Apple Readies MacBook Pro, MacBook Air Revamps With Faster Chips (bloomberg.com) 189
Apple is preparing to release several new Mac laptops and desktops with faster processors, new designs and improved connectivity to external devices, accelerating the company's effort to replace Intel chips and leapfrog rival PC makers. From a report: The overhaul encompasses a broad range of Macs, including Apple's higher-end laptop, the MacBook Pro; the laptop aimed at the mass market, the MacBook Air; and its desktop computers, the Mac Pro, iMac and Mac mini, according to people familiar with the matter. Redesigned MacBook Pros are expected to debut as soon as early this summer, said the people, who requested anonymity to discuss an internal matter, followed by a revamped MacBook Air, a new low-end MacBook Pro and an all-new Mac Pro workstation.
The company is also working on a higher-end Mac mini desktop and larger iMac. The machines will feature processors designed in-house that will greatly outpace the performance and capabilities of the current M1 chips, the people said. Apple plans to launch the redesigned MacBook Pros in 14-inch (code name J314) and 16-inch screen (J316) sizes. They'll have a redesigned chassis, magnetic MagSafe charger and more ports for connecting external drives and devices. Apple is also bringing back the HDMI port and SD card slot, which it nixed in previous versions, sparking criticism from photographers and the like.
The company is also working on a higher-end Mac mini desktop and larger iMac. The machines will feature processors designed in-house that will greatly outpace the performance and capabilities of the current M1 chips, the people said. Apple plans to launch the redesigned MacBook Pros in 14-inch (code name J314) and 16-inch screen (J316) sizes. They'll have a redesigned chassis, magnetic MagSafe charger and more ports for connecting external drives and devices. Apple is also bringing back the HDMI port and SD card slot, which it nixed in previous versions, sparking criticism from photographers and the like.
that doesnt make sense (Score:2)
They just released new desktops with their new chip. The chip was announced Nov 10, 2020. Product cycle still has another 6 months with M1.
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They just released new desktops with their new chip. The chip was announced Nov 10, 2020. Product cycle still has another 6 months with M1.
If you mean the new iMacs, they have the same M1 SoC as the current MacBook Air, MacBook Pro 13", and Mac mini.
There are rumors of an imminent Mac Pro refresh; but that is supposed to use a previously-unreleased 10-core (Xeon?) CPU; not an Apple Silicon SoC.
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They got zero-business still using Intel CPUs on their future Mac Pros, especially since other Linux ARM workstations are actually a thing.
Really? Are they running Apple Silicon SoCs; or just bog-standard ARM reference-design CPUs/Microcontrollers?
They are treading carefully into the high-end ARM market. They have no experience there. But I am sure that their ASi Mac Pro is going to trounce the Xeon-based one.
And keep in mind that TSMC is already pretty much maxed-out, capacity-wise. Could be that the ASi CPUs are just waiting in the fab-line queue. As a low-demand product, I'm sure Apple is busy right now pumping out M1 and its successor (M2,
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They got zero-business still using Intel CPUs on their future Mac Pros, especially since other Linux ARM workstations are actually a thing.
By the way, they might actually be taking that first leap.
Evidence:
Exhibit 1: They just released an M1-powered 24" iMac to replace the 21" Intel iMac; but no replacement for the 27" iMac happened at the same time.
Exhibit 2: They just quietly killed-off the iMac Pro. Only 1 generation of that product (which people seem to actually like).
Exhibit 3: Big-time Sales on the current 27" iMac. I think I saw $350 off! That sure sounds like getting rid of existing stock.
Exhibit 4: Rumors a few months ago regarding a
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It was obvious that the next step would be a mid-range chip, and 8+2 cores should be about as powerful as Intel 12-core chips. And every model where having a low-end version and a mid-range version makes sense, will get another version with a mid-range chip. I suppose it makes sense for MacBook,
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And every model where having a low-end version and a mid-range version makes sense, will get another version with a mid-range chip. I suppose it makes sense for MacBook, MacMini, 24" iMac and a replacement for the 27" iMac. Maybe not for the MacBook Air.
I think the MBA (and maybe the iMac 24") will stay on the M1 for another year.
I don't think the 27" iMac nor the 16" MacBook Pro are going to get a minor bump. Only having 2 High Efficiency cores means that there will be too much stealing of High Performance cores to do menial tasks. IMHO, 8 + 4 Cores are more likely for the "midrange chip", with maybe a 12 + 4 as an BTO option.
