Microsoft Mocks Apple's Doomed Touch Bar in New Surface Ad (theverge.com) 165
Microsoft has a habit of reigniting the Mac vs. PC conflict for its Surface ads, and this time it's going after Apple's Touch Bar. In a new TV commercial, aired during Sunday night's NFL championship games, Microsoft pits Apple's MacBook Pro against the company's Surface Pro 7. It's a chance for Microsoft to mock Apple's Touch Bar in a TV commercial for the first time. From a report: "Mac gave me this little bar, but why can't they just give me a whole touchscreen?" asks a boy comparing the two laptops. That's something that some MacBook Pro users have been calling for, or just the removal of the Touch Bar altogether. Apple is now reportedly planning a redesign for the MacBook Pro later this year, with the Touch Bar rumored to be replaced by physical function keys. Elsewhere in the ad, Microsoft tries to position the Surface Pro 7 as a gaming device. "It is a much better gaming device," claims the ad, which is an unusual way to frame Microsoft's popular Surface device.
Remember history (Score:3)
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Well, Microsoft mocking another vendor sort of is asking for everyone to point out the excessive number of Microsoft goofs, silliness, and utter ineptitude. And touch screens are difficult to use and just not that useful. They only work on phones and tablets because they're small, are held in the hand, and don't have a more superior input method like a mouse or keyboard.
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Well, Microsoft mocking another vendor sort of is asking for everyone to point out the excessive number of Microsoft goofs, silliness, and utter ineptitude.
... I mean, they were already doing that? Should they withhold their fire and just take it up the ass?
And touch screens are difficult to use and just not that useful.
It depends. Every laptop I have has a touchscreen, except my macbook. One of my laptops is a "2-in-1"- touchscreen rocks on that. I can flip it over to "hat" configuration and have a 15 inch 4K TV with touchscreen controls while I lay back and someone else is playing Xbox or whatever.
On my other machines, that aren't 2-in-1's, I'd say it's a wasted feature 99.9999% of the time for me.
They only work on phones and tablets because they're small, are held in the hand, and don't have a more superior input method like a mouse or keyboard.
The superiority of an
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Why the competely useless harsh language? If you want to show off your superiority in that way I can tell you it doesn't work. Harsh language and name-calling like you did is often used by clueless youths or people with a moderate or lower intellect. I don't think you fall in either of those categories so just stop it.
Re: Remember history (Score:2)
Personally, I find it a great feature. I have used various keyboard+touch, and touch only devices and I find they suck.
The combo I find very intrusive to the workflow as your hand now has to leave the hover zone for something other than a mouse. The touch only just cuts down on screen real estate.
The bar is a good middle ground where it's faster to access the "Cancel" button on a dialog box than the mouse or shift tab. Obviously for the default OK, the enter key is faster. But when you have dialog boxes wit
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It's called marketing stupidity. It's par for the course for all companies. I mean if you believe Apple then the Macbook, normal, air and pro are so non-existent that people don't even know about them anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] (What's a computer?)
Re:Remember history (Score:5, Insightful)
Replacing mechanical keys with something purely electronic is a good idea.
Well, I won't say I'm a keyboard fetishist, but typing on tablets really sucks, especially if you are a touch typist. So electronic keyboards have along long way to go. People that type with a single finger might find a touchpad keyboard okay.
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Well I am a keyboard fetishist and I will tell you that a full mechanical keyboard is much more pleasurable to use than any touchscreen device.
The only thing touchscreens have going for them are being much easier to clean.
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Well I am a keyboard fetishist and I will tell you that a full mechanical keyboard is much more pleasurable to use than any touchscreen device. The only thing touchscreens have going for them are being much easier to clean.
I wonder if anyone touch types on a tablet. I know that tactile feedback is critical, at least to me. The strange thing is that you never know. My Apple wireless has decent feedback, and I've got an expensive Dell Workstation Laptop that is a beautiful machine, but the keyboard is terrible. My sister just got a new computer and gave me her Model M. Yippee!
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I have seen young people use these touchscreen keyboards fast and good. It's crazy. I can't, but can type good and fast on clicky keyboards like Model M. ;)
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I'm rarely using any editors at home that make massive usage of the F keys, but my work machine has some pretty heavy usage. When I was WFH (we VPN'd and "Screen Sharing" (VNC)'d our way in), I got quite used to the touchbar's lack of tactile response when hitting the F keys and it was trivial to set it so that Screen Sharing was displaying the F keys as opposed to the normal Touch Bar functionality by default.
