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Businesses The Almighty Buck Apple

Apple Is About To Become the World's First $3 Trillion Company (cnn.com) 49

An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNN: Apple is on the verge of yet another major milestone. The iPhone maker is close to topping a market value of more than $3 trillion -- the first publicly traded company ever to be worth that much. Shares of Apple were up about 1% in premarket trading Monday to around $181.75. The stock needs to hit $182.85 for Apple to surpass the $3 trillion mark. Apple's market value first crossed the $1 trillion threshold in August 2018 and passed $2 trillion in August 2020. [...] But before long, Apple may have some company in the $3 trillion club. Microsoft is now worth about $2.6 trillion and Google owner Alphabet's market value is right around $2 trillion. Still giant but further behind are Amazon, which has a market cap of $1.7 trillion, and Elon Musk's Tesla, worth $1 trillion.
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Apple Is About To Become the World's First $3 Trillion Company

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  • So... (Score:4, Informative)

    by RegistrationIsDumb83 ( 6517138 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @08:31PM (#62077545)
    Apple's stock is as overpriced as their products?
    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      Apple's stock is as overpriced as their products?

      Well, the whole stock exchange is over-priced. Apple is about average at a price/earnings ratio of 27.
      It is the third-most profitable public company in the world, and if you think they will stay that way, it is an OK price.

      The problem is that when you are that successful, there is a lot more room to go down than up. Regression to the mean.
      It is no longer a little startup with unlimited potential for growth.

  • Sad times. (Score:2, Insightful)

    The triumph of greed and exploitation.
    • by xwin ( 848234 )
      How is Apple signifies the triumph of greed and exploitation? I am not an Apple fan or own any of their devices, but Apple got where they are by offering something that people want and willing to pay a premium for. Somehow they found an exact line between the luxury and the mass market. Apple devices are status symbol but at the same time they are accessible enough and do not cost completely unreasonable amounts of money. They also created a privacy and security charade that most people including people on
      • Apple offers overpriced (greed) articles made cheaply (greed) by de-facto slave labor (exploitation) for people who are richer than it is practical or decent (greed + vanity).
  • ... congrats Apple, who has spent several billions on a now-empty campus, instead of investing in people.

  • by NimbleSquirrel ( 587564 ) on Monday December 13, 2021 @10:17PM (#62077761)

    Apple's Market Capitilization is approaching $3 Trillion, but that only represents what investors are willing to pay for Apple shares. It is just what the market *thinks* Apple is worth. Does this meain that Apple have $3 Trillion in the bank? No, not at all. To see the book value of the company you need to look at Total Equity (which is the Assets minus Liabilities). As of last quarter, Apple's total equity is $63.09 Billion.... That is a far cry from even $1 Trillion.

    By comparision, Alphabet's Total Equity was $244.6 Billion while their Market Cap was $1,941.5 Billion, and Microsoft's Total Equity was $151.98 Billion while their Market Cap is $2548.2 Billion.

    IMO, the huge disparity between Apple's Market Cap and Total Equity, especially when compared with other similarly placed companies, means Apple's stock is overvalued.

    • And one of these days that value is going to go *poof*

    • by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:45AM (#62078069)
      This is a complete misnomer, both market cap and yours. What the market "should" (heavy quotes) be "betting" on is the total returns, to them, the market. That is dividends they get, money for owning the stock, or money from being bought (not that anyone could afford Apple). This extends towards the future, if dividends go up in the future then it might be worth it to pay more now and be patient. OR, or, the expected "stock buyback" by the company itself, which then purchases the stock from you if you want. Again, if you expect the price to go up, you can hold on and sell it back at a future buyback price.

      Right now a share goes for $175 (current quote). Now dividends are usually around $.2 or $.8 a quarter, sometimes N/A, depending on what Apple is feeling like doing atm. Not very valuable, it'd take decades and decades to start earning more money than you'd pay for a share. However, Apple has been into buying back shares lately. And again, if you expect it to to up, you can buy now, wait a few years, and potentially get back more money at a later share buyback.

      This is the idea behind the fundamental "underlying value" of a stock, as far as that idea gets you anyway. Now, Market Cap is different. Market cap represents the lowest amount of money someone with apple stock will sell you that stock for, that is then multiplied by the total amount of shares the company has. This however undercounts the idea of what people, overall, think the stock is worth, as it only counts the people that value the stock the least. So while "Apple" might be "worth" more as an ideal stock, the actual stock is currently worth $175, because that's what people can get it for,

      Now, do you see "Total Equity" anywhere? No, liabilities have shit all to directly do with any of this, the stock is worth what the purchaser will pay for it. That is the first, and only, golden rule of economics, that there is no true fundamental value and all is worth exactly what the purchaser will pay for it. And right now that's $175 for a share of stock regardless of all else. What the "company" itself is worth, even in "market value" is ephemeral at best. Liabilities and all else included. IE Market Cap is bullshit.
      • by Macfox ( 50100 )

        Might be true in this frenzied economy. Not so much when it goes to shit.

