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Apple

Apple To Allow Outside App Stores in Overhaul Spurred by EU Laws (bloomberg.com) 82

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Apple is preparing to allow alternative app stores on its iPhones and iPads, part of a sweeping overhaul aimed at complying with strict European Union requirements coming in 2024. From a report: Software engineering and services employees are engaged in a major push to open up key elements of Apple's platforms, according to people familiar with the efforts. As part of the changes, customers could ultimately download third-party software to their iPhones and iPads without using the company's App Store, sidestepping Apple's restrictions and the up-to-30% commission it imposes on payments. The moves -- a reversal of long-held policies -- are a response to EU laws aimed at leveling the playing field for third-party developers and improving the digital lives of consumers. For years, regulators and software makers have complained that Apple and Google, which run the two biggest mobile app stores, wield too much power as gatekeepers.
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Apple To Allow Outside App Stores in Overhaul Spurred by EU Laws More

Apple To Allow Outside App Stores in Overhaul Spurred by EU Laws

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  • Competition is a good thing, thanks EU.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by UpnAtom ( 551727 )

      When the US needs the EU to fix its capitalism. Only, it will probably be EU-only.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dmay34 ( 6770232 )

        I think this is unlikely to be EU only. That would make for a lot of bad press. Think the headline: "Why you can play XBox games on the iPhone in Europe but not in the US". Etc.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by saloomy ( 2817221 )
          It will not be an EU only thing, but it will be a shit show. I am glad for software developers who will have an easier time being competitive on the iPhone, but soon, we will not be able to download apps like BofA in the regular App Store. When you go to BofA.com you will see doubleclick, Adsense, and other ad networks tracking and monetizing you, before you even log in. When you use the App Store app, Apple has forced BofA to remove that kind of horseshit. Also, the kind of horseshit that downloads copies

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by reanjr ( 588767 )

            There's no need to run a banking app on your phone. If the only available app has ads, then just don't install it.

            • I am a remote employee of a small business not yet big enough to offer payroll direct deposit to its employees. I receive a paper payroll check in the mail every two weeks. Without a banking app for a phone, how do I go about photographing this check for deposit?

              • Why would banks not go on the apps store? Are there bank apps that are not free? with no ad 30% of 0 is 0.

                Also you receive checks? banks in my country don't even accept checks anymore. Seriously how hard is it for company a bank transfer instead of writing a check. Especially since they clearly have access to the internet since you remote work.

                You could go to your bank's web site and upload the photo, don't know banks here don't accept checks.

                • You missed the point. They get paid to harvest data off users to their website with trackers and ads. The App Store prevents that kind of abuse of their users for profit. If they can circumvent that denial of trackers, why wouldn't they?

                  • Find a new bank? Use a browser and plugins to block the trackers? I trust a private browser window more than I trust arbitrary code executing on my phone.

                  • None of the banks I know even allows you to deposit a check through their web site, they force you to use their Android / iOS application.
                    Why would it change just because Apple is forced to allow sideloading? Clearly they want us to install their application.

                • Also you receive checks? banks in my country don't even accept checks anymore. Seriously how hard is it for company a bank transfer instead of writing a check. Especially since they clearly have access to the internet since you remote work.

                  I do not use direct deposit, because when you grant the right to deposit into your account, you also grant the right to withdraw from it. Also, if an error is made, it's a lot harder to have it corrected.

                  • I do not use direct deposit, because when you grant the right to deposit into your account, you also grant the right to withdraw from it.

                    No you don't. Just like when you make a check, you give your account number to the other person but you do not allow larger withdraws

                    • No you don't. Just like when you make a check, you give your account number to the other person but you do not allow larger withdraws

                      It has happened before that corrections were screwed up. They get corrected later but have caused inconveniences. Can't find a cite with google right now through all the forbes dick riding links and shit, I really need to get on making my personal web archives searchable. Apache Solr here I come, I guess.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by tepples ( 727027 )

                  Also you receive checks? banks in my country don't even accept checks anymore. Seriously how hard is it for company a bank transfer instead of writing a check.

                  In my experience, it's hard for an employer in the U.S. to get its payroll processor to issue direct deposit if the employer doesn't have over a certain number of employees in a state. Every time the company I've worked for has dipped below a certain size, the paychecks have switched to paper.

          • Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @08:03PM (#63128844)
            I'm using Android. The vast majority of the apps I use regularly come from Google Play. I have also sideloaded a handful of carefully vetted apps, with no additional privacy or security issues whatsoever.

            If the current iPhone experience is so awesome as you say, most people are not going to leave Apple's walled garden at all and little will change. Some people will do so of course, at their own risk, but if that is not for you, don't do it. Not sure why you care about what other people do in any case.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by saloomy ( 2817221 )
              As a bad example, I own a Tesla. I can use the Tesla app to enhance the features of my car (some of which I have had to pay extra for). If Tesla decided that they wanted to harvest data about me that Apple would not permit, they would simply retract their App Store listing, and send me an email that says "to activate the newest features, please download the updated app from here". Then their new app wouldn't have to be quality or security vetted. What am I supposed to do? Go trade in a six figure car? What
              • And freedom will increase. Thats ALWAYS the compromise.
                • Nope. It will decrease. The developers were free to develop their own platforms, devices, and services. Apple did just that. But the freedom for all to build such a platform as Apple has found success doing is now removed. The overall freedom was reduced. This is like the Sovietâ(TM)s saying the freedoms of all were increased because everyone has a bedroom but no family can live by themselves in a house. Apple lost that kind of freedom, as did everyone else, once they try to build a curated App Store.

              • Except that, just like on Android, there will be all kinds of scary warnings and hoops for the user to jump through to enable side-loading/3rd party app store(s) that no developer is going to want to support.

                Imagine the support calls that Tesla would get if they chose to go that route. The blowback would be too high a cost for them to try it.

                That's what we have already seen in the Android world where side-loading and 3rd party app stores have been a thing since its inception.

              • Then their new app wouldn't have to be quality or security vetted.

                So the failure would be on Tesla, not on Apple. I'm hard pressed to see an appreciable difference. If anything it should be on Tesla. If they can't do a safe phone app it does not say much about the software in your car.

                What if my workplace HR department has an app for managing my payroll?

                Again security would be on them. Extra bonus points if they fail at that while letting you use a personal device for business.

                Now, the quality will lessen.

                I think you are making unfounded suppositions. The quality of the app store will remain the same. You assume you will have less choice, which is exactly what pe

                • Apple can do no wrong. If Apple bans sideloading, I must say that sideloading is bad. As anyone who thinks otherwise (such as the EU) must be wrong.

                  Amen.

                • Tesla or the HR app may seek to enrich themselves by profiting from my data. Apple stopped them. It can no longer. That is on Tesla, but Apple was putting them in check. Not anymore. That is my point.
                  • If you don't like Tesla's business practices, that would be a good reason to not own a Tesla. If the only thing standing between you and Tesla's business practices is Apple...that would still be a good reason to not own a Tesla.

                    If anything, app writers will be able to use "Apple App Store certified" as a selling point for people like yourself. App writers have certainly not fled the Google Play store just because sideloading is possible. Tesla has an Android app on the Play Store as well, even though

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            And yet it's been that way forever on Android, and your fears have not come true. All my banking apps are in the Play Store. I block their telemetry.

            • You block their telemetry. I don't want to need to block or even let them have the ability to send telemetry. We are not the same.

              • If the Apple app store is so great, people will refuse to install anything coming from another store... won't they?

                • Yes, it's pretty much what happens on android as well. Fringe users use other app stores, but most use google's. As long as apple makes controls that can ensure my family cant' use 3rd party app downloads/stores I'm cool with it.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by swell ( 195815 )

            Saloomy makes good points. Apple has the power to limit the aggressive crapware that some developers want to add to their apps. That is a very important incentive to users who want their phone to behave.

            Hackers, however, seem flummoxed by this. They want the freedom to stick anything that catches their eye on their phone. A new game with an exciting name? Count me in!

            I have a hunch that regular Apple users will be very suspicious of any 'store' outside Apple. They want to use their phone without unexpected

            • Yes, people will be suspicious of stores outside Apples in general, but given how many game launcher/game stores exist on PC I think that the same sort of thing will happen on iphones too.

              With "names you know" likely taking a stab at it and some succeeding some failing. Many/most of them will be limited in scope, like the game stores I mentioned.