I was initially upset with the fact that touching volume up/volume down didn't seem to do anythin
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I use the function keys mostly in computer games.
So they need to be "hardware" and not just "though icons".
It simply sucks big time if you accidentally activate a weapon on one/in an area, where you are not supposed to, just because you misjudged and hit "the wrong button".
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People that type with a single finger might find a touchpad keyboard okay.
Isn't that the audience?
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Replacing mechanical keys with something purely electronic is a good idea.
Only if your keys are really crappy. Like Apple's.
The advert's spot on though. A touch screen is awesome in a portable device. To see why, just imagine using your smartphone with a mouse...
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To see why, just imagine using your smartphone with a mouse...
Wow. It works for me, I don't know WHAT you are complaining about [techigem.com].
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No need to imagine, I had an HTC Hero with a trackball built in. It was great, you could scroll and use it as a mouse. Very handy for RDP.
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FIY, Apple also reverted back to their old keyboards, the crappy butterfly keyboards are gone. They're rumoured to also be bringing back the magsafe power cable, SD cart slot, etc.
Is this because Tim Apple finally woke up, someone finally stood up to him, or because Jony Ive "design-over-function" is finally gone?
Re:Remember history (Score:5, Interesting)
Too many warranty returns, that's what. Dust was sneaking into the keyboard and jamming the keys, resulting in warranty repairs. Apple tried 3 times to get it right, but the warranty repairs still kept coming in. Since the keyboard was integrated into the top case, it meant that warranty repairs couldn't be done by replacing keyboards, so Apple was basically being hoisted on their own petard for multiple design issues.
In other words, it reverted because it was costing Apple too much money.
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It was terrible. I hated it on my old (unfortunately it got stolen by a burglar) mac.
The way I type I often have a few fingers hovering over that area from my jhand. If I';d let one even briefly lower, it'd hit the touchbar and have unpredictable effects
This happened constantly,, and it happened to everyone I knew with one, until I found an ap that would disable it (Effectively leaving me with no F keys. Though it was hardly the only problem with that confounded machines keyboard
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Replacing tactile UI with touchscreens is a fucking shit idea. Its a shit idea in keyboards, it's a shit idea in cars (CarPlay is terrible, and I say that as an Apple fan - BMW and others figured this out years ago - you need a tactile device with detents/clicks/feedback in order to be able to use it without constantly looking at it). CarPlay is fucking dangerous, and I say that as a daily user of it.
Touchscreens are "good enough" as a compromise in scenarios where it isn't possible for packaging reason
Re: Remember history (Score:2)
I would think this could be simulated by really cool haptic design.
No thank you (Score:2)
One of the things I like about Apple is they have kept the delimitation between touch devices and traditional computer devices pretty distinct.
If I have a laptop, I really don't need the screen to support touch, the mouse works well enough for me.
Over time maybe as the touch/mouse fusion improves on the iPad enough I might find it useful, but so far I rather like laptops the way they are.
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It is very hard to get rid if those of ad boxes on web pages without a touchpad. Your finger is not just a precision device.
I have one machine with a Touch Bar. The idea is very nice. The implementation is excellent. I hardly use it because I am mostly on my Air and IPad which has no such control..
I suspect there are specific usability an
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$2000 for an iPad with mouse and keyboard. $2000 for a MacBook Pro. $100 for an iPhone
Could you let me know where I can buy a $100 iPhone? At that price I might actually be willing to jump on the Apple bandwagon. 8^)
P.S. Yes I realize it was a typo and you meant $1000 (or did you). ;^)
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Check out the iPhone SE 2 (or iPhone SE 2020, not sure what the official name is supposed to be).
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You don't make sense. I did not have my iPad because my laptop lacked a touch screen ... lol.
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One of the things I like about Apple is they have kept the delimitation between touch devices and traditional computer devices pretty distinct.
If I have a laptop, I really don't need the screen to support touch, the mouse works well enough for me.
Over time maybe as the touch/mouse fusion improves on the iPad enough I might find it useful, but so far I rather like laptops the way they are.
I have two laptops with a touchscreen, and I agree with you 100 percent. And I seldom use the touchscreen, so I guess that's my vote. Keep them separate.
