Apple Introduces Apple Pay Later (apple.com) 83
Apple: Apple today introduced Apple Pay Later in the U.S. Designed with users' financial health in mind, Apple Pay Later allows users to split purchases into four payments, spread over six weeks with no interest and no fees. Users can easily track, manage, and repay their Apple Pay Later loans in one convenient location in Apple Wallet. Users can apply for Apple Pay Later loans of $50 to $1,000, which can be used for online and in-app purchases made on iPhone and iPad with merchants that accept Apple Pay. Starting today, Apple will begin inviting select users to access a prerelease version of Apple Pay Later, with plans to offer it to all eligible users in the coming months.
Apple Pay Later is built right into Wallet, so users can seamlessly view, track, and manage all of their loans in one place. With Apple Pay Later in Wallet, users can easily see the total amount due for all of their existing loans, as well as the total amount due in the next 30 days. Apple Pay Later is offered by Apple Financing, a subsidiary of Apple, which is responsible for credit assessment and lending. Apple Financing plans to report Apple Pay Later loans to U.S. credit bureaus starting this fall, so they are reflected in users' overall financial profiles and can help promote responsible lending for both the lender and the borrower.
Apple Pay Later is built right into Wallet, so users can seamlessly view, track, and manage all of their loans in one place. With Apple Pay Later in Wallet, users can easily see the total amount due for all of their existing loans, as well as the total amount due in the next 30 days. Apple Pay Later is offered by Apple Financing, a subsidiary of Apple, which is responsible for credit assessment and lending. Apple Financing plans to report Apple Pay Later loans to U.S. credit bureaus starting this fall, so they are reflected in users' overall financial profiles and can help promote responsible lending for both the lender and the borrower.
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Re:In other words (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, this new "Apple Pay Later" loan thing, has nothing to do with buying Apple Products.
I mean, there's a long standing policy/offer of if you buy Apple products from Apple (watch, computer, phone, etc)....and you buy with Apple Pay, you automatically have the option to not only get 3% off, but also you get 24 months interest free to pay it off.
I pretty much use that on all Apple products I've bought...I mean, I always have cash on hand that I save up for big purchases, but hell...if I have 24mo interest free, I'll put that cash in a savings account (that is now earning about 4+% interests)...and just make my monthly payments on the Apple Card for 24 months.
Why not? It's a nice deal.
This new Apple Pay Later program seems to be aimed at NON-Apple store purchases.
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Actually, this new "Apple Pay Later" loan thing, has nothing to do with buying Apple Products.
Yep. This seems aimed at the sort of people who are likely to get into debt.
I'd like to see the fine print about what happens if you miss a payment or don't manage to pay off the full amount in the specified time.
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Well, "tools" like these are convenient and helpful for people that are responsible and know how to use them.
I don't think we should not have them available just because some people are irresponsible....
You can't legislate stupid away.
And we shouldn't...that leads to always only allowing for
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You can legislate against predatory behavior though, which this most certainly seems like it is.
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Buying something you can’t afford is not predatory on the part of the BNPL service. I’m so tired of this “not my fault” mentality.
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Well, "tools" like these are convenient and helpful for people that are responsible and know how to use them.
I don't think we should not have them available just because some people are irresponsible....
You can't legislate stupid away.
And we shouldn't...that leads to always only allowing for the lowest common denominator.
And yet we do it all the time.
It would be pretty stupid to drive a car without a license. Or drive impaired. Or speed limits!
I would argue most countries have laws to protect the stupid/legislate stupid away.
Some of these laws are more stupid than others though
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Those are different things...basically those laws are there to protect OTHER people.
I was speaking towards the govt not being responsible for protecting you from yourself and your own stupid life choices.
Grown adults need to live with he consequences of their actions.
That's how people grow and learn.
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Those are different things...basically those laws are there to protect OTHER people.
How about seat belts and motorcycle helmets?
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Motorcycle helmet laws vary from state to state...not every state requires you to wear one....I think it should be up to the adult to make that choice.
Seatbelts...I don't think should be mandatory to wear, but should be mandatory in cars so you have the option.
The seatbelt in a car also does help the driver some with control in a collision, so that's an extra.
Re: In other words (Score:1)
I'd like to see the fine print about what happens if you miss a payment or don't manage to pay off the full amount in the specified time.
Wouldn't be surprised if they get their idevices remotely disabled until they pay. That would be an easy way for apple to mitigate risk involving people with lower credit scores.
