Apple Announces macOS 13 Ventura, the Next Major Software Update for the Mac (arstechnica.com) 60
As expected, Apple has used the stage at its WWDC 2022 keynote to reveal the features and changes coming to macOS in the next major software update for the platform, macOS 13 Ventura. From a report: Ventura's headlining feature is a new multitasking interface called Stage Manager. It's being billed as a way to fight window clutter on a busy desktop -- enter Stage Manager mode, and one of your windows floats to the center of the screen, pushing your other windows into a compressed navigation column on the left of the screen. Click a different app window on the left, and it will fly to the center of the screen, knocking the app you were using before into the navigation column. Spotlight also gets some handy quality-of-life updates, adding the ability to Quick Look search results directly from the Spotlight window, and the ability to run Shortcuts from within Spotlight.
Safari picks up the ability to share groups of tabs with other users, letting all users add and remove tabs. The browser is also adding a FIDO-compliant security technology called PassKeys, which aim to replace passwords with cryptographically generated keys that sync between devices using iCloud Keychain. Sites that support PassKeys can be opened using TouchID or FaceID. Apple's cross-device Continuity features were also updated. FaceTime calls can be handed off seamlessly between different Macs and iDevices, while Continuity Camera allows you to use an iPhone as a webcam (your iPhone's LED can even be used as a makeshift ring light). Continuity Camera supports Center Stage and Portrait Mode effects, too, though presumably they will require newer iPhones with hardware that supports those features.
Safari picks up the ability to share groups of tabs with other users, letting all users add and remove tabs. The browser is also adding a FIDO-compliant security technology called PassKeys, which aim to replace passwords with cryptographically generated keys that sync between devices using iCloud Keychain. Sites that support PassKeys can be opened using TouchID or FaceID. Apple's cross-device Continuity features were also updated. FaceTime calls can be handed off seamlessly between different Macs and iDevices, while Continuity Camera allows you to use an iPhone as a webcam (your iPhone's LED can even be used as a makeshift ring light). Continuity Camera supports Center Stage and Portrait Mode effects, too, though presumably they will require newer iPhones with hardware that supports those features.
Again ... limited to 16gb RAM (Score:2, Insightful)
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The macbook pro supports up to 64gb, the air is limited to 16 - which isn't too bad for a thin and light laptop.
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24GB. The M1 is limited to 16GB. The M2 isn't.
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Air had 16GB limit in 2018. Apple and NeXT always skimping on the RAM for decades...
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Why is that in quotes?
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Turns out you have to "custom order" the 24gb model
By which you mean “select the configuration option for 24 GB”. Saying you have to “custom order” it makes it sound like you need to go in for a fitting of a bespoke suit. We’re talking about clicking a radio button on a website. Don’t make it sound like an ordeal that it isn’t.
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problem with soldered on RAM is 16gb isn't enough.
No, it is not limited to 16GB. You can configure it with up to 24GB.
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What are you doing that exceeds 16gb? Details please.
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On a Mac? VMs for backwards compatibility. Also editing very large images. Isn't that supposed to be a common use case for a Macintosh still?
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the Java IDE, Docker/Kubernetes, the J2EE server, ngix, a db server, chrome with multiple tabs (and 2 instances - one for work, one for personal), and a hot-swapping node bundling and serving up my UI. oh, and Firefox and/or Safari when I have to do cross-browser testing. plus anti-virus, disk decryption, and my music player.
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2 screens, 2 users for "fast user switching", a couple of virtual desktops and the memory is all gone without running any programs at all. A small 1920x1080 display now needs 8 meg of backing ram but each program will have its own double buffering so based on its window size, that is 16 m. You burn through 1/256th of the ram just running two full screen versions of text edit just for video backing. Throw in a reasonable number of apps and their windows and lots of that 16 gig ends up being swapped out vide
Stage Manager (Score:1)
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Which feature does the OS have that the world has been waiting to copy?
Improved improved mail features? Undo send... Why is this an OS update and not an application upgrade?
Improved Safari tab sharing? Again safari tab sharing is an OS update?
The spotlight image search isn't even original.
Making the OS less like an OS and more like a locked down iPad or phone might be exciting to you, but hardly set the world on fire.
Re: Stage Manager (Score:2)
If you think of OS meaning distro in the apple world it makes more sense and to your average hipster new shiny shiny on the desktop = new OS.
Well... copy. (Score:2)
Which feature does the OS have that the world has been waiting to copy?
There is one - Continuity.
The ability to copy on one device and have it work on another, and easy pointer migration across devices is pretty nice.
The passkey stuff integrated with hardware security is pretty nice also and is partly OS.
