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Tim Cook: Users Who Want To Sideload Apps Can Use Android (macrumors.com) 271

Amid a heightened amount of scrutiny and tension surrounding the App Store and how users download and install apps on the iPhone, Apple CEO Tim Cook said today that customers who wish to sideload apps should consider purchasing an Android device as the experience offered by the iPhone maximizes their security and privacy. From a report: Speaking at The New York Times "DealBook" summit, Cook said that customers currently already have a choice between wanting a secure and protected platform or an ecosystem that allows for sideloading. "I think that people have that choice today, Andrew. If you want to sideload, you can buy an Android phone." Cook drew the comparison of sideloading to a carmaker selling a car without airbags or seatbelt, saying it would be "too risky." "I think that people have that choice today, Andrew, if you want to sideload, you can buy an Android phone. That choice exists when you go into the carrier shop. If that is important to you, then you should buy an Android phone. From our point of view, it would be like if I were an automobile manufacturer telling [a customer] not to put airbags and seat belts in the car. He would never think about doing this in today's time. It's just too risky to do that. And so it would not be an iPhone if it didn't maximize security and privacy," he said.
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Tim Cook: Users Who Want To Sideload Apps Can Use Android

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  • Damn Straight (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:33PM (#61972337)

    You want a side loading ecosystem where it's easy for the average user to compromise system security, go get Android and knock yourself out.

    Leave those of us that want a system we know our elderly relatives cannot easily self-compromise just one system, the iPhone, that we feel can be reasonably secure without having to review what is installed every week.

    Why do people feel the need to make every single phone OS on the planet work exactly the same. Let there be differences, so people have real choice.

    • Re:Damn Straight (Score:4, Insightful)

      by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:36PM (#61972355)

      so people have real choice.

      Choice...like in having a choice of installing your own applications? Yep, Android does have that.

      • so people have real choice.

        Choice...like in having a choice of installing your own applications? Yep, Android does have that.

        Which means you buy an Android! If that is what gives you great pleasure, buy a freaking android, and you can install anything you want to install.

        Because the People that hate Apple don't really care about Apple's process, they simply hate Apple with a white hot spittle flaked passion, and want Apple to die and go away.

        I remember when guys would get into fistfights because one loved Chevys, and the other Fords. Oh they were just a passionate. The best car was based on who won the fistfight.

        And here

    • Re:Damn Straight (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jobslave ( 6255040 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:45PM (#61972391)

      Except Cook's example falls flat. Car manufacturers install air bag because they are required by law, not because it's good optics. Apple doesn't want to give the ability to sideload apps, not because of safety or any other bullshit excuse. It's 100% vendor lock in, nothing else, not even remotely anything else.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        It's 100% vendor lock in, nothing else, not even remotely anything else.

        Obviously. But like any good cult leader, Cook know how to lie convincingly to his disciples.

      • Apple doesn't want to give the ability to sideload apps, not because of safety or any other bullshit excuse. It's 100% vendor lock in, nothing else, not even remotely anything else.

        Not to mention all but the newest iPhones can be jailbroken to run any apps the user desires. If iPhones were so incredibly secure, jailbreaking would not even be possible.

        • "Not to mention all but the newest iPhones can be jailbroken to run any apps the user desires. If iPhones were so incredibly secure, jailbreaking would not even be possible."

          Nobody cares about jailbraking as long as they can't read any original data.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          Not to mention all but the newest iPhones can be jailbroken to run any apps the user desires.

          Sure, but that also voids the warranty. So if the unapproved app bricks your phone, that's your problem. Apple doesn't have to spend money to fix your screwup.

      • Re:Damn Straight (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Junta ( 36770 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:53PM (#61972625)

        It'd be more like making it impossible for anyone but the dealer to access the oil to do an oil change, just in case the user or a third-party garage might possible mess up the oil change. Coincidentally, the dealers must pay 20% per oil change to the manufacturer for the privilege of changing the oil.

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Except Cook's example falls flat. Car manufacturers install air bag because they are required by law, not because it's good optics. Apple doesn't want to give the ability to sideload apps, not because of safety or any other bullshit excuse. It's 100% vendor lock in, nothing else, not even remotely anything else.

        And why should it be law you can sideload apps?

        Apple has stated from the beginning that they will need to review every app, and the position hasn't changed. Google has made it clear they aren't doing

        • I'm on Android and I don't have any need to side-load, but it sure is nice to know the option is available. That alone is reason enough to avoid Apple, as if I didn't already have 30 years of reasons not to.

