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EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones (macrumors.com) 81

Posted by msmash from the no-shortcuts dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: Last year, the EU passed legislation that will require the iPhone and many other devices with wired charging to be equipped with a USB-C port in order to be sold in the region. Apple has until December 28, 2024 to adhere to the law, but the switch from Lightning to USB-C is expected to happen with iPhone 15 models later this year. It was rumored in February that Apple may be planning to limit charging speeds and other functionality of USB-C cables that are not certified under its "Made for iPhone" program. Like the Lightning port on existing iPhones, a small chip inside the USB-C port on iPhone 15 models would confirm the authenticity of the USB-C cable connected. "I believe Apple will optimize the fast charging performance of MFi-certified chargers for the iPhone 15," Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said in March.

In response to this rumor, European Commissioner Thierry Breton has sent Apple a letter warning the company that limiting the functionality of USB-C cables would not be permitted and would prevent iPhones from being sold in the EU when the law goes into effect, according to German newspaper Die Zeit. The letter was obtained by German press agency DPA, and the report says the EU also warned Apple during a meeting in mid-March.
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EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones More

EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones

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  • Don't do stupid! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05, 2023 @12:55PM (#63499650)

    I appreciate a politician that pre-emptively tells a company 'Don't Do Stupid!'

    In the US, everyone would wait until the product was delivered, then a manure pile of complaints, then a congresscritter or two has to have a blue-ribbon-fact-finding-committee setup, then the DOJ, consumer agencies, etc. to finally say - You Did Stupid! We're going to fine you $10 and parking costs.

    • Yep. The only reason cell phone companies standardized on micro usb was because the EU made them. https://www.engadget.com/2010-... [engadget.com]

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        Europe understands how important standards are to consumers and competition.

        I do think Apple should be allowed to display a warning if a non-verified brand is plugged in, though. If apple checks say the top 10 brands of cables, then it probably will not cause significant problems for consumers. Apple wants to sell quality, and so I can see how they want to limit riff-raff cables. A gentle warning message can do that.

        • Re:Don't do stupid! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Dictator For Life ( 8829 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @01:59PM (#63499842) Homepage
          Apple does not care about cable quality (as their own worthless cables exemplify). They care about money.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            Apple does not care about cable quality (as their own worthless cables exemplify). They care about money.

            This. The robustness of Apple's Lightning cables leaves much to be desired. And prior to USB-C, the robustness of their MagSafe charger cables was also awful. At least now you can replace only the cable instead of the whole eighty-dollar brick.

            • prior to USB-C, the robustness of their MagSafe charger cables was also awful. At least now you can replace only the cable instead of the whole eighty-dollar brick.

              My cat can short the two wires inside a magsafe cable with a single chomp and barely leave a mark. It cost me a fortune before I figured out what was happening.

              The plastic insulator that separates positive from negative inside the cable is garbage,

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                prior to USB-C, the robustness of their MagSafe charger cables was also awful. At least now you can replace only the cable instead of the whole eighty-dollar brick.

                My cat can short the two wires inside a magsafe cable with a single chomp and barely leave a mark. It cost me a fortune before I figured out what was happening.

                The plastic insulator that separates positive from negative inside the cable is garbage,

                I assume you mean the old ones that were part of the PSU, and not the new, cloth-coated ones?

                For the old ones, I'm pretty sure my problem involved shorts internally causing overheating, which over time discolored the insulation and made it fall off, etc. I had the same problem with the iBook G3 power supplies and the Yo-Yo G3 Series power supplies before that. The black G3 Series power supplies just ended up snapping outright between the plug and the ferrite bead. Before that, the PowerBook 1xx series po

                • My cat can short the two wires inside a magsafe cable with a single chomp and barely leave a mark.

                  I assume you mean the old ones that were part of the PSU, and not the new, cloth-coated ones?

                  Yep.

          • ^This exactly

          • Apple does not care about cable quality (as their own worthless cables exemplify). They care about money.

            As opposed to what other company?

      • Yep. The only reason cell phone companies standardized on micro usb was because the EU made them.

        That doesn't seem likely because I recall that being commonplace all the way back in 2008. Literally every android phone I've ever owned has been USB, and a few flip phones before then (though mini-USB for them) meanwhile Apple still to this date hasn't made a single USB based phone.