Up to 64 gigs of RAM on the die? (Score:4, Interesting)
I just hope that rumor of 64 gigs of RAM on the CPU silicon hold true. 16 gigs is OK for a desktop I might use with a Citrix or VMWare Horizon client, as well as some light web browsing, but that isn't going to cut it when I start working on code and using Vagrant for testing, or doing serious video or audio editing.
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16 gigs is OK for a desktop I might use with a Citrix or VMWare Horizon client, as well as some light web browsing
The state of software these days really is sad.
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On one hand, yeah, the waste of memory is unfortunate.
On the other hand, RAM is not expensive. You can cram a lot of it into a PC. And even some macs, though not enough of them, because Apple is forcing market segmentation in order to sell higher-end product.
There are some limited upsides to the mac world, but in general it's like it or lump it.
Re:Up to 64 gigs of RAM on the die? (Score:4, Informative)
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Minor quibble: the M1 RAM isn't "on die", it's "on package". Meaning, the package is a multi-chip module, where one of those chips is the M1 SoC (with the processors, neural engine, GPU, and cache hierarchy, memory controller, IO, etc.) and two more chips are RAM. Currently, the highest density for that particular type of RAM is 12G per chip, for a maximum theoretical configuration of 24G (Apple only allows 8G and 16G configurations by using lower density parts). However, a larger package could support more than two RAM chips (with a different SoC, obviously, since it would need a different memory controller). But, it would still be challenging to get beyond 48G on-package (4 x 12G RAM chips). More likely is an approach Apple has already filed a patent for: using a smaller amount of on-package RAM as another level of cache, backed by a large amount of standard off-package RAM (either soldered to the board or socketed, depending on the system design; I would imagine a Mac Pro would use socketed, while a "big" Mac mini might use soldered). This would support very large amounts of total RAM without raising the costs of the SoC+package significantly.
That's pretty much my thinking as well.
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I just hope that rumor of 64 gigs of RAM on the CPU silicon hold true
That would be amazing.
Mac pro level hardware? or ashtray 2.0? (Score:2)
Mac pro level hardware? or ashtray 2.0? with no EXT video cards?
The mac pro needs to have
PCI-E slots
SATA ports or m.2 slots (Non apple only)
can use at least 1TB of ram
Video power to drive at least 4 4k displays.
Re:Mac pro level hardware? or ashtray 2.0? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mac pro level hardware? or ashtray 2.0? with no EXT video cards?
The mac pro needs to have
PCI-E slots
SATA ports or m.2 slots (Non apple only)
can use at least 1TB of ram
Video power to drive at least 4 4k displays.
That's why they appear to be taking their time with the Mac Pro transition, as I have previously predicted.
The Mac Pro will be the last model transitioned to Apple Silicon. They most certainly have it in development; but I would be very surprised to see an ASi Mac Pro this year.
But next year is a pretty safe bet.
I don't need a faster Mac (Score:2)
I need Apple to start fixing the bugs in its existing Mac software. They seem to have a policy of "We didn't fix that bug in the last release, so we're never going to fix it."
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I don't disagree with that statement. That said, the changes (magsafe, much needed ports and the removal of that god awful touchbar) are pretty much bugfixes of the hardware.
It is clearly a good thing that the hack Ive is out. Now add some decent cooling and we may have a decent device again.
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Let's not forget the fact that they finally dropped the butterfly keyboards. What works perfectly in a cleanroom doesn't always work in the real world.
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I need a Mac with a decent keyboard. All other things are secondary. And I don't just mean the keys - the whole layout is just awful. I had a corporate issued Macbook Pro for the last 3 years and hated every minute with it.
That doesn't affect sales (Score:2)
Therefore it's not a problem for the seller.
Magsafe? *new* magsafe? (Score:2)
Is this going to be a *new* Magsafe connector?
We need another new Mac power connector like we need a hole in the head. USB-C finally allowed me to unify the modern gadget power in my house and travel gear around a single high-power USB-C/A power brick (-C for laptops, phones, etc, and -A for very low power gadgets like headphones and smartwatches). Magsafe 1/2 was nice enough but having to have two power bricks everywhere - one for magsafe, one for USB - really began to chafe.
