Apple Planning Switch To Randomized Serial Numbers Starting This Year (macrumors.com) 121
An anonymous reader quotes a report from MacRumors: Apple will soon be making a significant change to its serial number format for future products that will see some key information stripped out. In an internal AppleCare email this week, obtained by MacRumors, Apple said the new serial number format will consist of a randomized alphanumeric string of 8-14 characters that will no longer include manufacturing information or a configuration code. Apple said the serial number format transition is scheduled for "early 2021," and confirmed that IMEI numbers will not be affected by this change.
Any currently shipping Apple products will continue to use the current serial number format, while future products will use the new format, according to Apple. The new serial numbers will initially be 10 characters, the company indicated. Apple's current serial number format has long allowed both customers and service providers to determine the date and location that a product was manufactured, with the first three characters representing the manufacturing location and the following two indicating the year and week of manufacture. The last four characters currently serve as a "configuration code," revealing a device's model, color, and storage capacity. Apple initially planned to transition to the new serial number format in late 2020, but delayed. Apple hasn't explained the reasons for the change, but the new format will effectively make it impossible to view details about when and where a device is manufactured.
Any currently shipping Apple products will continue to use the current serial number format, while future products will use the new format, according to Apple. The new serial numbers will initially be 10 characters, the company indicated. Apple's current serial number format has long allowed both customers and service providers to determine the date and location that a product was manufactured, with the first three characters representing the manufacturing location and the following two indicating the year and week of manufacture. The last four characters currently serve as a "configuration code," revealing a device's model, color, and storage capacity. Apple initially planned to transition to the new serial number format in late 2020, but delayed. Apple hasn't explained the reasons for the change, but the new format will effectively make it impossible to view details about when and where a device is manufactured.
Random Serial (Score:5, Insightful)
How can one have random sequential numbers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42?
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Random Serial (Score:5, Informative)
But "serial" very strongly implies sequential numbers "Serial number" is shorthand for "serial identification number". So what Apple is really doing is having "randomized identification numbers that are no longer serial". Maybe it sounds a bit pedantic, but it's the ancient fight between trying to keep words to have consistent meanings versus making words mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean even if the listener is confused.
Re: Random Serial (Score:2)
Well, the set of sequential numbers is actually in that set of random ones. ... Or they think different.... LY!
Perhaps they just plan on being very lucky.
Re: (Score:1)
Implies nothing. Serial means "in series."
Re: (Score:3)
You might want to sit down for this, but some companies even put letters in their serial numbers! It's as if the meaning has evolved
Re: (Score:2)
"But "serial" very strongly implies sequential numbers..."
No it doesn't. It implies "sequential" not at all.
Re: (Score:1)
it's the ancient fight between trying to keep words to have consistent meanings versus making words mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean even if the listener is confused.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master -- that's all.'
Re: (Score:2)
"it's the ancient fight between trying to keep words to have consistent meanings versus making words mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean even if the listener is confused."
Yes, and you are on the wrong side of this.
Serial means there is a well defined and unique order to the numbers.
Random means the next value cannot be predicted just by knowing the prior values.
So if you know the generating function, you can reproducibly produce the values in order. If you do not have the generator, you cannot. For
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Random Serial (Score:4, Interesting)
How can one have random sequential numbers?
With a random permutation.
A CTR construct will do that: For some key k, AESk(0), AESk(1), AESk(2)... AESk(2 to the power 128-1) are all guaranteed to be different and the sequence looks random and the results are a permutation of all the numbers 0 to 2 to the power 128-1.
There are other cryptographic permutation algorithms that will work on non power-of-2 spaces. Look up the "sometimes recurse shuffle" by Phil Rogaway.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. That used to be there.
Even Rogaway's web site points there.
Anyway, it's neat way of permuting, mainly aimed at format preserving encryption (FPE).
Maybe email him.
Re: (Score:2)
It's back - the eprint website was down. It isn't down any more.
