Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Google Apple

Google Urges Apple Not To 'Drop the Ball' on Fixing Messaging in New Billboard Pushing RCS (macrumors.com) 142

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Google is continuing on with its #GetTheMessage campaign attempting to convince Apple to adopt the RCS messaging protocol, this time taking out a large New Year's-themed ad at Harmon Corner in Las Vegas. From a report: The digital billboard urges Apple not to "drop the ball" on fixing its "pixelated photos and videos." Hey Apple, it's Android, the ball may have dropped on 2022, but you don't have to drop the ball on fixing your pixelated photos and videos. [...] After the short message, the billboard scrolls through RCS code, ending with a plea to customers to "Help Apple #GetTheMessage," the hashtag that Google has been using for the campaign.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Google Urges Apple Not To 'Drop the Ball' on Fixing Messaging in New Billboard Pushing RCS More

Google Urges Apple Not To 'Drop the Ball' on Fixing Messaging in New Billboard Pushing RCS

Comments Filter:

  • While you're at it (Score:4, Funny)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:29AM (#63184750)
    how about asking Microsoft to get Lotus 1-2-3 running on DOS?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ichthus ( 72442 )
      1986 called...

    • I still have to use lotus 1-2-3 at work for legacy purposes and, to be honest, it's better than modern excel for everything except for manipulating lots of records but, generally speaking, that's not the place of a spreadsheet (though often is sadly)

    • Not just that, RCS was designed by the 3GPP standards committees so it's bloated, obtuse, overcomplicated, has endless braindead concessions made to different cellphone vendors, and each implementation is a smorgasbord of footgun security holes waiting to be exploited. I know that Apple likes to be Apple but I can also understand why they'd want to avoid this dumpster fire, particularly since it's about a decade late to the party with something every other IM app in existence has been doing more or less fo

  • Does anybody care? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:48AM (#63184828) Homepage Journal

    Does anybody really care about sending pictures and video via text these days? Most people I know solved the problem ages ago - by not using text messages.

    There are so many ways to send effectively full res images and better quality video than you can do via MMS, all of which work on iOS and Android devices, and none of which use RCS.

    • There are so many ways to send effectively full res images and better quality video than you can do via MMS, all of which work on iOS and Android devices, and none of which use RCS.

      Name one service that everyone I know has on their cell phones.
      Oh yeah, the only one is SMS, that is why. Not everyone is in every chat service.

      • I don't have SMS.

        SMS is not the common denominator. It only works on devices with a cellular radio, turned on, with signal, and enough battery.

        My laptop computer and a much faster wired internet connection can't send/receive SMS.

    • There are so many ways to send effectively full res images and better quality video than you can do via MMS, all of which work on iOS and Android devices, and none of which use RCS.

      While I agree with you in principle, the technical truth -- on which Google's entire narrative hangs -- is that there is one specific service which is not compatible with Android -- iMessage. Apple implemented iMessage over a decade ago as a significantly improved alternative to the aging MMS system, whereas at the time, Google still hadn't yet decided which way it wanted to go with messaging... and now Google is kind'a irked that Apple beat them to the punch. (That whole "blue vs green" thing is just a hig

      • You don't even realize that you're shilling for vendor lock-in. Google isn't doing that. They're trying to unlock Apple users to use an open standard that works directly through the carrier. Like email or phone calls or SMS. All the providers pick a common identifier and they allow communication from other providers. This has always been a major (somewhat intentional) flaw with iMessage.

        There are plenty of other "chat vendors," and Google has even run multiple - Chat and Hangouts. And there's also Wh

        • And none of them are a replacement for carrier messaging

          Remind me why we need "carrier messaging" to begin with? Sounds exactly like what I am trying to avoid at all costs: the ability for my cell phone carrier to bill me per message, or even be aware that I sent or received messages, even if the content is encrypted.

          • Sounds less like a legitimate privacy concern and more like you need a new carrier.

            Carrier messaging is a universal fallback that works with everyone that has a phone number without any setup and without any lock in.

            If you and your contacts want to set up accounts with a service, that's great. But SMS is not a sane fallback anymore.

            • Sounds less like a legitimate privacy concern and more like you need a new carrier.

              Why should I need a mobile phone carrier just to send a message? I already have an ISP.

              Carrier messaging is a universal fallback that works with everyone that has a phone number

              No it doesn't. It only works with MOBILE phone numbers. And the carrier owns that number. You can't register one, you can't host one yourself (unlike say email or xmpp). When traveling to another country and swapping SIM card, guess what happens to your incoming SMS? Who knows? It depends on your carrier. Best case, you'll read them 2 weeks later on your way back home, and worst case, they are gone forever without the sen

              • You can't register one, you can't host one yourself (unlike say email or xmpp).