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I don't think you've used GNOME if you think it's ever been remotely Mac inspired.
Which version of GNOME do you use?
I don't use GNOME, because I hated the first release GNOME 3.0 and switched to MATE. (MATE is of course a fork of GNOME 2.x.) However, every time a new release of GNOME comes out, I look at the release coverage on Slashdot or wherever. And my non-expert opinion is that GNOME has gotten less weird and more like a copy of Mac OS X in recent releases.
For example, for GNOME 3.0 they removed the [quora.com]
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We've had alt-tabbing for a while now.
And macOS has had Command-Tabbing since about 1987.
Stage Manager is an incremental, but worthwhile, usability improvement. More lightweight than Multiple Desktops (Spaces); but much easier to manage overall.
Pet peeve Detective (Score:3, Funny)
I for one, welcome Mac Ventura Pet-Peeve Detective!
Maaaaaaac Ventura! (Score:2)
Alrighty then!
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Well, if they ever get to Sacramento (Score:2)
I just want a nice login background image (Score:2)
They were fine up until Bug Sur, then it looks like Apple hired some kid with a copy of MS paint, gave him $5 and told him to paint melting ice cream. And for [reasons] Apple wont let you change it and they went to an awful lot of trouble to prevent it too so it wasnt just some oversight,
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Apple wont let you change it and they went to an awful lot of trouble to prevent it too so it wasnt just some oversight,
Reason enough not to use it as an OS
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And for [reasons] Apple wont let you change it and they went to an awful lot of trouble to prevent it too so it wasnt just some oversight,
Really? My lockscreen is Bing's daily picture. Updates every day - and this is the app I've used since Big Sur.
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Poster said login screen, not lock screen.
yawn (Score:3)
Ventura's headlining feature is a new multitasking interface called Stage Manager. It's being billed as a way to fight window clutter on a busy desktop -- enter Stage Manager mode, and one of your windows floats to the center of the screen, pushing your other windows into a compressed navigation column on the left of the screen.
That doesn't sound like multitasking to me. The reason I have 'window clutter' is I because I need to see more than one thing at once. I emphatically do not need another way to switch between which "one window" is displayed at a time. Worse the left navigation window is basically just another taskbar with window previews... which we already have. And at first blush it looks like its actually WORSE if you want to actually multi-task with multiple SIMULTANEOSULY visible windows.
None of the other features look all that interesting either.
Another poster mused how long it would take for the other OSes to copy the feature, and I'm sure the other OSes will, because why wouldn't they? But who even cares?
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Ventura's headlining feature is a new multitasking interface called Stage Manager. It's being billed as a way to fight window clutter on a busy desktop -- enter Stage Manager mode, and one of your windows floats to the center of the screen, pushing your other windows into a compressed navigation column on the left of the screen.
That doesn't sound like multitasking to me. The reason I have 'window clutter' is I because I need to see more than one thing at once. I emphatically do not need another way to switch between which "one window" is displayed at a time. Worse the left navigation window is basically just another taskbar with window previews... which we already have. And at first blush it looks like its actually WORSE if you want to actually multi-task with multiple SIMULTANEOSULY visible windows.
None of the other features look all that interesting either.
Another poster mused how long it would take for the other OSes to copy the feature, and I'm sure the other OSes will, because why wouldn't they? But who even cares?
You can easily keep groups of Windows together, too. It's nothing like a Taskbar/Dock.
And nothing makes you use it. They just added another way to manage busy workflows, which is quite welcome on a laptop, when there might not be secondary display(s) available.
Actually, the biggest news is that they have brought Stage Manager to iPadOS (and iOS, too, IIRC).
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"You can easily keep groups of Windows together, too."
-- but then its basically the virtual desktop of Windows or Linux, with a taskbar-like UI to switch between them.
And in my experience so far these aren't as useful as they need to be because switching virtual desktops... or, let me guess... switching "stages" in Apple-speak has pretty much the same limitations as windows and linux virtual desktops? So...
- having the same window on multiple stages is kind of klunky, especially if you want it a dif
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"You can easily keep groups of Windows together, too."
-- but then its basically the virtual desktop of Windows or Linux, with a taskbar-like UI to switch between them.
And in my experience so far these aren't as useful as they need to be because switching virtual desktops... or, let me guess... switching "stages" in Apple-speak has pretty much the same limitations as windows and linux virtual desktops? So...
- having the same window on multiple stages is kind of klunky, especially if you want it a different size or position on different stages and only on a subset of them, or worse if the apps really should have a different context on the different stage (for example, its annoying when App on project A desktop's MRU list is all documents from project B on another desktop, and its defaulting to saving in a project B folder because you recently used the App on desktop B.)
