Brazil Judge Says Apple Selling iPhone Without Power Adapter Is 'Abusive and Illegal' (bloomberg.com) 170
A Brazilian judge ruled that U.S. tech giant Apple engaged in an "abusive and illegal" practice by selling new iPhones without power adapters. From a report: In a decision dated April 12, regional judge Vanderlei Caires Pinheiro from Goias state in central Brazil ordered the company to pay compensation of 5,000 reais ($1,080) to a customer who made a complaint. In his ruling posted on a legal website, the judge said that the adapter is essential for the normal functioning of the iPhone, and found that the manufacturer is violating local consumer law by removing if from boxes. The decision could prove costly for the company if it is forced to compensate more Brazilian consumers, or start including accessories in products sold locally.
Wait until they discover air tools (Score:2, Interesting)
I bought an impact wrench one time to remove a really stubborn bolt on my work van. Wouldn't you know it, the damn thing didn't include an air compressor! Luckily, I already owned one, because I don't live in a country where such a dumb lawsuit would succeed.
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Re: Wait until they discover air tools (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Wait until they discover air tools (Score:4, Informative)
Before Apple removed the charger, almost all consumer electronics of all kind came with everything you needed make them work if they were standalone thing.
Heck, even the 30 euro electronic toothbrush I bought few days ago comes with everything needed to use and recharge it..
And in cases where it was not case, it was clearly marked on the packaging like "Batteries not included" in clear text on the front.
The Apple (an now after other companies like Samsung) phone boxes do not say clearly "Charger not included".
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Before Apple removed the charger, almost all consumer electronics of all kind came with everything you needed make them work if they were standalone thing.
a) False. In fact any device that requires AA or AAA batteries doesn't ship with a charger, and usually didn't even ship with batteries.
b) You do not need a charger to make the phone work. They give you a cable which allows you to plug in to a myriad of palaces to charge the device.
In other news I just recently bought a slow cooker. It unfortunately did not come with a bundled power station.
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> False. In fact any device that requires AA or AAA batteries doesn't ship with a charger, and usually didn't even ship with batteries.
Why did you not quote the part where I said that?
> You do not need a charger to make the phone work. They give you a cable which allows you to plug in to a myriad of palaces to charge the device.
Tell that to my cousin who finally updated his 7-8 year old phone last year after the charger fried. He does not have a computer or such. So I do not know where he would plug i
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Before Apple removed the charger, almost all consumer electronics of all kind came with everything you needed make them work if they were standalone thing.
a) False. In fact any device that requires AA or AAA batteries doesn't ship with a charger, and usually didn't even ship with batteries.
b) You do not need a charger to make the phone work. They give you a cable which allows you to plug in to a myriad of palaces to charge the device.
In other news I just recently bought a slow cooker. It unfortunately did not come with a bundled power station.
A is FALSE as a battery is a consumable, also they have to write "batteries not included" on the packaging and in many countries, the advertising as well. Besides most devices, including phones, have an internal battery that is included.
B, yes you do need a charger to make a phone work. It is a reasonable expectation that I can use the standard BS1363 power socket to provide power to any device that requires an external power supply for operation including charging (feel free to swap BS1363 for the standa
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LOTs of electronics ship with a charging cable NOT a charger. iPhone is hardly alone in this.
Erm... define "LOTs". The last thing I bought that didn't come with a cable was a printer... and that was a USB cable, it still came with a power cable. This was nearly 5 years ago.
Yes, I'd love for this Brazilian judge to go to town on printer manufacturers.
I bought a Nokia G21 recently, £150 phone, it came with a charger and cable. Any phone that doesn't is selling you an incomplete product and should be returned for a full refund.
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a phone is NOT an accessory to a phone charger.
You're right, a charger is considered an accessory to a phone. There's no requirement to sell accessories bundled.
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I'll bet the packaging said pretty clearly somewhere that it had a 1/4" NPT inlet, and probably listed a requirement for how much air it needed too.
If the iPhone box said "USB-C charging port; 2A or greater power source recommended, adapter not included" in a prominent way, there would probably be no case here. If it was super fine print in typical Apple pale grey text on white background, then I would think it's a much stronger case. The fact that most phones come with a way to charge them also works aga
Ask and ye shall receive (Score:4, Informative)
Here's the back of an iPhone box. [imgur.com] Found that image searching on eBay for sellers selling empty boxes (seriously).
As to the legibility, here's the text from that image as interpreted by my iPhone's built-in OCR. I didn't edit this at all:
Includes: iPhone 13 Pro and USB-C to Lightning Cable; power adapter and headphones sold separately.