You know what would also work in their favor is if they forbid ownership transfer of idevices to any party other than apple until all outstanding debts are paid off. That would be a rather genius way to stop chronic debtors from switching to competitors, in addition to furthering their existing ambitions of limiting the supply of us
Re: In other words (Score:2)
But this has nothing to do with buying Apple products.
Apple has had deferred payment option for Apple Store for years now with the Apple Goldman Sachs credit card.
This is to purchase anything anywhere that accepts MasterCard apparently using Apple Pay not the Goldman Sachs card.
But I donâ(TM)t think a six week payment schedule helps much of anyone.
Re:In other words (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a thin veneer of a big brand to obfuscate predatory lending.
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It's a thin veneer of a big brand to obfuscate predatory lending.
Splitting a pizza into monthly payments isn't preying as much as it's casting a spotlight on the sheer stupidity of this. Especially when you look at the statistics of actually getting all your money back.
Either lenders haven't learned yet, or this is one hell of a fantastic tax write-off/loophole for a mega-corp.
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Splitting a pizza into monthly payments isn't preying
No, but splitting a dozen pizzas plus a few trips to overpriced coffee shops might be.
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Splitting a pizza into monthly payments isn't preying
No, but splitting a dozen pizzas plus a few trips to overpriced coffee shops might be.
I doubt predatory lending was ever even a goal here. At zero percent interest, once again the consumer has become the actual Product for sale, a page taken from social media. Consumers lack of privacy is a trillion-dollar market, which is why social media promotes mass narcissism.
The current statistics on repayment are horrific. More lenders, isn't going to improve on that other than to cash in on the actual Product being sold.
Re:In other words (Score:4, Funny)
Re: In other words (Score:1)
I really don't care about apple, but it's not exactly predatory in the sense that it's not deceptive.
I was in Costco a few weeks ago and some AT&T derp was trying to sell me on the idea that his plan would be cheaper than my T-Mobile plan. I asked specifically if there were any below the line fees or if the price would go up after so many months into the contract. He very emphatically said no to all of the above. So I asked if I could see the actual contact before I agreed to anything, and he told me th
Re:In other words (Score:5, Informative)
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Can you explain how 0% interest is predatory?
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Yeah definitely no other company sells $1200 phones or a workstation that can cost $50k.
Department stores and charge plates (Score:5, Informative)
Before the age of credit cards, most department stores (recall those?) used to offer credit to their customers. The charge plate was a metal plate the store held to stamp your purchases for pre-approved credit. You then had revolving credit to pay off, which let you buy more as you paid it off. There was also Lay-a-way as an alternative where you could buy something and the store would hold it in stock until you made the final payment.
So the idea of a company making it simple to buy things on credit isn't new. And it doesn't make it predatory either. I sincerely doubt apple's affiliate loan rates will be larger than most credit cards. The amounts involved are capped at small amounts.
Comparing this to payback predatory lending is knicker twisted Henny Penny get-off-my-lawn reactionary thinking
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Maybe my memory predates yours but my recollection is that once we got to plastic cards the consumer would indeed hold the card. But there was a time the metal plate was stored at the store. Often these were kept in a central office and sent out to the point of sale a pneumatic tube.
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So the idea of a company making it simple to buy things on credit isn't new. And it doesn't make it predatory either.
The entire intent of a department store credit card (at 20%+ interest) was to establish your credit while providing a business benefit to the store, making purchases that justified a loan.
Splitting a fucking pizza order into equal monthly payments every weekend, is not the same thing.
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It's a trap, they're lowering the barrier to make purchases you can't afford amid rising costs of living and inflation so that people think, "It's okay, I can pay for it when I get paid" ensuring a cycle of debt, as once that person gets paid, they realize they're tight now and there were other things that should have spent their money on, but they already owe apple for the impulse buy. That's the target by the way, is that if people don't impulse buy and think about it, by time they have the money and what
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The entire concept of credit and debt is predatory by nature since its creation. It does not matter if some are less predatory than others.
Layaway is different than credit and not predatory. In (traditional) layaway, you don't take possession of the item until it's paid off, there are no interest payments, and you can get your money back if you change your mind before final payment. This is the only acceptable system of purchasing things well beyond your normal limits.
Any system of "take it now, pay it late
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So you are saying people should not get loans to start a business or buy a house. Cities should not issue bonds to build roads or community centers. Or the federal gov't should not borrow money and spend it into a recession. Maybe you need to ponder what Keynes meant when he said "in the long run were all dead". It means that borrowing on the future can create a more productive trajectory today than simply waiting for your earnings in the future before spending.