                Different problem. It sounds like you don't want the service, so it shouldn't matter to you what happens between SMS/RCS/iMessage, just like you probably don't care what happens with landline telephone service. All of your arguments also apply to voice calls and yet we still use voice calling with telephone numbers even when newer options are available.

                • I do care, I hope all three of SMS, RCS and iMessage die as soon as possible. There is simply no need for messaging that is either locked-in to a single vendor or only working with mobile phones.

                  Just like there is no need for voice calls which would only works with mobile phones. Voice calls are fine, SMS/RCS/iMessage are not.

              • When traveling to another country and swapping SIM card, guess what happens to your incoming SMS? Who knows? It depends on your carrier. Best case, you'll read them 2 weeks later on your way back home, and worst case, they are gone forever without the sender even been notified.

                It's actually a data service and would probably work over WiFi or no matter what carrier. But it might require dual-sim when travelling so that your messaging app still knows the ISMI numbers it's supposed to send/receive with. Internally RCS messaging uses the ISMI and not the phone number for addressing.

                • RCS maybe, but for that part I was talking about SMS. So no, it's not a data service and it doesn't work over WiFi.

                  Anyways, why take the risk? SMS and RCS both suck and there are plenty of cross-platform alternatives not relying on a mobile phone carrier (phone number / ISMI) to work.

        • What Google wants is not specifically that Apple use RCS but Google's version of RCS. So they are asking that Apple include their implementation with Apple's vendor-locked implementation. Why should Apple do that? When it comes to RCS, Google added their own implementation of end to end encryption on top of RCS so anyone accepting it will have to accept Google's encryption.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      Does anybody really care about sending pictures and video via text these days?

      Yes. Because it remains one of the few 3rd party tech company agnostic ways of communicating.

      Most people I know solved the problem ages ago - by not using text messages.

      Ok boomer. Back in reality WhatsApp, Messenger, and yes iMessage are used the world over by literally billions of people. People didn't stop sending text messages, they stopped sending SMSs instead adopting some solution from Farcebook, or whomever.

      A solution that really sucks when you travel between multiple countries and release that not every special purpose tech company product is popular all over the world.

      You

      • On the contrary, SMS sucks when you travel between multiple countries, especially when swapping SIM cards to avoid exorbitant roaming fees.
        Any messaging solution based on a phone number as the ID will suck.

        What you are looking for is e-mail, not SMS or RCS.

        But yes, even Facebook Messenger is better than iMessage or SMS.

        • On the contrary, SMS sucks when you travel between multiple countries, especially when swapping SIM cards to avoid exorbitant roaming fees.

          Huh? Swapping SIM cards? Exorbitant fees? Are you
          a) living in 2002?
          b) paying the worlds cheapest and most basic mobile plan?
          b.1) subquestion: how can you afford to travel if you are using the world's cheapest and most basic mobile plan?

          The last time I swapped SIM cards was in 2013, and I take on average 4 intercontinental flights a year, in some cases to real shitholes. Next one is Azerbaijan! Get yourself a decent phone plan.

          • There is no phone plan with cheap world-wide roaming in Canada. It just doesn't exist. At best you'll get one covering the USA.

            But yes, I have a cheap plan and can still afford to travel. I don't see why I would pay 4x more to mobile phone carriers just to get features I don't need.

      • Sorry, MMS doesn't work across borders, since it needs data, and last I looked, Android was terrible at it. In your home country, for those countries in Western Europe I've bothered to look at, reception of MMS is free, even without data plan. With dual SIM, it does mean that the phone should know to fetch MMS messages on the card that isn't used for data, or on either card if data is off. Which Android devices don't do. Single SIM Nokia N9 did all that perfectly (it wasn't hailed as the God-phone for nothi

        • Sorry, MMS doesn't work across borders, since it needs data

          Well considering you think data doesn't work across borders I find it hard to take the rest of your post seriously. Not everyone:
          a) travels
          b) travels while also paying for the worlds cheapest and crappest mobile plan forcing them to go through some dual SIM / SIM swap rigmarole.

          • Good point, one can indeed just use data when traveling internationally, and then MMS works. You're totally right. But then there's no difference with using other messengers, and your initial point was, that SMS and MMS always work. You're totally right for your limited point, and if you dismiss my point, you'll keep being right. Well played.

    • yes, people care.

      the idea is that you should not need to download a third party app that is only compatible with users of said third party app. if apple adopted rcs that means the default sms app of either platform will work and mms will effectively be killed

      i would switch to imessage on android if that was possible instead of rcs. it would actually be funny if apple decided to provide imessage for android instead of rcs support.