      • Let's use our terms rather than financial lingo. The stock price is a differential -- that is, dollar-per-share ratio you would get for selling an infinitely small amount of stock. You can never actually sell for that much -- selling even a single share depresses the stock price, buying even one increases it. In a zero-sum game that'd be fair but you have High Frequency Fraud crooks siphoning value off honest traders.

        If you possess X shares, the actual amount of money you can get for selling them at once

        • I don't know what you're on about. I always buy and sell with a limit set, so there's no question about paying more or selling for less than what I expect. Yes, I sometimes get to be at lower and sell at higher prices than I set, but that's not the rule. Such prices move according to what transactions are done at market prices. Say I offer to sell some shares of stock X at USD 10, and no one is offering lower than that, and someone buys at market price, they'll be buying mine for USD 10. The market price is
      • What the market "should" (heavy quotes) be "betting" on is the total returns, to them, the market.

        Except the market has a multitude of different reasons for investing in Apple. People like yourself may be looking at total returns. Other people may simply like Apple as a company and want a share of it.

        The problem is with the wider public and media touting Apple's Market Cap as the measure of the company. Novice investors may see it as a 'safe bet', while other may invest simply through FOMO. This only serves to further inflate the Market Cap.

        Worse, there are those who see the Market Cap in the media and

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Oh my god. You are so, incredibly wrong. Total equity and market cap are not at all related. I could have total equity of zero and be worth a trillion. Market cap is related to projected profit, not their bank balance. Please educate yourself before you go around repeating this.

      • by nagora ( 177841 )

        Oh my god. You are so, incredibly wrong. Total equity and market cap are not at all related.

        https://www.investopedia.com/t... [investopedia.com]:

        Market capitalization refers to the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares of stock. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying the total number of a company's outstanding shares by the current market price of one share.

        Seems very closely related to equity to me.

        There used to be a rule of thumb that market cap "should be" 20 x annual profit, I think, and if the cap is over that you should sell, and under it you should buy. But there are plenty of exceptions (Uber, obviously is one since it's never made a profit) and it was only really a rough guide for investing anyway.

      • Market cap is related to projected profit, not their bank balance.

        OMG, you are so incredibly wrong. Please educate yourself before you go around repeating this. Market Cap is the total dollar market value of oustanding shares in a company (the number of outstanding shares * current market share price). It is simply the value of the company to the market.

        While some shareholders base their investments on projected profit, many others do not (especially long term investors). While projected profit announcements can cause share price fluctuations, Market Cap itself is not dir

    • I own shares in some companies, but I don't have a strong investment background, so please excuse what may seem like an ignorant question.

      Why do you think Total Equity is a good indicator of a company's worth? I ask because companies might own lots of assets in the form of factories and trucks and so on. That stuff depreciates over time, and manufacturing businesses tend to produce low profit margins (e.g., many car companies). In contrast, a "knowledge" company might create its knowledge once and then pay

      • Total Equity is one (but not the only) means of looking into the financial health of a company. It represents the value returned to shareholders if a company were to suddenly cease operations and be liquidated.

        A very low or negative Total Equity can be seen as a sign of poor financial health or financial distress. It can be seen as a company burning through its retained earnings or its capital.

        A very high Total Equity, depending on the type of company, may indicate that the company is not being managed effe

        • Although Apple's Market Cap has been increasing, I thought it was approximately in line with increases of its earnings, that is, the price-earnings ratio remained about 30:1, so I wasn't concerned about that. When you say the Total Equity has been falling, do you mean in relative terms (that is, as a percentage of Market Cap) or absolute terms? If the former, I assume this could be explained by Apple growing its services businesses, so again I wouldn't be concerned about that. But if you mean the latter (th
  • $3 trillion company? Inflation will do that...

  • Trippling in size in 2 years? That sounds like capitalism has a cancerous tumour. How long before Apple et al. kill their host?
  • Apple's worth a hundred billion.

    "Don't be stupid!"

    Apple's worth a trillion.

    "Don't be stupid!"

    Apple's worth two trillion!

    "Don't be stupid!"

    I think I know what my self-advisor is thinking now! At some point, he will be right.
      Presumably just after I die of a heart attack just before retirement at 67.

One man's constant is another man's variable. -- A.J. Perlis

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