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> Found that image searching on eBay for sellers selling empty boxes (seriously)
Seems crazy but I bought one once - when my daughter wanted a phone. I bought a used phone and a box. I packed it up like new, and I know she appreciated that. Worth the few bucks is cost.
Re:Ask and ye shall receive (Score:5, Interesting)
I get it. That can make all the difference. I'm going to tell a related but needlessly long story.
My wife is a social worker. Every Christmas, her organization tries to get kids in placement some decent gifts. Younger kids are usually easy to figure out, but for teens, 'we' usually just ask if there is something they'd like. (When say 'we', there is a lot of separation between us and the kids. Whoever is assigned their case handles all of those interactions. We just get the name of the worker and what they want to get for them. The most we ever find out about the kids is their gender and approximate age.)
There are a few local churches that pick up a lot that expense. We'll put up lists with specific items or more general things like "toys suitable for 6-year old girls" and individuals, families, or groups will put their name beside what they plan to buy.
Every now and again, however, someone cheaps out in a senseless way. We make it a point to replace any cheap crayons we see come in with Crayola, for example. No one on the planet wants to color with that Rose Art or Cra-Z-Art crap. It's just a few cents difference, for goodness sake!
One teen girl wanted a FitBit, which was in fashion at the time. No big deal, right? It's a "bigger" item, but you could get a basic model for less than $100. Besides, we've seen some families go absolutely crazy with how much they're willing to spend on kids they'll never meet. It didn't seem unreasonable.
Anyhow, someone did get her a FitBit, but just couldn't bring them selves to part with the extra $20 or whatever it would have been to just get her a new one. The unit was refurbished, which I normally wouldn't care about if it still looked new, but it came packaged in a just a plastic bag with the resellers logo printed across the top. What message does that send? "We care, but not all that much. Here's some junk that someone else didn't want."
Well, we obviously couldn't give that to her, so we went and bought a new one for her ourselves. Granted, I'm sure she would have been just as happy to get the refurbished one, but why add needless disappointment on a holiday that already sucks because she's stuck in placement?
tl;dr -- How a gift is packaged is important.
Re: Ask and ye shall receive (Score:2)
Yes the print is small plus if you bought an iPhone ðY" before USB-C like the cable included, you are stuck.
Apple fans with USB-C to connect it to a USB-A situation is really a terrible answer, square peg round hole ðY!
That picture also answers print readability and it is too darn small and sneaky for that matter.
So Apple is stuck paying plenty for a bad decision.
Re: Ask and ye shall receive (Score:2)
It'd seem reasonable to expect a person spending upwards of $499, or agreeing to a long contract, might read the print on the box. Shop staff could read it if asked.
Re: Ask and ye shall receive (Score:2)
Sure. They could just release it with British plug adapters everywhere. Everyone should be ok with that, because delivering a product that doesn't work out of the box is exactly what everyone expects.
Re: Wait until they discover air tools (Score:2)
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Not an Apple person, so I could be wrong, but I thought they made this change when they migrated to USB-C PD charging. However, they did it when they moved to an at the time rare standard, and with the advertising talking about how they were doing it to be green!
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but I thought they made this change when they migrated to USB-C PD charging.
You'd think so, but not all their products have USB-C ports (yet, if ever). No, this was all "we're soooo green now!" B.S. designed to make you spend more money.
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They did the move at the same time they added support for USB-C PD charging. They changed the cables included in the box from Lighting/USB-A to Lightning/USB-C. The old cables and chargers were still compatible.
If you were upgrading, you got a new cable in case you wanted it, but most people probably kept using the accessories they were already using.
Re: Wait until they discover air tools (Score:2)
Re:Wait until they discover air tools (Score:5, Funny)
You didn't even include a power grid with my device! I was expecting a power grid to be included! LOL.
Re:Wait until they discover air tools (Score:5, Informative)
In brazil there is a law that says that electronic equipment should be sold with everything you need for it to work.
An iphone without a charger violates that law.
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Just depends on whether a case can be made for the ubiquity of USB-A outlets.
Nobody would suggest that electronic equipment that relies on a grid power source would require the inclusion of some kind of generator. You would just use a wall outlet but you would need to purchase a power subscription of some kind still.
In my mind at least, and, apparently Apple's as well, USB-A outlets are common enough that they don't need to provide another one.
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If you were asked to name a stupid US lawsuit, you'd almost certainly cite one that has been significantly misrepresented in the media and was actually a normal personal injury lawsuit.
Over the years (Score:2)
Re:Over the years (Score:5, Funny)
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You're talking some real* money there... ;-)
* The real is the Brazilian unit of currency.