    • I sincerely don't want yo side load apps on the device I need to absolutely trust . ( as my you as you can actually trust anything ).
      And I don't want there to be some chinks in this Armor. If app makers get uppity and refuse to go via the App Store then I get into a quadratic when there's some app I want but it's not available on the App Store only via side load . I don't want that to be an option. Everybody needs to come in through the same airlock and no special treatment because an app maker wants to

      • by Junta ( 36770 )

        It absolutely would be 'well don't use an app like that'. The way you talk you'd think Google Play Store would barely have any apps because sideloading exists. On the contrary, despite the option developers tend to avoid that requirement. Because there is a rather reasonably scary warning about sideloading. The exception are apps that can't get into either store (e.g. the youtube app that skips ads) and personally developed applications. If something does go awry on your Android device and you never went

      • It's not a question of "well don't use an app like that" if it becomes some app that's too significant to ignore.

        Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Everybody claims that Apple should be able to do what they want, because Android exists. However, iOS has a marketshare that is *far* too significant for a developer to ignore.

        As for any important app deciding to not go through the App store, the only time it's going to happen is when Apple's policies are too draconian. Not in the 'we don't allow malware', or 'We don't allow you to get private info', but 'We don't allow porn', 'We're going to charge you an unreasonable cut'

        • However, iOS has a marketshare that is *far* too significant for a developer to ignore.

          26%. [statista.com]

          Which isn't all that different than the 15% MacOS [statcounter.com] share. So clearly, every Windows application has been ported to MacOS, right?

          'We're going to charge you an unreasonable cut

          On the XBox store, the Sony Playstation store, Google Play store (until last month), and all the other significant stores, it's 30%.

          "unreasonable" is a very odd way of spelling "typical".

          This is proven out by the Play Store, which has pretty much exactly the same policies as Apple's, and everything the vast majority would want is on there.

          Great, so what's the problem? Just like Tim Cook says, people can buy an Android if they don't like what Apple is doing.

    • More people use Android than iPhone.

    • Leave you to a system for people too stupid to not load dodgy apps. Apple is screwed in Europe anyway. It's anticompetitive business actions are going to be deconstructed bit by bit. But seriously, glad for you that you have more dollars than sense. I guess that balances across America who love corporations over people, all the way to China, where Apple will suck a dick to get in, and screw the idea of not working with autocrats who will supply them with slave labour. Keep up with the Apple righteousness.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      You want a side loading ecosystem where it's easy for the average user to compromise system security, go get Android and knock yourself out.

      This does not address why half of the smartphone users in the US should be denied the opportunity to install software from sources other than Apple.

      Leave those of us that want a system we know our elderly relatives cannot easily self-compromise just one system, the iPhone, that we feel can be reasonably secure without having to review what is installed every week.

      So your justification for denying half of the smartphone users in the US the ability to install software from sources other than Apple is you don't know how to administratively disable installing software from external sources?

      Why do people feel the need to make every single phone OS on the planet work exactly the same. Let there be differences, so people have real choice.

      What does the ability to install software have to do with unique features of an operating system?

      There is substantial evidence that both

      • by Junta ( 36770 )

        you don't know how to administratively disable installing software from external sources?

        It's even worse than that. It would be being afraid of somehow accidentally allowing sideloading and then subsequently allowing the installation of each apk by mistake. Sideloading is allowed sure but it makes every effort to scare you along the way to make sure you know what you are getting into.

    • Re:Damn Straight (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:11PM (#61972477)

      Do your elderly relatives go into security settings and explicitly enable installation of apks from uknown sources? No? Then it's not an issue for their security and they'll be more likely to get owned by something "curated" by the app stores.

    • Re:Damn Straight (Score:5, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:16PM (#61972493) Homepage Journal

      How often has iCloud been hacked vs Google cloud?

      Apple's app store often has malware that passes their checks. It's no better than Google's as far as I can see.

      Apple's security isn't particularly good. If this is about security at all then it's a crutch, not an advantage.

    • Re:Damn Straight (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:35PM (#61972567)

      It isn't easy to accidentally side load apps on an Android. You have to purposely go to an alternate source of apps (e.g. alternate app store or a website offering apk) and then agree to the warning about side loading such apps. If your elderly relatives are able to do this on a weekly basis maybe they are smarter than you give them credit for.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's actually harder than that. You have to enable side loading, and then you need to give whatever app you used to download the APK permission to install other apps. If you use Chrome to download the APK you also have to confirm you want to do it too.