Having the old Magsafe connect
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Having the old Magsafe connector back might not be too bad, at least I have the infrastructure left over for it still, but it's a pain. Being able to power a Macbook via either Magsafe or USB-C would be acceptable since then I can use USB-C and carry on with my current pleasant life.
Just FWIW, the Microsoft Surface can charge using their proprietary magsafe-esque connector or a standard USB-C charger.
I would hope for the same here.
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Prepare to be disappointed.
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Wouldn't it be funny if Apple made their new magsafe connector the same as Microsoft?
It would take courage, but you can do it, Apple!
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I have very little liking for the idea of having to buy even more power adapters for new power connectors.
Very little indeed.
(Apple) "We do understand your hesitation. To offer you some re-assurance, we won't even include the power adapter with your new purchase, as we we want you to have that financial flexibility. For only $199 more, you too can charge your laptop three times faster with our new dedicated power port! What? Slow down USB-C charging? No, we would never think of such a thing..."
Dual Monitor Support? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hopefully they'll fix that little oversight with the first gen M1 laptops.
I was ready to buy one the other day. I had it in my cart and was just adding accessories and couldn't figure out which dongle to get to support two monitors. Turns out that the M1 MacBooks don't support dual monitor* setups (well, not easily - there's a software driver + dongle solution, but it's not as pretty as plugging in two cables).
Seemed like a huge miss on Apple's part, will the new ones address this?
*really tri-monitor - two external + the laptop screen, which I've been doing on a 2016 Intel MBP since 2016
Re:Dual Monitor Support? (Score:5, Informative)
This is another consequence of the M1 CPU in the Macs being really an overgrown ARM SOC, not a CPU with integrated peripherals. The design assumes some very fixed hardware limits for specific device applications and then takes advantage of these to design the system package down to a price, size, and thermal profile. This is why your phone or your tablet has some pretty amazing hardware capabilities for something with that size and power but has much less flexibility. It can't come with much more RAM than designed, or drive multi displays, or so on, outside the very fixed and finite design parameters of the SOC.
The Intel Macs, and other Intel laptops, can both have extended RAM and graphics buses - so that's why you can get 32GB or 64GB RAM and dedicated, powerful graphics options to drive multiple screens in your Macbook Pro. Even the internal graphics are designed from a point of view of "how much graphics can we reasonably cram into this die with the CPU", not "what do we need to deliver to this customer and that's all we will put in here". Therefore even internal (on-CPU-die) graphics support multiple displays, because system flexibility is important in a general purpose computer.
SOC design has "good enough" graphics and memory in a Package-On-Package layout (or equivalent next to each other), and are fixed like this early on in the design process. You can't swap out the memory for more, or graphics for more, and so on, without redesigning and re-integrating the entire System on the Chip.
You may think of your Mac these days as a fixed non-flexible package (especially since the RAM and storage are soldered on now) but the Intel CPU, GPU, and buses are quite flexible despite Apple's packaging decisions. The M1 SOC is not at all flexible and here you see the problems, including that supporting dual monitors is not just a fairly simple interface wiring issue but a fundamental design decision (not to do that).
Apple's design needs to mature away from that SOC "device" design paradigm to a more flexible "computer" design paradigm for the higher end equipment.
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Apple's GPU is very much a mobile device too. It's cut down and doesn't fully support everything needed for OpenGL or similar higher level APIs, only Apple's own Metal. It's proving to be an issue for support in Linux: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asa... [rosenzweig.io]
They can get away with it on a laptop but will people be satisfied with that in a Pro desktop machine?
Also LOL at "leapfrog rival PC makers", the M1 isn't even in the same league as Ryzen performance-wise. I really doubt that the GPU will overtake what AMD put
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supporting dual monitors is not just a fairly simple interface wiring issue but a fundamental design decision
It is, however, merely implementing DisplayPort correctly. Multistream Transport should allow that over a single connector. And supposedly that will come with a future firmware update.
Apple's design needs to mature away from that SOC "device" design paradigm to a more flexible "computer" design paradigm for the higher end equipment.
Computing in general is "maturing" in the SoC direction. If upgrades aren't truly needed as often as they used to be, then long-term reliability is going to be more important. At least for their own customers, you regularly see computers held by the same owner for nearly 10 years in a lot of cases. Even Intel Macs were us
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Apple's design needs to mature away from that SOC "device" design paradigm to a more flexible "computer" design paradigm for the higher end equipment.