        You're likely full of shit on this one as the article you linked doesn't even claim that.

      • Yep. The only reason cell phone companies standardized on micro usb was because the EU made them. https://www.engadget.com/2010-... [engadget.com]

        And oh, what a wonderful connector to mandate, too! [/s]

        • They mandated an industry standard. It is then up to the industry to come up with a decent standard.

          • They mandated an industry standard. It is then up to the industry to come up with a decent standard.

            At least it moved USB-C along.

            But, you do realize, of course, that Apple originally came up with Lightning as a response (of revulsion) to the EU's earlier sabre rattlings regarding mandating the abominable microUSB connector, right?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      This is the USB jungle. Different specs, sizes, capability. Anywhere from 5 to 20. If you buy a cheap cable is it USB or just a look alike.

      I think it is valid to ask if the Apple standard is just a gimmick or a necessary step to level the USB jungle. I am all for USB on all mobile devices, including laptops no more proprietary charging bricks. But we do need reliable standards.

      • The one thing that is good about cables being part of Apples MFi spec is that they would be up to some quality level. USB-C cables are all over the place. Be it crappy cables that only transfer power and can't do power negotiation, cables which allow data, cables which allow higher rates of charge, all the way to Thunderbolt rated cables which work both with USB-C and Thunderbolt with all the proper signaling and wire quality.

        Apple would be doing all of us a favor if the MFi rated USB C cables were a guar

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

          This would be a good take if Apple automatically meant quality products. Unfortunately, Apple products are almost always on the lower side of quality and almost always useless outside their ecosystem.

          Are USB-C cables all over the place? Yes. Because not all devices need (or can even handle) 25A quick charging. Some devices don't need power transfer at all. Some devices only need power and have no data. So, it makes complete sense that there are lot of different cables out there - especially when devices usu

          • So, it makes complete sense that there are lot of different cables out there

            It does not... most laymen assume that if the plug fits in the hole, it will do the job. Different capabilities on cables with the exact same connector causes all sorts of issues.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

              Different capabilities on cables with the exact same connector causes all sorts of issues.

              Outside of the end-user possibly being mildly inconvenienced and annoyed, and especially when talking about USB-C, there are no issues caused by the cable itself. The power source on the other end is a different issue.

              You plug a power only cable in between devices you want to transfer data between? Data doesn't transfer, nothing bad happens.
              You plug a data only cable into a device to transfer power? Device doesn't charge, nothing bad happens.

              However,
              You plug a low-power power device that charges between 2A-

            • So, it makes complete sense that there are lot of different cables out there

              It does not... most laymen assume that if the plug fits in the hole, it will do the job. Different capabilities on cables with the exact same connector causes all sorts of issues.

              These are the same people who assume all extension cords are the same because the end plugs are the same, and then wonder why there was an electrical fire. There are many people who know better and realize that different cables are made for different use cases.

              For extension cords, the Apple solution would be a single Apple-certified cord that always works, is 10x the price, and doesn't work with non-Apple devices. The Apple solution is to pay Apple more money and forget about buying non-Apple devices.

              • Well you are half right. Using the wrong extension cord, one that can't handle the current, is a big problem and does require knowledge to avoid.

                But this is a perfect example of "broken by design". At the systems level, any such fires are caused precisely because it was allowed by certification bodies to allow cables of different power capacities to share the same connector. That is a systemic design error with predictable dangerous consequences.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

                  Yeah, but people are lazy and wouldn't accept it if there were 20 different connectors based on the rating of the extension cord. Hell, we already have regular 120v and then the appliance 240v. If you added a bunch of steps in-between with different connectors, people would get pissed.

    • It would be the same. Apple would get the warninf, and they would take stock- have they bribed enough politicians? They will end up in court, what do the lawyers say?

      Now, it could very well be that in the USA the corruption has the day, and in the EU the bureaucrat is victorious- but the actual analysis will he the same, Apple may just come to a different conclusion in the EU case.

    • I appreciate a politician that pre-emptively tells a company 'Don't Do Stupid!'

      In the US, everyone would wait until the product was delivered, then a manure pile of complaints, then a congresscritter or two has to have a blue-ribbon-fact-finding-committee setup, then the DOJ, consumer agencies, etc. to finally say - You Did Stupid! We're going to fine you $10 and parking costs.