Re: No thank you (Score:2)
I have tablets and touch screen laptops. Sure the laptop isn't used as a touch input often. But it comes in handy.
Also I won't spend more than $200 on a tablet. They should be cheap portable computers.
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Yes.
I'm more of a smartphone/desktop guy alas I don't understand why anyone spending their own disposable income would spend several grand on buying both a laptop for laptop things and a separate tablet for tablet things.
Chrome OS tablets, maybe, where you can spend 80% of your time running Firefox in a Linux desktop with Crostini and the other 20% with Android apps on the train home.
ARM macs, porting iPad apps to macos, adding a multi touch trackpad to the iPad Pro - these are signs of merging the 2 produc
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Laptops with a touch screen still have a track pad and support mice, and you can plug in any USB mouse you want.
Again someone stole your UID, usually you make not such dumb comments.
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This is something that will be impossible to determine if someone ever finds my password...
Shitcock! [penny-arcade.com]
iPhoning (Score:3)
I hope that manufacturers stop "iPhoning" products just because they want to cash in on a successful trend. There's a reason many of us stick to keyboards and mice, including traditional desktop and laptop environments. Tablets and smartphones are great for entertainment but not so good for anything else.
given the choice (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'll take the bait. What would you choose (given a wider selection of possible choices)?
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What would you choose?
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For a "desktop replacement" I would go for a laptop with AMD CPU. Luckily, I don't need one now - Covid made many of us work from home, so no need to carry beefy laptops around. We have our luxurious battle-station PCs at home, with good keyboards, multiple big screens, and oodles of processing power, right?
For "light and thin" laptop with ARM CPU, I have PineBook Pro. Costs $200 (no Microsoft tax on it), can play HD videos, battery lasts all day.
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So you either have no use case or you would purposely destroy your own productivity due to altruism?
If I wanted a touchscreen I would have bought one. (Score:2)
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I've had a Dell laptop with a touchscreen for years. I've used the screen as a touch interface exactly once, to try it. Touch works fine but when I have a keyboard and touchpad the touchscreen is pretty useless. Now for a tablet like the Surface or iPad a touchscreen makes more sense.
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If I wanted a touchscreen I'd just get an iPad.
But then you get no keyboard or applications.
Marketing Fail (Score:5, Insightful)
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Microsoft's marketing department is almost as bad as Intel's.
Intel's marketing department is why they are still around.
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Intel's marketing department is why they are still around.
I'd say AMD's supply problem is why Intel is still around. AMD has never been able to produce enough parts to satisfy OEMs outside of the console market. So we get a handful of AMD-based machines, and tons of Intel ones. Now that Intel is also having supply problems, though, maybe this is less of a factor.
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Neither of them make particularly great machines. Positioning themselves as the alternative, the smart choice, is all they have.
Well, some Surface machines were not bad I suppose, but not the best.
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John Hodgman & Justin Long might have something to say about that...
Re:Marketing Fail (Score:5, Insightful)
You know how the saying goes. When you have nothing good to say about your own products, say something bad about your competitors.
The why bring back the "I'm a PC" guy? (Score:2)
Microsoft's marketing department is almost as bad as Intel's. Focus on your own products, and use what ever time you're lucky to have in front of people's eyeballs to tout your own accomplishments, not the failings of others.
Mmmmm. Apple could also take a lesson here - having put out the 'PC Guy' commercials a decade ago, and teasing at the possibility [techcrunch.com] of bringing him back.
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Microsoft's marketing department is almost as bad as Intel's.
I'm not sure if you only see MS adverts (that's a positive for them really), but this type of advert is par for the course in the entire industry. Between the Google guy, this here, Samsung's adverts with kids plugging in headphones, Apple's PC guy or their cringeworthy "what's a computer?" advert, Lenovo making a joke of Apple fanbois, it's almost like an industry rule that some company need to shit on another's at all times and gaps in this won't be tolerated. And they are all in on it.
MS beat Apple to the converged tablet years ago (Score:2)
There are two times to transform the market with a converged laptop/tablet:
The first time when it was practically possible. Apple didn't even try. Microsoft brought out the Surface, and siphoned off creative users. Apple is still not hurting, but they lost a lot of influencers.