      • Clarification: if Apple adopted Google's version of RCS, it would be compatible with Android. Sorta. Maybe. Depends. It is still possible that a carrier's version of RCS is incompatible with Google and nothing would be gained by Apple.
    • I think it's more than that. For one thing it shows in real time if people are online or if they're typing. It kind of becomes a de facto social network. You end up feeling disconnected from your friends that use Android. At least that's how my kid seemed to think to the point where they went back to iPhone despite preferring Androids otherwise.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Well, everyone's phone can do SMS & MMSes.

  • I couldn't give a shit what google/android was complaining about, my device works great!

    Oh, and I don't expect much from all of you green bubbles out there...

  • Google already dropped it (Score:3)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:50AM (#63184838)

    It's pretty odd Google is saying Apple should not "drop the ball", when Google already has it on the ground from a pretty much failed rollout of RCS [google.com].

    From vendor specific oddness to just plain flaky behaviour, there is no reason for any sane company to co-mingle with RCS at this point.

    For users, RCS does not matter as they can just use communication apps like Signal, if the really want rich cross-platform communication. And isn't that really better anyway rather than luring users into some telco approved approach that is easily spied upon?

    • > Google already has it on the ground from a pretty much failed rollout of RCS

      And that's after a long time of promoting their own Google-only standard. Funny how it was perfectly OK for Google to use a proprietary standard until it wasn't, and even more amusing to watch the anti-Apple people actually fall for it.

      Who cares anyway? I use Signal.

      • Who cares anyway? I use Signal.

        Did you have any trouble with convincing everyone you know and want to message with, to download, install and create an account with Signal?

        Any problems with new people you meet that you might want to message soon...that don't know what Signal is?

        Not saying signal isn't great or even superior, but the problem is...it isn't ubiquitous.....

        I shudder at the thought of having to train my parents on one more thing like this, I'm still doing tech support from time to time on the

        • Contrary to SuperKendal most people I know don't have Signal, though many are willing to install it even without me explaining anything about it - I've stopped evangelizing since I got kids and only ever did that for Linux and Firefox (taking back the web before Google stole it), I just say I'm not on any net aside Signal, they can call, SMS, mail, so that's it. Those who ask about Signal get my short view. That said, my wife put me in charge of her parents smartphones (including buying those), so the whole
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

          Wait, what? You're condemning Google because prior to RCS they made do with a home grown technology in the absence of any viable standards, but as soon as a viable, non-proprietary, standard was introduced, they jumped on it?

          Uh... RCS was introduced in 2008 in February. Android was also released in 2008, but in September. So RCS manages to (slightly) pre-date Android, sort of.

          In any case, Google pretty much ignored RCS until 2018, when they added support to Google's Messages app.

          So it took literally a decade for Google to use the open standard, and they only did it after their own proprietary standards fell apart.

      • Who cares anyway? I use Signal.

        Signal sucks because it relies on the phone number as an ID (you can't sign-up without having a cell phone number from what I understand). Properly designed messaging services rely on user names or email as the ID.

        And while it's nice to have end to end encryption, not even seeing your message history when installing Signal desktop sucks. I want to be able to access all my past messages from any device I may own in the future, and be able to search in my previous conversations. I'd rather give up e2ee for us

      • Funny how it was perfectly OK for Google to use a proprietary standard until it wasn't, and even more amusing to watch the anti-Apple people actually fall for it.

        There's nothing to fall for. Fuck Google for trying to be Apple, but praise them for adopting an actual open standard and for pushing their weight to promote adoption from other people who should be given an equal number of fucks.

        Consider adopting the message rather than focusing on who it was saying it.

        Who cares anyway? I use Signal.

        Cool, can you Whatsapp me from Signal? Since when was Slashdot an proponent of non-interoperable standards?

        • No but I find it somewhat dishonest that not all Android devices or carriers support Google's version of RCS (and yes there are different versions). Yet Google is giving Apple grief for not supporting a standard that not everyone supports including Google's Android partners.

    • So I can either try to teach my 76 year old mother how to install Signal or whatever, and then answer questions until she dies about why she can't send messages to everyone she knows from the same app, or deal with a miserable but ubiquitous messaging experience via SMS.

      Thanks, Apple.

      Of course, Apple could just stop being anticompetitive asshats and release iMessage for Android (and even charge for it if they like) but we already know they won't because they want the wedge.

    • From vendor specific oddness to just plain flaky behaviour, there is no reason for any sane company to co-mingle with RCS at this point.

      Saying you shouldn't adopt a public standard and retain something custom because of a vendor adopting the standard being flaky has to be the dumbest race to the bottom I've heard.