Apple's design has just matured to a SOC "device" design paradigm :-) What you see as weakness because it's not what you are used to is a strength. There's one chip for ALL current M1 Macs, with RAM size being the only difference. And in the future there will be two chips for ALL current Silicone Macs. It doesn't have to be flexible. You buy the cheap powerful one, or the expensive _really_ powerful one.
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I agree with what you are saying here, but given that the Raspberry Pi 4 has dual monitor support (which works surprisingly well with Raspberry Pi OS and Xfce), I'm surprised that Apple wasn't willing to put it in. I work with two principals at my school who have Macs, and they are both running dual monitors off of their Macbook Pro. I think we'll see it come back even if it takes a generation or two. I'm reassured by the news that HDMI ports and SD card slots are coming back, that's the first time I've
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Apple's design decisions are... Well, take the new iMac. It's 11mm thick, very sleek, thinner than an Apple watch. But boy is it compromised to get it that thin.
There's no Ethernet jack. The higher end models have one... On the power brick. Oh yeah, there's a power brick because they couldn't fit it into the care. The case with a giant chin under the screen where the motherboard goes, because it's so thin it can't fit behind the LCD panel.
No USB A ports either. C only, and the base model has fewer of those.
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Thanks for the insightful reply (no mod points since I posted the parent :) ).
I didn't realize how much the SOC approach was used with the M1. The dual monitor limitation makes sense in the that. It's still annoying, but at least it makes sense technically.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes for Apple and what other design limitations emerge if they stick with the wholistic approach. Another reply mentions incomplete OpenGL implementations as another casualty.
From a dev perspective, I love the heter
Re:Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Informative)
This conveys your preferences to the Slashdot editors via whatever analytical tools they employ and it will also reduce your general angriness at again having involved yourself in an internet discussion about a topic you don't actually like.
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Sorry, no can do. That is much too simple. It's like when people complain about Amazon and Jeff Bezos. The easiest thing is to not buy from them but like your suggestion, that is too easy to do so it won't be done.
Re:Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Every second article or so is about Apple. Can we please get less of that cr*p?
Name one other Consumer-level PC OEM that is doing anything even slightly as unique and forward-looking as Apple.
I'll wait.
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:2)
Right. None of them are doing anything much interesting. This isn't a consumer electronics blog. We need fewer slashvertisements.
Then again, this is apple.slashdot.org, so maybe this is the consumer gadget subsection of /.
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We need fewer slashvertisements.
Without Slashvertisements there would be no Slashdot. Articles like these subsidize the ones that aren't paid promotions.
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Articles like these subsidize the ones that aren't paid promotions.
Which ones would those be? The clickbait and political flamebait stories?
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Slashdot's mission veered away from being a place to discuss FOSS a long time ago. Before the sale even. The primary purpose for it is to generate revenue either directly, via ad revenue, or driving users to something revenue generating (like Thinkgeek).
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Right. None of them are doing anything much interesting. This isn't a consumer electronics blog. We need fewer slashvertisements.
Then again, this is apple.slashdot.org, so maybe this is the consumer gadget subsection of /.
I merely called Apple a "Consumer-level" PC OEM, so that Slashdot Pendants wouldn't fire back with "Whatabout (fill in the blank Supercomputer)? They already have 128-core ARM CPUs with 24 TB memory!"
But I would hardly call the 2019 Mac Pro, or even the 2020 10-core i9 iMac with 128 GB RAM a "Consumer Gadget". It is a fairly high-end workstation, by nearly any reasonable measure.
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Slashdot Pedants are more offended by your misuse of the word pendant.
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Slashdot Pedants are more offended by your misuse of the word pendant.
touche! I always mispel that! ;-)
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Powerful computer specifications: Slashdot readers like it!
Powerful computer specifications made by Apple: Slashdot readers hate it!
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Right. None of them are doing anything much interesting.
(Apple) "No, the new model does not have a touchscreen."
(You) "Interesting."
(Apple) "Yes, we do offer HDMI and SD card slots."
(You) "Interesting."
(Apple) "Oh, we have new colors!"
(You) "Interesting."
The only thing interesting here, is seeing how warped the definition of interesting has become.
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Lenovo.
