Tile Bashes Apple's New AirTag as Unfair Competition (techcrunch.com) 87
Now that Apple's lost item finder AirTag has officially been introduced, competitor Tile is going on record ahead of its testimony in front of Congress tomorrow about how it perceives Apple's latest product. In a statement, Tile CEO CJ Prober said today: "Our mission is to solve the everyday pain point of finding lost and misplaced things and we are flattered to see Apple, one of the most valuable companies in the world, enter and validate the category Tile pioneered. The reason so many people turn to Tile to locate their lost or misplaced items is because of the differentiated value we offer our consumers. In addition to providing an industry leading set of features via our app that works with iOS and Android devices, our service is seamlessly integrated with all major voice assistants, including Alexa and Google. And with form factors for every use case and many different styles at affordable prices, there is a Tile for everyone.
Tile has also successfully partnered with top brands like HP, Intel, Skullcandy and fitbit to enable our finding technology in mass market consumer categories like laptops, earbuds and wearables. With over 30 partners, we look forward to extending the benefits of Tile to millions of customers and enabling an experience that helps you keep track of all your important belongings. We welcome competition, as long as it is fair competition. Unfortunately, given Apple's well-documented history of using its platform advantage to unfairly limit competition for its products, we're skeptical. And given our prior history with Apple, we think it is entirely appropriate for Congress to take a closer look at Apple's business practices specific to its entry into this category. We welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues further in front of Congress tomorrow.
Tile has also successfully partnered with top brands like HP, Intel, Skullcandy and fitbit to enable our finding technology in mass market consumer categories like laptops, earbuds and wearables. With over 30 partners, we look forward to extending the benefits of Tile to millions of customers and enabling an experience that helps you keep track of all your important belongings. We welcome competition, as long as it is fair competition. Unfortunately, given Apple's well-documented history of using its platform advantage to unfairly limit competition for its products, we're skeptical. And given our prior history with Apple, we think it is entirely appropriate for Congress to take a closer look at Apple's business practices specific to its entry into this category. We welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues further in front of Congress tomorrow.
Tile is use scared their product is inferior (Score:2)
Re:Tile is just scared their product is inferior (Score:1)
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Subject to apples approval process for their app store, which as people have found out, can reject for the most petty of things (or usually things the reviewers don't understand).
There's a big fat conflict of interest here. Plain and simple. It should be broken up somehow.
Re:Tile is use scared their product is inferior (Score:5, Informative)
Subject to apples approval process for their app store, which as people have found out, can reject for the most petty of things (or usually things the reviewers don't understand).
There's a big fat conflict of interest here. Plain and simple. It should be broken up somehow.
Apple has a record of copying the best apps in the App Store and then use their control of the App Store to eventually drive the 3rd party apps out of business. They take something someone else created and instead of doing something cool like making an official API hook for developers to use, they decide that only they are allowed to access that particular data or functionality under the guise of security. Flashlight, MMS messaging, Screen Time, etc. They act like they're protecting your data when in reality they're just hoarding it all for themselves.
There's a term for this, its called "getting Sherlocked" which was coined after Apple copied a bunch of functionality from a 3rd party tool called Watson then drove them out of business
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Apple have opened up the FindMy platform to third parties. What more should they have to do?
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They're all shit (Score:5, Informative)
I dont think I've run into a single one that even remotely gets the battery life it claims.
Re:They're all shit (Score:5, Funny)
Then you should rejoice that Apple finally built a product with a user-replaceable battery.
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On top of that, it uses a plain regular CR2032 that you can find anywhere.
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On top of that, it uses a plain regular CR2032 that you can find anywhere.
Wouldn't that make it rather thick and hefty? For things like this, that actually matters.... unlike shaving a couple of mms off the depth of a desktop.
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If they wanted a user-replacable battery, they had to go with something that lasted more than a few months and also something that people can find anywhere. The CR2032 fits the bill perfectly. It's also the same battery used in the Apple TV remotes (apart from the new one announced today, which has a built-in lithium-ion battery rechargeable via a Lightning port but not via Qi wireless... wtf Apple?)
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If they wanted a user-replacable battery, they had to go with something that lasted more than a few months and also something that people can find anywhere. The CR2032 fits the bill perfectly. It's also the same battery used in the Apple TV remotes (apart from the new one announced today, which has a built-in lithium-ion battery rechargeable via a Lightning port but not via Qi wireless... wtf Apple?)