      • They are plenty qualified to totally fuck themselves over. Which is why it's nice when the OS won't let them.

    • Leave those of us that want a system we know our elderly relatives cannot easily self-compromise just one system, the iPhone

      I'm not sure if you're ignorant of security, ignorant of the iPhone, or both. But I do know one thing: Ignorance is clearly bliss, and you seem to be quite blissfully happy with your iToy.

      Also why would your elderly relatives suddenly self-compromise bypassing multiple warnings and jumping through several hoops because they have something? Are their train tracks where they live? Do they feel an obsessive compulsion to lay down on them just because they are there? What is wrong with them that would suddenly

      • Maybe they need more help than just Tim Cook's curation.

        That problem has already been solved and is used extensively by parents to limit their childrens' iPhones, it's called Parental Controls. It seems these people just want Apple to be their parents (or the guardians of their elderly parents).

    • You want a side loading ecosystem where it's easy for the average user to compromise system security, go get Android and knock yourself out.

      Leave those of us that want a system we know our elderly relatives cannot easily self-compromise just one system, the iPhone, that we feel can be reasonably secure without having to review what is installed every week.

      How about a compromise? Make sideloading an inconvenient, multi-step process with plenty of dire warnings. This would prevent technopeasants from accidentally loading malware, and would scare off all but the most stalwart and/or geekiest users. The majority of iPhone users would experience no difference whatsoever. The few who know what they're doing and/or want to take a chance can still do so.

      Why do people feel the need to make every single phone OS on the planet work exactly the same. Let there be diffe

    • congrats on your highly technical elderly relatives. It's not Windows. You can't just double click and exe and have at it. You have to drill into the system menus, enable "Install Unknown Apps" and click past a warning.

      If you're relatives are being tricked into all that then they've also given up their SSN, Mom's Maiden and Bank details.
    • by Dracos ( 107777 )

      This is not strictly about security, it's about maintaining the integrity of the walled garden.

    • by dimko ( 1166489 )
      Iphone is for the old people, confirmed.
    • It's funny seeing how their brain-washing works on you.

      Sideloading is just part of the broader issue of being allowed to control your own devices.

      Make no mistake - you have just been manipulated to go against right to repair.
    • Leave those of us that want a system we know our elderly relatives cannot easily self-compromise just one system

      One of the biggest scams targeting vulnerable people is phone scams, an option to limit calls to only known numbers and/or a secure and traceable VOIP system(s) like FaceTime and iMessage but for voice (is there already a FaceTime voice?) which would be a huge help to mitigate these scams. That setting, along with App Store settings (for installation from third party stores) could be alongside all the existing restrictions in the Parental Controls.

      You can dumb the whole platform down to cater to the dumbest

    • Most android "malware" comes from the Play store, not from sideloading. So the "safety" from iOS is not from denying "end users" from sideloading. Being able to side load means apple missing out on the 30% cut. Or you can believe the what tim apple is saying.

    • If Apple wants to have a default setup where it's a pain in the ass to side load apps so that users don't accidentally do it, I'm fine with that. But not allowing it at all, or making it ephemeral and forcing the user to jump through hoops every other day in order to re-sign the sideloaded app, is asinine. There's no valid reason they could possibly have for that.

      I acknowledge that your use case is important and you should have access to devices that let you do that. I don't think it needs to come at the
  • by ChunderDownunder ( 709234 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:34PM (#61972339)

    Thanks, Tim.

  • In other words... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Coren22 ( 1625475 )

    In other words, he just said "you're holding it wrong" to all those who want to load apps outside their lockdown.

    • More like "you're buying it wrong".
    • In other words, he just said "you're holding it wrong" to all those who want to load apps outside their lockdown.

      Nah he's said "you're holding the wrong one" and followed it up by supporting a feature of his competitors which the iPhone doesn't offer.

  • So in other words, if you have an iPhone and get into a car accident you'll be ok?

  • by ChangeOnInstall ( 589099 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:40PM (#61972373)
    Then why do you allow people to sideload apps on Macs? What's the difference between a Mac and an iPad (which you literally advertise as a general purpose computer equivalent)?
    • Then why do you allow people to sideload apps on Macs?

      Because PCs evolved before App Stores, so it's expected.