Thin and light, but also maintainable, upgradable and repairable. Top notch screens, touch pads, the best keyboards on the market. Performance that is beyond double an M1 from Ryzen CPUs and mobile Radeon GPUs. Lots of nice little touches like lighting, screw sizes marked on the case.
They also have a load of more out-there designs like the Yoga laptop/tablet hybrid, which has proven to be a concept people like as they have been selling them for years.
So far it's really not clear what Apple has delive
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Re:Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Every second article or so is about Apple. Can we please get less of that cr*p?
Name one other Consumer-level PC OEM that is doing anything even slightly as unique and forward-looking as Apple.
I'll wait.
Disposable hardware that barely lasts a few years, sealed PC chassis, non-removable soldered components, and the removal of most I/O ports?
First, off, the FUCK is so damn forward-thinking about THAT, and secondly, you act as if the world following suit, is somehow a good thing.
Disposable hardware?!? Hardly!
I have almost a dozen Macs, all but one bought used, and only 1 of them has ever had a hardware failure. I am typing this on a 2012 MacBook Pro that hasn't skipped a beat since I bought it.
And if Apple didn't push new I/O technologies, we'd still be flipping DIP switches to set our Serial and Parallel cards, and storing files on 5 1/4" floppies.
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Typing this on (a keyboard connected to) a mid-2010 Mac mini. Still working great after upgrading the RAM to 16GB and swapping the slow HDD for an entry-level Kingston SSD a few years ago. Still running fine, but starting to feel slow by modern standards.
Waiting to see these new rumoured MacBook Air and Mac mini before upgrading.
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Every second article or so is about Apple. Can we please get less of that cr*p?
Name one other Consumer-level PC OEM that is doing anything even slightly as unique and forward-looking as Apple.
I'll wait.
Disposable hardware that barely lasts a few years, sealed PC chassis, non-removable soldered components, and the removal of most I/O ports?
First, off, the FUCK is so damn forward-thinking about THAT, and secondly, you act as if the world following suit, is somehow a good thing.
Disposable hardware?!? Hardly!
I have almost a dozen Macs, all but one bought used, and only 1 of them has ever had a hardware failure. I am typing this on a 2012 MacBook Pro that hasn't skipped a beat since I bought it.
And if Apple didn't push new I/O technologies, we'd still be flipping DIP switches to set our Serial and Parallel cards, and storing files on 5 1/4" floppies.
I have an Apple IIc that still works just fine too. Functioning is only part of the user support problem. Forcing hardware obsolescence because you refuse to load or support a supported OS, is another matter entirely, which turns a hardware longevity argument into a pointless brag.
I too have a few Macs that have become little more than pieces of art because they're not supported.
And I don't mind vendors pushing new technologies. Of course that encourages innovation. Unfortunately for Apple that transla
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Disposable hardware that barely lasts a few years, sealed PC chassis, non-removable soldered components, and the removal of most I/O ports?
Disposable hardware like this 2013 iMac that still runs like new? How many 2013 PCs are still around, let alone in this condition?
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That iMac is before the era being described. Apple's only good years in the last decade were 2012/2013 and 2015 for hardware reliability. Most of the other years before and after have major flaws - whether it's the Magsafe debacle, the stage light problem, bad SSD firmware, expanding batteries, the keyboard that can be disabled by dust, etc.
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Disposable hardware that barely lasts a few years, sealed PC chassis, non-removable soldered components, and the removal of most I/O ports?
Disposable hardware like this 2013 iMac that still runs like new? How many 2013 PCs are still around, let alone in this condition?
I have a consulting client that still uses his 2009 iMac!
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Disposable hardware like this 2013 iMac that still runs like new? How many 2013 PCs are still around, let alone in this condition?
My 10 year old thinkpad is still just fine. A mac of its age would be out of support software wise just about and unable to have further updates. This machine will keep going a while yet.
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Survivor bias, and also cherry picking a good year. The ones that came after that have keyboards that will die fast, and are not economical to replace.
By the way, I have a 2012 NEC LaVie ultrabook. Thinner and lighter, and still as good as new. Turns out if you look after stuff it lasts.
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The 2012 Mac Mini is still a good machine, and you can upgrade the memory and hard drive yourself. (I put in an SSD and installed Windows.) But you're stuck with gigabit Ethernet, same as the new M1 Minis.