Re: (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
A universally unique identifier (UUID) is a 128-bit number used to identify information in computer systems. The term globally unique identifier (GUID) is also used, typically in software created by Microsoft.[1]
When generated according to the standard methods, UUIDs are, for practical purposes, unique. Their uniqueness does not depend on a central registration authority or coordination between the parties generating them, unlike most other numbering schemes. While the proba
Re: (Score:2)
However, product "serial" numbers often have to be typed manually or even read over the phone, and UUIDs are too long for that.
Re: Random Serial (Score:2)
128 bits =16 bytes
Not that difficult
Re: (Score:2)
I acknowledge your joke, but for anyone looking for an actual method, you can use the Skipjack cipher or any alternate type of format-preserving encryption to do this. It's also easy enough to permute the sequence ahead of time using whatever method you want or use a seeded PRNG to do a Fisher-Yates shuffle.
The result is a sequenced list of random numbers; joke made real.
Re: (Score:2)
It's almost like you're trying to enforce domain-specific language on wording meant for the general public where the word has a different meaning.
But you could also argue that the serialization comes in applying it to products sequentially as the products are made rather than as a property of the numbers themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
Kinda trivial. You create a spreadsheet of a billion random unique numbers, and then serially hand them out. The position in the list is still the serial number, but the exposed serial number is encoded in an uncrackable way.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Random Serial (Score:2)
Lol, seriously?
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, reversing the order, it is the difference between 1,2,3,4,... and 1,3,5,7,... or 1,1,2,3,... It still excludes random.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Random Serial (Score:2)
Ok, then why does the word synonym exist?
It's so you can't track down their child labor (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
or other things the company wants to obscure.
On the surface this certainly appears like that, but then again how easy is it for them to "obscure" their manufacturing details and sources regardless of if you had serial number data?
We act as if the word "Foxconn" refers to some highly classified military operation running out of Area 51.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, when really they're just using secret forced labour with people from 're-education' camps that the government sterilise which is like long-term genocide. Even when Uyghur's aren't in camps they're being watched closer than prisoners under house arrest with many aspects of their lives being spied upon to make sure they're not potentially critical of the government in any way. Pretty much 1984.
Re:It's so you can't track down their child labor (Score:5, Informative)
And to make it harder to know if your product is affected by a recall, or if you could join one of the endless series of class action lawsuits against them over defect.
Re:It's so you can't track down their child labor (Score:4, Interesting)
And to make it harder to know if your product is affected by a recall, or if you could join one of the endless series of class action lawsuits against them over defect.
I suspect the class action thing is the main reason. If you can just glance at a sticker to see if your device falls within a range then you'll get all sorts of people casually signing up; if you need to go online and look at a database then 70-80% (note: made up numbers) will "mañana" it over the event horizon.
What might make things difficult for Apple is if someone does make an issue about how hard it is to check for recalls. Ironically enough, they might get a class action if they can't show any rational reason for the change.
Re: (Score:2)
Difficult to do a class action over something other manufacturers have done pretty much forever.
Re: (Score:2)
> Ironically enough, they might get a class action if they can't show any rational reason for the change. Difficult to do a class action over something other manufacturers have done pretty much forever.
Most likely it will just make the damages greater. Not only did Apple use inferior hinges known to fail after a year so the laptops could be 0.2 mm thinner (I'm making this up but you get the idea), but the poor starving lawyers had to spend more money to find enough people to sign onto the suit.
Re: (Score:3)
Because when dell does it nobody gives a rats ass but when Apple does it all the conspiracy nuts come out of the woodwork.
Re:It's so you can't track down their child labor (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
And to make it harder to know if your product is affected by a recall, or if you could join one of the endless series of class action lawsuits against them over defect.
Apple has never issued recalls based on serial number ranges.
Try again, hater.
Re: (Score:3)
There used to be a website in the early 2000s (Score:2)
To annoy third party repair shops? (Score:5, Interesting)
Before, one could effectively and accurately get the year of production of any mac devic fro mits serial number. Very useful if you have to order a third party replacement part.
With the new scheme, only Apple will be able to do it. As mac devices pretty much all look the same apart from minuscule details, third party shops will be forced to ask customers to try to remember exactly in which month they bought said device, or look if they kept the receipt somewhere.