We're now at the second point, and Apple has the ability to do it right. With their improved ARM processors, a converged tablet/laptop can now be done without such large compromises. The time to strike is now--or at least a few m
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In all honesty, with the latest iPad Pros having a keyboard case with a built in track pad, and the Macbooks now using a similar processor to the iPads, the convergence is nearly a foregone conclusion.
The negative strike is with Apple's constant track towards content consumption rather than content creation. If they skew the convergence towards the common user and shrug off the creative types that had, up until a few years back, held Apple up as the gold standard, it would be a massive disappointment. Not
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Microsoft beat everyone to the smartphone, but they created a product that very people actually wanted to use.
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How about a converged automobile/motorcycle?
The Aptera, Nobe, or Arcimoto?
All supposedly on their way.
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The Spyder exists [brp.com] and is pretty massively popular is some areas.
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Some people just suck at balance. Or have bad enough knees they can't handle stopping on a bike. My uncle's knees were shot from motorcross when he was in his early thirties, so he rode tricycle types for another few decades until he physically decline enough he couldn't ride at all anymore.
I'm glad the option exists, but I won't climb on one until I have to.
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Because carrying one device is far easier than carrying two?
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That too.
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Plenty of reasons. Ex: Laptop for actual work (say coding) when at a desk, and a tablet for casual consumption while traveling or sitting (bus, train, airplane, couch).
I personally have a convertible laptop with a touch screen, so I have the option for both in one device.
My wife splits her time between her iPad & laptop, as some things just don't work well enough on one or the other for her, but her laptop generally stays home.
Wait What? (Score:2)
Gotta say as much as I "hate" Microsoft, having been an OS/2 guy in a past life, Linux for half of the '90's, brief fling with Apple products in 2000-2005 and then Linux again, the Surface is a decent looking piece of hardware. I'd consider buying one if I could install Linux on it.
I've also overcome my hatred of Dell recently after realizing that they do actually build real machines and not just those "my first laptop" ones that your company issues you. You
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Apple fired back ... (Score:3)
"Nice one Microsoft. 'Cause we're such good sports, we're going to play your ad on our Zunes and Windows Phones ... ohhh, sorry."
Never been a fan of touchscreen laptops (Score:2)
And I'm an Apple user. However Microsoft is right to mock the Touchbar. It was a stupid idea from the get-go, the implementation of which was forced by Apple's previous anti-touchscreen marketing - remember Job's mocking the supposed "gorilla arm" requirement? So Apple couldn't put a touch screen on their laptops...
There's nothing the Touchbar could do that wouldn't have worked better on a touch screen.
Now, I'd argue there's not much that a touch screen is the right solution for either! But that's a differe
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The biggest problem is that Apple decided to replace the standard function keys with the touch bar. It's easy to imagine things would have been very different if the touch bar had been added on top (above, whatever) of the function keys.
I do remember reading something about Apple researching per-key-display keyboards, though. Now that would be interesting. Yes I know it already exists, but if Apple makes the hardware they also make the software so you're sure to have support from day one for it.
lol (Score:3)
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I mean that one is easily to counter, just time how long it takes to open Altium designer or Visual Studio, and include the time it takes for a user to open the browser and type "Does ${real_work_application} exist on an iToy Pro"
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What's a MacBook Air? Clearly not a computer because Apple wouldn't put themselves down would they?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Still the flaccid keyboard and clunky kickstand? (Score:2)
It pains me to say nice things about HP, but their X2 Chromebook Tablet/Laptop was some excellent engineering: all the portability of a true tablet with an excellent touchscreen, and a thin detachable keyboard w
Are they still fighting that war? (Score:2)
Some soldiers can't walk away, they just keep living it. Is it a form of brain damage?
The rest of us are done. We won't forget, but we don't want to hear about it.
You can't shame Apple for advancing for occasionally having a miss when trying to advance their product. Not when you:
- Can't swallow your pride and just provide command line grep
- Are still in the 90's with trackpad functionality
- Let IE languish from 2002 to 2005, letting your zombie competitor rise from the dead to tak
No love for Surface, but the ad is pretty funny. (Score:2)
I'm sure Apple could fire back on their own merits, but it's nice to see the I'm-a-mac, I'm-a-pc style ad is still poppin'.