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> The decision could prove costly for the company if it is forced to compensate more Brazilian consumers, or start including accessories in products sold locally
Oh F**K RIGHT OFF, the company is worth something like 40 quadrillion dollars at this point. There's nothing to be gained by cheaping out and cheating consumers out of a necessary item to use the damn phone on an ongoing basis!
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I have collected a suitcase full of USB cables & wall wart chargers from phones and various other electronic gadgets i purchased in the past
So long as Apple are going to honour the warranty regardless of the charger I use then that's fine.
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Yeah, but really, who is going to turn down a free piece of Apple hardware? People will take it even if they don't need it because "I could always use an extra" (even if they don't)
Reasonable expectations (Score:5, Interesting)
Mobile phones have come with chargers for so long, that I could certainly see a reasonable expectation on the part of a customer that one would be included in the box.
Of course its entirely possible that Apple did not make it obvious that one was not included.
What I'm more interested in is not whether device manufacturers should be required to include such an accessory, as its a slippery slope. Rather, I'd like to know what is considered "reasonable notice to the purchaser" that its something you have to purchase separately.
(Since a lot of products have accessories that are required for normal usage, but not included. And I hate how people tend to single out mobile phones as if they should have a unique set of non-RF-related rules and regulations that apply to them.)
Re:Reasonable expectations (Score:4, Interesting)
The judgement that a USB-C charger is necessary for normal functioning is arguably correct in a context where USB-C ports and chargers are somewhere between abnormal and absent; while trivially false in one where buyers of iphones overwhelmingly have such things already.
I have no idea what the gadget stockpile and USB port types of the average Brazilian iPhone buyer are; but I'd hope that, when a nontrivial judgement depends on the answer to that question, there's some standard of evidence better than the judge just spitballing something that he thinks seems plausible.
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the cable they give you in the new iphones is lightning to C
USB-C chargers... (Score:2)
No USB-C ports and chargers here in my colony, but several old USB-A chargers and cables though! We'll get USB-C as the old USB-A die and break.
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The judgement that a USB-C charger is necessary for normal functioning is arguably correct in a context where USB-C ports and chargers are somewhere between abnormal and absent;
Fortunately Apple sell chargers. Now I get it you may be a millennial and do not recall a time where every device not only did not come with a charger but frequently said "Batteries not included" on the box. Yet somehow we managed to use said devices anyway.
Funny enough if you asked me right now what is easier to buy, a AA battery or a USB charger, I would likely point to the latter, they have largely taken the place of batteries in the checkout isle above the chocolate and cigarettes.
Re:Reasonable expectations (Score:4, Interesting)
"Batteries not included" used to be so common in advertising that it makes you think there was some legal need for an explicit statement, at least in the past.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pm... [tvtropes.org]
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that it makes you think there was some legal need for an explicit statement
Words are hard to read, which may be why Apple not only uses words but actually has a picture of "What's in the box".
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In the very miniscule chance this person didn't already have a charger, they are only a few dollars. This judge's behavior is abusive, not only to Apple, but the environment. This case should have been tossed or the person at least fined for bringing a frivolous, time and money wasting idiot. Batteries are not included in a ton of products that require them. Chargers for phones shouldn't be included either at this point. Either you have a dozen or so already or you can get one at literally any corner/c
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This judge's behavior is abusive
No, not the judge, it's instead the law:
found that the manufacturer is violating local consumer law by removing [the adaptor] from boxes
Re: Reasonable expectations (Score:2)
They removed the adapter from the boxes? Yeah I'd see a problem with that too. However, I'm pretty sure they shipped without the adapter.
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Oh? My last phone did not come with a charger (Fairphone 4). And with the upcoming EU regulation, that will likely become more common.
"Reasonable" is any list of parts included. Like, you know, basically any manufacturer does. Sometimes they are still struggling with the idea, for example my last laptop (Lenovo) came with an USB-C PSU, while I pretty much expected it to have none. So "Contents: 1 Phone" is clearly sufficient to say that there is no power adapter. A friendly vendor will add "Charger not incl
Re: Reasonable expectations (Score:2)
Warranty (Score:2)
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You just need a "certified" charger. Doesn't have to be Apple brand. Of course dealing with fakes and knockoffs is another issue.
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Mobile phones have come with chargers for so long, that I could certainly see a reasonable expectation on the part of a customer that one would be included in the box.
Mobile phones are such a tiny subset of consumer battery powered devices that no it is not reasonable. Since back in the 60s we've been buying devices which not only do not include battery chargers, they often didn't even include batteries.