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Correct. People should not get loans to start businesses or buy houses. They fundamentally should not be necessary to do these things.
I'm well aware of the asshole that is Keynes. You cannot infinitely borrow from the future. But capitalism doesn't care about the future, at least, not until there literally isn't one anymore. And then there won't be a present either. Anyone who celebrates Keynes is an asshole who has absolutely no concept of the actual world and what matters in it.
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Lmao, anyone who actually understands economics and finance either wants to destroy it (me) or take advantage of it (and thus others in general). The entire system is absolute trash and not necessary for society. Credit scores? Don't need them. Credit and debt systems? Don't need them. Investors? Don't need them. Private banks? Don't need them (though we do need banks in general, but they should be non-profits or government operated only). I don't enjoy being taken advantage of, so I don't really like seein
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I see, from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, comrade? The state shall wither away. Your communism is the opiate of the people me thinks
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You see nothing, because also no. I never implied or suggested communism. Though it is telling that you think if those things I mentioned go away, then communism must be happening as if capitalism and communism are the only two choices - neither of which has ever been 100% achieved in any country in recorded history.
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So the idea of a company making it simple to buy things on credit isn't new. And it doesn't make it predatory either.
Of course it does. The entire premise of this system is an attempt to lock you into a purchase which you very clearly cannot afford at the time. Loans for things cheaper than a monthly paycheck are always predatory and push people into ... let me quote a smart person on this topic: "revolving credit to pay off, which let you buy more as you paid it off"
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Having a car now so you can drive to work and keep your high paying job, sure beats working a crap job you can walk to till you can afford that car. It's not a predatory trap. Most loan interest rates are very close to the profit less time value of money. Often times they are even less.
taking a loan to get an education (a good one) is worth doing in many cases. However, having educated people is so valuable to society, it wold be even better if education were cheap enough not to need loans. But since
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Having a car now
Re-read my post and try and figure out why a car isn't remotely relevant to what I wrote. Hint: Words 4-8 of my second sentence.
Also no one is buying a car with Apple Pay Later.
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Living on credit is something the poors do, and also a big part of why they stay poor.
I'm talking about consumer credit of course, not mortgages. Although McMansion subprimes are also something the poor do.
So yeah. Not predatory on the part of Apple per se. But definitely like a pusher helping crackheads get their dose so they don't get the idea of quitting.
Re: Department stores and charge plates (Score:1)
Consumer debt actually long pre-dates department stores. Even mom and pop shops were doing that in ancient Roman times, if not earlier.
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Why is this modded Troll, this is exactly what it is: Apple noticed that people can't spend as much as they used to on their crap and now want to lure them with the old "oh don't worry about paying for it, that's gonna come later, now enjoy your new sparkly bling".
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Why is this modded Troll, this is exactly what it is
Well, they got the "predatory lending" part correct, but Apple being "overpriced" is a subjective opinion. The cheapest iPad is significantly cheaper than the cheapest Microsoft Surface tablet, and if you don't have to have the latest iPhone, they're frequently cheap ($50) [cricketwireless.com] or free (if you port your number) [metrobyt-mobile.com] with carrier promotions.
Apple is certainly happy to take your money if you're willing to spend it, but they're actually quite competitive on the lower end as well. Carriers have been giving away iPhones
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It's not a subjective opinion. They are factually overpriced. All you did was link to examples of getting someone else to pay for it that isn't YOU. Cricket and T-Mobile only give you the phone for cheap if you sign up for a plan with them and maintain it for a certain amount of time. Cricket and T-Mobile are just taking the rest of the money from you in other ways and in small installments - plus then you are stuck with Cricket or T-Mobile, two of the worst possible carriers in the US. iPhones on average "
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Idiots who don't understand basic economics love saying this.
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Any carrier that is offering a subsidized phone requires a certain lock-in period. Cricket is 6 months if you want the $50 iPhone 11 instead of $500. It's in their terms and agreements. Of course, they aren't as upfront about it since it runs counter to their "pay-as-you-go" motto. If the phone is locked-in to a carrier until unless you give them more money (or complete the length of the term), it's not really yours. Just like if you have a mortgage, you don't really own your home - the bank does. Not to me
Tacky! (Score:2)
Next up: starbucks (Score:2)
Starbucks will offer a handy.
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BNPL is sleaze because most of the providers are sleazy. But those are generally longer term BNPL where there are tons of caveats and the terms are much longer (e.g., 1-2 year payback). Considering this is really just 6 weeks, this isn't much longer than a normal credit card where you typically have 30 days to pay back. This is a short term loan.