The old AppleTV remote - launched in 2015 - was also rechargeable via a Lightning port.
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What you call "old Apple TV remote", I never had nor used one. I'm still using a 3rd-generation Apple TV with its nice, thin aluminium remote. I was waiting for an upgrade to the hardware along with a new remote and finally Apple released something worth buying.
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Would prefer a rechargeable AAA. Those coin cells aren't great for the environment.
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Think for a second. Put a CR2032 coin cell next to an AAA battery. Think how huge those tracking tiles/tags would be, not to mention much heavier due to the battery alone.
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That's the standard Apple trade off. A bit thinner vs. not an environmental disaster.
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For some items it wouldn't matter. Adding a AAA-sized keychain to my keys won't cause me major distress, especially if it's also a flashlight. But it would be a problem for my wallet, which is already bigger than it strictly needs to be.
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This is moderated 'Funny', but it's not a joke. This is actually true. I actually had to go check, but I was pleasantly surprised.
Try the AirPods (Score:2)
These things can work even with truly awful battery life, if charging them is somehow part of someone's routine.
AirPods essentially have a Tile-like finding feature (I do not know exactly how similar but they can appear on Find.app). Since people charge them routinely, it works pretty well.
(I have also seen videos where someone uses them as spy gear by clandestinely slipping into the pocket of their paramour just before they go out for a night on the town).
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I dont think I've run into a single one that even remotely gets the battery life it claims.
I use Tile pretty extensively and the battery life is pretty much as claimed. The tile slim claimed 3 years of battery, I'm 2 years in and it's still going strong.
I'll consider switching to the Apple version if they add Alexa integration. Being able to find my keys and wallet by asking Alexa saves me a lot of time given how frequently I misplace things.
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I dropped my car keys outside a while back without realising it and never did find them. The cost, concern and inconvenience of that would justify a product like this, even if it is unlikely to happen. I've been holding off getting a tile, waiting for AirTags to be launched.
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Tiles suck though (Score:5, Informative)
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I agree that it would be nice if they didn't broadcast (in fact, when I learned how they worked was the day I stopped using the tile I got as a gift and foolishly used without researching).
However, as I understand it, there isn't currently a better way to do it. My understanding (and I have zero bluetooth dev experience, so this is all 2nd hand...thus I welcome additional input) is that, to give maximum battery life, they use the bluetooth low energy spec. A consequence of the way this works is that the dev
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And I guess I should clarify...I certainly understand that the app itself could choose not to send to the cloud a list of what devices it sees. Clearly that would not violate the bluetooth spec (though it would negate part of Tiles selling point of other people being able to locate your lost device). But still, the device itself is visible to others around you listening to the BLE frequencies. So even if Tile let you turn off your app from sending to the cloud, it wouldn't stop other users with that setting
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If the AirTag went with the "shut up and listen until it hears something it recognizes" approach you would lose "Lost Mode" - one of its key differentiating features. Flag an AirTag as lost and you'll get a ping any time any iDevice in the world (on a sufficiently recent version of iOS) comes near it.
Apple uses rotating identifiers and other protocol wizardry to prevent someone identifying you from the broadcast of your device. All that a third party can see is "there's a Bluetooth LE device nearby". I c
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I'd love for a device that broadcasts when I press the button, and otherwise just shuts up and listens until is hears something it recognizes.
That would 1) require more power because it'd need to be constantly listening for the signal and 2) would only work when nearby the tile. The thing that makes Tile really useful, but is one of the reasons I don't use it, is the network. The fact that all the people in the network are constantly tracking all the devices at all times. So if you left your Tile tagged thing somewhere outside of your immediate range, as long as someone in the Tile network is within range of it, you can locate it.
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1) require more power because it'd need to be constantly listening for the signal
Why would it require MORE power? It already has to listen. I can use my phone to activate the tag, so it's clearly listening for my phone. So just listen without also broadcasting. There's no reason in physics why that would require more energy. That would be purely mandated by the BLE spec.
2) would only work when nearby the tile.
And this is a problem? Maybe for some, but not for me. In 30 years, other than in my house, I've misplaced my keys precisely zero times (I did leave them at someone's house a couple times, but each time knew precisely wh
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The batteries on my keychain tiles lasted over a year on the daily use ones. The one in my wallet is probably a year and a half old and still going fine.