Why not both? (Score:2)
Add a touch screen that unfolds to flat please (Score:2)
The touch bar was not so bad. I have one. I bought this Mac fully souped up so it would last 10 years. It may not have the greatest keyboard (oh I wish it had mechanical keys!) and I find the keycaps to rub off with disturbing frequency. And Chrome eats all the memory. I think they should improve the OS so that it will never seem to pause for 20 seconds sometimes, perhaps when I am opening Mail and have Chrome and other things all running, it shouldn't do that and require more cores and memory to handle cra
Re:Anyone notice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Has anyone noticed that slashdot has completely changed now that Biden is in power? Where are the covid we are all gonna die because of trump articles? Where are the articles about the impeachment? All of the sudden everything is back to normal again. Pretty odd because according to the numbers Covid is five times as bad as it ever was previously. But complete silence.
But what about his tweets?
I think the difference right now is that the US doesn't have a president who wants to call everyone a loser and Biden appears to be taking Covid seriously. The first lesson in life is if you are going to dish out dirt, then expect the same from others. I must admit I never realised how refreshing boring could be.
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Give the trolls time to retool, they are still scrambling after their cause fell through. They'll have fresh trolling soon enough, enjoy the relative civility in the meantime.
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Pretty odd because according to the numbers Covid is five times as bad as it ever was previously.
According to which numbers and previously to what?
If by previously you mean since January 20th (the day the presidency changed) then the numbers are nowhere near five times as bad.
From a quick search, the number of new cases on Jan. 20th was 156,235 and 7-day average was 194,966. The number of new cases on Jan. 25 was 155,677 with a 7-day average of 172,429. So from those numbers I would have to conclude that things are actually better under Biden than under Trump.
Re: Anyone notice? (Score:2)
It has not completely changed. There are still Trump trolls making off-topic political posts.
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Well, "man does his job properly" isn't a very compelling headline.
Compare that to "the president promised to release more vaccine, but there isn't any."
No, you're right. Conspiracy is the only explanation.
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Admittedly most applications make pretty poor use of it; but there are some like Safari and MS Office that do a pretty good job.
Nobody's denying that, but ... compared to a touch screen+pen? Not even in the same league.
It's a bit mean to compare the touch bar to a touch screen but the advert is spot on: Having a touch screen (+stylus/pen) is a huge improvement to a laptop.
(and one which you can't even begin to imagine until you try it)
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It's a bit mean to compare the touch bar to a touch screen but the advert is spot on: Having a touch screen (+stylus/pen) is a huge improvement to a laptop.
I really disagree, I do not think it is. Having a touch screen (+stylus/pen) on a tablet (or convertible, like the Surface) is very important, totally agree. Obviously you need some kind of input. But using a touchscreen laptop is an awful experience. Moving from keyboard to screen to tap the screen, which wobbles around because you're trying to move quickly so you can't delicately just baaaarely tap the screen, makes for a genuinely, truly, awful experience. Not to mention the fatigue you get in your
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You should probably consult with a doctor or a personal trainer if lifting your arms to touch a PC screen is causing you so much difficulty.
Even on a non-convertible, touch screen enabled monitor I am not using the touch screen constantly, but I use it just enough that I am pleased it is there, as many a time simply trying to find the mouse and move it over to a location to click takes longer than touchin
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Even on a non-convertible, touch screen enabled monitor I am not using the touch screen constantly, but I use it just enough that I am pleased it is there, as many a time simply trying to find the mouse and move it over to a location to click takes longer than touching the screen. Similarly, often I will pull the device a little closer to read something, and using a thumb to scroll up or down is far easier than relocating my hand to the the keyboard or touchpad.
The only thing touchscreen on a laptop does for me is increase the BoM and mean that when I try to point to something on the screen after forgetting its touch because I never use it, I randomly click a link.
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Sure Steve Jobs, whatever you say.
Yes, because wrists/palms tend to spend most of their in front of a computer time in front of the keyboard (or mouse).
I'm not aware anyone advocating to 'constantly' raise arms to touch a screen. Whole lot easier to reach over and tap the screen. Right now I want to click play on an element of a web browser. I could reach over and grab my mouse, moving it from one mo
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Moving from keyboard to screen to tap the screen, which wobbles around because you're trying to move quickly so you can't delicately just baaaarely tap the screen, makes for a genuinely, truly, awful experience.
You're talking about the iPad Pro and Surface? Why is that an 'awful' experience? Both devices seem to sit pretty solidly and the fact that you can just disconnect them from their keyboard/trackpad means you get both the tablet and laptop workflows.