I recently built a new computer, my first since I hopped on the Mac bandwagon in 2006, and even though it's a new i7, with the way I use it, it's only about twice as fast as the 2012 Mini.
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That 2013 iMac is an i7. I future-proof by high-speccing on new hear.
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EDIT: ...new gear.
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The 2012 Mac Mini is still a good machine, and you can upgrade the memory and hard drive yourself. (I put in an SSD and installed Windows.) But you're stuck with gigabit Ethernet, same as the new M1 Minis.
I recently built a new computer, my first since I hopped on the Mac bandwagon in 2006, and even though it's a new i7, with the way I use it, it's only about twice as fast as the 2012 Mini.
I just checked, and the M1 mini is configurable with 10g Ethernet.
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Re:Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know, like, this is supposed to be News for Nerds. How could the sudden upending of several CPU monopolies in the laptop and desktop space with far-reaching consequences be relevant?
After decades of "Year of the Linux Desktop" failing to deliver, nobody even bothered to wonder when it would be the "Year of the Non-Intel Powerhouse". Yet here we are, merely a year away from seeing a major manufacturer expunge Intel from their product line. Head-spinning comes to mind.
Oh, wait, you're right. That manufacturer is Apple, so therefore it's not news. (/sarcasm)
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I know, like, this is supposed to be News for Nerds. How could the sudden upending of several CPU monopolies in the laptop and desktop space with far-reaching consequences be relevant?
After decades of "Year of the Linux Desktop" failing to deliver, nobody even bothered to wonder when it would be the "Year of the Non-Intel Powerhouse". Yet here we are, merely a year away from seeing a major manufacturer expunge Intel from their product line. Head-spinning comes to mind.
Oh, wait, you're right. That manufacturer is Apple, so therefore it's not news. (/sarcasm)
Exactly!
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Unlike Microsoft, with Intel, MIPs, DEC Alpha, and now most recently their very tepid foray into ARM.
Yup, you're right, only Evil Apple would consider alternate CPU architectures.
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is basically the only consumer pc successfully manufacturer who has *successfully* transitioned from one cpu architecture to another. Repeatedly.
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Apple is basically the only consumer pc successfully manufacturer who has *successfully* transitioned from one cpu architecture to another. Repeatedly.
And they do it with nearly perfect seamlessness. Can you imagine the shitshow if this was Microsoft attempting this?
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Yeah, it's a lot easier if you dead-end all legacy software. Microsoft doesn't really do that.
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It's also why Microsoft is more popular than Macs.
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It's more than that. They break software permanently way more often than just CPU transition time.
And just like Rosetta before it, they'll remove it completely in a year or two and force you to a new version of any/all software.
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It's more than that. They break software permanently way more often than just CPU transition time.
And just like Rosetta before it, they'll remove it completely in a year or two and force you to a new version of any/all software.
The alternative is Microsoft, who just keeps piling layer upon layer of cruft on top of their already-rickety OS.
Change is good. Disruptive change is even better (usually).
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Disruptive change means you wait an entire OS cycle for a bug to be fixed. And instead of the bug finally getting fixed, you just get a whole new set of bugs.
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Disruptive change means you wait an entire OS cycle for a bug to be fixed. And instead of the bug finally getting fixed, you just get a whole new set of bugs.
I honestly think Apple needs to slow down on the "continuous sprint" schedule of OS development. They kind of have to do that right now, due to the platform-change; but after that settles down, I would much rather see a "Tick-Tock" timetable for MacOS (and maybe iOS/iPadOS) Development.
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They've broken so many things with the release of Snow Leopard, then High Sierra, again with Mojave, and now Big Sur (even on Intel). If you're waiting for them to stop doing this, you've already been waiting a long time and it's a bit unreasonable to think they'd change now.
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I can only attest to the shitshow that is Windows 10, and I'm exclusively using that PC for gaming.
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I can only attest to the shitshow that is Windows 10, and I'm exclusively using that PC for gaming.
I am well-versed in MS' various attempts at a non-sucky OS. Windows 7 is as close as they came; but it still looks like Windows 95 compared with any version of OS X/macOS.
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No need to worry about that, everyone here hates MS too.
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple is basically the only consumer pc successfully manufacturer who has *successfully* transitioned from one cpu architecture to another. Repeatedly. ...?