      Possibly, but I'm very nervous about politicians micromanaging technical decisions.

      It could very well be that this is a certification cash grab on the part of Apple.

      It could also be that in order to get maximum fast charging the phone needs to trust the cable a bit, and if the cable is untrustworthy attempting that degree of fast charging could damage the phone or battery.

      I don't know which scenario is closer to the truth, does the EU commissioner? I'm not convinced.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kqs ( 1038910 )

        In this case, it's a cash grab plus an obsessive need to control.

        The old (pre usb-c) cables were a mess. usb-c has very specific requirements. In the first few years of usb-c a lot of companies ignored those requirements (just like they ignored the pre usb-c requirements). But that caused problems (you do NOT want to send 20V over a cable designed for 5V) and the cable-makers got better. Nowadays even cheap cables follow the specs, so you can query the cable and send a safe amount of power down it (thou

    • ....In the US, everyone would wait until the product was delivered....have a blue-ribbon-fact-finding-committee setup, then the DOJ, consumer agencies, etc. to finally say - You Did Stupid! We're going to fine you $10 and parking costs.

      In the US, politicians would propose legislation to make the company do the right thing, while waiting for bribes from said company. Once the bribes have been paid, then the legislation would quietly die. Bribery of politicians is perfectly legal in Amerika, SCOTUS made it legal.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Apple won't limit the charge current based on licensing. They don't already - if you look at all the knockoff lightning cables out there.

      There's nothing in a USB to lightning cable - it's just a dead cable which is why all the knockoffs exist.

      However, if you want to do something "interesting" then yes, stuff needs to be licensed. Things like USB, or JTAG, or serial debug, etc. Those need special chips in them to tell the controller what to connect to the port.

      And MFi isn't going away, it's for accessories,

  • Like My Printer (Score:4, Interesting)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @01:19PM (#63499736) Homepage Journal

    They should make it like my printer. I have a Dell laser printer, and it wants Dell-branded toner cartridges, of course, which have some chip in them that talks to the printer. I can still buy non-Dell cartridges, though. The printer initially rejects them, but I can go into the printer's settings and tell it to allow non-Dell toner cartridges, and then it works great. It drops the feature of telling you how much toner is left (which I suppose is fair), but prints fine until it runs out (which it still detects).

    So it's reasonable to detect non-certified components, but let the user read an appropriate warning, and then remember that it's been overridden. Maybe show a small status icon for non-certified cables or whatever, but don't block them outright.

    • Apple aren't proposing to reject USB cables outright, just to partially stop them working. Apple think that if you haven't payed them a licence fee for a cable from a company that they've made a deal with, then they won't let the cable work to its full capabilities.

      • Apple aren't proposing to reject USB cables outright, just to partially stop them working. Apple think that if you haven't payed them a licence fee for a cable from a company that they've made a deal with, then they won't let the cable work to its full capabilities.

        First of all, tis is a response to rumor. The EU has gone full /. with it. Apple could very well have speeds beyond the PD spec required by the regulation and as long as they provide the charging required in the regulation adding a chip to cable charging beyond the spec is allowed by the regulation. It could also be a data only function which is not covered by the regulation.

        • PD goes all the way up to 200 watts. What the fuck would Apple do with more than 200 watts on a phone?

          • PD goes all the way up to 200 watts. What the fuck would Apple do with more than 200 watts on a phone?

            Time Travel?

            • Either way, assuming Apple could even max out a 200 watt power draw, putting that much energy into that little battery that quickly would likely make it hot enough to start a fire. Just to give you an idea, the largest iPhone batteries hold around 16Wh, which means 200 watts is enough to charge the entire thing in under 5 minutes. And even if the battery could somehow tolerate that, the little wires connecting it won't.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by hawk ( 1151 )

                >,putting that much energy into that little battery that
                >quickly would likely make it hot enough to start a fire.

                swell.

                Now we'll have to pay Samsung royalties, too! :)

                hawk

              • Either way, assuming Apple could even max out a 200 watt power draw, putting that much energy into that little battery that quickly would likely make it hot enough to start a fire. Just to give you an idea, the largest iPhone batteries hold around 16Wh, which means 200 watts is enough to charge the entire thing in under 5 minutes. And even if the battery could somehow tolerate that, the little wires connecting it won't.

