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Apple

Apple Puts Foxconn India Plant on Probation After Protests Over Food and Accommodation Conditions (techcrunch.com) 55

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Apple has put the southern India factory of Foxconn on probation following protests from workers over subpar food and accommodation conditions, a concern both the firms acknowledged and pledged to address. From a report: The iPhone maker didn't say how long the probation will last, but an Apple spokesperson in India told TechCrunch that the firm "will ensure our strict standards are met before the facility reopens." Foxconn's factory in the state of Tamil Nadu employs about 17,000 people. Protests erupted in the factory last week after hundreds of women who work at the plant and live in one of the hostels had to be treated for food poisoning and more than 100 were hospitalized, according to earlier local media reports.
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Apple Puts Foxconn India Plant on Probation After Protests Over Food and Accommodation Conditions More

Apple Puts Foxconn India Plant on Probation After Protests Over Food and Accommodation Conditions

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  • So, Apple's record: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @10:29AM (#62125041) Journal

    Taiwan: suicide nets installed outside of dorms because young workers were literally leaping to their deaths in despair of their working conditions.
    India: mass protests because of food poisoning from the rotten provisions in their living spaces.

    Apple makes so much money in part because they'll do anything... anything to keep production ultra cheap in overseas sweatshops while keeping prices ultra-high compared to competing gear, which keeps their profit margins ultra big. And yet Apple's cult continues to extol their superior moral virtues as a company.

    • Apple makes a lot of money because their customer base is ultra loyal.

      There's a lot of other smart phones out there, with much lower running costs. Same goes for all the devices they make, I don't recall anything unique enough about them to warrant the conditions their workers endure.

      • Their cult, I mean loyal customers obviously love slave labour. They'll probably next push Apple against the curve and insist on getting parts sourced from Xinjiang. As long as they can fuel their belief that they are better and have better stuff by paying more than everyone else while contributing to slave labour, they're all in.

        • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Apple's customers' tend to be wealthy liberals that would normally have a moral problem with the working conditions in these factories.

          For some reason Apple gets a pass on this front.
          • I don't love Apple with quite the cult like fervor that you suggest, but what alternatives are there really? Android is a POS these days, Windows is a POS, so if I want a cell phone or a laptop that doesn't suck I have to get something from Apple.

            I don't like it. I want open source alternatives that are GOOD. But they aren't good. I've tried to use Linux for a desktop since 1996. I'm comfortable enough with it, but there's a frustrating lack of quality in the entire array of Linux desktop software. I've

            • I don't love Apple with quite the cult like fervor that you suggest, but what alternatives are there really? Android is a POS these days, Windows is a POS, so if I want a cell phone or a laptop that doesn't suck I have to get something from Apple.

              What sucks? On principle I don't like the fact that Apple makes users fork out a lot of money to write software for their phones. That model can only shift the cost onto the customer again.

              I don't like it. I want open source alternatives that are GOOD. But they aren't good. I've tried to use Linux for a desktop since 1996. I'm comfortable enough with it, but there's a frustrating lack of quality in the entire array of Linux desktop software. I've tried Nexus phones and tablets, later installing LineageOS or other de-branded Android variants. Apple products, despite their flaws, are just better IMO. And I get longer use out of them, since Apple actively supports their older devices, so the price difference evens out.

              What's this got to do with Linux? When I argue that Android is demonstration of Linux in use by consumers, I'm told Android has nothing to do with Linux, it is a totally different system.

              What's random hardware support like with Apple? Can you swap motherboards/graphics cards around, or add sound cards if you want to do au

        • Their cult, I mean loyal customers

          No, you had it right the first time. It's a cult. I recently received a new company paid iPhone 12, an "upgrade" from the 6S, and holy hell. Talk about harassment. There was not a single screen, except in Settings, that I wasn't harassed about this or that. Every time I wanted to do something I had to get rid of another message.

          I had to tell it four times I didn't want to enable Siri. I had to turn off all the noises and notices for everything just to be able to get to

          • Every time I wanted to do something I had to get rid of another message.Every time I wanted to do something I had to get rid of another message.
            You are an idiot. It is asking you "do you agree", and you think it is harassment?

            Anyone who willingly puts up that crap is definitely in a cult.
            And anyone who is not able to describe his problems in clear words: is definitely an idiot.

        • Their cult, I mean loyal customers obviously love slave labour. They'll probably next push Apple against the curve and insist on getting parts sourced from Xinjiang. As long as they can fuel their belief that they are better and have better stuff by paying more than everyone else while contributing to slave labour, they're all in.

          Why don't you stop assigning thoughts and motivations to others.

          Speak for yourself or STFU.

      • What makes you think other manufacturers don't have the same issues? Apple and Foxconn are big enough that these sorts of things get reported on. Not only would smaller manufacturers be able to hide such problems more easily, but many others use the exact same Foxconn facilities.

