Apple's Repair Program Creates 'Excruciating Gauntlet of Hurdles', iFixit Says (theverge.com) 63
On Monday, Apple expanded its DIY repair program to include MacBook Air and MacBook Pro laptops equipped with M1 chips (including the Pro and Max). At least, in theory. The repairability experts at iFixit, who regularly dissect Apple's gadgets, have taken a look at the new program, and their outlook is...mixed. iFixit's Sam Goldheart writes that the new MacBook Pro guides "threw us for a loop." The issue: the documentation "makes MacBook Pros seem less repairable" than they have been in the past. From a report: The repair manual for replacing the 14-inch MacBook Pro's battery, for example, is a whole 162 pages long. (One of the first steps, of course, is "Read the entire manual first.") The reason the guide is so long, it turns out, is that replacing these batteries isn't just a matter of popping the battery out. A user needs to replace the entire top case and keyboard in order to replace the battery. Needless to say, it is unusual for a laptop battery replacement to require a full-computer teardown.
And then, as Goldheart points out, there's the matter of the money. The "top case with battery" part that you'll need to purchase for the 2020 and 2021 MacBook Pro models is not cheap -- after rooting around Apple's store, Verge editor Sean Hollister found that you can expect to pay well upwards of $400 for the top case with battery after the repair credit. "Apple is presenting DIY repairers with a excruciating gauntlet of hurdles: read 162 pages of documentation without getting intimidated and decide to do the repair anyway, pay an exorbitant amount of money for an overkill replacement part, decide whether you want to drop another 50 bucks on the tools they recommend, and do the repair yourself within 14 days, including completing the System Configuration to pair your part with your device," Goldheart writes in summary. "Which makes us wonder, does Apple even want better repairability?"
And then, as Goldheart points out, there's the matter of the money. The "top case with battery" part that you'll need to purchase for the 2020 and 2021 MacBook Pro models is not cheap -- after rooting around Apple's store, Verge editor Sean Hollister found that you can expect to pay well upwards of $400 for the top case with battery after the repair credit. "Apple is presenting DIY repairers with a excruciating gauntlet of hurdles: read 162 pages of documentation without getting intimidated and decide to do the repair anyway, pay an exorbitant amount of money for an overkill replacement part, decide whether you want to drop another 50 bucks on the tools they recommend, and do the repair yourself within 14 days, including completing the System Configuration to pair your part with your device," Goldheart writes in summary. "Which makes us wonder, does Apple even want better repairability?"
You don't have to wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course they are not interested in repairability. Apple has no interest in making it easy to repair and are being more-or-less coerced into it. They are making it as hard as possible to try to discourage it. TFA is disengenuous asking such a silly question.
Brett
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Re:You don't have to wonder (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course they are not interested in repairability. Apple has no interest in making it easy to repair and are being more-or-less coerced into it. They are making it as hard as possible to try to discourage it. TFA is disengenuous asking such a silly question.
Brett
Possibly, but I don't think that's quite what's going on:
1) They make their money through shiny new things more than "replace because it broke". So they'd probably prefer them to be repairable because it's a good rep for the company.
2) However, they'd prefer they'd be repaired by Apple. Partially they don't need to worry about 3rd party repair shops doing a bad job and giving their devices a bad reputation, but they'd also like people entering the Apple Store to get a device repaired and maybe buy something while they're there. For this reason they're going to discourage DIY repairs
3) There's an additional factor where they want the build to be as clean and compact as possible. Packing things that tightly means that you end up making repairs more difficult. For example, instead of creating access points on the top and bottom of the laptop you save a few millimetres by making the only access point through the top and forcing people to do weird things like take out the keyboard to replace the battery.
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I thought the GP was quite accurate. Dunno what you are whinging about.
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1) "They make money selling new stuff, but not new stuff that is to replace old, broke stuff, just new stuff! And so they are doing repairs for their reputation." This is fucking nonsensical, can you even explain it yourself?
