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Apple

Apple Takes Down Koran App in China (bbc.com) 78

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Apple has taken down one of the world's most popular Koran apps in China, following a request from officials. From a report: Quran Majeed is available across the world on the App Store -- and has nearly 150,000 reviews. It is used by millions of Muslims. The BBC understands that the app was removed for hosting illegal religious texts. The Chinese government has not responded to the BBC's request for comment. The deletion of the app was first noticed by Apple Censorship -- a website that monitors apps on Apple's App Store globally. In a statement from the app's maker, PDMS, the company said: "According to Apple, our app Quran Majeed has been removed from the China App store because it includes content that requires additional documentation from Chinese authorities."

"We are trying to get in touch with the Cyberspace Administration of China and relevant Chinese authorities to get this issue resolved." The company said it had close to one million users in China. The Chinese Communist Party officially recognises Islam as a religion in the country. However, China has been accused of human rights violations, and even genocide, against the mostly Muslim Uyghur ethnic group in Xinjiang. Earlier this year the BBC reported that Uyghur imams had been targeted in China's Xinjiang crackdown. Apple declined to comment, but directed the BBC to its Human Rights Policy, which states: "We're required to comply with local laws, and at times there are complex issues about which we may disagree with governments."
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Apple Takes Down Koran App in China More

Apple Takes Down Koran App in China

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  • apple is pro China will they let an app bypass in app pay if the government says that for say tax pay app that apple can not take an 30% of it?

    • Re:apple is pro China will they let an app bypass (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Friday October 15, 2021 @02:50PM (#61895785) Journal

      apple is pro China

      Apple are hypocrites. They'll loudly promote things according to their California politics within the US or European markets, but they cower in the face of China, Saudi Arabia, etc. They heavily virtue signal their NorCal priorities domestically, but these liberal pieties suddenly disappear when the CCP or some King/Prince/Mullah commands. We've seen it time and again with this company.

      • Re:apple is pro China will they let an app bypass (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday October 15, 2021 @03:05PM (#61895847)

        They're a corporation. They make money. All other concerns are irrelevant to them. Even particular leanings of a political nature, like all companies, are done for the purpose of making money. It's not hypocritical because the stance "we want to make money" is not changing.

        • This argument is such a cop-out. There is also the long game. In the end it is quite possible this lack of morality at the corporate level will result in regulation (or consumer outrage) causing losses in profits much, much greater than simply losing all business in China. And I hope this does happen in the case of Apple. I've said time and time again large corporations are physically incapable of looking after their own long-term interests beyond next quarter's numbers. They just don't have the discipline

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Google doesn't operate in China. Google services are blocked there.

          Google took the decision not to enter the Chinese market, to forego huge profits, on ethical grounds.

      • It is for every company the same.
        What else could Apple do besides following the law?

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by fazig ( 2909523 )
          There's this belief about self regulating Capitalism goes hand in hand with strong moral values.
          So the expectancy would be that Apple does follow the law. But because of their strong moral values supporting Freedom of Speech they shouldn't resort to censorship but instead pull out of the Chinese market.

          And then when corporations who have the right to make a profit choose that profit over whatever morals the people, who believe in that strong moral values Capitalism hold dear, they're somehow shocked.

          • If Apple would go completely out of the Chinese market, 1 billion Chinese could not get all the other apps that seem not to be a problem.

            Why would anyone do that?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by fazig ( 2909523 )
              Exactly. Hardly any corporation would do that.

              They might stand up a bit in systems of law, like the US, the EU, or Australia, where you can go into court and have a chance of the court siding with you against a government request/regulation on grounds of something not being constitutional or whatever. But in the end they'll take a defeat in court and continue doing business there anyway. However in authoritarian or totalitarian countries standing up against the government usually only has one outcome, you

        • Re:apple is pro China will they let an app bypass (Score:5, Insightful)

          by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Friday October 15, 2021 @04:24PM (#61896205) Journal

          What else could Apple do besides following the law?

          The difference is that in the US and Europe, Apple lobbies and even threatens to withhold business when it comes to enacting US laws on things like gay marriage. They do NOT do the same in the other countries. They wouldn't dare threaten the Saudis or the Chinese or the Malaysians. China or an Arab market says jump, Apple says "How high?".