Re: (Score:3)
Apple already provides at least one site that lets you do that lookup [apple.com], and serial numbers are still physically printed on the outside of each device somewhere. If a repair shop has a device in hand, they’ll just look it up. They’re already doing so anyway if they’re in doubt, either against an internal tool they built back before Apple made one available a decade or more ago, or else against Apple’s lookup system.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They can do whatever they want, whenever they want.
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't tell you very much.
Re: (Score:1)
third party shops will be forced to ask customers to try to remember exactly in which month they bought said device, or look if they kept the receipt somewhere.
No they wouldn't. They could use the serial number to look it up.
Guessable (Score:1)
They probably didn't want them to be guessable, so people making API calls or phone calls (heh) trying to ask about devices they don't own won't get anywhere.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Also look at the "german tank" math problem, having serial numbers reveals information about your production line which Apple might not want.
wiki link [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
They probably didn't want them to be guessable, so people making API calls or phone calls (heh) trying to ask about devices they don't own won't get anywhere.
I suppose there are also situations where some scamming repair shop claims to make repairs under warranty, submits serial numbers that they guessed, and gets paid by Apple. This would make it very, very hard to guess serial numbers of real phones.
Serial Number Lookup Tools (Score:3)
Does this mean Serial# lookup tools will stop working with the new scheme?
https://everymac.com/ultimate-... [everymac.com]
https://checkcoverage.apple.co... [apple.com]
Etc...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Almost certainly yes. Only Apple will have access to their database of serial numbers; they may grant access to that to a select group of authorized third-party companies they work with, but they're not going to grant access to any random third party.
Re: (Score:2)
Almost certainly yes. Only Apple will have access to their database of serial numbers; they may grant access to that to a select group of authorized third-party companies they work with, but they're not going to grant access to any random third party.
The only thing the current Check Serial Number page does is tell you whether free phone support has expired and whether the warranty has expired.
There is absolutely no reason why Apple would change that. It saves them as metric buttload of support calls.
Re: (Score:2)
The only thing the current Check Serial Number page does is tell you whether free phone support has expired and whether the warranty has expired.
There is absolutely no reason why Apple would change that. It saves them as metric buttload of support calls.
But do the third party sites currently get this information directly from Apple or do they parse the current serial number structure to determine date of manufacture and then use that date to determine if the warranty has expired?
If they are going directly to Apple to get this information then things probably won't change. If they are parsing the current serial number for that information then their lookup site will no longer work once the new serial number structure is implemented.
Re: (Score:2)
If they are going directly to Apple to get this information then things probably won't change. If they are parsing the current serial number for that information then their lookup site will no longer work once the new serial number structure is implemented.
If they are parsing the serial number, then there was never any guarantee that Apple wouldn't change its scheme. So you would need to parse according to the old scheme, and then according to the new scheme. Much easier to let Apple examine the serial number.
Re: (Score:2)
The only thing the current Check Serial Number page does is tell you whether free phone support has expired and whether the warranty has expired.
There is absolutely no reason why Apple would change that. It saves them as metric buttload of support calls.
But do the third party sites currently get this information directly from Apple or do they parse the current serial number structure to determine date of manufacture and then use that date to determine if the warranty has expired?
If they are going directly to Apple to get this information then things probably won't change. If they are parsing the current serial number for that information then their lookup site will no longer work once the new serial number structure is implemented.
I ASSUME they probably just looked at the s/n before, and if the date info suggested the unit was close to being out of warranty, they likely checked with Apple to see if the unit was actually still in Warranty. That's the way it worked for the (non-Apple) products I serviced during my time as an electronic bench tech (we repaired mostly stereo and musical equipment; but warranty repair policies are fairly similar overall).
By the way, Apple has never been one of those "Sorry! One day out of warranty; sucks
greed (Score:3, Informative)
Like many things Apple does, this appears to be motivated solely by greed.
They are trying to entirely shutdown the independent repair shops - you know, the ones that can replace a screen during your lunch hour, as opposed to Apples however long (at however much). If you can't figure out what version something is, how will you get the right part? Of course they could obviate this by making a serial number lookup publicly available. Anybody want to take bets on that being done?