                Imagine what 1.21 gigawatts would do..

        • First of all, tis is a response to rumor. The EU has gone full /. with it. Apple could very well have speeds beyond the PD spec required by the regulation and as long as they provide the charging required in the regulation adding a chip to cable charging beyond the spec is allowed by the regulation. It could also be a data only function which is not covered by the regulation.

          The EU has done Apple and itself a favor. The rumor (true or not) was that Apple was attempting an end-around the law, i.e., arguably following the letter of the law but neutering it by effectively reverting to what the law was trying to outlaw. If Apple were to try this, the EU could have banned all new iPhones in the EU, which would be really bad for Apple. That the EU is sending a clear signal to Apple is good for Apple.

          • First of all, tis is a response to rumor. The EU has gone full /. with it. Apple could very well have speeds beyond the PD spec required by the regulation and as long as they provide the charging required in the regulation adding a chip to cable charging beyond the spec is allowed by the regulation. It could also be a data only function which is not covered by the regulation.

            The EU has done Apple and itself a favor. The rumor (true or not) was that Apple was attempting an end-around the law, i.e., arguably following the letter of the law but neutering it by effectively reverting to what the law was trying to outlaw. If Apple were to try this, the EU could have banned all new iPhones in the EU, which would be really bad for Apple. That the EU is sending a clear signal to Apple is good for Apple.

            I suspect if teh EU did that it would be tied up in courts for a while, although I doubt Apple was planning to do that with the power side. It makes more sense for them to do that with data to ensure the cable can handle the data transfer speed; if they are planning it.

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

      Your printer is a piece of garbage. Granted almost all printers made in the last 20 years or so are garbage. There is no reason for Dell to make their own toner cartridges. There is no reason to have a microchip in the cartridge. There is no reason to have settings on what kind of cartridges are installed. It's not fair that the printer doesn't know how much ink is left in the non-Dell cartridges, because there is no reason it can't tell. It doesn't need the microchip to know that.

      Likewise, Apple is not a v

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by suutar ( 1860506 )

        I can see how the printer would know how much ink it has used from the cartridge since it was put in, but I don't see how it would know how much was in the cartridge to start. Am I missing something?

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

          Any number of ways. The first I can think of that would be easy to implement would be to measure the slight difference in weight as ink/toner is used. A completely full cartridge would have an average specific weight as would when it's empty.

          Or, why even use cartridges for ink (excluding toner here)? Why doesn't every printer have ink tanks that you just refill?

          The answer: It has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with anti-competition.

        • I can see how the printer would know how much ink it has used from the cartridge since it was put in, but I don't see how it would know how much was in the cartridge to start. Am I missing something?

          It counts pages, and starts the count = 0 with a new cartridge and simply uses a page counting algorithm to estimate life. I often go way beyond the "Cartridge Empty" warning with no loss in quality.

  • Counter-Argument (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @01:56PM (#63499838)

    Why is the EU allowing substandard USB-C cables to be sold in the EU? A improperly built high-current USB-C cable can be dangerous.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sapgau ( 413511 )
      That's an additional argument.
      Yes, manufacturers of USB-C cables should be made accountable to European Standards, equal heavy fines should apply.
      Now getting back to topic on throttling non Apple approved cables...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Teun ( 17872 )
      That is a valid question.
      But regulations are also valid for cables.

    • Re:Counter-Argument (Score:4, Insightful)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @03:44PM (#63500189)
      If a cable doesn't have a USB trademarked logo [usb.org] on it, consider it substandard absent any other info. If it does, and it doesn't meet spec, notify the USB-IF. Anyone can make cables which fit USB ports and mostly work. They have to be certified to put a logo on them.

    • Thanks for your whataboutism. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about shoddy imports. You are welcome to not burn your phone to the ground, just don't buy shit from Alibaba.

  • I'm on Apple's side here. (Score:3)

    by Virtucon ( 127420 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @02:02PM (#63499848)

    Your $2 Thunderbolt cable from Amazon is unshielded using 28 AWG wire and now you want to push 10A at 20V across it.