Designed with users' financial health in mind (Score:5, Insightful)
No....not really.
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Well, sure it is. Just not designed with users' good financial health in mind.
Re: Designed with users' financial health in mind (Score:2)
Yup. Especially those unable to put such pitty money on the side, shouldn't be spending it.. BNPL gets so many people in trouble, aspiring to get all the ads tell 'em they're worth whatever with complete disregard for their financial status.
Unable to manage your finances? Buy Now, Screwed Later.
Predatory lending for the fashion conscious (Score:2)
Profitable strategy, not particularly ethical though.
And so it begins (Score:3)
It's the American Way (Score:2)
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I would've expected people to be smarter when it's their money they're squandering instead of someone else's.
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Student loan forgiveness is a version of this. Anybody approaching retirement needs to be thinking about the financial risks of possible populist measures like higher taxes on capital gains, property taxes, or means testing social security. Even if you agree with such things on principle and hope they do come true, they have to be regarded as factors i
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"Savers" need to be wiped out, because they cause all the problems. Small scale and for the poor, it's fine and almost necessary, but the rich are "savers" too. A large number sitting in the bank account is useless.
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I don't give a shit about what the bank can provide. Individuals with large bank accounts aren't necessary for that anyway. Lots of people with smaller accounts accomplishes the same thing with less risk. Look at SVB - a series of bad calls along with just a comparative handful of people that pull their big money out and collapse the bank. Fuck banks. They should NOT be privately owned, for-profits. I hope all the banks collapse in America.
Win-Win (Score:3)
Wow! No fees*, no interest**, and a good way to build credit*** without a credit card! Why not use it for everything? Apple truly cares about its customers... /s
They kind of had that already for Apple products (Score:2)
For a while, you've been able to buy Apple products and instead of paying all at once, spread payments over two years(!).
I guess in some ways it's nice to have this flexibility, but it does seem like a dangerous tool to give a lot of people that can't manage budgets responsibly... but just because some people can't handle them, does not means tools should not exist.
Gross and cripples lower-cost competitors (Score:2)
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I don't see it as hurting much - after all, it's just a short term thing. Instead of getting 30 days as you do with a regular credit card, you get 45 days or so (6 weeks). So I don't see it killing sales of cheap devices at all - it's just a slightly extended payback time.
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As someone who grew up in poverty and now lives comfortably, this makes me sick to my stomach. Beyond the human-misery factor, financing just harms lower-cost device providers. There are plenty of inexpensive android phones and tablets around who may get less sales.
I think you're confused here. Apple has always had a pay-over-twelve-months option for their own products (when purchased directly from Apple). This just makes it possible for some Android tablets to qualify for similar treatment over a shorter time scale. So this would actually help those device providers.
The other part I don't like is that Apple raised the price of their cheapest iPad...a VERY popular seller for children doing homework, zoom-lessons, even doctor visits. The market should punish them by customers buying less iPads: either buying competitors or waiting longer to buy. Financing schemes may reduce the pain they need to feel for their anti-customer decisions.
Again, financing Apple Store purchases has always been possible, so this changes nothing.
I'm trying to be open-minded and think of scenarios in which this helps a struggling family, but I just can't.
The clientele of Apple credit cards (mostly people with above average income and high credit scores) makes it pr
Target audience running out of cash? (Score:2)
Seriously, buddy, if you need to finance a fashion statement, it's time to reconsider your financial situation.
No thanks... (Score:2)
I'm holding out for Apple Pay Never.
It's a trap (Score:1)
High costs of living have made it more difficult to impulse by as people are watching their finances or waiting until they get paid. Since it wears off, Apple is trying to get you to commit to the purchase before the impulse buy wears off.
The start of Loyalty Centers (Score:2)
2) Economy tanks, people can't repay the loan
3) Apple creates Loyalty Centers for those who can't pay
4) Apple uses the debtors to build all its electronics (only labor cheaper than India/China is slave labor)
5) ??
6) Profit!
Not enough (Score:2)
Pay later is not enough. I will only start buying Apple when they introduce "Pay Never."
No user fees? (Score:2)
So if there are no user fees, how exactly are they making money then? Are there vendor fees? Are they hoping enough new people are taken in by this that they start using Apple Pay when they didn't before (thus increasing their vendor fees)? I am sure this is not out of the goodness of their heart, so where exactly are they making money here?
Oh goodie! (Score:1)