- multiple monitor support is likewise a bit clumsy - maybe i want 2 monitors to be part of the virtual desktop instead of all 3 -- a stage taskbar on the left seems especially clunky for multiple monitors
- configuring and persisting and managing them between reboots is a bit awkward
- if you need more windows open on a single stage than comfortably can be open at once, you still have the window clutter issue, except now you have stage clutter too, nesting? or "sub-stage" support -
Ok I admin I'm speculating. I haven't played with it, and don't even know how it works apparently :) but really ... I've been playing with virtual desktops on linux for over a decade - which at its core is the ability to group multiple application windows and then switch between them, and on windows for years now too... how is Apple's take going to solve the issues that make them awkward for most people use? ( to the point that most people don't bother!)
And nothing makes you use it
Of course not, but then its not much of a "biggest headline feature" if I'm not going to use it.
Actually, the biggest news is that they have brought Stage Manager to iPadOS (and iOS, too, IIRC).
So the biggest headline feature of the new MacOS release is that a feature is in their mobile release? Tell me you see the irony? :p
What a load of crap.
macOS has had a Linux-Style Multiple Desktops Feature for a long, long time. This is just a different way to organize and control Window Groups.
And the reason I mentioned that Stage Manager was also being included in iPadOS in that Post was that I thought it could "share" that same explanation, without having to make a whole separate Post about it.
As if I need to justify anything to someone who couldn't be arsed to watch the Keynote; yet still think they can offer a critique of what Stag
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"What a load of crap."
I've now watched the relevant clip of the keynote.
You're right it's a LOAD OF CRAP. Much ado about almost nothing.
"As if I need to justify anything to someone who couldn't be arsed to watch the Keynote;"
I took your challenge, and watched the relevant section of the keynote. Lets talk about what's new! ... That takes us to the latest exploits of Apples crack marketing team! ... with their chakras now completely aligned... they piled onto the minibus of fuckwittery...
Who exactly do you t
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"What a load of crap."
I've now watched the relevant clip of the keynote.
You're right it's a LOAD OF CRAP. Much ado about almost nothing.
"As if I need to justify anything to someone who couldn't be arsed to watch the Keynote;"
I took your challenge, and watched the relevant section of the keynote. Lets talk about what's new! ... That takes us to the latest exploits of Apples crack marketing team! ... with their chakras now completely aligned... they piled onto the minibus of fuckwittery...
Who exactly do you think should be arsed to watch an entire hour of that self-congratulatory masturbatory drivel?Only to find out they've come up with a slight update to virtual desktops, and by its absence infer that the Finder still sucks complete ass? :p
"And the reason I mentioned that Stage Manager was also being included in iPadOS in that Post..."
But as we both obviously know... Stage Manager on ipadOS is not a feature of macOS so no matter how much of a step forward it might be for ipads ... its not moving the needle on macOS.
WTF is your problem?
I never said Stage Manager was some ground-breaking UX feature. I said it seemed like a nice tweak to Finder's Window Management. This is exactly what I said:
"They just added another way to manage busy workflows, which is quite welcome on a laptop, when there might not be secondary display(s) available."
So why are you acting like I said it was anything more than that?
Also, you must be dense to keep harping on my mention of Apple adding the same feature to iPadOS. I never touted that as a
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I was just going to walk away, but i think i see the communications failure.
"I never said Stage Manager was some ground-breaking UX feature. "
I agree you didn't say that. The article said it was the headline feature of macOS, and Apple said even more hyperbolic nonsense in the keynote.
Although I'm replying to you, I'm still arguing the claims made at the source.
If you agree, as you seem to agree, that it's merely nice tweak to the existing window management. Then I think we agree on the the small magnitude
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I was just going to walk away, but i think i see the communications failure.
"I never said Stage Manager was some ground-breaking UX feature. "
I agree you didn't say that. The article said it was the headline feature of macOS, and Apple said even more hyperbolic nonsense in the keynote.
Although I'm replying to you, I'm still arguing the claims made at the source.
If you agree, as you seem to agree, that it's merely nice tweak to the existing window management. Then I think we agree on the the small magnitude of this feature, and in turn we presumably also agree its not much a 'headline feature' for macOS. So we have no argument.
" I was saying that it was really cool that they added Stage Manager to iPadOS, too!"
Yes, again, I think we agree that as an 'aside' about iPadOS, it's a pretty cool feature.
However, you of course understand that as some sort of defense of apple's blathering about macOS its a non-sequitur. I've understood for a while now that was NOT how you meant the aside to be taken; and so, again, we seem agree.