2) Wait, I thought Apple made it's money selling shiny new stuff? So why would they care if people repair things with a third party? Oh, they want to sell you more new stuff while they inconvenience you by requiring you to go to one of their stores. And this point is posited as a benig
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Possibly, but I don't think that's quite what's going on:
1) They make their money through shiny new things more than "replace because it broke".
Simply not true.
The other day I needed a new charger for a 2016 Macbook Air. I went to an Apple store and they had one. It took me 10 minutes.
What other manufacturer gives you that? Where the hell would I get a new Dell/Lenovo/Asus/whatever charger? I've got no idea.
Same goes for screen repairs and battery swaps. Where would I go the fix my Xiaomi/Samsung phone's screen?
I don't own anything Apple personally but I recognize a support network when I see it.
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That works fine if you even have an Apple store relatively close by. See if you have the same experience when you don't live in a city with an Apple store. You can order a Lenovo, Dell, Samsung, etc. replacement from Amazon and get just as fast as you can get an Apple power adapter from Amazon.
If your city does have an Apple store you could probably go to any reasonably big computer shop and get a power adapter for Dell, Lenovo, Hp or Samsung just as easily as you can get an adapter from the Apple store (es
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Oh, my gosh, yes. That was the second-worst disassembly I've ever done, second only to replacing the battery in an iPod Touch, where the a**hole hardware designers decided to SOLDER the F**KING BATTERY TO THE MOTHERBOARD.
The Time Capsule cables are too short, there's no easy way to connect or disconnect the various connectors because of their position, the drive is held in by these rubber pieces that have so much drag that they're impossible to pull out without compressing the drive so much that you worry
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second only to replacing the battery in an iPod Touch, where the a**hole hardware designers decided to SOLDER the F**KING BATTERY TO THE MOTHERBOARD
Yeah, it's not ideal, but it's not really that difficult to replace. I've done it twice, and it was three touches with a soldering iron, and done. Sure, a snap connector would've been easier.
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Oh, my gosh, yes. That was the second-worst disassembly I've ever done, second only to replacing the battery in an iPod Touch, where the a**hole hardware designers decided to SOLDER the F**KING BATTERY TO THE MOTHERBOARD.
The Time Capsule cables are too short, there's no easy way to connect or disconnect the various connectors because of their position, the drive is held in by these rubber pieces that have so much drag that they're impossible to pull out without compressing the drive so much that you worry you're going to destroy it physically.... It's a TERRIBLE hardware design from a repairability perspective.
We need right to repair laws, and we need them now. And part of any good right to repair law MUST be a requirement that all products be DESIGNED to be serviceable.
Hmmm.
Someone did the final assembly on that Time Capsule, and iFixit publishes a Repair Guide; so perhaps you simply don't know the proper sequence of disassembly/reassembly. Not your fault; but Apple has a penchant for cables that are exactly the right length.
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/... [ifixit.com]
Pro Tip: Stop thinking you know everything, and see if someone has already been there. I searched for "time capsule ifixit", and had the linked Landing Page up in a few seconds.
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Partially they don't need to worry about 3rd party repair shops doing a bad job and giving their devices a bad reputation
Sorry but that is horseshit.
a) why would a 3rd party repair affect Apple's reputation? I mean other than them intentionally bricking devices which 3rd parties attempt to repair.
b) there's zero evidence that Apple's "geniuses" are in any way doing a better job than third parties.
c) third party repairs have historically provided an effectively perfect results without any need for Apple's BS much less 162 pages of it. E.g. the iPhone screen replacement kit from Apple which is 50 pages long, includes 70lbs of w
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Partially they don't need to worry about 3rd party repair shops doing a bad job and giving their devices a bad reputation
Sorry but that is horseshit.
a) why would a 3rd party repair affect Apple's reputation? I mean other than them intentionally bricking devices which 3rd parties attempt to repair.
Because the machine still won't work right.
b) there's zero evidence that Apple's "geniuses" are in any way doing a better job than third parties.
I've no specific experience with Apple, but in general brand names do better quality in most things because they have a reputation to uphold (they also cost more).
