Apple Scales Back Self-Driving Car and Delays Debut Till '26 56
Apple has scaled back ambitious self-driving plans for its future electric vehicle and postponed the car's target launch date by about a year to 2026, Bloomberg reported Tuesday, citing people with knowledge of the matter. From the report: The car project, dubbed Titan inside the company, has been in limbo for the past several months as Apple executives grappled with the reality that its vision for a fully autonomous vehicle -- without a steering wheel or pedals -- isn't feasible with current technology. In a significant shift for the project, the company is now planning a less-ambitious design that will include a steering wheel and pedals and only support full autonomous capabilities on highways, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the information is private. [...] Apple had expected each car to sell for more than $120,000, but the company is now aiming to offer the vehicle to consumers for less than $100,000, according to the people.
"[...] sell [...] for under $100,000" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I'd like an EV equivalent of a corvette...or hell, most any 2-seater sports car.
I've never owned a "family" car with > 2 seats and don't want to start now.
I figure I'll have to give up shifting with an EV, but at least let me keep the sports car looks and performance, eh?
Re: (Score:3)
There are lots of 2-seater electric sports cars (Rimac C-Two, Pininfarina Battista, Aspark Owl, AC Cobra) but their price tags make the $100k Apple car look like a bargain.
Re: (Score:1)
Yeah, I need one in the corvette price range.
Hell, it would be a much smaller car....should be LESS than a corvette, eh?
I mean, a Miata sized EV would still have massive accleration and performance...but being so small, should be much less than a corvette.
I'd think they'd sell like hotcakes....like back in the days when the 240Z and 2
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> WTF can't they do that now?
China can.
https://www.theautopian.com/an... [theautopian.com]
Re:"[...] sell [...] for under $100,000" (Score:4, Informative)
Apple will always aim for the high-margin market so if even they are lowering their sights that gives me hope their market forecasts see EV's coming down in price.
Or, someone at Apple knows how to do a web search. Yes, Apple is going to target the high margin market. I don't think anyone was expecting Apple to match Toyota's sub-$30K price tag for the Prius Prime...but $125K isn't just 'high margin', it's more expensive than a 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+ sedan to the point where you could use the change to buy an ICE Hyundai Elentra. $125K is three Tesla Model 3's.
The only thing Apple can bring to the table to differentiate itself effectively is if, as per the title, they do self-driving, at near-miraculous levels of efficacy, on release day. Even so, this is only viable if Apple also is able to sort out insurance and liability as well; I'm not buying a vehicle that requires me to roll the dice that I'd be personally liable for an accident their software caused. If they can make that work AND they can figure out the software update thing for a car's general lifespan AND it's as posh as a Benz AND it has a manual mode for those times that software isn't the solution, THEN they might have something...but if not, they'll be releasing an expensive car in a crowded market with established players who will do it at least as well, if not better.
Re: (Score:2)
The only thing Apple can bring to the table to differentiate itself effectively is if, as per the title, they do self-driving, at near-miraculous levels of efficacy, on release day.
I don't agree with that. They could bring their brand and styling, for example. EVs give a lot more freedom in cabin design, especially if everything is a jellybean anyway and therefore has lots of room for crap in there. Or, as I would suspect in Apple's case, just more room and less crap — probably with a distinct paucity of physical controls.
if not, they'll be releasing an expensive car in a crowded market with established players who will do it at least as well, if not better.
I don't think Apple is going to try to manufacture their own car the first time. They either pair with a major brand automaker or a contract automaker, both ar
Re: (Score:2)
100K seems to be the going rate for higher-end electric cars at the moment. If you recently bought a Rivian, a Hummer EV, or a new Tesla Model S, odds are you paid around that amount for it.
The real question is when long-range electric vehicles will actually become affordable to people who aren't 1 %ers. The Tesla Model 3 was supposed to be somewhat affordable, but even that car costs around $50,000 now.
Re: "[...] sell [...] for under $100,000" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You may have forgotten all the headlines about inflation, etc.