There are intel and Arm chromebooks out there, which is a consumer mixed architecture thing. Now whether it's a PC, I mean if a mac is a PC then so are they I feel. Also I can buy Linux laptops from a number of vendors both x86 and ARM these days. There were even some MIPS ones around for a while. Your comment only really makes sense in the context of vertical integration.
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I mean if a mac is a PC
Since "PC" means "Personal Computer", then yes, Macs are most definitely "PCs".
Now turn in your Geek Card immediately!
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft has never committed to any actual transition, all other architectures have been secondary options with half-hearted support.
Apple has done full-up architectural swaps three times (68K to PPC, PPC to Intel, Intel to ARM), each time going all-in and making a pretty smooth transition of it through a combination of emulation and fat/universal binaries. The 68K to PPC transition was particularly seamless, with even most of the OS being emulated for a while. This isn't even including the sub-architectural transitions they've done, like the shift from 24-bit to 32-bit addressing on the 68K, the shift from 32-bit to 64-bit on PPC, Intel, and ARM, though in the latter case that sub-transition was only done on iOS since the laptop/desktop ARM chips were 64-bit from the get-go.
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:2)
Boy, there's never any love for the transition from the MOS 6502 to the WDC W65C816.
Re: (Score:2)
Boy, there's never any love for the transition from the MOS 6502 to the WDC W65C816.
Hey, my Apple ][+ has an 65816 (65802) in it, you insensitive clod!
If the Apple IIgs had not come out a few years too late, there would have been serious Developer uptake of the 2 MHz 65816 in there...
Re: (Score:2)
Did they actually transition, or did they just keep shipping the old CPU in the new computers to run the legacy code? :P
Re: (Score:2)
The IIgs runs 8-bit Apple II software on the 65816 with an ASIC that emulates the rest of an Apple IIe. It doesn't have an additional CPU for running old software. The IIe card for Macs with LC PDS slots does add a 6502 processor to the Mac for running Apple II software, although Apple later released a IIgs emulator for Mac, and there was a pretty good shareware IIe emulator.
Re: (Score:2)
The IIgs runs 8-bit Apple II software on the 65816 with an ASIC that emulates the rest of an Apple IIe. It doesn't have an additional CPU for running old software. The IIe card for Macs with LC PDS slots does add a 6502 processor to the Mac for running Apple II software, although Apple later released a IIgs emulator for Mac, and there was a pretty good shareware IIe emulator.
When did Apple have a IIgs emulator?
And since the WDC65816 is backward-compatible with a R65C02 (note the distinction), no "second CPU" was required.
Re: (Score:3)
Apple has done full-up architectural swaps three times (68K to PPC, PPC to Intel, Intel to ARM)
And if you count the fact that OS X had to transition from Intel (from NextStep) to PPC (as OS X) and then back to Intel, I guess that effectively makes it five times for nearly seamless CPU architectural changes!
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think that really counts, as there was no need for any sort of cross-compatibility since it was being billed as a new OS/platform. NeXTSTEP was already cross-platform, supporting 68K, x86, SPARC, and HP PA-RISC, so adding a fifth platform was probably not too difficult, and they could break anything they wanted in the process.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think that really counts, as there was no need for any sort of cross-compatibility since it was being billed as a new OS/platform. NeXTSTEP was already cross-platform, supporting 68K, x86, SPARC, and HP PA-RISC, so adding a fifth platform was probably not too difficult, and they could break anything they wanted in the process.
Yes, NextSTEP is designed to be processor-agnostic, which certainly helped; but I still think it "counts", due to all the other stuff around it that had to be changed/modified.
And there was a bang-up MacOS Classic "virtual machine".
Re: (Score:2)
Unlike Microsoft, with Intel, MIPs, DEC Alpha, and now most recently their very tepid foray into ARM.
That was a very dumb thing to say, because Microsoft never stopped supporting the PC throughout all of those ventures. If you are going to draw that comparison, you're going to have to be aware that in it, Microsoft positively stomps Apple into a mudhole.
Re: (Score:2)
Unlike Microsoft, with Intel, MIPs, DEC Alpha, and now most recently their very tepid foray into ARM.
Yup, you're right, only Evil Apple would consider alternate CPU architectures.
Name anything besides Intel that MS has devoted more than a year or two into, as a side-project? Yes, Windows 10 ARM almost counts at this point; but as you said, their efforts seem "tepid", at best. It could be different; but so far, not so much.