For example, I found a cheap independent place to fix my Samsung phone screen and he did a terrible job, that bad job didn't really hurt his reputation because he didn't have much of a reputation.
c) third party repairs have historically provided an effectively perfect results without any need for Apple's BS much less 162 pages of it. E.g. the iPhone screen replacement kit from Apple which is 50 pages long, includes 70lbs of worth gear that they will ship to you, and doesn't do the job in any better way than the $5 worth of tools you buy on ebay, the latter of which is faster and easier to use as well.
Apple is intentionally setting their repair program up to fail in an effort to gaslight the repair industry.
As I said, I got a screen replacement for my Samsung phone and it the digitizer wasn't quite centred, the back
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Did you blame Samsung for the bad repairs the shop in your example describe?
If you aren't blaming Samsung for an inept repair person why would people blame Apple if they made it easier for repair shops other than Apple stores to make repairs to Apple products?
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Apple doesn't really repair anything. As TFA notes, to do a simple battery replacement, a part which at best is consumable with a limited lifespan, you have to replace the entire top part of the laptop. It can't be separated, you have to dismantle half the machine and buy an entire new top part that happens to include a battery. It also includes the keyboard, speakers and various electronics.
Some people do repair things. They replace the part that is broken, or implement a work-around. Apple just throws awa
Re:You don't have to wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think Apple really cares one way or the other.
I think Apple's view is
- We actually design our products such they should not require physical repairs unless abused. (keyboard issues last generation not withstanding)
- We design for manufacturing cost control, that is we glue stuff together, we have significant sub-assemblies that might be contracted out and delivered to us as whole items etc. The savings there more then offset the costs of discarding lots of good kit for want of one bad component on warranty work, for non-warranty work we just pass those costs on so again we don't care..
- There actually is a correct assembly and disassembly procedure for a lot of this stuff the minimizes stress on components, breakage risk, time, alignment problems etc. We invest in training our support staff in that. So yeah you can read the 160p document the engineering team made because nobody is going to demo this stuff for you and we are not creating a whole special set more digestible training material for external distribution because there is nothing in it for us and we don't care.
I really don't think any of their behavior is malicious, not even the serialization of pairing of some components because they DO have problems with counterfeit product or have. They are not trying to make it harder for you, they just are not doing anything beyond what is minimally required by law to make it easier for you; because Apple just does not see the ability to do DIY repair work as important. In fact I rather suspect they see their segment of the market as the least likely to want to self repair compared to say the guy buying a Dell. Which is not to say there are not a bunch of Apple users out there that want to DIY but that is function there being a lot of of Apple users not them being a large fraction of the customer base, and they not switching away from Apple either because they can fix their MacBook with some eyeglass tools and a pair of pliers.
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Also, this stuff wasn't made for DIY repairs to begin with - Apple assumes there's a certain level of proficiency in the repairs, while the DIY program unfortunately opens it up to people who literally use a butter knife as a universal screwdriver.
And lots of things need access to Apple's internal servers which complicates the repair so Apple needs to figure out a way to get around it, resulting in locking parts and all that.
The product wasn't made for the iFixit crowd - Apple is testing the waters and is t
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I think Apple's view is
- We actually design our products such they should not require physical repairs unless abused.
If they're actually arrogant enough to believe that, then they should give the money back to the shareholders and shut down now, because they have no business designing hardware.
The fact of the matter is that some parts are wear items, and fail over time, period. This includes flash storage, batteries, backlight tubes (I guess they don't use those anymore), the surface of your trackpad, electrolytic capacitors (in general), etc. Batteries, in particular, are a *major* wear item, and should be as easy as p
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You believe what you want to believe. The truth is unless you got some internal memos in hand you and I don't know why they did things the way they did/do we are just guessing.
As far as batteries go - The life cycle of modern laptop is about 36 months. Sure a lot people use them MUCH longer than that. I will also agree the advantage in getting faster CPUs, more / faster memory, faster storage for most users on the sub 36months of progress time scale has vanished for most users in the past 15 years or so. Ho
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You believe what you want to believe. The truth is unless you got some internal memos in hand you and I don't know why they did things the way they did/do we are just guessing.