              • It will first break when the App you know that works with that thing you bought like the DVR for your house starts vanishing from Apples store and your options are to side load it and whatever it wants you to have, or buy a new DVR, or forego the experience you paid for when it was just an App Store app. The alternative will cause App Developers to direct their users around it to load the lucrative crap ware. Expect the stickiest Apps to start first, like car management, insurance companies, home appliance

                • It will first break when the App you know that works with that thing you bought like the DVR for your house starts vanishing from Apples store and your options are to side load it and whatever it wants you to have, or buy a new DVR, or forego the experience you paid for when it was just an App Store app. The alternative will cause App Developers to direct their users around it to load the lucrative crap ware. Expect the stickiest Apps to start first, like car management, insurance companies, home appliance connectivity, etc.

                  This.

              • You forgdt one important difference, dame launchers on pc is relatively new thing, something that we accept, but we can still remember installing games without launchers ( well at least some of us). Smartphones/tablets are another kettle of fish, there the app stores where a fact of life since third parry apps became a thing ( at least on Apple devices), so having to install a third party store just to get an app aint gonna fly, unless ofc it's your banks app. But it ain't gonna happen banks don't want to

          • Re:Good. (Score:4, Insightful)

            by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @05:44AM (#63129562)

            we will not be able to download apps like BofA in the regular App Store

            No you won't. You won't for the same reason that major companies keep selling games on Steam. Rolling your own doesn't help you when you force customers to jump through hoops when they instead expect their product to be available as a single click on the system they are familiar with.

            No one voluntarily forgoes putting their software or service in a market place that people actually use.

            In other news, every Android software you have ever heard used is in the Google Play store. Why? Because despite the fact that you were able to sideload since day 1, developers are acutely aware that people don't do that.

            The ecosystem will be fine. It will remain healthy. And above all, you as a consumer now have an additional choice should you run into a situation (e.g. that the latest published Seafile version on Android has a bug on my phone so I sideloaded an older version from Github).

            Thanks EU indeed.

          • Again, competition will fix this.
            Either people will migrate to BofAClone (Which is available in the regular store), or Apple will reduce its fees so that BofA goes back to the regular store.
            Or if they don't, and they really go to BofA.com to download a 3rd party app-store software, then it's because they do not consider the benefits of Apple's store to be valuable enough.

            Competition may also force Apple to reduce fees in its store.

  • The idea was they would also have to allow sideloading [theverge.com], which seems like a given if you allow app stores but one can't be sure

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fj3k ( 993224 )

      I anticipate that Apple will find some loophole to undercut the whole thing.

      Like, for your app to be installed through a third-party appstore, it still has to be checked and signed by Apple, and they'll charge $1000 for that. Double if your app takes payment.

    • Personally, I'm wondering if they'll only allow "vetted" app providers in. That is, I want to run an app store, so I apply to Apple, get my agreement and then become installable on apple phones. The apps I provide have to go through some sort of vetting process, which is occasionally audited by apple, but means I don't have to follow app store rules about not duplicating features or whatever, but I must still have some sort of security/privacy in the checks I do on apps. Goodness knows what commercial agree

  • Eat that... Apple (Score:3, Insightful)

    by etash ( 1907284 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:25PM (#63128324)
    Imagine how much would they/everyone been crying if MS only allowed apps to be installed from its store on Windows PCs.

    • The Google Play store allows emulators. Steam allows emulators. The Windows Store allows emulators. The Apple App Store is the only one that doesn't.
      The apple store also has more centership then the others.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The thing you're imagining is called "XBox."

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      if MS only allowed apps to be installed from its store on Windows PCs.

      That is exactly how it is in Windows 10/11 in S-Mode. Currently it is possible to change the Windows edition to activate normal version and switch out of S Mode and run programs outside the store, but that might not always be the case on all devices for the future.

    • I stopped using Windows as a desktop OS because of security and quality challenges all those shitty apps have. Imagine if your iPhone had the same shitty experience Windows has with updates and incompatibilities. Update .Net recently?

    • That really depends on when you're talking about. Between 1995 and 2015 that probably would have been a huge antitrust issue. They had a monopoly and that would clearly leverage their monopoly in an anti-competitive manner. Even today, when you consider the computers used by most businesses, they are shackled to the Microsoft ecosystem.