      What's the difference between a Mac and an iPad

      The operating system, the interface, the form factor, the interface, and the fact that it evolved after the creation of App Stores.

    • Then why do you allow people to sideload apps on Macs? What's the difference between a Mac and an iPad (which you literally advertise as a general purpose computer equivalent)?

      Don't give them any ideas.

    • by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [hog.naj.tnecniv]> on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:24PM (#61972527) Homepage

      There are several reasons, but not least of which is that phones are an order of magnitude more popular and available to people than desktop computers have ever been. Almost everyone has a smartphone now. If a person only has one computer, it's likely to be a smartphone.

      A smartphone is a limited device. In Apple's conception, it's supposed to be the most reliable, least dangerous computer you have. You buy it and it works reliably to do some number of small tasks.

      Desktop computers, as I'm sure you already know, are much more powerful and are used for many more things than phones are, or even can be. iPads are a step up from phones, but Apple still only releases XCode for Macs. You know what you're getting into if you buy a Mac.

      It may be that in Apple's idealized future, the Mac is locked down as well, but I think they know that the ability to create software and do research and any number of other similar things are only possible in a mostly unfettered environment.

      tl;dr phones and macs aren't the same and you know it; well, so does Apple.

    • Then why do you allow people to sideload apps on Macs?

      Because Apple's customers expect to be able to use a Mac as a general-purpose computing device.

      Apple's customers expect an iPhone to be a reasonably secure communication device.

      They aren't used for the same purposes.

      In both cases, Apple is giving its customers what they want.

    • Then why do you allow people to sideload apps on Macs?

      Legacy which takes a while to overcome. Just look at the history of Macs and specifically the Mac Gatekeeper.

      Many Years ago: Install whatever the fuck you want.
      Years ago: Install whatever you want, but you get a message if it's not co-signed.
      Recently: Install whatever you want, but Gatekeeper will prevent you from doing so automatically, you first need enable Allow Apps from "Anywhere" in your security settings.
      Very recently: Install apps from App store and identified developers only. If you want to do anyt

      • âoe Very recently: Install apps from App store and identified developers only. If you want to do anything else you need to manually add an exception. No longer can you set Macs to by default allow executing unsigned code.â

        Not strictly true, right click on the newly installed app and you can still open it even when it isnâ(TM)t signed and it gets added as an exception.

  • Malware (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rtkluttz ( 244325 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:41PM (#61972377) Homepage

    Plain and simple. If an entity other than the owner of the device has more control than the owner, then it is malware. Both Apple and Android phones have preloaded malware from the day you get it. You shouldn't be forced to fight your operating system to adblock or run firewalls or override the security of an app or do local backups if you don't want your shit in the cloud.

    • If an entity other than the owner of the device has more control than the owner, then it is malware.

      Which makes every computer running a piece of software with an update mechanism malware, including Linux. Sorry but your definition of malware is now so broad as to be completely pointless.

  • Let's finish this sentence now: "Developers who don't want to follow Apple's quixotic rules to access half their customers in the US should ...?" I should tell all of my customers to move to Android?
  • by Night Goat ( 18437 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:52PM (#61972413) Homepage Journal

    I'm a guy who likes running their own software, writing their own software, making changes, etc. on my computer. I moved off of Windows back in the XP days because it became clear that I was going to lose more and more control over my OS. (Those forced Windows Updates drove me over the edge...)

    However, I like having a phone that stays phone-like and is locked down. I'd like to be able to play FLAC files on my iPhone, but I can live without that. I can live with just using Safari as a browser. I consider my phone to be tertiary to my computing lifestyle, so if I want to do specific things on my phone, I just don't do it. It's worth it to me to not worry about that.

    I hope this makes sense- honestly, until I read the summary, I hadn't thought much about how I care A LOT about what I can do with my computer and very little about what I can do on my phone!

    • However, I like having a phone that stays phone-like and is locked down.

      Allowing side-loading doesn't prevent the phone from being locked-down for people who want it locked down.

      • Providing a mechanism to unlock sideloading means those of us who have been conscripted into family tech support will have a lot more shit to clean up.

        I'd understand the ranting if there was no alternative, but as he points out, there is an alternative for people who want that feature.

        • Providing a mechanism to unlock sideloading means those of us who have been conscripted into family tech support will have a lot more shit to clean up.

          Has this been a problem for you with Android? If not, then you're full of shit.

    • by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:26PM (#61972533)

      I hope this makes sense- honestly, until I read the summary, I hadn't thought much about how I care A LOT about what I can do with my computer and very little about what I can do on my phone!