          Apples US/European position: we don't like your law, so you'd better change it or else.
          Apple's position vis a vis China/Arabia/Etc: nope, none of our business what you do, of course we'll follow your laws

          Bottom line: Apple doesn't fear US or European government, cultural, and religious authorities. So it's hard to believe that they're also afraid of these other countries.

          That leaves just hypocrisy as an explanation.

          • Sorry, I did not grasp a single word.
            So Apple is pro or against gay marriage?
            It did lobby in EU for gay marriage or against it?

            Apple is a company. It most certainly never threatened an EU state to close its business there.

          • I think there may be another explanation. Apple knows full well that if they piss off the wrong person in the Chinese or Saudi governments, they will no longer be doing any business at all in those countries. All they have to do is give the word, and your company is no longer allowed there. The US and EU does not work like that, so Apple has a lot more leeway there -- and they will use every bit of it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Apple regularly losses to the EU. For example on USB charging.

    • apple is pro China

      This is some context for people that think China is going to go to Afghanistan and build a bunch of mines and shit, and somehow not get blown up because they'll get magical protection from the Taliban.

  • Is the real reason Apple is dismissive of third-party app stores and side-loading apps so that it can maintain a relationship with governments such as these? What I mean is, will China take action against Android for allowing such apps to be installed? I know the article was focused on monitoring Apple's app store but surely the Chinese government would be just as interested in banning the same app for Android users. If not, is this really just about building a better relationship with the Chinese governmen

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      I am the last person to defend the CCP and I am not. However my guess would be yes - not even sure Google has a Chinese specific play store (my guess is they do) but they'd probably be asked to not sell the Android version of this app too.

      • They don't. All google is blocked. Of course people use vpns though. Chinese makers use Android but pretty much always gut the Google Apps. Each maker has their own store.

        I am on a Huawei phone right now in China.

        • I am on a Huawei phone right now in China.

          I knew smartphones were bigger in Asia, but this is becoming ridiculous.

  • What took so damn long there CCP, you sleeping on the job?

  • Ban the Koran everywhere, and the Bible... /s

    I'm wondering if this "Take Down" will result in some worldwide issues for Apple?

    There are billions of Muslims, and they don't take kindly to anyone screwing with their religion.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      To bad the CIA is to busy trying to figure out who is sleeping with Russia hookers and why the break room microwaves are melting everyones brains to do anything useful like try and spark a jihad against the CCP.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
        Well that would be rather dificult since the CCPs brand if communism a political ideology and not a religion. I'm nit well versed in arabic so correct me if I'm wrong but doesn"t jihad literaly mean "holy war" as in war for religious reasons?

        • It means holly war, but not sure if that implies religious reasons or not - as in inly gathering people of your religion.

          On the other hand, while from a muslim point of view a war on jews or christians is completely unwarranted: the chinese are mostly heathens, from a muslim point of view: so actually prime target for expansion.

  • Good thing they can just side load it... oh..shit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Friday October 15, 2021 @02:29PM (#61895719)

    And this is one of the reasons apple's walled garden is truly evil. It is ultimately a tool that would inevitably be.. and now has been... used for censorship.

    • This is hardly the first time it's happened.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by vux984 ( 928602 )

        Yes, but I'm not sure what your reply is supposed to imply?

        Police shoot unarmed black man? It's hardly the first time it's happened.
        Girl murdered by boyfriend in the woods. It's hardly the first time it's happened.
        Company does illegal union busting? It's hardly the first time it's happened.
        President declares election fraud and attempts to remain in power? It's hardly the first time it's happened.

        Yeah... that response doesn't really change my perspective on any of these. If anything it means the problem is

    • If only there were an app on the iPhone that let you use some sort of network-based application that doesn't need Apple's approval to run. Maybe you could even access information on it, like a Koran.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by vux984 ( 928602 )

        It's probably not the brightest idea in the universe to connect out to the public internet to retrieve information your government doesn't want you to see.

        Something that runs locally, and doesn't connect to the internet, like a locally installed app with local resources is far better.

        • Safety (Score:2)

          by JBMcB ( 73720 )

          That would be true, except, I'm pretty sure, China knows what apps everyone is installing. In the US, the government can subpoena those records, too.