The problem with tile isn't the *device* battery life, but the tile *app*.
When I let it run in the background, it roughly halves my iPhone battery life. I assume that this is from the constant GPS use.
I'll gradually replace them with apple's, I expect--but I see no reason to throw them out before that, at least not for now.
Besides, we've already learned
new kid brought a ball (Score:1)
waahh! mom!! HELP!!
iMessages? (Score:2)
Apple is allowing 3rd party tracker devices. Their biggest monopoly leverage is iMessages. They need to allow 3rd party iMessages.
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Is that really a problem? I never use it. Are there many iPhone users who prefer it over WhatsApp or Signal?
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Moving seamlessly between iPad/iPhone/watch/homepod/laptop with iMessage -- and forwarding of text messages -- is absolutely a critical feature for me. Before I bought the most recent update to the Macbook Pro line (refused to use butterfly keys), I was seriously considering switching back to PC full time. iMessage was the biggest killer app for me.
I use Signal with a few people, but I don't know anyone who uses WhatsApp.
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Moving seamlessly between iPad/iPhone/watch/homepod/laptop with iMessage -- and forwarding of text messages -- is absolutely a critical feature for me.
MightyText app solves that problem on Android.
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Using Signal on Android
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Why? Does facebook allow iMessage to send message to Facebook messanger? If not why are they asking other way around? Most companies had created their messaging systems closed and iMessage is not unique in this field. If they open up iMessage, it will become another spam channel.
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Why? Does facebook allow iMessage to send message to Facebook messanger? If not why are they asking other way around? Most companies had created their messaging systems closed and iMessage is not unique in this field. If they open up iMessage, it will become another spam channel.
Actually, iOS is slightly unique in this regard, because iMessage has exclusive access to SMS, which means if somebody texts you over SMS, it will appear exclusively in iMessage, and not in any other app, unlike most other platforms. So there's no way to fully avoid using iMessage on iOS, whereas on other platforms, you could use other apps to send and receive SMS messages. That's arguably an unfair competitive advantage, so the argument that Apple should be required to open up iMessage more isn't entirel
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I'm confused here, I didn't think iMessage had anything to do with sms/mms beond the pissebility ypto sand an iMessage as sms/mms if iMessage was unavoidable fore some reason or the other. The hole thing is confused a bit since iMessege and sms/mms ( different protocols) are consolidated in the same app, so it is sometimes hard to sirt out if people are refering to an iMessage ( denited by the blue bouble) or just calling any message received in the messages app an I message
Sorry, I should have been more precise. The Messages app from Apple is the only app that can send SMS. I was conflating the app name with its main protocol's name. The point is that Apple has exclusive control over SMS on iOS, which makes their messaging solution more robust than third-party messaging can be, and it also means that users can't ever truly get away from Apple's messaging solution (unless you don't care about getting text messages for two-factor, etc.), so users might as well also use the i
Re: iMessages? (Score:1)
Perhaps there shouldn't be any that aren't cross-platform.
If you are a sucess then you are a target. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is kinda Apples normal operation. Wait for a technology to start to get successful, jump on the trend and release a much more polished product.
For a smallish company you have to be really good in order to get out of trouble. If I were them, I would probably work with say Android phone makers and try to get your product bundled with Android Phones, or with say auto makers or door handle makers to bundle them with keys and fobs. The trick for them to beat Apple, they have to be more convent and in peoples hands so they don't choose to pick something else.
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Apple has an unfair advantage here. Their tracking system is not subject to the normal rules that prevent other apps from running in the background or accessing the Bluetooth system at a low level. They can make their tags work better than anyone else's because they contain iOS.
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Yes Apple does have a n unfair advantage... Life isn't fair.
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Apples product seems to be less crowdsourced. It may also have other security protections. We will see exactly how it works. But I donâ(TM)t see it as direct complet
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The problem is that Tile's network consists exclusively of people who have purchased it's product. Which is a very small number to actual iPhone users. I didn't RTFA, but I presume Apple is going to let their AirTag automatically access the network of all 1 billion iPhone users.
I was an early recipient of a Tile and there were like a seven 'active' users in my neighborhood. If I did need to locate a tile odds were it was not in range of a participating Tile user's phone. So basically the worth of the ti
Unfair? (Score:5, Insightful)
We welcome competition, as long as it is fair competition. Unfortunately, given Apple's well-documented history of using its platform advantage to unfairly limit competition for its products, we're skeptical.