Apple have played similar tricks with cables for decades, but have finally come into sanity with USB-C, though doubtless they'll think of something. Other companies did the same - remember when every charger was custom?
I don't understand why they need to be so greedy - . Apple products are staggeringly profitable, why oppress the follow on market? How much money do you make repairing things anyway?
Perhaps the thrust is to make it prohibitively expensive to repair apple gear. "Sorry madam, the repair for this will be 5,000 dollars. But we can give you a discount on a new shiny one!". Uh huh. Yes, that does sound pretty likely, doesn't it?
And here was me, seriously considering a MacBook Air.
Well, maybe not.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
How is what Apple does different from what Dell (and as far as i know, HP and probably others) has always done? The serial number of a Dell computer has no information at all. It is just a combination of characters and numbers. For the HP systems I have worked on, same there.
I believe Dell's and HP's are sequential. At least where I work we end up with large blocks of laptops that appear to be in series. More importantly, anybody can look up the date of manufacture and original system configuration using the serial numbers.
Maybe there really is no difference between that and what Apple's doing, though. If they were simply switching from a purely numeric SN to an alphanumeric SN it seems like it's for economy of space and less to type in or repeat over the phone.
Re: (Score:3)
Like many things Apple does, this appears to be motivated solely by greed.
They are trying to entirely shutdown the independent repair shops
Oh, horseshit!
Just HOW would that "entirely shutdown the independent repair shops"?
Seriously. How?
BTW, many, many manufacturers have randomized serial numbers. It is mostly to keep the competition from determining approximately how many are manufactured.
IOW, nothing to see here, move along...
Re: (Score:2)
Anybody want to take bets on that being done?
You probably mean "Anybody want to make a bet on that being done?". The implication being you believe it won't be and will be accepting bets that it will, expecting to win.
If that is the case I would like to make that bet because I enjoy betting on sure things.
When you're publicly traded (Score:2)
Maybe structuring our entire economy like that wasn't such a good idea, but it's too late to change it now.
Re: greed (Score:2)
Serial numbers are treasure troves of information (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Why would customers want that information to be secret?
Is Apple at war?
Re: (Score:2)
No but much of humanity may as well be. While I doubt that reasoning motivates Apple, being able to figure out the supply chain of a device could have intel value for oppressive (most of them!) societies.
Randomization could make tracing how an "enemy of the state" obtained their device much more difficult without Apple cooperation. Conventional serial numbers exist for general convenience. Randomized serials can add obscurity.
History repeats itself (Score:2)
Circumventing right to repair? (Score:3, Informative)
I assume this is because Apple sees that right to repair laws have a chance of passing. Being able to tell when one of their devices was manufactured was a good clue about what part you needed without having to open the device. They seem to be taking a similar route to what Red Hat did when Oracle started rebranding RHEL as Oracle Unbreakable Linux or whatever...following the letter of the open source law but not the spirit.
I don't get Apple sometimes. They are well aware that they have most consumers hooked into their ecosystem the second they buy their first iDevice. They have a virtual money printing press skimming off the top of app store purchases. They still have a rabid fan base. Yet they're absolutely vehement about forcing their customers to turn in their iPads at the end of their lease and just selling them new ones. Car analogy...Apple is BMW or Mercedes. The products are expensive to buy but just cheap enough for the upper-middle-class Joe to lease and turn in every 2 or 3 years. Should you choose to buy and hang onto one, there are just enough single-source super expensive parts to make late-stage repair extremely expensive. And on top of that, the cars are engineered in such a way that labor to fix even simple things is way more than the average GM/Ford/Chrysler prole-box.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I don't get Apple sometimes. They are well aware that they have most consumers hooked into their ecosystem the second they buy their first iDevice. They have a virtual money printing press skimming off the top of app store purchases. They still have a rabid fan base. Yet they're absolutely vehement about forcing their customers to turn in their iPads at the end of their lease and just selling them new ones.
It's a Darwinian filter: treat you customers like shit and very soon you have a customer base that, well, doesn't mind if you treat them like shit. Treat them well and you'll attract customers that won't stand for the stuff that Apple pulls in order to keep its margins sky-high.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Do you really think Apple won't give you that through a look up from a web site? You just cannot see it directly from the number anymore, just as in the case of Dell.