Certainly no one else has jumped onto a non-x86/x64 Platform with an "all-in", sink-or-swim approach...
And so far, the results speak for themselves, especially considering this is just the beginning of their non-mobile ARM offerings!
Re: (Score:2)
Name anything besides Intel that MS has devoted more than a year or two into, as a side-project? Yes, Windows 10 ARM almost counts at this point; but as you said, their efforts seem "tepid", at best. It could be different; but so far, not so much.
Certainly no one else has jumped onto a non-x86/x64 Platform with an "all-in", sink-or-swim approach...
And so far, the results speak for themselves, especially considering this is just the beginning of their non-mobile ARM offerings!
Point taken, the analogy is loose, but Apple still isn't the only manufacturer to branch out from their original architecture. People ran Windows on Alpha for quite a long time, but of course the difference being that it was by choice.
Agreed though that Apple's move away from Intel to a chipset that wipes the floor with it from both a price/watt and price/performance standpoint is stunning. And doing it as seamlessly as one could hope for.
Re: (Score:2)
What do you want more politics stories, or some story on how some unknown company does such and such (in no way related to science and technology)
I know Apple is the New Microsoft for Slashdot, where it cannot do any right, and any decision it takes is suspect. However Apple has long release schedules, compared to say a Dell, which would slap on a new chip when it gets it hands on it, (often at a determent towards good engineering). So news like this means for people who actually like Apple Computers, th
Re: (Score:2)
I know Apple is the New Microsoft for Slashdot, where it cannot do any right, and any decision it takes is suspect.
I think that's still Microsoft... and Google... and really any company at all.
Re: (Score:2)
Every second article or so is about Apple. Can we please get less of that cr*p?
/. favorite hobby is hating on Apple. Get rid of those and what will people do? There aren't enough Elon Musk stories to completely fill the gap.
Re: (Score:2)
did I forget anything?
Apple never invents anything. After all, there entire OS was stolen from Xerox. (rollseyes).
Re: (Score:2)
Their, not There, sorry!
Slashdot sure needs an "Edit Post" mode!
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot sure needs an "Edit Post" mode!
No, you need a "preview post" mode.
The functionality is right there. Use it, or don't, but don't cry.
If you're using mobile, joke's on you. That interface is shit, when it even fucking works. Incompetence, thy name is BizX.
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot sure needs an "Edit Post" mode!
No, you need a "preview post" mode.
The functionality is right there. Use it, or don't, but don't cry.
If you're using mobile, joke's on you. That interface is shit, when it even fucking works. Incompetence, thy name is BizX.
I agree I should have Previewed more carefully.
But you are right about the Mobile /. site. It sucks beyond all reason. And about that, we certainly agree!
Re: (Score:2)
Apple never invents anything. After all, there entire OS was stolen from Xerox. (rollseyes).
The best story was Bill Atkinson stealing "overlapping windows" from Xerox. He was among the Apple employees who paid handsomely for being allowed to look at what Xerox had, and went home and copied their windowing system. Including overlapping windows, which apparently was difficult. It turned out Xerox didn't have overlapping windows. They only existed in his imagination (and then on Lisa / Macintosh).
Re: (Score:2)
Apple never invents anything. After all, there entire OS was stolen from Xerox. (rollseyes).
The best story was Bill Atkinson stealing "overlapping windows" from Xerox. He was among the Apple employees who paid handsomely for being allowed to look at what Xerox had, and went home and copied their windowing system. Including overlapping windows, which apparently was difficult. It turned out Xerox didn't have overlapping windows. They only existed in his imagination (and then on Lisa / Macintosh).
That was one of many improvements that Bill Atkinson and a few others at Apple made to the Xerox OS.
And of course "stolen" is a complete lie. Apple paid Xerox for that technology. You can tell that because of the conspicuous absence of legal action on the part of Xerox.
Re: Is this Apple-dot ? (Score:2)
Stole Windows NT from OS/2.
The original MS Windows 1.0 was a rushed copy of the Mac's interface of the time grafted on top of DOS.
Re: (Score:2)
Not for long.
https://9to5mac.com/2021/04/09... [9to5mac.com]
Honestly if the Linux team cracks this and is able to fully unlock the M1's power, that will be a pretty huge jump in power for a lot of uses.