As far as batteries go - The life cycle of modern laptop is about 36 months. Sure a lot people use them MUCH longer than that.
If you ignore corporate purchasing and other people who use the computers for their jobs, I'm pretty sure almost everyone uses them much longer than that. I think the average for purely consumer laptops is closer to five or six years.
I will also agree the advantage in getting faster CPUs, more / faster memory, faster storage for most users on the sub 36months of progress time scale has vanished for most users in the past 15 years or so. However Apple really still sees their customers and their customers still see themselves as wanting cutting edge stuff. I think it comes back to Apple hardly sees you if you keeping a MacBook or iPhone past 3 generations or so; normally the batteries ARE good for that long.
I've almost never had an Apple battery last significantly longer than three years, and I've been using Apple laptops since the mid-1990s and iOS devices since 2007. My luck can't be that much worse than average. Not with that many consecutive failures.
Automakers absolutely do lock you into using genuine parts and their repair services. Yes you can use third party fasteners, or choose your own brake rotors and pads, etc but just try changing out head-unit, or and ECU/body modules without the dealer. On some cars you can't even replace things like window regulators etc without them being paired by the dealer and there is no-aftermarket because the crypto locks. I am not saying I like any of this but we are where we are. There are lot of Apple haters, but the reality is Apple is really not out of line with what most everyone else is actually doing, its just people pay them more attention.
But not wear items, gen
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And Apple batteries are, at least in my experience, not that great. Of all the Apple products I've bought with a battery this century that are more than a year old or so, only one never had a battery failure, and that was my original iPhone. I've replaced a polycarbonate MacBook battery three or four times, along with a removable MacBook Pro battery, plus internal batteries on an iPhone 6s, an iPhone 5, and an iPod Touch. And I need to replace a 15" MacBook Pro Retina battery, but haven't done it yet. The longest of those batteries (on the Retina MBP) started malfunctioning after about three or four years. The rest all failed after more like 1 year.
And third-party replacements actually have always lasted longer for me than the original battery (every time). So the notion that genuine Apple batteries are some special miracle is totally untrue. Battery tech improves over time, but the OEM battery was whatever they could buy at a given price point in the quantity that they needed on the day when they finalized the battery design, months before shipping the first product. So if your battery fails after a year, even if you bought it the first day that the model became available, any replacement is likely to be based on technology that's approaching two years newer than whatever was in your phone originally.
Horse manure.
My 2012 MacBook Pro is still on its original battery. Still holds a good charge, and can get about 5 hours' typical use on battery power. My iPhone 6 plus' battery lasted over 4 years, and was still capable of normal "Peak Performance" operation (according to Apple's Battery panel in Settings). My current iPhone 8 plus' Battery shows 81% capacity; but also supports Normal Peak Performance, and I beat the HELL out of it on a Daily basis.
I will agree wholeheartedly on the daft Packaging decision
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My 2012 MacBook Pro is still on its original battery. Still holds a good charge, and can get about 5 hours' typical use on battery power. My iPhone 6 plus' battery lasted over 4 years, and was still capable of normal "Peak Performance" operation (according to Apple's Battery panel in Settings). My current iPhone 8 plus' Battery shows 81% capacity; but also supports Normal Peak Performance, and I beat the HELL out of it on a Daily basis.
The thing about batteries is that they either grow dendrites or they don't. Lithium either forms islands too badly or it doesn't. If you're lucky, the batteries last a long time. If you aren't, your computer experiences sudden shutdowns because the battery can't produce enough instantaneous current to keep things running.
Part of it is probably a usage difference. I often use my iOS devices in cases while on external power, so that I can listen to content while driving. This combination results in extre
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That might be acceptable if Apple products were cheap, but he mark-ups are huge. When I pay that much for a machine, I expect it to be maintainable and repairable. Part of the price is that it's manufactured with screws instead of glue, and that components like the battery (which will inevitably die) and the keyboard (most common part to get damaged) are not literally welded together so they can't be replaced individually.