Re: (Score:2)
I assume this is because Apple sees that right to repair laws have a chance of passing.
You assume wrongly.
Many, many manufacturers have randomized serial numbers. It is not a nefarious, anti-consumer practice.
It is an anti-competition-espionage practice. Without randomization, all a competitor (or market analyst) has to do to get a pretty accurate idea of number of units manufactured is purchase a unit right at the end of the year, read the serial number, and then return the unit for refund. In fact, since most serialized goods have the s/n right on the outside of the package, they may not ev
Re: (Score:2)
> I assume this is because Apple sees that right to repair laws have a chance of passing.
For a person who obviously does not know anything on the serial number schemes other manufacturers use you assume a lot.
From a security perspective it‘s a good idea if the serial number does not give away any additional information on the device. It‘s a unique identifier, it should not be enumerable.
Re: (Score:2)
But if they're randomized... (Score:2)
...they're not really "serial", are they?
Huh? (Score:2)
Until then, "About this computer", gives plenty of data, and I've only looked up by serial number once or twice.
Re: (Score:3)
It won't make it impossible to view details about your device, unless Apple does not keep a database of serial numbers. I can't figure out exactly why they did this, but the concept that Apple is deliberately making their devices untraceable - even to Apple - isn't likely.
Until then, "About this computer", gives plenty of data, and I've only looked up by serial number once or twice.
It is the second phase of what they started a couple of years ago, when they stopped reporting Unit Sales Volumes.
Both changes are to thwart competitors and analysts from gaining valuable marketing information on how well certain models of their products (probably mostly in the ultra-competitive smartphone world) are doing.
Re: (Score:2)
It won't make it impossible to view details about your device, unless Apple does not keep a database of serial numbers. I can't figure out exactly why they did this, but the concept that Apple is deliberately making their devices untraceable - even to Apple - isn't likely.
Until then, "About this computer", gives plenty of data, and I've only looked up by serial number once or twice.
It is the second phase of what they started a couple of years ago, when they stopped reporting Unit Sales Volumes.
Both changes are to thwart competitors and analysts from gaining valuable marketing information on how well certain models of their products (probably mostly in the ultra-competitive smartphone world) are doing.
What a weird world we live in, when serial numbers have to be disconnected from the devices.
Re: (Score:2)
It won't make it impossible to view details about your device, unless Apple does not keep a database of serial numbers. I can't figure out exactly why they did this, but the concept that Apple is deliberately making their devices untraceable - even to Apple - isn't likely.
Until then, "About this computer", gives plenty of data, and I've only looked up by serial number once or twice.
It is the second phase of what they started a couple of years ago, when they stopped reporting Unit Sales Volumes.
Both changes are to thwart competitors and analysts from gaining valuable marketing information on how well certain models of their products (probably mostly in the ultra-competitive smartphone world) are doing.
What a weird world we live in, when serial numbers have to be disconnected from the devices.
As I have said, many companies have done this for decades. I just object to the knee-jerk reaction of so many Slashdotters (present company excepted) that, if it's Apple, it must be something greedy or otherwise nefarious.
Re: (Score:2)
It won't make it impossible to view details about your device, unless Apple does not keep a database of serial numbers.
Two things: First, it will make viewing details of your device impossible without the assistance of Apple. Second, it will give Apple the ability to push older devices off the back end of their database once they deem it necessary for you to come in and upgrade. And third*, cellular carriers will have to query Apple to find the capabilities of each device on their system to properly configure services. So Apple can drop capabilities off their database as they see fit.
*Our three weapons are fear, and surpri
Re: (Score:2)
It won't make it impossible to view details about your device, unless Apple does not keep a database of serial numbers.
Two things: First, it will make viewing details of your device impossible without the assistance of Apple.
Well - unless Apple eliminates "About this Mac" I can see Everything in and attached to my Mac. With sometimes excruciating granularity. year of manufacturer - with mid years on occasion, serial number and all attached devices
Are you a Mac user? Because "About this Mac" is pretty much Apple 101.