Yeah maybe the person is unable to read. Oh wait Apple's website has a picture showing "What's in the box" and it shows a phone and a USB-C cable.
Stupidity should not be a paycheck.
Old man yells at fruit... (Score:4, Insightful)
It sure is good that law school helps you understand the distinction between a proprietary cable and the fact that the USB standard encompasses more than one port type.
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Judge incompetent, vastly oversteps the boundaries of his understanding. Not new. According to a lawyer-friend, not rare either. Obviously many judges are not suitable to wield the power they have. I expect Apple will be able to kill this nicely and the judge will have nicely deserved egg on his face.
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> The judge in this case is right on the technical matter
The box includes a USB-C to Lightning cable.
It does not include a wall-power to USB-C adapter.
The only piece needed to charge the phone, that is not in the box, is non-proprietary.
> The only one with deserved egg on his face is you.
Don't be a dick.
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The judge in this case is right on the technical matter as well as the law, at least as far as I'm able to tell.
The only one with deserved egg on his face is you.
When you make false technical claims on slashdot, it has nothing to do with your face. It has to do with the other end, and your whole head being stuck up it.
Now go look up "USB-C PD" and then turn in your nerd card on your way out.
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How old is this guy?
Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Include a promo code card or something in every new phone that can be redeemed for an AC adapter and cable. Or maybe you are presented with the option to request one when setting up iOS for the first time and it's tied to the device's serial number. Achieves Apple's stated goal of reducing the amount of e-waste, and for those people who don't have like 50 of these things floating around, they can still get one included in the price of the device.
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and for those people who don't have like 50 of these things floating around
Can they all charge an iphone at full speed? Most chargers really aren't well marked at what wattages and voltages they support; its nice to be a buy a new $1000+ device and just get a charger you know properly supports it, and that isn't a cheap knock-off that will last 5 days.
The idea of an in-box offer isn't bad, but you shouldn't need to rely on the phone being charged in order to claim your free charger.
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Presumably this would be redeemed at an Apple approved supplier (like their own stores). But either way at least in the US almost every single AC to DC supply has voltage and current or power clearly labeled. Heck, you probably hav
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K.I.S.S. is the best approach here. Give a one time coupon code on a printed paper in every box if it doesn't get added on checkout.
Killing trees. Gee, there's a novel approach to a program intended to curb waste.
That second S clarifies the audience, and reducing the Greed that is killing the host planet, isn't a Simple task anymore.
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The amount of paper involved will be a tiny percentage of the amount of paper already used in the packaging. We're talking about a piece of paper approximately the size of a business card. Once the user has made the decision to buy a smartphone, that piece of paper is irrelevant.
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Include a promo code card or something in every new phone that can be redeemed for an AC adapter and cable. Or maybe you are presented with the option to request one when setting up iOS for the first time and it's tied to the device's serial number. Achieves Apple's stated goal of reducing the amount of e-waste, and for those people who don't have like 50 of these things floating around, they can still get one included in the price of the device.
This is an entirely reasonable and well thought out solution... HOW DARE YOU!
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Re: Simple Solution (Score:2)
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Achieves Apple's stated goal of reducing the amount of e-waste, and for those people who don't have like 50 of these things floating around, they can still get one included in the price of the device.
But it doesn't achieve Apple's actual goal of selling you the $2 adapter that would've been included for free, for $30 instead.
Re: Simple Solution (Score:2)
That's why they don't give you a free $2 mousepad with their iMacs too, so you'll buy their $30 Apple one. Because people buy USB power adapters like they buy mousepads and batteries, from the device's manufacturer.
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Or you could just reduce the cost of the device and get a consumer to buy said charger if needed. When you offer something for free, idiots will feel entitled to it regardless if you need it or not. That does not reduce e-waste in the slightest.
Environmentally unconscious. (Score:2)
Perhaps the right answer is to leave packaging unchanged, but make adapters available on request. But the answer isn't to "punish" Apple for not littering the landscape with unused e-waste, or to give some dingus $1,080 because he's somehow wounded for not getting a $10 wall wart.
What a world. Mr. Pinheiro should be force-fed one adapter's worth of plastic and wires.
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Re: Environmentally unconscious. (Score:2)
Where, exactly, did I opine about Apple's motivation? It matters not one whit whether they're being cheap or environmentally conscious. What makes you think I fell for anything?
It's a local/regional judge... (Score:2)
Seriously? (Score:2)
This stinks of a brazen and frivolous money grab.