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> Apple has no interest in making it easy to repair...They are making it as hard as possible to try to discourage it
Just hire Microsoft's documentation writers, and nobody will every figure the damned things out.
Re:You don't have to wonder [correction] (Score:1)
Correction: "ever"
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Apple has no interest in making it easy to repair and are being more-or-less coerced into it. They are making it as hard as possible to try to discourage it.
I'd be more interested if Apple's repair prices were a total ripoff, but they're not.
Apple people spend their entire lives telling other people "it's expensive but worth it".
Where's the problem in taking it to an Apple store and having it repaired by people who do it all day long, have all the tools and will give you a warranty?
What am I missing?
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What am I missing?
Where I am, it's mostly convenience. The nearest Apple store is about 60 miles away. In some cases - warranty work, in particular - I'll refer them to Apple, since it's a net plus for the customer, in spite of the distance. But, if I can get the part for the repair, I'm probably about 5 miles or less from my customers.
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Of course they are not interested in repairability... TFA is disengenuous asking such a silly question.
Or the folks at iFixit follow the good advice of their lawyers. They made what was effectively a bold, obvious, unmistakable statement that Apple is sabotaging Right to Repair - and they did so in the form of a rhetorical question that protects them against a libel suit.
BTW, if you still think the writers were pussyfooting around the issue, have another look at the title - the phrase ‘excruciating gauntlet of hurdles' should slay any doubts you may have regarding their intentions or their honour.
The answer to the last question is no... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Which makes us wonder, does Apple even want better repairability?"
Apple wants more sales.
I just let them repair it... (Score:1)
I've not needed it much during the warranty, but the few times I did...took thing in, they either fixed it on spot or replaced it on the spot.
However, the big thing is...apple items that have been WAAAY out of apple care warranty.
I've had a phone and watch and MacBook Pro all have problems outside if apple care.
The iPhone, was a 3gs, they actually had a refurb and set it up and swapped it out for me for free.
I got another 3 or so years with that before
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My experience (coincidentally at the Lakeside Apple Store) matches yours. The folks there have fixed small, long out of warranty stuff for me (e.g., a broken laptop keycap; dust under an iMac screen) free of charge on a few occasions. Delighting the customer (and trust me, a functional S key was delightful that day) has paid off long term for Apple as I rarely consider switching to other hardware.
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Needless to say, it is unusual for a laptop battery replacement to require a full-computer teardown.
On my laptop I just open a flap on the side, pull the battery out, slap in a fresh one and I'm good to go for the rest of the day...
Plus I get a touch screen and it's convertible to a tablet, etc.
MacBook? You can keep 'em.
Battery: https://www.aliexpress.com/ite... [aliexpress.com]
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Apple's repair sucks balls.
They can't do next day on site because they solder the flash.
Lenovo still have parts in the distribution channel for my 11 year old laptop. The newer ones have captive screws on the case so you don't risk losing them when you open it up for repair and upgrade and ensuring that can be socketed is.
That's good repairability, not just to make it possible but to go the extra mile to make your life pleasant.
Apple built a repair program but kept iFixIt out (Score:5, Insightful)
iFixIt are not happy because they can't sell the parts, they can't participate in any way whatsoever.
The repair manual is exactly the same that the Apple Genius bar folks use, and the parts are the same ones they use.
Apple opened up their internal repair program for customers. But they are not interested in helping the IFixIt guys out.
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What repair program? The more time passes the more the absurd becomes reality. In order to change the battery I have to throw away half the system. My exaggeration is more realistic than the repairability of an apple product.
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It's called gaslighting the industry. Sending out an internal repair manual that their own techs don't bother reading doesn't make for good customer service. iFixIt is very much correct here, Apple's repair program is designed to fail, overly complicated and somehow pretends that the world hasn't been quite capable of fixing Apple devices without resorting to reading an entire novel on the repair process.