      Another big difference is that it would be a sort of bait-and-switch. It's not like the iPhone used to be an open platform and then all of a sudden Apple started demanding re

  • Alternate app stores 100% bypass Apple?

    How about payment methods that bypass Apple?

    • CNBC is reporting it's EU only. So there will be an EU version of iOS and a US version.

      • That won't last. If they can do it for the EU, then they can clearly do it anywhere, and they will be made to sooner or later.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dmay34 ( 6770232 )

          It's unlikely they will make it EU only. That would cause all kinds of problems and bad press. Think "Why you can install XBox app in Europe but not in the US", etc.

          • It's unlikely they will make it EU only. That would cause all kinds of problems and bad press. Think "Why you can install XBox app in Europe but not in the US", etc.

            Because the EU has an oppressive government that likes to micromanage corporations. It's no different than why they have to censor things in China.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        CNBC is reporting it's EU only. So there will be an EU version of iOS and a US version.

        If USB-C is EU-only, too, I predict a very large market for grey-market imports.

  • One small step for a man (Score:3)

    by s4080326 ( 5462622 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:26PM (#63128332)
    Great first step, I hope google decides to not be evil and we can have a single purchase option for both Android and iPad because I've given up on an solid android tablet experience.

  • Ouch. This is at least second article from Bloomberg this week. It shows me only the first paragraph.

    Is Bloomberg that good or is it advertisement to get more Bloomberg subscribers?

    Register to read more. Create an account and unlock 1 bonus article.

    • Most of the time bloomberg's article is pretty lousy, but this time they are the primary source for this story. The other outlets are reporting that they reported this.

  • Android has always done it right (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:02PM (#63128438)

    People are going to hate me for saying this, but Google has always done it right with Android and the Google Play store. A user *CAN* install an alternative store, but they have to go through a number of settings and preference hoops and scary sounding warnings to get there. This is the way it should be done, because 90% of user should not be side loading apps. If you cannot jump through the hoops to install a competing app store, then you shouldn't be installing a competing app store. Your phone has way way way too much personal information on it that most people shouldn't be taking those kinds of security risks. Just shopping on the Play store itself is risky enough.

    If you are comfortable enough with your device to go through the settings and accept all of the scary pop-ups, then you should be able to install any app store you like.

    This is what Apple should do with iOS.

    • Android store is more open to stuff that apple blocks

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dmay34 ( 6770232 )

        I'm totally 100% okay with Apple blocking stuff from their store. I actually wish Google would be a bit more proactive in blocking more of their stuff so that Android developers would have to raise the quality of their products like they have to do with iOS.

        But I also think that a person should be able to install competing app stores on both iOS and Android so that the stores themselves can't monopolize all software on their OS.

      • Android store is more open to stuff that apple blocks

        Yes. I can even have a wifi scanner app on my Galaxy, which is very handy. Apple does not allow such things, which is very lame.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's even better in recent versions of Android. The app can send the user to the setting screen to allow just that app to install other apps with one tap. There is a warning, but it's not too bad. Informed consent, but scaremongering.

      It's very handy. I use F Droid for open source apps.

    • > If you are comfortable enough with your device to go through the settings and accept all of the scary pop-ups, then you should be able to install any app store you like.

      Unfortunately, no. Look at F-Droid. It can't do automated updates unless you're rooted. One can easily argue that updates are even more important than installation.

      Google maintains its home-turf advantage - aka anti-competitive behavior.

  • Bad move, IMO .... (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 )

    This essentially sets a precedent in the EU, at least, that nobody building a computer hardware product legally has the option of controlling which software applications will be available to run on it.

    If I was Apple right now, I'd definitely want to ask why Nintendo or Sony have dedicated stores for their respective consoles, and they're not allowing side-loading.

    I mean, realistically, anyone can hack a product to make it do things unintended by the original manufacturer. That's fine and should be completel

  • If the EU is going to force the situation so people can install software on their phones from anywhere, that would imply people could install software which is not GDPR compliant.

    So, how would the EU expect to enforce the GDPR? Why wouldn't 'free' versions (or cloned knock-offs) of software (that incidentally harvest all personal information) start showing up for downloads hosted in places outside the reach of the EU?

  • Well, there goes the neighborhood!

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