Re: (Score:2)
Ever try to figure out which generation of Intel CPU you have from About this Mac? And the year is not the year of manufacture - it's the year of introduction of that model. Sometimes they go 2-3 years without a refresh.
Re: (Score:2)
Ever try to figure out which generation of Intel CPU you have from About this Mac? And the year is not the year of manufacture - it's the year of introduction of that model. Sometimes they go 2-3 years without a refresh.
Wow - what a problem. Open up terminal, then type sysctl -n machdep.cpu.brand_string Then look it up, which tell me that it's 6 cores, 6 theads, base 3.00 GHz, turbo 4.10 GHz 9 MB Smart Cache, bus speed 8 GT/s dissapates 65 Watts, max memorty 128 GB, Me type DDR4-2666, 2 mem channels Mem bandwidth41.6 GB/s and on and on and on. So - what is your point anyhow, bacause I can's figure that out. Give me the Windows command that will show every single parameter oif my laptop's preocessor that will show up just
Re: (Score:2)
So much for saying that "About this Mac" has excruciating granularity and then replying with an obscure terminal command and an entirely unformatted lookup table. I think you proved my point.
Re: (Score:2)
About this Mac provides processor information with exact model information like so: https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]
You can then go ahead and lookup the model specification from number of sites... such as this one: https://everymac.com/ultimate-... [everymac.com]
Re: (Score:2)
System Information is a separate app from About This Mac. Just because there's a button to launch it from About This Mac doesn't mean it's part of it.
And looking up the model on everymac works best if you have a serial number in the encoded format. Trying to guess by year is stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
And also, that requires a web site like Everymac to exist. Apple does not provide this information.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you really know stuff or just wing it?
https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]
Re: (Score:2)
And where is the generation of Intel CPU listed on those pages? Nowhere.
Re: (Score:2)
As other users have mentioned, to make life even more difficult for third-party repair services, to make it more difficult to determine if your device qualifies for a class-action lawsuit, and possibly to obscure information about the number of units manufactured.
Where did anyone suggest that Apple was attempting to make these devices untraceable to Apple?
My guess: Prevent Unlock of stolen devices (Score:1)
This is most probably to prevent the unlocking of activation locked devices by changing their serial number by rewriting the chips. If you don't know which serial are valid, your are kinda boned.
That's why apple pulled the website to see if iPhones were Locked by serial number. Some people ended up receiving new in the box iPhone and their serial was tied to another device.
Louis Rossman (Score:2)
ppl are demanding products from clean places (Score:2)
Nek minit (Score:2)
They start making everything in China
Keep On Pushing (Score:2)
At this point, I'm rooting for App
Apple hasn't explained the reasons (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Go in your average web startup...not a Windows machine to be found. All the cool DevOps kids use Macs. It used to be because of the Unix underpinnings but you can get this through VMs or WSL now. It's just that Apple has become so ingrained in flashy startup culture that pulling out a ThinkPad in a VC pitch session would be like pooping on the conference table.
Re: (Score:2)
No one sane has bought an apple product in years for anythuing serious.
Go in your average web startup...not a Windows machine to be found. All the cool DevOps kids use Macs.
Didn't you just prove the GP correct :)
Re: (Score:2)
Which is exactly why the world can do without more "trendy startups" that never make a profit and waste money on Apple computers. And why an angel investor who is impressed by an apple on a laptop is an easy mark for such con artists- because he doesn't know enough about technology to tell a winner from a steaming pile of crap.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
No one sane has bought an apple product in years for anythuing serious.
Tell that to anyone in the Music Industry and other fine arts.
Re: (Score:2)
No one sane has bought an apple product in years for anythuing serious.
Tell that to anyone in the Music Industry and other fine arts.
To be fair, he did say "sane".
Re: (Score:2)
No one sane has bought an apple product in years for anythuing serious.
Tell that to anyone in the Music Industry and other fine arts.
To be fair, he did say "sane".
Oh, there are sane people. They just never make it past the entry-level of those fields.
Re: (Score:2)
A good example of two things that are never serious.