        • What makes you think other manufacturers don't have the same issues? Apple and Foxconn are big enough that these sorts of things get reported on. Not only would smaller manufacturers be able to hide such problems more easily, but many others use the exact same Foxconn facilities.

          Somewhere there was documentation showing that Apple were totally ok with Foxconn providing the public didn't know about it. Now (some of) the public know, Apple want to be seen to act. What annoys me is that it wasn't until people started to find out about it that Apple wanted to change. As a customer you should at least show that you're sensitive to this issue by voting with your wallet.

      • The workers in the countries mentioned, endure the same hardships, regardless for which brand they work.

        • The workers in the countries mentioned, endure the same hardships, regardless for which brand they work.

          Then choose a manufacturer that doesn't use those countries. Vote with your wallet, the manufacturer's share holders will listen.

          • The workers in the countries mentioned, endure the same hardships, regardless for which brand they work.

            Then choose a manufacturer that doesn't use those countries. Vote with your wallet, the manufacturer's share holders will listen.

            Where are you going to find a viable tech company who "doesn't use those countries"?

            • Where are you going to find a viable tech company who "doesn't use those countries"?

              This is the problem. People need to either admit that slavery is ok for a price, or choose businesses that are willing to charge a bit more so humans are respected.

              • Caveat: The latter kind of business tends to go bankrupt before you even know about them.

                • Tends to, but of late people are buying co2 offset or "green" options. I don't think it is a stretch to assume people will do the same for humane options.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tzanger ( 1575 )

        Quality of the product is why I use them. I bought my first Apple laptop in 2012. I replaced it at the end of 2020. I'm on my laptops 12+h a day, at a variety of sites. I've never had a laptop (not even a ThinkPad, another brand I regard highly) last more than 3 years tops. The Apple ones do. Hell, that 2011 Air is still working, although in a fixed location and as my security camera server.

        The OS has been getting shittier over time, and they keep raising their prices so it's not going to last forever, but

    • Easy to call out Apple (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @10:53AM (#62125091)

      And I agree that they aren't necessarily stepping up as they ought.

      But let's expand that attack in the interest of being inclusive. They might not get the press they deserve, but let's start by throwing Amazon, Sony, Toshiba, Microsoft, Nintendo, Acer, Google, HP, Motorola, Intel, and Dell under the Foxconn-sumer bus.

      The problem isn't Apple-specific. Apple is just an easy target.

      And I haven't ever heard of Apple's "cult" extolling superior moral virtues. Not once.

      • Mind showing some sources for those companies and how their products are causing labor issues at Foxxcon or other companies?

        It ways seems like it's the Apple devices department, not the whole factory. Just the Apple devices departments.

        At it's not limited to Foxxcon, as the article points out that Wistron had the same issues, in it's Apple making department.
        https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/19/apple-puts-contract-partner-wistron-on-probation-after-violence-at-india-plant/

        You would think companies like Sony or
      • because they have the profit margins to easily prevent this. Other companies can hide behind profit margins (which is by no means something we should allow, as it's bullshit, but you can excuse a lot of horrors with the threat of even modest inflation). Apple sells $400 laptops for $1500. They can afford to pay enough for people to eat.
    • That's not just Apple. Why do folks not realize that Amazon, Microsoft, Dell, HP, Google, Nokia, Samsung, and every other electronics maker uses these same factories. You just see "Apple" in the headlines because they draw the clicks. If this headline said "Nokia" no one would care.
      • All of these other companies use these same companies, yes.

        But it's always limited to the Apple supply sections. It's not that "Apple" draws the clicks, it's because it always is the Apple section that has the issues. When you read the articles, it's always the employees making iPhones/iPads, not the average employee making whatever.

        If it really was an industry wide issue, you'd see all sorts of companies listed.

        • All of these other companies use these same companies, yes.

          But it's always limited to the Apple supply sections. It's not that "Apple" draws the clicks, it's because it always is the Apple section that has the issues. When you read the articles, it's always the employees making iPhones/iPads, not the average employee making whatever.

          If it really was an industry wide issue, you'd see all sorts of companies listed.

          Like these? :

          https://www.computerweekly.com... [computerweekly.com]

          https://www.theverge.com/2013/... [theverge.com]

          https://electronicswatch.org/e... [electronicswatch.org]

          All of these other companies use these same companies, yes.

          But it's always limited to the Apple supply sections. It's not that "Apple" draws the clicks, it's because it always is the Apple section that has the issues. When you read the articles, it's always the employees making iPhones/iPads, not the average employee making whatever.

          If it really was an industry wide issue, you'd see all sorts of companies listed.