          With the web there can be *some* level of plausible deniability. I went to a site but didn't look at a particular page. Although, China could probably hoover up web logs, too.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by vux984 ( 928602 )

            In the US, the government can subpoena those records, too.

            From whom can they subpoena what apps you've side loaded exactly?

            Granted, the OS could theoretically phone all that home, but that's a related but separate privacy violation perpetrated by Apple/Google that should also be called out.

            • Google (Score:2)

              by JBMcB ( 73720 )

              From whom can they subpoena what apps you've side loaded exactly?

              Granted, the OS could theoretically phone all that home, but that's a related but separate privacy violation perpetrated by Apple/Google that should also be called out.

              You've figured it out. Google hoovers up *everything* that's on your phone. You've agreed to it in their terms of service. IIRC it's part of the application and OS system update request cycle, so if anything fails during an update Google can figure out if an app is causing the breakage.

              You can root the phone and disable updates, but, I'm pretty sure, that puts you on another list of people to keep an eye on.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I imagine the Chinese government knows, or can easily find it what apps someone has installed.

    • What? Isn't there a web based version?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by vux984 ( 928602 )

        So you're the guy who when he hears the government has banned selling a particular book your solution is to suggest going to read it at the public library under the government surveillance cameras.

    • Muslims have been reading the Koran for centuries without needing an app to do it. More than likely, many Muslims in China can't afford an Apple phone, what with them being persecuted and so on. If this is intended to be censorship, it looks pretty ineffectual to me.

  • Fake woke Apple (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday October 15, 2021 @02:51PM (#61895795)
    Next time SJWs cheer for Big Tech shutting down conservatives keep in mind, these companies are not on your side and you are just enabling censorship.

  • Perhaps there will be less idiotic Apple fanboys at least in that part of the world now that they see what are the real consequences of blocking sideloading and third party stores for their dumbphones.

  • Is there any doubt? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    What's the difference between present day US corporations and the likes of IBM, Kodak, Coca-Cola, Bayer, Siemens et el nearly a century ago? Does anyone believe for a second these companies would conduct themselves any differently in similar circumstances?

  • Do developers in "certain" countries where you do business pay the 15/30 percent on iOS purchases to the Apple mothership? If they pay anything, does it go somewhere else? Tim Apple can you tell us?

  • It's no news at all that Apple has a policy of removing apps with hate speech.

    I guess the real news would be that it was allowed in the first place, and an investigation into why.

  • You know who they are this way, and where they are and who they are talking to, what parts they are reading, the fertilizer they order online...

  • Imagine being SO insecure with words written over a thousand years ago that you think making them "illegal" will stop them.

    Yay for Communist Censorship Propaganda and Apple being hypocrites! /s

    • Yeah, because religion never harmed anyone.
      Get a clue.

      • Yeah, because only religious people murder, steal, lie, cheat. /s

        Get a fucking clue.

      • You're being a terrible atheist right now. No atheists who are worth anything believe that religion should be banned by governments. We just want religion to stop being a part of the lawmaking process and to ensure that all people have the freedom to choose religion or not. What they're talking about here? Yeah, we DON'T support that. Not even a little.

  • Good (Score:1)

    by dwater ( 72834 )

    Laws are not to be made by corporations. If they, or their employees, don't agree with the laws of the land, then bye bye.
    The gfw enables enforcement of the laws, so it won't go anywhere. It also allows countries to come up their own laws and not be dictated to by foreign powers.
    Having said that, this is more likely just someone being over-zealous.

  • What will the US warhawks choose? Defend Muslimsâ(TM) right to access the Koran? Or Defend the CCPs actions towards reducing (US backed) Extreme Islamic Fundamentalism?
  • Where commies always make a big mistake is attacking peoples religion. Hopefully this will really unite the Muslim world.

  • There are all sorts of other ways Apple can maneuver to prevent government overreach. They fight that fight in other jurisdictions.

    China won't be having any of that. Apple can comply, or pack up and leave. I don't blame Apple for their choice, and I wouldn't hold it against them.

    Besides, every last person in this forum does significant business with China, despite their policies.

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