For equally absurd examples, look to Apple's iPhone screen replacement which involves shipping 70lbs and
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For equally absurd examples, look to Apple's iPhone screen replacement which involves shipping 70lbs and thousands of dollars of gear to achieve what has for the past decade+ been perfectly well done by a $5 plastic kit from ebay achieving the same result.
I've done upwards of 70 iPhone / iDevice repairs - an XS just the other day - and I've never needed the "gear" for repairs. Spudgers, screwdrivers, tweezers, other assorted hand tools, and occasionally a hair dryer to loosen some adhesive. That's about it. I haven't fixed the most recent iPhones, but that's because I always send warranty work straight to Apple. I'm not messing up their warranty coverage, if I can help it.
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For equally absurd examples, look to Apple's iPhone screen replacement which involves shipping 70lbs and thousands of dollars of gear to achieve what has for the past decade+ been perfectly well done by a $5 plastic kit from ebay achieving the same result.
I've done upwards of 70 iPhone / iDevice repairs - an XS just the other day - and I've never needed the "gear" for repairs. Spudgers, screwdrivers, tweezers, other assorted hand tools, and occasionally a hair dryer to loosen some adhesive. That's about it. I haven't fixed the most recent iPhones, but that's because I always send warranty work straight to Apple. I'm not messing up their warranty coverage, if I can help it.
And for you, at least now you can get Genuine Apple Batteries.
But at just $69, parts & labor included (or $49 for older phones), I don't know why ANYONE tries to do iPhone Battery Replacement themselves (or using an independent shop).
Seriously.
https://support.apple.com/ipho... [apple.com]
my bromance with iphone will be short (Score:2)
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sooner or later Fairphone or Pinephone or some other will be in the USA and i will do my iphone the same way i did my android, take a hammer to it and toss it in the bin, and finally be able to run a pure GNU/Linux phone, and both Apple and Google can be left behind
Offtopic much?
Replace battery: Panasonic Toughbook CF-MX4 (Score:5, Informative)
Here's what I do with the Panasonic Toughbook CF-MX4 I'm using for this post.
Step 1: Make sure secondary (small) battery has some juice, so you don't have to shut down the laptop when changing the main battery.
Step 2: Slide out old main battery.
Step 3: Slide in new main battery.
Step 4: Continue using laptop.
Best wishes,
Bob
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LOL!
I do the same with my CF19 - see post above.
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iFixit isn't being honest here. (Score:3)
It's not a 162 page manual to replace a battery. It's a 162 page manual covering how to replace everything. I reviewed it, it's well written and makes sense. The other complaints are valid.
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And to replace the battery, you pretty much need to replace everything :D
What do they want? (Score:2)
There are two issues that seem at play. The question of repairing units "as designed", and the question of whether or not the designs should fundamentally change in the direction of easier repairability. "Read the instruction manual completely" is a perfectly valid thing to put on a service manual. If some idiot embarks on the project with half a clue, a philips screwdriver,and a hammer, and it goes awry, it's on them.
The devices are not easy to repair - even for Apple. I don't think they're dissembling - t
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Some people think that Apple are innovative and make good hardware. You can see where they want to be innovative. They could have been innovative when it comes to making their hardware more easily repairable (and more sustainable).
Best wishes
Bob
Fuck Apple. (Score:1)
I have a 2019-era Thinkpad. Internal battery replacement -- 6 screws, one plug. External battery replacement -- two latches, no screws, no plugs. I can even pop in a larger external battery if I want 15-20 hours of usage.
But Apple dares to be different! If you buy a (Cr)Apple, you're being screwed blue in the name of fashion.
The Sad Truth (Score:2)
You'll probably have to replace the keyboard anyho (Score:2)
Typical Apple Response. (Score:2)
If Long = thorough, then Long = good (Score:2)
IBM used to publish very extensive step by step repair manuals for its PCs. They were long, and they were very very good.
It's much better than current instructions, including those published by IFixit that just say stuff like "reinstall by reversing the above steps" and it's up to you to figure out how. Even things like plugging in tiny connectors can be very tricky unless you know exactly how to do it.