    • Signal isn't cross-platform, it is phone-only. So are most of these idiotic messaging apps.

  • I don't see apple supporting a protocol that it isn't backwards compatible with existing devices. They are the company of it just works, and if it doesn't work, users will blame Apple.

    • Why wouldn't it work with existing devices? It's not like there are hardware requirements for RCS - it's software.

      • It is true that it could work with previous iPhones just fine if Apple allowed it.
        However, it's not only software, otherwise, I could download an RCS software for my PC and start using it. It's unfortunately tightly dependent on a mobile phone subscription / phone number. And for no reason other than allow mobile phone carriers and/or Google to bill per message and/or harvest the meta data.

        • Okay sure if you want to be pedantic, yes it requires a SIM card and a GSM radio, so that it has a phone number and radio to connect to the cellular network with.

          You know what has SIM cards and GSM radios? Every iPhone ever manufactured.

          That was kind of implied by "iPhone".

          • iPod touch and most iPads don't. 99% of PCs don't.
            Why should anyone switch to a new messaging service that is incompatible with those, with no added benefit? There is no point to RCS in this century.

  • Google Can't Troll (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Too Late for Cool ID ( 1794870 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:55AM (#63184868)
    Is this going to be like when Google trolled Apple for dropping headphone jacks from iPhones, and then dropped headphone jacks from Pixel phones?

    • No. Google already tried a proprietary approach and abandoned it. It would be like Apple now introducing a headphone jack and criticising Google for not having one.

    • Why are Google still making Pixel phones in 2023 anyway? They should have made Vector phones years ago!

  • How many messaging "standards" has Google screwed up and abandoned? The only reason for SMS is that it works everywhere, and RCS doesn't have that - indeed can't have that. RCS is just another messaging protocol among many with more backing and less corporate control. Google has no right to point fingers. Apple shouldn't talk either. Both have so much to gain from controlling messaging that their greed has made them ineligible.

    • The only reason for SMS is that it works everywhere

      No it doesn't. It only works on cell phones.
      It prevents 100% of non-cellular tablets and computers from using it.
      SMS sucks, and RCS sucks by trying to emulate the worst features of SMS. The cell phone carriers shouldn't know when and to whom I sent a message. They shouldn't even be able to bill me per message. They are dumb pipes and should just relay my data.

      And iMessage suck even more by being single-vendor, relying on the phone number as an ID, and preventing SMS from dying.

      • iMessage does not rely on a phone number as an ID, otherwise it wouldn't also work on Mac, non-cellular iPad and iPod touch. Sure, you can have a phone number tied to your account, but it's not necessary.

    • The only reason for SMS is that it works everywhere, and RCS doesn't have that

      RCS can have that if SMS can. It can just as easily work everywhere. Just as not all cell carriers started out with SMS service. That was a while back and it takes time to gain critical mass.

      The reason for SMS is as a fallback for RCS. Until it's not needed anymore.

  • Almost everyone I know uses Messages and others work fine with SMS. RCS rolled out in 2007 and Google wasn't interested until after a few failed messaging attempts. RCS itself is a mess between carriers and phone implementations.

  • Sorry, I am too geekie for Slashdot.
  • I got a video over SMS from an iPhone using friend:
    video stream: 151 kb/s 176x144 10fps avc
    audio: 12.8 kb/s 8000Hz 13bits 1 channel AMR narrow band. Ouch.

  • Google disabled RCS support in India because users were overwhelmed with rich content spam from business. Google wants that to happen to iOS devices too, which is why they keep pushing it.

    Thanks, google.

  • Just pay Apple whatever it takes to license iMessage.

  • Google themselves have stated that one of the major uses for RCS is delivering ads: http://jibe.google.com/busines... [google.com] Google effectively owns the protocol, which nobody else had wanted since is came out in 2008. They also run much of the infrastructure carriers use to deliver RCS. Like SMS, in RCS your identity is your phone number. It's tied to a billable product and an identity. You can't easily change that identifier or use it anonymously. If Apple ever adopts the protocol, Google will have a tremendou

  • I'd release iMessage on Android for free and charge them 99 cents per month or 4.99 dollars per year for the service. At that point, it would make them look good by being compatible with another platform, it would generate more profits and the cherry on top would be to tell Google to shut the fuck up about their custom, non-standard RCS bullshit.

    • Also, make the Android iMessage bubbles "light/sky blue" instead of green. That's still a different colour to differentiate them from the regular blue of Mac/iPhone/etc iMessage.

Slashdot Top Deals

The perversity of nature is nowhere better demonstrated by the fact that, when exposed to the same atmosphere, bread becomes hard while crackers become soft.

Close