I can hardly open a drawer in the house without finding a few lightning and micro-USB cables that I stashed away over the years because they're so ubiquitous that they're mostly just in the way at this point. Give it a year and every drawer will have a USB-C cable in there keeping the others company. And I'm not even sure when the last time was that I was more than a dozen feet from an existing USB-A port into which I could plug one of those cables. And, a
Re: Seriously? (Score:3)
The article is very poor: the alleged reason... (Score:4, Informative)
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Except the argument is that it doesn't need a second purchase because USB chargers are ubiquitous. It's like buying a lawnmower and and then suing because you couldn't start it when you got home because you didn't buy fuel.
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Your analogy only makes sense if there's only one maker/seller of the fuel (and it's the same maker/seller of the first purchase: in Portuguese, the name of what is legally forbidden in Brazil is "Venda Casada", something like "tie-in sale" on English....)
Standard Power (Score:2)
Every phone power brick I have all have different power ratings.
$1080 (Score:2)
How the heck is not getting a charger in the box worth $1080 ? Was the judge watching TV and decided to charge per HD pixel? .. and that's being generous ($15 for a charger and $15 for mental anguish of going through "omfg where is the charger?")
At most, having no charger is worth $30
court and legal fees (Score:2)
court and legal fees
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There was only 1 customer. Or do you have some evidence that the legal fees were $1079?
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Re: $1080 (Score:2)
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Courts, depending on country often charge punitive or legislative "fines" rather than actual costs because actual costs don't motivate.
Like in US with digital media copying -- used to be hampered by actual costs against copies -- like $0.20 per violation -- a pittance to bring against a single-download "pirate". So hollywood bought new copyright laws from
their legislatures to charge $250,000 / violation -- nothing remotely resembling actual damages. Even $1000/violation would be nothing to apple if the us
Help me understand the true reason. (Score:2)
If you are trading up an Iphone, don't you have to give them the original adapter as well?
If you are donating the phone don't they also want the adapter?
This leaves you with the need for an adapter to make the new phone work, just like you were a first time buyer. How is this anything more than a money grab?
Those of you with the claimed many extra adapters so you don't need a new one, do the phones get lost or broken that often that you have extras laying
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price gouging disguised as envrionmentaly friendly (Score:2)
If apple used USB as all other manufacturers or sold their charger at a reasonable price I would be ok with it, basically everyone has a bunch of charges laying around and e-waste is a concern, but they do it because they can charge an absurd amount for the chargers and their fanatic costumers will buy happily, it is just another way of increasing their margins disguised as good intentions
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If apple used USB
The phone comes with a USB-C cable which allows it to be charged with standard USB-C devices including chargers.
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Those same consumers, are also Apple shareholders.
Obvious Capitalist Catch-22, is obvious. Those are crocodile tears, and this is the worlds smallest violin.
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If apple used USB as all other manufacturers
Apple does use USB. Their chargers are all USB, and the phone ships with a cable to plug into a USB charger.
I'm sure the rest of your post is equally as stupid.
I have 20 fucking power adaptors! (Score:2)
Re: I have 20 fucking power adaptors! (Score:2)
Ruling is good; "vouchers" might be a mid ground (Score:2)
I think it's good to not include the charging cable if it's a standard one (even though corps won't pass the savings onto consumers), but still think it should be included in some way because there will be people that just don't have the right cable and so this ruling sounds good to me.
The middle ground IMO is to include some sort of charging cable "voucher". There are some logistics to overcome: The voucher needs to be usable anywhere that sells the device in question; big box stores won't have an issue wi
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The problem wasn't a lack of cable -- I got a USB3-mini -to-USB cable with my phone, but didn't get anything to plug it into that would satisfy the iphone's power draw (20W minimum, 30W for fast charge) vs. standard USB's 2.5W output (500mWx5V) (or 7.5 for special charger USB).
While my computer could provide the 20W minimum, I needed to buy a separate charger for the fast charge.
Adapters are a profit issue not a waste issue (Score:2)
This is rather like automakers deleting "cigar lighters" despite their dominant use being high current power ports since the 1970s CB radio era.
Of course the real answer... (Score:2)
Electronic device chargers... (Score:2)
It wouldn't be that big a deal if (Score:2)
If you're going to change your charging standard, provide the new chargers you jerks!
just offer a discount... (Score:2)
Re: Perfect - Apple should provide chargers as req (Score:2)
Phones purchased outright don't by default zone with a SIM and a plan? They're effectively unusable out of the box. Historically a majority purchased phones via contracts with carriers, only recently shifting more towards buying phones outright. How's the lack of a government mandated plan any different to lacking the government mandated charger?
The government arbitrarily mandating what comes with a product seems a strange way to grant buyers choice. So long as the product meets safety standards, does what