Even a moderately equipped Honda CRV will cost you $40k these days. $50k for a long range EV that saves you far more than $10k in lifetime service costs is really only a problem because of the TCO being front-loaded in comparison to other ICE vehicles that end up costing you more on the back-end in service.
Yes, this is a bit of justification, but only a bit because I would hope that cost-conscious drivers are looking at total costs, rather than
with an $10,000 year 3 service needed (Score:5, Funny)
with an $10,000 year 3 service needed.
don't forget the add ones.
home changer kits $1000-$5000
apple changer to tesla charger plug $1000
apple changer to CHAdeMO $1000
apple changer to CCS $1000
apple mobile data $30/mo (ROAMING IS AN ADDED CHANGE!)
Re: (Score:2)
The Chinese entry into the EV market looks to make much more accessible EV, but who knows when that will be for the US.
I never understood where Apple was planning to position itself in the EV market. We always compare Apple to Mercedes, and that it why there is value for the money, but Mercedes has rather EQS for 100k. Apple canâ(TM)t compete on price.
Re: (Score:2)
Why are you adding a bunch of useless shit nobody needs on there? CHAdeMO is a dead standard that literally nobody, including Nissan who invented it, is installing plugs for, or building cars for. It may as well be the FireWire of EVs.
Even though Apple has a penchant for proprietary charging plugs (iPod 30-pin, lightning), they usually get there because the market doesn't have an acceptable plug already. When there is one, Apple uses it (usb-pd). So why would Apple come up with their own when they could
Re: (Score:2)
For Apple Fanboys Only? (Score:2)
only 3 years? (Score:3)
Something they have no ability or skill to make, and that comes with liability issues since deaths will happen as with any other vehicle, should be pushed off past 2030 I'd think.
What a farce.
Re: (Score:3)
Whether this will be more like the Apple Rockr [cultofmac.com] (i.e. branding exercise) or the iPhone, I am interested to see.
Re: (Score:1)
I would think Volkswagen would be a good choice, but if going for premium...why not get Porsche to make it for them?
Re: (Score:2)
The Germans won't do it cheap, that's why. Most of the Koreans' problems seem to be in fuel systems that won't be present on an Apple car.
Re: only 3 years? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The Germans won't do it cheap, that's why. .
Henrik Fisker's $40k Ocean began production at Magna Steyr's factory in Graz 2 weeks ago
Re: (Score:2)
Magna Steyr is owned by Canadians
Re: (Score:2)
Magna Steyr is owned by Canadians
I've met Belinda Stronach. If it could ever be said of any woman that the light in her eyes was because of the sun shining through the hole in the back of her head, it would be her. Never met Frank but I did work briefly for a businessman who claimed to have helped Frank with a somewhat shady property deal that netted them both a nice payday. That deal would have been back in the late 50s or early 60s.
In any case he's Austrian, didn't migrate to Canada until he was already an adult and from what I've heard
Re: (Score:2)
Would any of those company's touch Apple's claimed capabilities for a car in the next four years though? I'd doubt it, they know better.
Yeah, 2030 or later.
Makes sense to hold off (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it makes a lot of sense to hold off production of something like a new car form a company that has never done cars - especially heading into a strong multi-year recession. Might have to be later than 2026.
In the meantime, we'll get more clarity around what the entire market will be doing in regards to electric cars, around supply of materials, around hydrogen vs. battery, and advancements in AI around self driving.
Apple has always worked best when it condenses features from around a market and comes up with a more refined product, so the bigger the electric car market gets the better Apple's offering will be.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple is partnering with auto-makers. They won't be building their own vehicle by themselves but rather focusing on the software side of things, while the existing vehicle maker does the main hardware part.
Re: (Score:1)
Apple is partnering with auto-makers.
I don't think this is a CarPlay situation, though maybe they would be partnering with one other auto maker... but I see the car design as being pretty distinctly Apple.
Admittedly though I've not kept up on any Apple Car news, that's just my take on what an Apple Car would eventually be regardless of what rumors say.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Certainly is different for them. But it makes sense with such a complicated device like a car. Even Tesla started with someone else making most of the car and them just electrifying it.