In summary:
You never said it was a big deal on macOS, you agree its a nothing burger on macOS, but you think its cool on ipad os.
And I agree with you.
Whew! Glad we got that sorted!!!
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Sorry to Reply to my Reply; but:
Actually, I think the coolest feature added to Ventura wasn't even mentioned in the Keynote:
https://apple.slashdot.org/sto... [slashdot.org]
Not because it was some awesome technological breakthrough; but just because it has some serious potential for widening adoption of Apple Silicon based Macs, moving forward.
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Ventura's headlining feature is a new multitasking interface called Stage Manager. It's being billed as a way to fight window clutter on a busy desktop -- enter Stage Manager mode, and one of your windows floats to the center of the screen, pushing your other windows into a compressed navigation column on the left of the screen.
That doesn't sound like multitasking to me. The reason I have 'window clutter' is I because I need to see more than one thing at once. I emphatically do not need another way to switch between which "one window" is displayed at a time. Worse the left navigation window is basically just another taskbar with window previews... which we already have. And at first blush it looks like its actually WORSE if you want to actually multi-task with multiple SIMULTANEOSULY visible windows.
None of the other features look all that interesting either.
Another poster mused how long it would take for the other OSes to copy the feature, and I'm sure the other OSes will, because why wouldn't they? But who even cares?
Um, that sentence left out something pretty fundamental, it operates on groups of overlapping windows. A drastic change for iPads.
Functionally it's like what you get with virtual desktops on Linux/MacOS, but a different style of previewing and transitioning.
Pic right here https://www.apple.com/newsroom... [apple.com]
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Functionally it's like what you get with virtual desktops on Linux/MacOS
Yeah, i just made the same observation on the other subthread; after another poster clarified it. And then went on to still question whether its really a big deal... i've had it on linux for over a decade... well over, and don't find it all that useful most of the time.
A drastic change for iPads.
Perhaps, but if the "the headline feature" for macOS is an iPad feature, macOS is in deep trouble.
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Back to the Future 13 (Score:5, Insightful)
It is 2022 and Apple has just invented the task bar.
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It is 2022 and Apple has just invented the task bar.
They did that with the Dock back around 2000. Stage Manager is more like...uh...well, a bad idea. Seems like it makes some sense for iPad multitasking, but on Mac it’s an instant “no” for me.
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The real Next Major Software Update (Score:2)
Rosetta 2? (Score:2)
None of the articles seem to mention Rosetta 2. Will 64-bit Intel apps still work on Ventura?
And, more importantly - does this new OS's name signify that Apple is dumping U2 for The Eagles?
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None of the articles seem to mention Rosetta 2. Will 64-bit Intel apps still work on Ventura?
And, more importantly - does this new OS's name signify that Apple is dumping U2 for The Eagles?
Considering Apple still sells two Intel-based Macs, I sincerely doubt they are dropping Intel support anytime soon.
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Ventura Highway is a song by America from back in 1972.
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Whoops! Thanks for the correction.
I guess they're out of ideas? (Score:2)
I've found that after working in I.T. all these years? Every time I see someone with a truly cluttered desktop and/or too many applications open to easily juggle through them? The *real* problem is their lack of ability to organize and lack of discipline to close out of whatever they don't need.
If you're going to model a computer OS with a paradigm of a physical desktop with a file/folder concept? Then just like in real life, you've got to try to keep your desktop surface uncluttered and put away things you
All I wanted was to have M1 MBP Audio not suck (Score:1)
Did they announce if they've fixed this bug? The M1 Mac with Monterey is an audio downgrade from my 2012 MBP running Sierra.
2021 MacBook Pro users complain about crackling and popping audio issues - May. 10th 2022
https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/10... [9to5mac.com]
Export open windows (Score:2)
How about a way to export open tabs in Safari? I kept hitting the number of open windows limit based on how I use it, and would have to close windows to add more. I think the limit was 100 maybe. One day all of my open windows disappeared, which was a shocker. Since I kept open things I was interested in looking into later and open tabs' preview was useful to browse them, naturally the number kept growing. Unfortunately it seems impossible to actually just save all open tabs to a group of bookmarks, and to
macOS (Score:2)
is being improved straight into the ground.
Here's another doo-dad that will fit nicely alongside the other doo-dads I never use.
I guess I should be thankful that the UI is no longer 'lickable,' or that I'm sliding metal plates around on my Desktop.
But what really gets on my tit is changing behavior that existed for decades and they decided to fuck with it. The zoom button used to zoom, but now its purpose has been perverted to provide full screen so that iPad users' brains won't implode when they use a desk