          Like this random sample of articles? :

          https://www.computerweekly.com... [computerweekly.com]

          https://www.theverge.com/2013/... [theverge.com]

          https://electronicswatch.org/e... [electronicswatch.org]

          https://chinalaborwatch.org/wo... [chinalaborwatch.org]

          https://chinalaborwatch.org/am... [chinalaborwatch.org]

          https://chinalaborwatch.org/ab... [chinalaborwatch.org]

          and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface!

          • Yes, that's nice to see (not pleasant, but something to back it up).

            I couldn't find those, but I'm most likely not searching the right keywords.

            Only other issue I have then is the one I mentioned in another post here.

            "Apple had it's first issues in 2011 with Foxconn that they will not work with companies that don't follow "Apples values" (they claimed at the time they couldn't just up and leave Foxconn at that moment, but will be looking to move to another company who follows their values ASAP). It's been o

    • What you have conveniently left out is that suicide rates at that Foxconn plant with the suicide nets were lower than in the general populace, both in China AND the USA.

      ABC News[47] and The Economist[48] both conducted comparisons, and found that although the number of workplace suicides at Foxconn was large in absolute terms, the suicide rate was actually lower than the overall suicide rate of China[49] or the United States.[50] According to a 2011 Centre for Disease Control and Prevention report, China had a high suicide rate with approximately 22.23 deaths per 100,000 persons.[51] In 2010, the company's employee count was a reported 930,000 people.[52]

      Let us also be crystal clear that while Apple is a major client of Foxconn, they make things for other companies too.

    • Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, but their factories in Taiwan are quite favorable to the workers. Nearly 10 years ago it was their Chinese run factories that installed suicide nets. See https://www.pcworld.com/articl... [pcworld.com]
  • Until they're on double super secret probation.
  • I think maybe they should start charging (even) more for them.

    -I actually did type that with a straight face. Well, until I hit preview.

  • The beauty of subcontractors (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Virtucon ( 127420 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @11:23AM (#62125163)

    One of the benefits of hiring subcontractors like Foxconn is plausible deniability. "We didn't realize that our subcontractor was poisoning their employees!"

    • One of the benefits of hiring subcontractors like Foxconn is plausible deniability. "We didn't realize that our subcontractor was poisoning their employees!"

      ...and, of course, though Apple "regrets" (or even "deeply regrets") the injuries done to their contractor's employees, said employees will not receive any additional payments to compensate them for these injuries (nor any guarantees that these or other injuries will not reoccur)

    • OK, but you are replying to a story in which the opposite is happening.

      • by putting them on probation? Given Foxconn's track record I'd say the need for a probationary period has long since passed. Apple's moves are token gestures and even if they shut down Foxconn India, they still have contracts with them in other places around the world. It's the perfect exploitation model.

        • To management at that factory it's not a token gesture. Suspension with the possibility of reinstatement is the strongest possible motive to fix things, whereas simply cutting off the whole factory (i.e. firing management and workers alike) would remove both the means and incentive to improve.

          • You'd think they would understand that already, this isn't their first rodeo and not the first time Foxconn has been called out for problems at their facilities in other countries, it seems they're just trying to hide the cheese as it were, moving from one nation that doesn't look to hard at worker abuse, for another.

  • ...probably went something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] (Silicon Valley episode where Gavin Belson meets the directory of a factory in China).
  • Translation at Foxconn: Indian factory workers complain more than Chinese factory workers over same conditions. Infrastructure like roads and electricity are crappy. Government suing for retroactive taxes is still a thing. Why are we manufacturing here?

    I don't know what the right balance is between workers' rights and workers complaining. However, there is a reason why everyone loves to set up factories in China. Despite the organ harvesting. Despite the genocide. Despite the jailing of press and disside

    • Getting manufacturing right in a globalized world means getting manufacturing cheapest.

    • Despite the threats it poses to democracies worldwide. Why would China be a threat to democracies world wide?

      But if we (democracies) cannot get manufacturing right I think you are mixing up USA with the rest of the world ...

      • Iâ(TM)m looking at Taiwan, a democracy, thatâ(TM)s under active threat from CCP. Do you not care about what happens to them?

        • Lol, a "threat to democracies" aka a threat to democracy in other countries, is not the same as a threat to another country.

          And frankly: no, I do not care about Taiwan.

          Taiwan and Mainland China are occupied by the same kind of assholes. Both claim: "there is only one China", and the other part got stolen from them.

          Let them sort it out: not our business.

  • If Apple fails address problems at the Foxconn India plant, it seems likely working conditions there will continue to deteriorate until they're similar to those in a typical Amazon warehouse in the United States.

  • defacto Apple employees (if you work all day assembling Apple devices you work for Apple, I don't care what legal shenanigans they use to call them contractors or 3rd parties or whatnot) are asking for *food*, not wages.

    For those following along at home, this means they're not so much paid, as given just enough food to live. We had a name for that here in America back in the late 1700s / early 1800s....
  • Let's put Tim Cook on probation with no food and water for two months. Maybe he'll learn to be a breatharian.

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