    "Look, Mommy! There's going to be a fire!" - Fahrenheit 451

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sapgau ( 413511 )
      But those fires haven't occurred or apparently are not newsworthy.
      Are you typing this from the donut building?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

      Nah, if you bought a $2 cable, you deserve whatever happens - I don't care how it was advertised. People who buy a $2 cable and it doesn't work right, are the same people who fall for putting their phone in the microwave. If they don't want to understand basics of technology, they don't get to be mad. This is just a grift to sell you $3 worth of parts for $30+.

      • Nah, if someone sells a cable that doesn't work right, they should be considered responsible for the fires. What if someone takes that $2 cable and sells it for $20 instead? Do you expect people to have a degree in electronic engineering to tell a bargain from a rip-off? There should be regulations to prevent the sale of unsafe equipment.
    • Power in Watts = current x voltage. If your iPhone is pulling 200 watts on the charge, you have bigger problems than the cable getting warm.

    • Re:I'm on Apple's side here. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kqs ( 1038910 ) on Friday May 05, 2023 @04:42PM (#63500375)

      Crappy cables which lied about their capabilities used to be a big problem, but that's not really an an issue anymore. I mean, there are still crappy usb-c cables, but they admit to being USB 2 when queried so your device won't try to draw 40W of power over them. I've been usb-c only for many years with non-Apple equipment (laptops, phones, tablets) and none of it has melted, exploded, or otherwise malfunctioned. If Apple equipment cannot be as reliable, well, the problem ain't the cable.

      I mean, are you saying that iphones have heavier power requirements than macbooks which somehow avoid randomly igniting with random usb-c cables?

    • If you sell cables that have "USB" or "Thunderbolt" lettering on the package, or exhibit the logotypes, you need to adhere to the specified standard and pay royalties to the USB Implementer's Forum or to Intel. Also, USB-C cables include a silicon chip (that's how the devices identify what cable brand is connected are what are its capabilities); the silicon chip is designed such that cheap makers can't just twist wires and sell a USB-C knock-off.

      Anyone can design a cable that happens to mate with devices eq

      • Fortunately, if you look for USB-IF certified 240W, 40GBps cables they do exist, at around $25/each. But you know that
        "USB Type C Cable 5Pack (3/3/6/6/10FT) Nylon Braided USB C Cable Fast Charger Charging Cord Compatible Samsung Galaxy S9 S8 Note 9 Note 8 Plus,LG V30 G6 G5 V20,Google Pixel, Moto Z2 (Navy&Blue)" at $8 looks real good.

    • Your $2 Thunderbolt cable from Amazon is unshielded using 28 AWG wire and now you want to push 10A at 20V across it.

      "Look, Mommy! There's going to be a fire!" - Fahrenheit 451

      Yep because we see an endless string of houses burning down from people's Laptops, Android phones, cameras, etc, which aren't blessed by the almighty Tim Cook /s

  • That the USB-C connector on my iPad Mini 6 transfer files at USB 2 speed. It would be nicer if the transfer speed could be faster.
  • Next - do power tool batteries. Would be great to have a few standard shapes for different companies drills/drivers/saws/strimmers/etc
  • If apple is planning to run a lot of power down a cable, and they didn't make the cable or certify that the cable brand and model meets their specs, then that is a fire risk.

    Specially given the existing context that there ARE cables out there that people can buy that have the same connector, but cannot handle the power level.

    It's perfectly reasonable safety engineering that Apple would throttle if the applle device does not detects a certified cable.

    The EU regulator might end up being responsible for a bunc

    • The EU has this under control, a sub-spec USB-C cable from Apple that is a fire risk would be illegal in the EU already ... they have standards to enforce this already, and very large fines if not met

      • The devil is in the details.
        A USB-C cable may not be legally sub-spec, but may still be a fire risk in high power applications.
        This would be the case if the USB-C related specifications have enough variety/range to allow both low power and high power capable cables with the same connectors meet the spec. I haven't studied the details of this, but suspect it's the case. My understanding is that Apple wants to make sure the cables used for its charging meet the high power variant of the standard. So it wants
  • Are they referring to specifically DRMing non-licensed cables, or are they talking about some sort of throttling based on poor signal quality through an cheap and unreliable cable?

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