling this shit.
  • Apple owners- you can still be just fine in your little walled garden if you want. This is just giving the *option* to install other things. Hell, Apple will probably have a ecosystem wide toggle that says "don't allow other app stores, etc." if you want. Imagine being so up your own ass that you want to tell everyone else they can't have anything else on their iphones because it disturbs you personally.
    • I donâ(TM)t believe that. I think you will ultimately be forced to install several app stores because big companies like Amazon and Google will pull their apps and make you install their App Store to get them. No doubt others like Epic, Netflix and Spotify will try something as well.
    • That option is another abuse path for attackers. This makes my life harder. Now i have to explain to my mom why you canâ(TM)t follow these instructions to install 3rd party apps so she doesnâ(TM)t get malware. Might as well get her on windows too

    • This gives other companies the *option* to force us to sideload an app like Epic is doing... it gives the end user the *option* to do jack squat.
  • I remember some horse registry (or maybe dogs, whichever is not important) that was taken to court because they refused to put certain kinds of horses in their registry of "purebred" horses. The registry lost the case and now had to offer "purebred" status to horses that most people in the horse breeding community didn't believe met the standard of "purebred". This didn't seem like much of a victory to me because everyone that looks in the registry will be able to pick out the horses that got there becaus

  • I suppose the price of building a successful ecosystem is that one day the EU will force you to open it up and share it with the same competitors who tried and failed or simply sat on their laurels and didn't bother to even try to build their own successful ecosystem.

    The reward for failure to build your own successful ecosystem is that one day the EU will force your competitors who succeed to open up their own successful ecosystems and share it with you, without having to take any risks of your own in marke

Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.

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