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You're talking about the iPad Pro and Surface?
I'm talking about touch screen laptops in general. But the experience is bad for a few reasons. One, the screen "wobbles" when you touch it, it's super annoying. The second is that it is not ergonomic [deccanchronicle.com]. Our bodies aren't designed to hold our arms out in front of us. I'd much rather just use a trackpad, mouse or trackball. And finally, leaving fingerprints all over the screen. It's not difficult to wipe your phone off on your pants or shirt or whatever, it's a little more difficult to try to wipe your
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Moving from keyboard to screen to tap the screen, which wobbles around because you're trying to move quickly so you can't delicately just baaaarely tap the screen, makes for a genuinely, truly, awful experience.
Maybe you need a different laptop that isn't top-heavy. Or keep your other hand on the base.
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An Apple laptop screen does not wobble around when you touch it.
We're talking about touchscreen laptops, which do [windowscentral.com]. Apple doesn't make a touchscreen laptop and they won't.
And no one forces you to use the touch screen. You simply can keep using the trackpad, idiot.
Which is exactly why I don't want a laptop with a touch screen, because I won't use it. Do you normally intentionally pay for features that you have no desire to use? Why do you get so irrationally angry when I don't want to use a computer the way they do? If you want touchscreens, great, enjoy, I'm not stopping you.
About 90% of my computer interaction is via the keyboard so moving back and fort
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On a laptop? Seriously? You are out of your mind. The lower half I can touch without leaving the keyboard. And the upper half is not even 3 or 4 inches away.
If you think touching a screen is more efficient than a keyboard you're on the wrong website.
For me it is. And so it is for the millions doing it.
I've almost never seen anyone actually use the touch screen on a laptop outside of an ad. And we've already established that it's not good ergonomically. But if it works for you - great!
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I find it pretty useless since I have to look at the bar every time I think of it and see if it currently contains the feature that I am looking for at the moment.
If it's so good, why isn't it on ext. keyboards? (Score:3)
Admittedly most applications make pretty poor use of it; but there are some like Safari and MS Office that do a pretty good job. Giving my context specific useful function keys with icons that tell me what they are going to do without me needing to remember what F5 does on this particular screen in this particular app, they are stilled fixed position so the ones I use often are still muscle memory, but less often used ones are discoverable.
Apple never took the touchbar seriously. If they did, it would be available on their flagship mac pro (the $6,000 desktop). It wouldn't be a feature unique to a few MacBook Pros.
I figured they'd have an external keyboard with one on launch...that didn't happen. It's now been 4 years? It it was more than a silly novelty, they would have found a way to overcharge us to have one on an external keyboard. I always use external monitors with my macbook pros and would need it on an external keyboard to be
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iPad is just a big smartphone.
Surface Pro vs. Macbook? I'd totally go with Surface Pro. Much more portable, touch screen, no need to carry a mouse around with you...
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Surface Pro vs. Macbook? I'd totally go with Surface Pro. Much more portable, touch screen, no need to carry a mouse around with you...
Why would you need to carry a mouse with a Macbook but not a Surface? The trackpad on the Mac is vastly superior. And I say this as someone who doesn't use macOS or own any Apple computers and is posting this from Fedora. It's just the reality, Apple has amazing trackpads.
Are you suggesting that you'd use the touch screen in lieu of a mouse? Because, from experience, trying to use a touchscreen laptop is horrible.
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Dunno if you've noticed, PC makers sell touch screen enabled laptops in big enough numbers that people are buying them, even when non touch options exist... so perhaps your experience is not as prevalent as you think.
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CostOf(Buying a laptop WITH a touch screen) > CostOf(Buying a laptop WITHOUT a touch screen)
Three individuals in my house, with four laptops (3 personal and 1 work), all have touch enabled by choice because we all use it from time to time. Ex: my son tells me Roblox is easier to play with touch than keyboard and trackpad, for him at least. Granted he also prefers to play it on his iPad rather than on an Xbox on a full size tv.
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How were they using it? A touch screen with fingers is a completely different experience to a touchscreen with a pen.
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Why would you need to carry a mouse with a Macbook but not a Surface?
Because... touchscreen!
I run Windows 10 on my old Toughbook CF19 using a stylus and never need a mouse.
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It's a pain in the Advanced Sub Station Alpha?