Re: (Score:1)
I think it makes a lot of sense to hold off...
"In Soviet Apple, reaching a goal holds itself off."
Seriously, though; there's nothing to "hold off" - they're merely admitting that the result they're hoping for will take a lot longer than the earlier figure they [misled their investors' with.]
I make a lot of jokes about Timmy in dresses but anyone who's followed my unsteady stream of vitriol knows I don't give a fuck about anyone's orientation. Rather, I can identify a sociopath when I see one - and since the brain has to be in marginal condition in the
fanboy comments are hilarious (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
People, luxury cars are easily in the 100k-200k range. Saying this car is only for fanboys is just dragging a tired cliche out yet again...
No doubt. I have a friend who owns a $500k Bentley. It's a really nice ride.
On the other hand, $100k is still about twice the current US median car price. And I'm surprised it's not 3x. Dang, I'm never buying a new car again.
Re: (Score:2)
Some luxury cars, yes. But for example a BMW 540i can be had for about $60,000. Is the Apple car going to be that much nicer than that?
Has Apple shown they are anywhere close? (Score:3)
Seems like they are trying to "buy in" to self driving since they have money and resources to spare but really based on what we know they certainly seem to be running behind Waymo, Cruise, Tesla and even OpenPilot, all who already have vehichles out in the real world testing and collecting real world data as we speak.
This seems like a case of jumping into a market thinking they can dominate it by sheer force of will and dollars. Do we know if they have some secret sauce ready to surprise the world with, bbecause the summary certainly makes it sound like they do not.
Subscription (Score:1)
120k? Full self driving can't be had (Score:5, Insightful)
The technology simply doesn't exist for fully autonomous on the road. Push it back to 2026? Try 2076.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:120k? Full self driving can't be had (Score:5, Funny)
at ANY price. I've got 500k to spend on a full self driving vehicle. Any options? Nope? How about a million? Still no. A hundred million? Really?
For that much money you could pay a human driver to hide under the hood and drive it from there.
Re: (Score:2)
may need an few million to cover bail / court / etc when that self driveing car kills some one and the driver (in the eyes of the state having access to the keys / app) = in control that is why you can get an DUI while sleeping in an car even with it off even when you are sleeping in the back seat.
Re: (Score:2)
but the person who takes an airline is not seen as in control nor seen as the owner.
But with an car the owner may very well be at fault or even the renter can be at fault as well.
So by going based on how things are now with cars and renting cars calling an ride in an self driving car may make you an renter and at fault for any damage (or more with that EULA)
as for things like an DUI let's see one person in the car that likely makes them in control and they have an app on the phone that can trigger the car t
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't matter. I'm saying none of that will stop the tech.
Re: (Score:2)
Human drivers don't need millions of dollars to cover the risk of driving, and they kill people all the time.
Re: (Score:2)
An expensive Apple car is a car of the Doucherati. Complete with tight pants, fancy coffee, and airpods, the Doucherati are on the scene to be seen. Please tell me that the Apple Car is an extra large white SUV.
Did you ever see the Apple yacht? It makes the Tesla Cybertruck look pretty.
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Unannounced (Score:4, Insightful)
An unannounced change in an unannounced release date for an unannounced product, yet people are very confident that this confirms their priors about Apple.
Re: (Score:1)
...yet people are very confident that this confirms their priors about Apple.
Actually, we're quite certain that it does.
Apple uber alles (Score:2)
Titan is a joke (Score:2)
Apple can’t ”pause” (Score:2)
Titan was disbanded. The tech mothballed and people deployed in the project let go.
This pause doesn’t even amount to a ploy, much less an advertisement for a vaporous product. So limp is the Titan that feigning pause, Apple resurrecting the dead.isn’t ever gonna happen.
But AAPL wants you to know it exists in the EV space even if it occupies the deepest grave.
Powered by... (Score:2)
They have to wait because it will be powered by fusion, available any day now.