      I get what you're saying but no it doesn't make sense because you can't sideload apps by default on Android either, you need to explicitly enable that in the settings. If you want your phone to remain a walled garden, you literally don't need to do anything.

      • Those of us who have been conscripted into family tech support know just how often our "users" fuck everything up. You give them a dangerous switch, and they're going to flip it.

        Second, the availability of side-loading means someone will publish Super Candy Crush or whatever, it will only be available via side-loading, and come complete with embedded malware. There will also be detailed instructions on how to enable side-loading and install their "game", which have been dumbed-down enough so that it gets

  • Terrible analogy (Score:5, Informative)

    by Experiment 626 ( 698257 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:54PM (#61972417)
    If he wants to go with a car analogy, an iPhone is like a car where opening the hood requires a key that's only available to the dealership mechanics. It keeps clueless users from messing around in there, and protects the manufacturer's income stream. Android, on the other hand, is like a car that lets end users and third party mechanics open the hood and install potentially non-OEM parts in there.
  • This sort of arrogance reminds me of the reason Jobs gave as to why they had to approve every app, and what type they'd allow/reject: "Freedom from porn!", he said at the time.

    To me it sounded more like "Freedom from choice!"

    • Then buy an Android.

      I find it fascinating that people who obviously don't own iOS devices are so concerned about what other people can do with their iOS devices. If sideloading was important to them, they would have bought an Android too.

      • by Sebby ( 238625 )

        Then buy an Android.

        I find it fascinating that people who obviously don't own iOS devices are so concerned about what other people can do with their iOS devices. If sideloading was important to them, they would have bought an Android too.

        I do have Android.

        And what I find facinating is how people are buying up Apple's excuses labelled as "choice" unquestioned, and if anyone does question them, its fanboys go into full-on attack mode (no, not necessarily you, but some of the comments on here... oh boy!).

        • I do have Android.

          And just like every other Android owner on slashdot, I eagerly await your edict on the only proper way to use a phone/tablet. While also being utterly dismissive of other people's choices, and not giving a shit about their reasons, instead assuming that they can't possibly have thought this through.

          And what I find facinating is how people are buying up Apple's excuses labelled as "choice" unquestioned

          There it is. Now we just need the massive victimhood complex...

          its fanboys go into full-on attack mode

          And now the post is complete.

          • by Sebby ( 238625 )
            LOL proud of yourself, are ya?
          • Yeah, I do have both Android and iOS devices (mainly macOS/iOS developer day job), so your attempts to paint me as ignorant about either falls pretty flat on its face.

            (P.S.S. And no, I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else, just as I don't expect any from you.)

    • When given the choice, a majority of people make poor choices. For an example, consider the last 25+ years of Windows. Where users would install any old garbage they download, from new cursors to desktop mates. And then we wonder how the computer is stuffed with viruses, malware, search bar "plugins", and other trash. We live in a world where people are washing and reselling latex gloves. There almost has to be a big brother out there to keep the predators from ripping us all off. (OTOH, you have to be nuts

      • "When given the choice, a majority of people make poor choices."

        That's absolutely the case. But is this our problem? The issue I have with the iphone and apple products in general is that they tend to frustrate the knowledgeable power user. That it allows people to make mistakes, well, shrug.

        Just recently I turned in my Macbook at work for a Dell. Not because I love windows. I hate Windows. I absolutely hate Windows. To be clear, I absolutely, positively, hate Windows.

        But I was just tired of trying

  • ...as my customer. Full stop.

    That is the message Tim Cook is proclaiming, It is troubling to hear that from a CEO.

    • It seems to be the thing to say these days. Like writers saying "if you don't like my politics, don't buy my stuff." Ok, then. Problem solved.

      I'm reminded of when daughter was in high school, and she and all her friends had phones, and virtually none of them were iphones. The reason, she tells me, being that all iphones look and act exactly the same. Android phones were easier to make distinct.

  • We'll do that.

  • by Mononymous ( 6156676 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @07:34PM (#61972963)

    As one of the rabid anti-Apple people around here, I agree with Tim Cook on this.
    Apple's not tricking their customers into this arrangement; it's something the customers choose.
    Choice is good. Apple should absolutely be allowed to do this, and people who don't like it can buy from the competition.

  • Is Cook saying we should install Android on iPhones? Does he mean dual boot or just overwrite iOS?

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