I can only think of two ways this is unfair competition: Apple is blocking or hindering Tile's ability to function on the Apple platform, or Apple is giving it away for free. They are doing neither, so I don't see how this is unfair competition. Methinks they just don't want any real competition at all.
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> They are doing neither
Are they?
There is a linked story from "competitor Tile"
https://apple.slashdot.org/sto... [slashdot.org]
which links to
https://www.macrumors.com/2020... [macrumors.com]
Re:Unfair? (Score:4, Interesting)
We welcome competition, as long as it is fair competition. Unfortunately, given Apple's well-documented history of using its platform advantage to unfairly limit competition for its products, we're skeptical.
I can only think of two ways this is unfair competition: Apple is blocking or hindering Tile's ability to function on the Apple platform, or Apple is giving it away for free.
Apple introduced new location services behavior recently that negatively impacts Tile, by periodically reminding the user that the app is using location services in the background, and forcing the user to confirm that it should be allowed to continue doing so, or else the app basically stops being usable.
So repeatedly giving users an easy way to accidentally brick your competitor's app isn't blocking or hindering their ability to function? :-/ Not sure what universe that makes sense in.
Re:Unfair? (Score:5, Informative)
A third way would be if Apple had access to internal APIs or system calls that 3rd party developers wouldn't have access to.
However, from what I'm aware of that isn't the case here -- Tile has access to the same Bluetooth stack Apple does, and Apple even provides third-party hooks into "Find My" so that a company like Tile can hook into it.
Yaz
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It's the "Find My" hooks that are the issue. Normal Bluetooth doesn't work as well because apps are not allowed to run in the background on iOS, it kills them off after a few seconds.
While it is possible to use Apple's Find My system, the terms are probably awful. All the data flows through Apple for a start, and it doesn't work with Android so it's not great for cross platform stuff.
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You know as little about iOS as you do everything else. I work on an app that uses BLE specifically to get processing time in the background.
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Does Apple warn users constantly that the Apple app is using GPS and handling user data like it does for 3rd parties?
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First they came for the headphones (Score:2)
And I said nothing, because I did not make headphones.
Actually, Airpods haven't meaningfully dented 3rd party headphones sales. And bluetooth works better on an iPhone than most devices I've used.
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>Actually, Airpods haven't meaningfully dented 3rd party headphones sales.
Apples headphone jack, or lack thereof, has actively pushed me back to Android.
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There's the Asus rog 5, which also comes with a big battery and a card slot.
But they seem to be made of unobtainium and the price tweaks my gears a bit, even though I can afford it.
My V35 is getting a bit beaten up, but I can wait.
Nothing unfair here (Score:1)
Tiles Mostly Useless (Score:2)
Like other posters, We found tiles mostly useless.
Their cheaper ones either would never respond or be too quiet.
We tried 2 pros. They work a bit better, but the battery cover fell off on one.
The other which was in my sons wallet which he lost would pop up around our city, but never with enough detail to locate it.
Waste of $100
Others thought the HomePod would be ufair to... (Score:2)
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Tile does have one advantage (Score:3)
Apple has already made it pretty clear that AirTags will be unsuitable as anti-theft tracking devices. They are so concerned about people accusing Apple of enabling stalking that the AirTag has essentially been neutered for that purpose. If a thief were to steal an item with a hidden AirTag, it will not only alert the thief of its presence, it will even provide a means for the thief to deactivate it (instead of just destroying it, of course).
Tile can market their devices as "anti-theft", and if they jump through the hoops to gain access to the "Find My" network, then they'll have a device nearly as effective as the AirTag, but far more useful for recovering stolen items.
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The thing is that theft-tracking and stalking are one and the same thing, except intent. There's no technological solution to that.
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To expensive... (Score:2)
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Finding car keys immediately is probably worth $30. Ever tried to get replacements for modern keys, some brands are terribly expensive.
Look for "smart tag" or "wireless mini locator" on AliExpress if you want to try out one of the cheap clones. I found some that fit pet collars for $5 (marketed as "anti-lost"). So far I haven't found any cheap brands that have good software, waiting for someone on HaD to post a RE and open source tools so I don't have to do the work myself.
Tile patents (Score:2)
If there is no patents in Tile's hands then I guess Apple can rip off their idea. Maybe even make it better, or at least better for those who own an iOS device.